Blackman Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I gotta know: In your fights, is it also true that 100% of the matches where the dreaded 'motivation issues' or 'personal issues' or 'disrupted camp' comes up, are a lost cause every single time, even if the fighter in question is way better then the other? In WMMA2, I've seen Morrison get it once and win against some mediocre challenger (since there was no one better). However, it took him all the effort in the world. Seriously, it seems like a fighter who got the note turns into a disease-infested zombie-version of himself. Sometimes they just don't do anything: not a single punch, sprawl, nothing. Or perhaps it's just me, but i've simmed many, many fights already (srly, not thàt many) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimura Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 you summed it up perfectly.. every time i see 1 of those i just think "oh crap my plans for that fighter are ruined..." i think i have seen it once in WMMA 3 where a fighter had that and won, via a freak KO punch where they swung for the fences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 No, it isn't, there are no features in the game that "guarantee" anything, nor should there be. It reduces some of the victim's key stats by a percentage that can be as little as 5%, so merely increases the difficulty for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Jobs To Me Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've had a couple fighters eke out crappy decisions even through "motivation issues", but it is rare to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 No, it isn't, there are no features in the game that "guarantee" anything, nor should there be. It reduces some of the victim's key stats by a percentage that can be as little as 5%, so merely increases the difficulty for them. I'm not complaining. It's just that it's odd that they lose every single time. Even fighters with 90 consistency can get the note, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've seen fighters win all the time with the note of doom come up. But probably the best note of doom fight, mark hominick vs jose aldo. Aldo had the note come up in a quick match and got dominated. Decide to do the fight again, lost but didn't get dominated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdale2k Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I have neever seen someone win with that coming up. Not a huge deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grits207 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've had a few fighters win despite getting one of those notes, but most of the time the fighter will lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWO4until01 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 These are effectively reasons/excuses for an ordinary performance, which should be revealed postmatch as they are mostly in real life, rather than before a match in a manner that tends to gift the fighter a loss more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I had a stud vs. can and the stud had a bad camp, but still KO'd the can, but yeah instead of a normal Great performance it was only decent, and he took a lot more hits then normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 These are effectively reasons/excuses for an ordinary performance, which should be revealed postmatch as they are mostly in real life, rather than before a match in a manner that tends to gift the fighter a loss more often than not. Well, yes! It'd be way more exciting for fights. Can you make this happen, Adam? Irl I've never heard any rumors of bad camps from before. It would not be smart to make such a thing public. Mostly they would say so after their bout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-619 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I had Wilson Franklyn get the note and still TKO his opponent in the first minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benrollo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I had Wilson Franklyn get the note and still TKO his opponent in the first minute. If it wasn't in the first 20 seconds then it was a very poor performance from Franklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm surprised this is a much talked about issue at all. If we're talking predictability, there's lots of other areas where I feel it is worse than the note of doom. Things like the magazine talkers (setting aside the pre-made trash talkers) having a lower tendency to win their matches to submission holds always being commented as not being "applied properly" when someone breaks it apart and finally to the initial fight commentators who often make the fight very boring by already telling you who is most likely to win and eating up valuable text space. The note of doom at least generates anticipation as you wonder whether someone can beat it or not as unlikely as it is. It also serves a fresh break as I anticipate whether it is a bad camp/motivation issues or sickness. Realistically it's not even that interesting of a reveal post-match in real life because most of the questions comes from a fighter's performance during the fight. In a game where even choke artists don't pull off Gabriel Gonzaga-like questionable strategies on a long consistent basis, post-match-up reveals are not only boring - they are unrealistic in the sense that there's no allocated interviewer and all we see is a website. Not to mention it is shown later on when fighters switch camps and any data before that is mostly just alerting an outcome that can't be changed unlike in real life where fighters are actually considering where and how each fight camp would change their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Of course you can't get a complete account of all the complexity of real life phenomena like in this case MMA. But you have a point. "magazine talkers (setting aside the pre-made trash talkers) having a lower tendency to win their matches" Really? Never even noticed that? I don't read the webside that much. "initial fight commentators who often make the fight very boring by already telling you who is most likely to win and eating up valuable text space" I always skipped this since WMMA2 cause I'm not interested in their opinion, definitely because it's sometimes spot-on and spoils the fun. In a game where even choke artists don't pull off Gabriel Gonzaga-like questionable strategies on a long consistent basis Care to elaborate on this? Do you mean like in the CroCop fight? It's indeed a rare thing. Haven't played that much WMMA3 to see something like it, but I think i've seen it happen a few times in WMMA2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calinks Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I once got that message for my champion fighter and as soon as the match started he hoped over the cage and landed a flying knee on a 97 year old woman's face. He got his fighting license banned and everything it was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 In a game where even choke artists don't pull off Gabriel Gonzaga-like questionable strategies on a long consistent basis Care to elaborate on this? Do you mean like in the CroCop fight? It's indeed a rare thing. Haven't played that much WMMA3 to see something like it, but I think i've seen it happen a few times in WMMA2? No, post-Randy. Gonzaga post-Randy had some of the weirdest issues going to the fight. The Werdum fight is in my opinion the weirdest way I've seen a top profile fighter gas out. Someone on Sherdog said it was due to problems with his passport I think. The common opinion though was that his camp was just not good enough or Gabe simply didn't have what it takes to be a top contender. (Mostly his heart was questioned) Then his loss to Shane Carwin was basically shifted into the Jiu-Jitsu fighter now wanting to be a pure stand-up striker and paying for it. The JDS fight didn't help him when it looked like he had weaker takedowns than the Crocop fight. Worse his strategy remains stand-up biased. Finally the Brendan Schaub leads to a possible retirement from him despite it being via a decision loss and a minor one at that compared to his other losses. This could be easily credited to Gonzaga's skill and heart but if he were a WMMA fighter, all those losses could easily be note of doom fights with the JDS fight being the least most likely among those losses to be attributed to a note of doom. Note that even choke artist doesn't align with his career as Gonzaga really stepped up his performance during the CroCop fight and even in the Carwin fight, you can't blame that on the choke artist scenario occuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yes. A fight against CroCop is obviously pretty big and choke-worthy I guess that you can change the gameplan-stat if you want to have someone use erratic strategies. Or am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praguepride Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just because you pull yourself together for one big fight doesn't mean you didnt' choke on a dozen other fighters, choke artist And on that note, just because someone has a heart of iron doesn't mean they can't occasionally have a bad day. Either way, sounds like a choke artist and/or very poor planning. My understanding is the note of doom comes around when they get sick or have a bad camp, not just because they choke in a match or do something stupid. If all of those examples you listed were preceed with things like "his mom was in the hospital" "he caught the flu yesterday" "he spent 1/2 his camp time in jail or on vacation" THEN I'd attribute it to the note of doom. Sounds instead like very poor planning if a jiu-jitsu expert is trying to go stand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just because you pull yourself together for one big fight doesn't mean you didnt' choke on a dozen other fighters, choke artist And on that note, just because someone has a heart of iron doesn't mean they can't occasionally have a bad day. Either way, sounds like a choke artist and/or very poor planning. My understanding is the note of doom comes around when they get sick or have a bad camp, not just because they choke in a match or do something stupid. If all of those examples you listed were preceed with things like "his mom was in the hospital" "he caught the flu yesterday" "he spent 1/2 his camp time in jail or on vacation" THEN I'd attribute it to the note of doom. Sounds instead like very poor planning if a jiu-jitsu expert is trying to go stand up. It depends. You have to consider the fact that choke artist in this game when set to on increases the note of doom. This includes getting sick often and having a bad camp. It's a little different with how choke artist the term is used in real life fights and I wasn't using Gonzaga as the only example but here's several things going against the "pulling one fight" issue. One: Gonzaga had a long win streak coming into the Crocop fight. That's a long history of not being a choke artist. Two: You don't outstrike and nearly KO Carwin and call that poor planning if you decide to re-stand-up with him. Also Carwin didn't have the King of KO title prior to the Gonzaga fight. Three: JDS is arguably top 2 best of the Heavies with a jiu-jitsu background. Only case of poor planning there is bull rushing and Gonzaga didn't do that. Four: The loss to Schaub wasn't stand-up related but grappling related. It's also not so much the loss but the desire to retire that makes it note of doom worthy. Of course the biggest issue here is whether your comments are directed to a discussion of Gonzaga or discussing the note of doom element in the game because I only brought up Gonzaga to highlight where the note of doom isn't as exciting or realistic post-match-up because the pbp isn't able to highlight examples of Gonzaga-like fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wehmer Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Gonzaga took down Shaub and dominated him on the ground in the last 20 seconds in the last two rounds. Had he decided to do this the entire fight, he would have won convincingly. Choosing to stand when you're much better off going to the ground is not choking, it's poor game planning. Gonzaga didn't choke, he merely started headhunting after his HK KO of Cro Cop, which caused his career to suffer as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 That's not the reason why it's a note of doom fight. Also my argument is based on a series of his fights, not on one or two result. The reason that fight is note of doom worthy is due to his reason for considering retirement after a loss like that. Not what he actually did in the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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