All for One, One for All

[ShamrockJones]

I downloaded this game on Monday night. I'm a longtime Extreme Warfare fan and somehow didn't know that Adam had created an MMA game. Over the years my love of pro wrestling faded greatly, and I've picked up the MMA bug in recent years. I downloaded the game, expecting to see all sorts of historical and faux-historical mods, yet they barely exist.

 

I really appreciate the MW mod, and I'll try the Dawn of MMA tonight, but I think it would be beneficial for us to all remember how much MORE we can get from this game with the proper mods. Take a look at this thread from the TEW forums:

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152810

 

You can literally start your game in almost any year of the modern era! We can have this too, if we all work together and share our work to create something greater.

 

I'm happy to do any researching and legwork for any mod-makers out there, preferably a great "Back to ______ year" type of scenario (that's the one I'm really hopin for. :-))

 

Lets make this game, and the mods associated with it, something truly special!

[captain_awesome]

The community for this game has really shrunk over the past few months. That and mod makers get all p*ssy about someone else "using their work" so it's basically impossible for multiple people to work making a mod better without officially being "hired" by the original mod maker. If I, for instance, could take the MW mod and work on updating the stuff about the mod that maybe I have expertise in, and release that it would help. But it can't happen because the creator of the MW mod would get angry and I'd get banned from the forums.

[chaz4594]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="captain_awesome" data-cite="captain_awesome" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31300" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The community for this game has really shrunk over the past few months. That and mod makers get all p*ssy about someone else "using their work" so it's basically impossible for multiple people to work making a mod better without officially being "hired" by the original mod maker. If I, for instance, could take the MW mod and work on updating the stuff about the mod that maybe I have expertise in, and release that it would help. But it can't happen because the creator of the MW mod would get angry and I'd get banned from the forums.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> As much as I appreciate the mods made like MW and TapOrSnap what you state is true. They don't let their work get used, really stopping the progress of any other real mods.</p>

[Tag01]

<p>Are you guys for real? I can't speak for the tap or snap crew, but I've never told anyone no that has asked to use my material. I've been asked by 5 or 6 people over the years if they could use my data and said yes, only for nothing to come from it. The only conflict I've had came with someone using my database (and tos), passing it off on his own. I've never had anyone banned, don't know anyone that has been banned, and any request by me to have someone banned would likely be entirely ignored.</p><p> </p><p>

The thing is, there is no point to take modern warriors, make a handful of cosmetic changes, and release it as a "new" mod. If you want to change something for your own use, feel free. But I'd rather not have ten different versions of the same mod out there. </p><p> </p><p>

That said, I've been looking for a year or so now for someone who would make a good historical mod using my data. There would be big demand for a ufc v. Pride mod, and I actually started a mod that begins with the zuffa takeover of the ufc but put that on hold due to getting married. I'd love to see that happen and would be willing to help someone take the lead on a project like that. </p><p> </p><p>

I guess what irritates me is that both of you have posted here suggesting I'm not opening to letting people use my data, when neither of you actually ASKED me to use it. Not only that, but I do want to see some historical mods in this game both to help support growth of adam's products and for the fact that I think it would be a lot of fun. Suggesting that I feel otherwise might keep others from even asking if they can use my data.</p>

[ShamrockJones]

<p>Thanks to all three of you for responding with an attitude of wanting to improve the current mod situation, and even people being upset is based in wanting something greater. So, like Tag suggested, lets create.</p><p> </p><p>

Tag -- Thank you a bunch for your willingness to let people work with your data set. I think you're right, a solid Pride vs. UFC (or many other) historical mods would be REALLY well received by what community there is here.</p><p> </p><p>

I'd love to get working on it, but as someone who has never made a mod at all I'm afraid I wouldn't be very good at leading a project like this. I'm happy to be a workhorse, and I'll start playing around at editing your database tonight if that's ok with you.</p><p> </p><p>

After looking at the actual creation of the fighters (wanted to add Kurt Angle to the Dawn of MMA) it looks like with the database you have created already it would be amazingly easy to simply change the debute date of almost all of the fighters with minor stat tweaking, and the majority of it is done. Is that the case, or am I being a rookie and overlooking something with the fighters that would mean major changes to each one? In other words, would it take major statistical overhauls to place many of the fighters at their "rookie" level stats or is it mostly date changes? </p><p> </p><p>

Also, once the debut date is properly set for each individual fighter and the statistics are possibly set for their early career(?), wouldn't it theoretically be amazingly easy to toy with the rest of the data to quickly create multiple mods starting in different years from the same data of fighters?</p>

[damonster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tag01" data-cite="Tag01" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31300" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you guys for real? I can't speak for the tap or snap crew, but I've never told anyone no that has asked to use my material. I've been asked by 5 or 6 people over the years if they could use my data and said yes, only for nothing to come from it. The only conflict I've had came with someone using my database (and tos), passing it off on his own. I've never had anyone banned, don't know anyone that has been banned, and any request by me to have someone banned would likely be entirely ignored.<p> </p><p> The thing is, there is no point to take modern warriors, make a handful of cosmetic changes, and release it as a "new" mod. If you want to change something for your own use, feel free. But I'd rather not have ten different versions of the same mod out there. </p><p> </p><p> That said, I've been looking for a year or so now for someone who would make a good historical mod using my data. There would be big demand for a ufc v. Pride mod, and I actually started a mod that begins with the zuffa takeover of the ufc but put that on hold due to getting married. I'd love to see that happen and would be willing to help someone take the lead on a project like that. </p><p> </p><p> I guess what irritates me is that both of you have posted here suggesting I'm not opening to letting people use my data, when neither of you actually ASKED me to use it. Not only that, but I do want to see some historical mods in this game both to help support growth of adam's products and for the fact that I think it would be a lot of fun. Suggesting that I feel otherwise might keep others from even asking if they can use my data.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I would do that but don't know think i would be good, however I think your mod should be expanded so that fighters who arn't real (make them retire) but would help make regens where their are bad spots. Ex. Flyweight or women fighters <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Tag01]

Thanks to all three of you for responding with an attitude of wanting to improve the current mod situation, and even people being upset is based in wanting something greater. So, like Tag suggested, lets created.

 

Tag -- Thank you a bunch for your willingness to let people work with your data set. I think you're right, a solid Pride vs. UFC (or many other) historical mods would be REALLY well received by what community there is here.

 

I'd love to get working on it, but as someone who has never made a mod at all I'm afraid I wouldn't be very good at leading a project like this. I'm happy to be a workhorse, and I'll start playing around at editing your database tonight if that's ok with you.

 

After looking at the actual creation of the fighters (wanted to add Kurt Angle to the Dawn of MMA) it looks like with the database you have created already it would be amazingly easy to simply change the debute date of almost all of the fighters with minor stat tweaking, and the majority of it is done. Is that the case, or am I being a rookie and overlooking something with the fighters that would mean major changes to each one? In other words, would it take major statistical overhauls to place many of the fighters at their "rookie" level stats or is it mostly date changes?

 

Also, once the debut date is properly set for each individual fighter and the statistics are possibly set for their early career(?), wouldn't it theoretically be amazingly easy to toy with the rest of the data to quickly create multiple mods starting in different years from the same data of fighters?

 

The debut date wouldn't be hard; the method Dawn of MMA uses (I think) is to set the debut date to one month before their first pro fight really happened. It will be time consuming though as I have not set any of the debut dates for the fighters in the mod, so you would have to go through all 2000+ to edit them.

 

Stats are a different deal and would probably be pretty time consuming, considering if you start at around UFC 30 you're looking at a long enough time that entire careers could start and end. Tito Ortiz was the baddest guy around back then, and he doesn't much resemble that now. For the sake of some realism I'd probably suggest having fighters be less talented across the board then and then steadily improve as they debut, showing the sports actual growth. This would be time consuming, and it would be best to have one person spearheading this to have the final say on stats. In my experience the most important thing statwise is that it is accurate relevant to other fighters: Giving a fighter a KO power of 90 is a much bigger deal when most fighters have chins around 50 instead of in the 80s. Having one person overseeing the stats is difficult but it makes the mod uniform.

 

While my mod is a good starting point, there are a ton of older fighters that aren't in it. Up until WMMA3 I would delete fighters instead of retire them to help keep the game moving. The hardest part of the mod would likely be piecing together a worldwide history of the sport from a decade ago when it was not reported on nearly to the level it is now. Sherdog's archives are helpful however.

 

Finding pictures isn't easy, either. I've got an older pic pack that can be used but to get some of these fighters pictures it will likely take getting screen captures from old UFC video. Getting the fighters right is the biggest part of modding; the rest of it is pretty simple. This will end up being a big project, but the positive thing about it is that a historical mod built off the back of Modern Warriors will provide for a mod that will be highly accurate and playable from the starting date until present. Also, since it's a historical mod there will be no need for any real updates so once it is done it will be playable and good to go until WMMA4, and even then the updates should be fairly minimal.

[onemanwolfpack]

<p>There actually was a Pride vs. UFC mod made for WMMA 2.</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86596" rel="external nofollow">http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86596</a></p><p> </p><p>

Also the As Real As It Gets 1993 Mod is still probably my favorite all time WMMA mod.</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121752" rel="external nofollow">http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121752</a></p><p> </p><p>

They just need to be updated a bit and they could also be used for a historical database.</p>

[ShamrockJones]

Tag -- Thanks a lot for answering those questions for me and for being so helpful. This is actually starting to feel pretty feasible. Time consuming, but feasible.

 

If Lucien was ok with it, I messaged him about using parts of his database as well and am waiting to hear back, once the stat overhaul was done with MW pack, if I were to simply attempt to import that pack into Lucien's Dawn mod, it would eliminate all the fighters he already had in there for an earlier era and at least cut off about 1000 of the fighters, right? Or am I oversimplyfying that part?

 

OneManWolfPack -- I have never had an earlier WMMA game. Is there any way for those databases to be converted to the newer game? If so, and if the original maker agreed, there would only be a couple of stat changes per fighter on the "creative" stats that are new and it would be a really easy process. Do you have any interest in helping out a little on this?

 

Damonster -- If we started working on this, would you be willing to make a list of start dates for the fighters on the MW database by looking through sherdog for each of them? Or even half of them? You could just send me a text file with their name and the date alphabetized of however many you did, and then I could easily imput them into the game.

 

If we, or whoever among us and others wanted to be involved, split it up it wouldn't be an extreme amount of work. I can do a lot of the statistical work, since that's probably going to be the most time consuming, then a couple of others maybe work on start dates and eras/companies/relationships/etc., we could produce a really epic mod faster than most of us realize.

 

I'm taking online classes, but working mostly as a tutor during the day and there is nobody here at the college to tutor, so I could put a solid amount of hours into this in the near future.

 

With the start that Tap and Lucien have, if Lucien is also willing to share information with us, we could have something EPIC here where any user could download the database, set the start date any time they want, and have an insanely deep historical sim. I'm up to put in plenty of work if there are some other fellas who might be as well.

[onemanwolfpack]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShamrockJones" data-cite="ShamrockJones" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31300" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Tag -- Thanks a lot for answering those questions for me and for being so helpful. This is actually starting to feel pretty feasible. Time consuming, but feasible.<p> </p><p> If Lucien was ok with it, I messaged him about using parts of his database as well and am waiting to hear back, once the stat overhaul was done with MW pack, if I were to simply attempt to import that pack into Lucien's Dawn mod, it would eliminate all the fighters he already had in there for an earlier era and at least cut off about 1000 of the fighters, right? Or am I oversimplyfying that part?</p><p> </p><p> OneManWolfPack -- I have never had an earlier WMMA game. Is there any way for those databases to be converted to the newer game? If so, and if the original maker agreed, there would only be a couple of stat changes per fighter on the "creative" stats that are new and it would be a really easy process. Do you have any interest in helping out a little on this?</p><p> </p><p> Damonster -- If we started working on this, would you be willing to make a list of start dates for the fighters on the MW database by looking through sherdog for each of them? Or even half of them? You could just send me a text file with their name and the date alphabetized of however many you did, and then I could easily imput them into the game.</p><p> </p><p> If we, or whoever among us and others wanted to be involved, split it up it wouldn't be an extreme amount of work. I can do a lot of the statistical work, since that's probably going to be the most time consuming, then a couple of others maybe work on start dates and eras/companies/relationships/etc., we could produce a really epic mod faster than most of us realize. </p><p> </p><p> I'm taking online classes, but working mostly as a tutor during the day and there is nobody here at the college to tutor, so I could put a solid amount of hours into this in the near future. </p><p> </p><p> With the start that Tap and Lucien have, if Lucien is also willing to share information with us, we could have something EPIC here where any user could download the database, set the start date any time they want, and have an insanely deep historical sim. I'm up to put in plenty of work if there are some other fellas who might be as well.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've been working with Tag on the Modern Warriors database for WMMA 3, I can help with anything you guys need but I'm not very good at working with the stats. So let me know if you want some more help.</p><p> </p><p> And yes, there's a converter built in to the game in the Editorial Suite.</p>

[ShamrockJones]

<p>Awesome. I sent out an email to the guy who did the 1993 mod you mentioned, and I already have a message out to Lucien. </p><p> </p><p>

If the 93 mod can be converted, could you maybe send me a converted to WMMA 3 version of that mod so I can take a look at it? I assume I can't do that myself without having WMMA2 already, or am I being a dumbass?</p><p> </p><p>

If the creator of that, or if Lucien is ok with us doing it for his UFC vs. Pride Mod, it would make life REALLY easy to just go tweak the stats that have been newly added for WMMA 3</p>

[onemanwolfpack]

<p>Andyemmy did the 93 mod, I believe it was a married couple who did it together. Unfortunately, they don't seem to come on anymore. </p><p> </p><p>

All you need to do is download the file and put it into your WMMA3 folder and then go to the Converter in the Editorial Suite.</p>

[ShamrockJones]

<p>Sweet, thanks bud. I'll do that when I get home and see what it's looking like. I emailed andyemmy on the email account associated with their profile, hopefully they get back to me.</p><p> </p><p>

Does Lucien get on the boards here often? Still haven't heard back from him.</p><p> </p><p>

Thanks for the answers and the help, man. I really appreciate you and Tap being so welcoming and helpful.</p>

[CoutureLegend]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShamrockJones" data-cite="ShamrockJones" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31300" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Does Lucien get on the boards here often? Still haven't heard back from him.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> His profile says he hasn't been active since December 15 so doesn't look like it.</p>

[ShamrockJones]

If a person is no longer active, and we give them full credit, is it ok to use some of their database here? Or does it become some sort of freeware like TEW 05 did?

[onemanwolfpack]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShamrockJones" data-cite="ShamrockJones" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31300" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If a person is no longer active, and we give them full credit, is it ok to use some of their database here? Or does it become some sort of freeware like TEW 05 did?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't think they would have a problem with it. Especially when they're not planning anything with it in the future.</p>

[captain_awesome]

<p>Hey Tag, I wasn't trying to suggest anything about you, I just used your mod name as an example, simple as that.</p><p> </p><p>

There was someone on here that used ToS I believe and updated it and put it out when nothing was coming from the Tos crew. He got in trouble and Adam made that sticky thread at the top of this very forum. That's what I was referring to.</p>

[Afroduck]

I started trying to update Lucians Pride Vs UFC.If I get farther along and nobody has posted anything I wouldn't mind posting what I got,as long as I get permission.

[RedsRule]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Afroduck" data-cite="Afroduck" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="31300" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I started trying to update Lucians Pride Vs UFC.If I get farther along and nobody has posted anything I wouldn't mind posting what I got,as long as I get permission.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Personally I would love it if you did that. You should be fine posting it.</p>

[ShamrockJones]

<p>afroduck, if that ends up being alright with lucien, I'd be happy to help out in any way you need. </p><p> </p><p>

How many fighters are in that mod?</p>

[paulwood]

I dig this Idea and would love to help. Let me know how I can be of assistance! Also, what kind of Mod are we making here? I have made some crazy fighters for the game I am playing now, but am wondering exactly what you would be interested in having people help with?

[Tag01]

<p>I don't know what the rules are on abandoned mods, I don't remember it ever coming up. Whatever is done with tew probably goes here.</p><p> </p><p>

Also as an fyi, there's not going to be a way to build a mod with varying start dates I don't think, given that even if you change the start date on the mod the fighters records and contracts don't change. The mod will have to have a certain starting point.</p>

[CoutureLegend]

Isn't the Pride vs. UFC mod created largely using the TOS data? If so, i'd say getting the permission from those guys would be enough seeing as the mod probably wouldn't have been created at all without the TOS data. (Although obviously if Lucien was still around or can be contacted in some way then it would be up to him as it is his mod)

[ShamrockJones]

<p>Awesome, thanks for the answers and help guys.</p><p> </p><p>

I'll give it a few more days to hear back from Lucien or the andyemmy people about wether they're ok with us using part of their database of older fighters to add to Tag's 01.</p><p> </p><p>

Till then, if it's still ok with you, Tag, I'll begin going in and changing the start dates of all the fighters to one month before their first fights. The next step, I hope, will be to get on board with one of those past mods, combine the data, and then adjust the MW stats to make sense with the other mod's stats for their fighters. After that, it will hopefully just be cleanup.</p><p> </p><p>

Tag, great point. I guess it would take quite a bit more work for each historical mod. At least once this major database of both old and new fighters is done, any mod maker that wanted to do a historical one in a different would just have to go through and deal with records and the sorts of things you mentioned.</p><p> </p><p>

With that in mind:</p><p> </p><p>

1) Any votes on what year this should begin in? I've done the Dawn of MMA for a bit, but I wasn't a big fan of the limited talent pool so I'd probably start it a couple of years in. Maybe '97 or '98?</p><p> </p><p>

2) If anybody wants to help, start with the names that start with Z on the MW2 data base and get the date of their first fight from Sherdog. Put it into a word document, and email it to me. Or, if multiple people still want to help, just pick a letter each(later in the alphabet, I'll start with "A" and go down), and work your way towards each other. It really doesn't matter how many anyone gets done. even 10-20 fighters from a couple of you with start dates would save me tons of work. No obligation if you aren't feeling it, but I saw a couple of people offer to help and this would be a great way.</p><p> </p><p>

Thanks for all the support in forms of answers, advice, and offers to help. We could end up having somethin pretty cool here.</p>

[NapDaddy]

How about an early 1997 mod where the regions are set up to reflect John McCain's campaign against UFC? Could provide a big challenge to the players.