How the hell are you supposed to grow?

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

I started with a fresh company from 0 and I'm trying to grow, but it seems impossible. I've hired all the best talent that's not already taken, but the problem is they're gaining popularity ten times faster than my promotion is, so I keep losing all my main eventers, and I can barely gain 1.6% popularity per show, and that's using my best people. Losing those best people, my shows drop from Great to Decent or Average, which results in no change or a loss respectively.

 

My champions keep deserting my promotion because they gain ten times faster. How the hell are you supposed to make gains as a fresh promotion? Or is it just plain impossible? I've tried everything. When I use people that get me gains, they gain too much popularity and leave my promotion. Just as an example, my Welterweight Champion was in four matches and went from Unknown to Mid Level National while my promotion over the course of the year went from 0.0% to 8.0%. That's using the best talents available that aren't already taken at the start of the game.

 

I can't make any money, I can barely gain popularity, and the good members of my roster are already dumping me after I create them. I don't have people fit to replace these guys as quickly as need be. This is beyond frustrating. Something needs to be done with popularity gains, because the fighters shouldn't be gaining ten times the popularity of the promotion. The problem was the exact opposite in WMMA2 (where the promotion gained too much more popularity compared to the fighters), and it's been overcompensated in the other direction now.

 

How do I stop my fighters from gaining popularity for the 100 or so shows it'll take me to reach National? The game went from too easy to too hard. It's making me wanna pull my hair out.

[Eyeball]

This is very weird, I've had absolutely no problems whatsoever growing my company from 0 to low level national. Did that in about 3.5 years using 3 weight classes with about 30 fighters in each. I have no problem making at least decent main events with my roster and only scavenge fighters off GAMMA when they're promising unknowns or fallen stars who weren't going to get re-signed anyway.

 

I started with a promotion skill of 8 though and upped it to 9. Did you get a very low one from the get-go? I also started in Nevada, America, which has high MMA popularity and several local TV stations to sign on to.

 

If you aren't already, I suggest using the TV shows. They're both an easy source of company popularity and great for building up unknown fighters. Put a 0-0 fighter in even the crappiest TV show and have him win a 4-man tournament - he will skyrocket at least 50 points in popularity.

 

As far as champs deserting you, try using them very seldomly and grow your company popularity using other fighters in between championship fights. I sign all my guys for 5 matches (4 guaranteed) and 50 months. That's not a lot of fights in that period of time.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

I use Jennifer Avatar. 6 in negotiating and eye for talent, 4 in match making and promotion.

 

I tried doing only three weight classes and using the bottom tier fighters, but could not even get Average commercial or critical success. My current roster has six weight classes with about 20 fighters each, all the best talents that are available at the start of the game. Highest reputation and performance fighters there were (since they're the only ones capable of getting high commercial success). Even when I put fighters with 50% performance each in a match together, I frequently only get Average or Decent match ratings from them. On my last card, I put my top most popular and highest reputation fighters on, and got a Decent critical rating and Great commercial rating, and that's the best card I've put on with the fighters you can get from the start of the game, and it only gained me 1.6% popularity. Meanwhile, Datuk Ong Ka Ting (who main evented the event) will no longer sign with me because he's hit Mid Level National. When I don't use my top stars, I can't even get Great commercial rating, which means no gains at all.

 

I'm not sure how I'd be abel to do better lumping all my points in promotion. Without high negotiating, it'll be hard to get the good deals to begin with, and without the eye for talent, I'd have to turn off the fog of war to see what they can do. My eyes are already strained from looking at hundreds of stats each month, it makes my head spin having to look at so many people, scouting around for people who have good stats, for all six of my divisions.

[Eyeball]

<p>Eye for Talent is a useless skill. I have 2 in it and never miss out on anything - fighter bios and fight results make it useless.</p><p> </p><p>

Negotiation isn't worthwhile either. The WMMA economic engine is rudimentary at best and unbalanced. In the beginning, you bleed money no matter what contracts you sign. Later on, you have so much you can afford to hire Sukarno to shine your shoes.</p><p> </p><p>

But most of all, it sounds like you need to work on your personal main-event matchmaking skills. Unlike WMMA2, you can't put on extremely boring main events between superstars and still expect Great and Fantastic show ratings - your main and co-main events have to be exciting fights too. it makes the difference between an average and a great show.</p><p> </p><p>

See the recent "exciting fights" thread for tips on how to make your main events non-boring. And try messing around with the Hype function too. Just be careful - hyping the wrong fight will hurt your overall card rating quite badly.</p>

[Benrollo]

<p>You're <strong>only</strong> gaining 1.6% popularity per show? How many shows do you think it should take a company who starts with absolutely nothing to get to a national level, 3? 4? </p><p> </p><p>

You're using the best talent available. Of course they're gonna skyrocket in popularity faster the the promotion itself. They're the best talent. </p><p> </p><p>

And as far as losing money goes, once again, you're using the best talent. Therefore they will be more pricey.</p><p> </p><p>

Do you think about things before you post them in a blind rage?</p>

[Scottie]

It shouldn't be surprising your best fighters are leaving. You are a low level regional promotion.

[Paatero]

<p>I am not very experienced in starting from scratch, but I do like to play XCC and FLB from low level regional upwards. I tend to run shows once every two months to be able to use my fighters, and what I look for is 6-7 fights, most of which are "worthy main events". Do not use prelims until you're national size. At the beginning you will lose money no matter what, but you should be able to see whether or not you'll start gaining money - usually this happens at mid level regional (happened for me with FLB, thought the Brazilian fighters have rather cheap contracts) or high level regional, even without TV or PPV deals.</p><p> </p><p>

I haven't had troubles with my fighters gaining popularity too fast, it's the other way around for me - I have my GAMMA at low level international and I only have a handful of viable main eventers - I would suggest trying to switch up your line up in events - only use the same stars two, three times a year and try to keep all of your guys active. This way your company should grow at all events, and your biggest stars' popularity only every three or four events.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, about the hype function. Fights that usually end up good are submission specialist with bad striking vs brawler with bad submission defense, as the brawler drops the submission guy and goes and gets caught in a sub. Another kind is two big-time brawlers with good power and not too good defense or technique. Feint and feeling out-fests aren't exciting, swinging is.</p>

[Derek B]

Having been playing a game from 0 popularity, I started with 1 million in the bank to give myself a bit of a cushion. Had an 8 in negotiating and a 4 in everything else. Running 1 show per month, with a small loss per month for a while.

 

The first thing to realise is that at low level, everyone with any popularity in your home region is a main eventer capable of giving you decent commercial success. Those guys are going to be cheap, especially if you do the smart thing and use standard or associate contracts, on which you can usually pay a few levels less compared to exclusive types, saving you a LOT of money in the long run. Don't forget to lower all kinds of bonuses when you are signing deals too... with my negotiation skills set high I've been able to get pretty much everyone to agree to a $100 signing bonus, saving me huge amounts of cash to start with.

 

The next thing to do is book smartly. WMMA3 is set up so that an average show will leave you where you are so you need to put on strong shows to go up. I had a few early shows where I gained next to nothing because all I was doing was reaching the bare minimum for a show. 1 worthy main event, 1 good semi-main, a bunch of undercard matches. Following the WMMA2 model that probably woulda been enough but in WMMA3, it's only enough to stand still. You need to do more to move up... at low level it's pretty easy to put on a couple of matches of main event popularity, giving you a big boost to your commercial rating which boosts up your popularity. Some exciting undercard fights can bolster any critical success too... highest I've gained on a show is a full 5.0 popularity. I've not yet played at high levels, but PPV/events will only be able to get you so far... which is where TV plays in, in getting you to the very highest levels.

 

Thirdly, fighters. You don't need to have the best and you don't need to worry about competitive credibility for a long time before you get to National. So don't worry about signing the big names or the higest statted guys... they'll cost you money and the better someone is, the more likely they are to become your main eventers. The problem there is that once you get a boring guy locked into the main event spot, you risk hurting your promotion by putting on poor main events, lowering your gains in critical success. At low level, you should just worry about getting noticed... take a note from indy pro wrestling, putting on the MMA equivalent of a exciting spotfests.

 

Once you hit High Regional, that's when you should start to worry about signing really big names. Your own champions will grow naturally with you (in my case, doing nicely with 1 fight every 6 months across 6 divisions AKA 2 title defenses per division per year), although if someone is truly dominant there is a good chance they'll end up becoming too popular and heading off to more lucrative financial gains elsewhere. As a small promotion, it's just like anywhere else... the cream rises to the top, and until you also get to the top, you'll always have to play catch up. At low level regional you can sign guys at low level national (perhaps higher, I'm not sure)... that's a HUGE disparity that works in your favour, giving you the chance to put on matches that will give you a large pop to your commercial success whenever you use them.

 

Fight/career management is important too... if you give guys a lot of fights very quickly then you'll have a limited number of guys of value as they quickly beat everyone. You should always have a core of guys who can float to the top of each weightclass as requried, but in order to build them up after a defeat you need someone they can beat too. You need to cycle your undercard a lot... firing guys who lose a lot so they can rebuild themselves on indy shows. A constant cycle of guys coming off win streaks on indy shows will ensure you have lots of guys with wins/on winning streaks on shows, again boosting yout commercial success.

 

And in the long haul, too many fights for a fighter will grind down on them, wearing them down physically and leading to them retiring younger. It's unlikely many people will notice it since most games don't go that long, but pushing fighters into a LOT of fights in a short period of time (4 per year is quite high) will lead to your top prospects eventually becoming cripples in the long run. Not good once you are a major promotion who relies on them to make for bankable events.

 

In short... there are lots of ways to achieve success in this game and that's coming from someone who has only been playing for a little while. I wasn't on the dev team for this one, but the basic strategies are simple. You just need to work on them and realise that if you don't have a gameplan that things can and will go wrong. I've got a little MS Word file that I use to ensure I cycle through fighters and champions regularly. It's basically just the name of the fighter and their weightclass "Derek B (LW)" listed under the month they last fought. Each month I add another month to the bottom and C+P all the names for that month under it. Ensures I never miss anyone out and keeps me from putting guys in too many fights.

 

And as a good guideline... I put on enough matches to use about 1/6th of my roster per show. For me, that's about the average size of 1 of my divisions, which started at about 12 people and is now up to about 15-18 per division. It works quite nicely for me and I've had consistent growth on a regular basis for a while now, with many of my fighters being popular enough to give me many matches rated as main or co-main event on every show... which leads again to good/great commercial success every time.

 

And lastly, DGL. Remember what you've been told about phrasing, thinking and re-writing before you post. It makes for a better community for everyone and leads to better results too.

[1234]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="derek_b" data-cite="derek_b" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> And in the long haul, too many fights for a fighter will grind down on them, wearing them down physically and leading to them retiring younger. It's unlikely many people will notice it since most games don't go that long, but pushing fighters into a LOT of fights in a short period of time (4 per year is quite high) will lead to your top prospects eventually becoming cripples in the long run. Not good once you are a major promotion who relies on them to make for bankable events.</p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Are you sure? I have had Valentin Taneyev fight 19 times in 4 years and his Physical is still at 100%. Or can he take it since he is young?</p>

[LoNdOn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="1234" data-cite="1234" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you sure? I have had Valentin Taneyev fight 19 times in 4 years and his Physical is still at 100%. Or can he take it since he is young?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Out of interest, what is his record as it stands?</p>

[1234]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoNdOn" data-cite="LoNdOn" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Out of interest, what is his record as it stands?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> 23-1 Overall</p><p> 18-1 Ingame</p><p> SIGMA Light-Heavyweight Champion</p><p> #1 Pound For Pound</p><p> Holds wins over: Toby Sorkin (Sorkins first loss), Marlon John, Tadamasa Yamada & Spencer Rubenstein.</p>

[LoNdOn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="1234" data-cite="1234" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>23-1 Overall<p> 18-1 Ingame</p><p> SIGMA Light-Heavyweight Champion</p><p> #1 Pound For Pound</p><p> Holds wins over: Toby Sorkin (Sorkins first loss), Marlon John, Tadamasa Yamada & Spencer Rubenstein.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's brilliant. He tends to either be awesome or come unstuck and fall apart for me.</p>

[Eyeball]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Benrollo" data-cite="Benrollo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> And as far as losing money goes, once again, you're using the best talent. Therefore they will be more pricey.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not really. Even people like Bill Brown and Jiroemon Hasegawa start out being dirt cheap and continue to be so for quite some time until they become really famous. Price is linked to name recognition, not actual fighting skills.</p>

[Derek B]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="1234" data-cite="1234" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you sure? I have had Valentin Taneyev fight 19 times in 4 years and his Physical is still at 100%. Or can he take it since he is young?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not 100% to be honest, I've not looked through stats in detail like I would've normally. I'm too lazy to look at the database and back to my game to compare. I'd be pretty surprised to see physical condition revert back to old TEW system of damage only happening over injuries though... but it might be.</p><p> </p><p> Even If I'm wrong then at the very least you can infer that more fights = more chances to get injured, through fights and camps. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"></p>

[Benrollo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eyeball" data-cite="Eyeball" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not really. Even people like Bill Brown and Jiroemon Hasegawa start out being dirt cheap and continue to be so for quite some time until they become really famous. Price is linked to name recognition, not actual fighting skills.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Immediately, yes. But the very best fighters will get more name recognition faster, therefore will be more expensive in everything except the very short run.</p>

[Eyeball]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Benrollo" data-cite="Benrollo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Immediately, yes. But the very best fighters will get more name recognition faster, therefore will be more expensive in everything except the very short run.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hence the advantage of signing them to very long contracts. Nothing like having a low level national fighter still fight for the chump change you signed him for five fights ago.</p>

[greywolf00]

I started with UCFF in Jan 2000. I'm now at the end of 2001 and currently have taken the company from nothing to 36.6% Mid Level Regional. I also have the top 6 commercial rated shows in the history of the game, started in 1998.

 

The way I went about this is signing a bunch of fodder and a handful of guys, 5 or 6 in the Heavy & Lightheavy weight divisions and 10 -12 in Middle weight, who would be middle of the road - above avg in the big promotions. Fed them fodder to build them up to 100% Aura. From that point I looked through fight history to determine the fighters who regularly put on Good or better fights. These guys are used as my Main / Co-main eventers against fodder on winning streaks. Since they have 100% aura there's no longer a need to hype the fighter so I hype the fight. I avoid wrestler v wrestler like the plague, usually doesn't produce exciting fights.

 

I've only lost a couple of stars to bigger companies and they can generally be replaced by a decent unemployed fighter that a big company used as fodder.

 

Once fodder gets below 10% Reputation I let them go. Once every couple months I look for fighter to hire on winning streaks who I can bring in to feed to my stars. I find this to be super easy for my middle weight division but a lot harder in the upper 2 weight classes, will probably start hiring people coming off a win soon. Have also started putting stars against each other who have suffered a loss during their careers, trying to save the undefeated fighters for PPV if possible.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Hyping fighters or fights ALWAYS backfires on me so I never use the feature. I had a match between two people with over 50% reputation AND performance (highest I could hire in the game world) and when I put even Medium hype on it, the rating dropped to Abysmal. So no, I don't hype anymore. My best potential match and several other matches that were good without hype got bombed by trying it, so no way am I trying it again.

[Rathen4]

Hype is not a guaranteed thing. You need to know that their styles clash and that your rules are going to do all they can to provide an exciting match.

 

Giving up on it is why you are doing terribly. But then we all knew that from your incredible run of posting in the TEW sections.

[greywolf00]

I think the hype feature is a must. I've had a main event get an Awful and the Co-main a Very Poor rating and still pulled off a Fantastic Commercial Rating for the show from hitting on other fights. Also have had an Abysmal main event with the card getting a Great commercial rating.

 

If you have a powerful striker put him up against some fodder on a win streak with avg or below chin and strike elusiveness. Generally a great way to score a good fight. Submission specialist v no submission D works too provided he doesn't pose a threat elsewhere.

 

I've found that you have to be very careful about using wrestlers as your big fights. Wall and stall / decision grinds obviously don't make for exciting fights. Matching them against someone with good takedown defense and a good chin isn't going to help you any. Ground and pounders seem to work pretty well when they can control the other guy as do wrestlers with powerful strikes v weak chins / poor strike elude. I've had a lot of success using these wrestlers as main / co-main eventers: Logan Bluffer, Tuck Durdell, Gavin Marshall, Tony Legg, and Zsolt Hargitay.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Match ratings don't affect your commercial rating from what I understand, they affect your critical rating. The latter is what I'm having trouble with.

 

I'm playing as WEFF now, but hype still bombs every single time without fail. It's just not worth it. My last card dropped to Average critical rating because my main event got an Abysmal rating, making it so I didn't gain any popularity (both critical and commercial have to be Decent or higher to gain popularity from my experimentation over several games now).

 

I've tried hype over a dozen times now at various levels, primarily using it on people that have really high Performance stats, and it's NEVER ONCE worked. Not even once. I don't think it's worth it. I've run a ton of cards trying to use hype and it simply never works no matter who I put against each other. Most recent failure was Natalie Rogers vs. Michelle Addams (Kung Fu vs. Muay Thai), who had over 50% Performance each at the time. They don't anymore thanks to their Abysmal match, which dropped then both down to about 40%. Hype always backfires on me. Every time.

[Sons of Kohral]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DreamGoddessLindsey" data-cite="DreamGoddessLindsey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Match ratings don't affect your commercial rating from what I understand, they affect your critical rating. The latter is what I'm having trouble with.<p> </p><p> I'm playing as WEFF now, but hype still bombs every single time without fail. It's just not worth it. My last card dropped to Average critical rating because my main event got an Abysmal rating, making it so I didn't gain any popularity (both critical and commercial have to be Decent or higher to gain popularity from my experimentation over several games now).</p><p> </p><p> I've tried hype over a dozen times now at various levels, primarily using it on people that have really high Performance stats, and it's NEVER ONCE worked. Not even once. I don't think it's worth it. I've run a ton of cards trying to use hype and it simply never works no matter who I put against each other. Most recent failure was Natalie Rogers vs. Michelle Addams (Kung Fu vs. Muay Thai), who had over 50% Performance each at the time. They don't anymore thanks to their Abysmal match, which dropped then both down to about 40%. Hype always backfires on me. Every time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Sorry?</p><p> </p><p> Then don't use it. I tend to only hype single fighters to try and get that sweet sweet pop bonus.</p>

[Paatero]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DreamGoddessLindsey" data-cite="DreamGoddessLindsey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="30053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><strong>Match ratings don't affect your commercial rating from what I understand, they affect your critical rating. </strong>The latter is what I'm having trouble with.<p> </p><p> I'm playing as WEFF now, but hype still bombs every single time without fail. It's just not worth it. My last card dropped to Average critical rating because my main event got an Abysmal rating, making it so I didn't gain any popularity (both critical and commercial have to be Decent or higher to gain popularity from my experimentation over several games now).</p><p> </p><p> I've tried hype over a dozen times now at various levels, primarily using it on people that have really high Performance stats, and it's NEVER ONCE worked. Not even once. I don't think it's worth it. I've run a ton of cards trying to use hype and it simply never works no matter who I put against each other. Most recent failure was Natalie Rogers vs. Michelle Addams (Kung Fu vs. Muay Thai), who had over 50% Performance each at the time. They don't anymore thanks to their Abysmal match, which dropped then both down to about 40%. Hype always backfires on me. Every time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The first part is correct. And hype seems to backfire on me several times, too, but there are certain fights that will do well (at least good or great, which already justifies the hype feature), and an example in the men's divisions would be pretty much anything with Jericho Stewart, Jerry Bogdonovich or Khru Duangjan - all out knock out artists, put up against guys that are rather easy to knock out - they can also have good ground skills, because an easy takedown -> pass -> finish gives good ratings. </p><p> </p><p> And hype can easily be used to increase a fighter's popularity that you want to build, that's what I use it for mostly.</p>

[Derek B]

From what I've seen this time around, female fighters are mostly unexciting, relatively untalented nodbodies. At least compared to the men. 40-50 in performance isn't very high to start with and the fighters generally seem to lack the KO power or creative abilities to really be able to wow a crowd... it's definitely harder to get a higher critical rating with female fighters than it is with male fighters, of which there are more AND better.

 

Gambling by it's very nature is hit and miss. I've had some awesome luck with guys like Jerry Bogdonovich, Jon Silvers and Atep of Indonesia... and some other guys have just gone out with exciting reps and ground out horrible fights. Much like the fighters, when you gamble you win some and you lose some. And with the women, it's definitely harder. WEFF never seem to put on an exciting fight in my games, and actual finishes are limited to maybe 2 per 6 fight card. Got to the point I stopped watching anything on their shows cos I knew it was gonna be lame.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

I'm getting a decent number of actual finishes in my game, but probably only because I changed the match times and rounds to UFC's, and made everything legal and gave a 10-count before a knockout. Because of the rule changes, a number of the women are curb stomping others in the first minute of the first round. Unfortunately, I still get more decision finishes than I'd like.

 

I'm considering camping my times up to one 60-minute round in order to force fights to a finish. Of course that might kill my fighters, heh. It kinda sucks that this is probably realistic, too, since women's MMA doesn't get any attention in reality. Sucks. I prefer seeing women fight.

 

I have a feeling the two females I created to debut in mid-1999 are going to dominate the whole promotion because they have stats in the 70s and 80s to start with and 90s in their marketability and excitement stats.