Almagamation (DC/Marvel)

[raggy]

Updated the file on my site as well.

 

You can still use the same link (http://www.umkonline.tk/modules/PDdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=32) to access since it will display all available mods for CBH that I have uploaded

 

or you can use this link to access the new file directly:

http://www.umkonline.tk/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=32&lid=107

[djthefunkchris]

Awesome stuff. Attention to detail is fantastic. Kudos.

Thankyou very much, I appreciate it!

 

Updated the file on my site as well.

 

You can still use the same link (http://www.umkonline.tk/modules/PDdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=32) to access since it will display all available mods for CBH that I have uploaded

 

or you can use this link to access the new file directly:

http://www.umkonline.tk/modules/PDdownloads/singlefile.php?cid=32&lid=107

Updated first post with this.

 

Having a problem with things like "Mineral Minipulation" as a power...

My solution for things of this nature is bassically; Leave them in the database with "normal" powers, and perhaps kill them off for now (Permanant Death). Wait and see if in the future I can simulate them with newer versions of the game, keeping them there as a placeholder for now.

[djthefunkchris]

Update: Have put a good dent in Gotham, and by necessity Bludhaven as well. League of Assassins, Terrible Trio, Mud Pack, The False Face Society, and, the International Club of Villains.... Although there are not enough slots in the team section to do it correctly. Working on a "Work-A-Round" though. Too bad there isn't "Team" relationships, that would help I think.

 

Going to be quite a bit more characters by the time I get done... probably close if not past the Default Database (Infinity Verse) amount of characters, to include a good bunch of "Playable" characters for your games.

 

Next time I update progress, will probably be with an update to play as well... Right now though, there is no way you can survive in Gotham, as only very few heroes have been made so far, and the villainy there is treacherous. My test today had me (and Onyx) knocked out by three villains, that were up to no good. Liked the odds, and lasted alot longer then Onyx with Batman, but.... It didn't end well. Pretty sure it will when we get the "Batman" teams in (Oracle, the Police force, etc.)

[lemoneyes]

That's a good news. As a fan of DC, I'm looking forward to play with it.

 

I'm actually creating a DC mod and I'm really impressed by the speed of your progress. It took me a full week to populate my mod with about a hundred characters, and you in a few days you added two hundred!

[djthefunkchris]

That's a good news. As a fan of DC, I'm looking forward to play with it.

 

I'm actually creating a DC mod and I'm really impressed by the speed of your progress. It took me a full week to populate my mod with about a hundred characters, and you in a few days you added two hundred!

 

I bassically, have alot of my research done already.

[djthefunkchris]

Quick question.

 

Would their be interes to play in a more accurate world, with much lower stats for normal human abilities where you would start a new player with pretty much Godly Might?

 

For example: Superman would have something like 100-200 maximum strength. Leaving room for other's like Captain Universe, Cronus, Nightmare, Surtur, Terminus, Trigon, Doomsday, Mogo, Superman-Prime, Sentient beings, etc... to show their far superior Strength (and other) levels?

 

I know people would start out with abilities equal to Kryptonians, but there would be a bonus to role-playing or making your own generic (I would make generics for use for the mod that would make you more balanced, if desired) hero inside the editor, in comparable stats with the mod (which I would give you average ability levels so you could create it more believable).

 

Note: That it would only be unbalanced while you were low level, if you started off with anything other then roleplaying, as you would be very powerful in comparison to those levels.. but reaching Major, you would definately be needing more to get you to Iconic level.

 

I just feel that keeping Human levels around 300 average is alot more unbelievable when your going to have cosmic level entities that are very powerful in comparison to mythological gods. 50 point difference's, just doesn't show the level of power enough for me, when I'm looking at over a thousand characters that should be a little more unique in that one aspect.

 

I'm interested in other's thoughts on this... As I can just do it for me later (although I've already started, because I want to play in it).

 

I tested this theory, by depowering the default database (by 1/10th on abilities), and was able to play it (roleplaying as Big Chill) just like it was before, outside of the fact fights took alot less time (alot less Health to go through).

[djthefunkchris]

In all honesty, after play testing over and over, I'm not really happy with the data I've inputted. IT doesn't have that dynamic range I was looking for.

 

I'm sincerely thinking of scrapping it, and starting over with a new ability line up, having around 150 being top physical "normal" human strength and working from there. I know Pain is probably not going to be happy, as the current data is compatible with the default database.

 

To me, the way I have it, I'm just having too long drawn out fights, with it going into shoot-out mode several times before the fight is over, and this is with people like Batman and Catwoman.... I wouldn't mind if it was against more formidable people, but just having a shoot-out between three vs. three people seems to take forever, without anyone having outragious attributes (resists and such). THIS IS TRUE WITH THE DEFAULT DATABASE AS WELL... Captain Awesome's Punch shouldn't take more then one or two shots, to knock a "Normal" human toughness villain out.

 

Long drawn out fights are NOT FUN, unless it's an epic battle.

 

Having Superman have to "recuperate" after fights with common thugs as well, doesn't abode well with me... They shouldn't last long enough to drain someone on Hulk level, enough to feel as though they should have to recuperate to be successfull on their next outting.

 

I will continue the way I have if people think it's the better way to go, and do this only for myself, but if no one responds this time, I'm scrapping the current project and re-doing all the attributes and abilities to a more realistic number. YES, I for one do think that Superman or Hulk should be able to take out a common thug with one punch... and people like Batman and Spider-Man should be able to take them out without much trouble as well... not long drawn out fights, and even though Batman is able to avoid quite a bit, he still takes too much damage from common thugs (Scratch's men for example), when he should be able to take them out without much trouble. If I make him where he should be in comparison, and try to stay true to the default data, I end up putting him too close to Hulk level, and that's no good either.

 

The problem is, IF I make it totally realistic, then just about everyone would be able to be knocked out by regular type damage, within' two shots because of how the default damage is set up. Someone with a regular 1 physical impact is going to do 180 damage.

 

See, with maximum Hit Points being 5000, normal human could be less then 100 easily. But with Normal attacks being 180 and up, your looking at having to give a normal average human at least 250 to 300 HP, which means your looking at a toughness stat of at least 50 to 60 toughness, which I can live with I think... as long as most thugs only have regular 1 powers. A gun should effectively put a normal human out, which with the default database, it does not, as the average level toughness for a human is 100 to 200, meaning 500 to 1000 toughness, meaning a normal person takes at the very least three gunshots to take them out of the fight. Realistically, a normal person would be lucky to live (depending on the aim) from a normal gunshot...

 

This just makes more sense to me... A normal human should have around 30 to 50 toughness, or 150 to 250 hit points. I can't help but to think in Hit Points, because it's how my mind always worked when putting together old RPG Dungeoun and Dragon type games... Always looking to put the players through something they can survive AND reward them appropriately should they succeed, within the rules of the game.

 

So, with all that in mind, I look at Captain Awesome delivering an Awesome Punch, for 783 damage (base). With a human at 200 toughness, having 1000 hit points, it would take him TWO Awesome punch's to knock a Normal person out.... A top physical conditioned human would have around 3000 HP, and take a minimum of Four Awesome Punch's... Superman hitting Batman with his best Punch, should not take four punch's to knock him out... nor should it take The Hulk that many punches to knock out Captain America, nor should it take that much for Captain Awesome to knock out Captain Britain.

 

SO... If there is not a huge objection, bottum line is I'm scrapping this mod the way it is now, and starting over.

[jhd1]

In all honesty, after play testing over and over, I'm not really happy with the data I've inputted. IT doesn't have that dynamic range I was looking for.

 

I'll get it out of the way first by saying that although I've read some comics, I am by no means an expert. I don't know half of the information required to make a mod of this magnitude...but...

 

I think people creating 'real world' mods are, currently, trying too hard to get things perfect and going nowhere. In my opinion the best mod is going to be one that is fun to play and not necessarily perfect to comic book lore. In your case Chris, I think you're trying too hard to make the mechanics of the game do something that either they aren't meant to do or can do but not necessarily the way you want it to do (I'm referring to your plan for alternates etc.).

 

My suggestion - which I'm fully aware carries little weight - would be to select one location and create a mod for that. Don't worry about alternates for Bruce Wayne retiring and someone replacing him, nor the million and one Robins, or about trying to make a dynamic world. Just make a mod for Gotham City with Batman, Robin and Batgirl as playable characters, fifteen of the most well-known Batman villains and then make a couple of goon gangs. Look at the Dead City, USA mod. It only has a handful of characters and while I think it would probably have flowed slightly better in fewer areas, the mod works and it works pretty well.

 

Also I would base your characters on the InfinityVerse stats - we know it works and while having a regular human at 50 toughness may seem like a good idea to some, if you end up spending weeks on a mod only to find out it doesn't play you're even further back than before. There is little point making a mod where Superman has 200 strength if you start off with 250 when you create your own character. It won't make the game difficult, it just won't work. You can't change the damage done by a power, so you can't easily change the values.

 

Also - I know there's a sense of realism that you need, but why include God X who could end the universe with one wave of her hand but only appeared in three pages of a Batman comic in 1992. If an obscure character is too powerful, then you don't need to include him/her/it.

 

I'm sorry if this seems like a bit of a rant (it isn't meant to be) - I want a RW mod as much as anyone, but having gotten to know the game pretty well I see lots of discussions (and I am not referring simply to yourself) that seem to focus too heavily on things that the game isn't meant to do or at the end of the day have no real benefit on the game's playability.

[djthefunkchris]

I'll get it out of the way first by saying that although I've read some comics, I am by no means an expert. I don't know half of the information required to make a mod of this magnitude...but...

 

I think people creating 'real world' mods are, currently, trying too hard to get things perfect and going nowhere. In my opinion the best mod is going to be one that is fun to play and not necessarily perfect to comic book lore. In your case Chris, I think you're trying too hard to make the mechanics of the game do something that either they aren't meant to do or can do but not necessarily the way you want it to do (I'm referring to your plan for alternates etc.).

 

My suggestion - which I'm fully aware carries little weight - would be to select one location and create a mod for that. Don't worry about alternates for Bruce Wayne retiring and someone replacing him, nor the million and one Robins, or about trying to make a dynamic world. Just make a mod for Gotham City with Batman, Robin and Batgirl as playable characters, fifteen of the most well-known Batman villains and then make a couple of goon gangs. Look at the Dead City, USA mod. It only has a handful of characters and while I think it would probably have flowed slightly better in fewer areas, the mod works and it works pretty well.

 

Also I would base your characters on the InfinityVerse stats - we know it works and while having a regular human at 50 toughness may seem like a good idea to some, if you end up spending weeks on a mod only to find out it doesn't play you're even further back than before. There is little point making a mod where Superman has 200 strength if you start off with 250 when you create your own character. It won't make the game difficult, it just won't work. You can't change the damage done by a power, so you can't easily change the values.

 

Also - I know there's a sense of realism that you need, but why include God X who could end the universe with one wave of her hand but only appeared in three pages of a Batman comic in 1992. If an obscure character is too powerful, then you don't need to include him/her/it.

 

I'm sorry if this seems like a bit of a rant (it isn't meant to be) - I want a RW mod as much as anyone, but having gotten to know the game pretty well I see lots of discussions (and I am not referring simply to yourself) that seem to focus too heavily on things that the game isn't meant to do or at the end of the day have no real benefit on the game's playability.

 

I am happy you replied, and would have welcomed a rant at this point as well. It's obvious that's not what you were doing.

 

Realise, that if I do change up, it's only a matter of changing some abilities... all my work up till now, is not lost (just want to make that clear). I have around 300 people now, and I'm not looking to go backwards anymore then anyone else would want to.... so keep that in mind.

 

I play tested the default database as well. This is important to realise, because it's not as fun as it could be... I went another step and decreased alot of abilities in an imported mod of the default database, and it played out much more fun (and realistic)... with the fights not as drawn out, and the rewards feeling more reasonable.

 

On the bolded: Using Superman for an example, as you did, I'm thinking of making him have stats something like Strength of 500, Agility somewhere around the mid 300's. Now, I realise that is just "above" average for starting a new character, but it would be worth it for his attributes and power alone (which would stay relatively the same). IT might not be reasonable to start out with Batman who would be genuinely "average" in comparison with making a new character, but bassically what I'm doing is just "sliding" the stuff a little:

 

Default average human is around 100 to 200, with maximum human being 500 to 600... Maximum enhanced around 750, and super over 750.

 

My idea is average HERO/VILLAIN would be around 100 to 200, with maximum being around 500 to 600... Maximum hero/villain enhanced to 750, and Cosmic Level over 750.

[jhd1]

I am happy you replied, and would have welcomed a rant at this point as well. It's obvious that's not what you were doing.

 

Thanks for mentioning that, I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say.

 

My idea is average HERO/VILLAIN would be around 100 to 200, with maximum being around 500 to 600... Maximum hero/villain enhanced to 750, and Cosmic Level over 750.

 

I completely understand how this would make sense if you could control everything, but unfortunately we can't. For example, Batman will be penalised for low strength. Is that right, especially against other humans? The same thing with powers - I assume you are referring to strength in this example, but if the same applies to toughness or health points, then even the weakest regular attack is going to defeat a weak opponent. And while you can give all the average heroes and villains Regular 1 attacks you are then removing the option of upgrading, because doing so means that all attacks are one-hit KOs. Similarly, a number of the attributes will become 'iffy'. The attributes that allow you past 750 in a category, for example, are now pointless. Anything that gives you an extra roll is, in effect, largely moot because attacks are so deadly that it is conceivable you could go through a number of fights without even having an attack turn.

 

In my opinion, if certain characters cause huge problems, then leave them out, especially if it is not a particularly well known character. Although I'm sure that there are people who can turn Superman into dust by singing a particularly awful song, when playing a game there is nothing to gain from going up against said person if you are guaranteed to lose each time. There are people in the default database that can more than give Captain Awesome a scare, and often you'll need assistance to beat the really top villains. But, if you cannot hope to beat someone (with a little help) as the mod's Superman then you're not being Superman anymore. By 'the mod's Superman' I am referrring to the version that you start as in the mod - while it's fun to upgrade Rachel Noir as she becomes more popular, few people are going to want to make The Hulk the most agile hero, nor Batman the most strong, nor give Superman 1000 in every stat. In my opinion, the very top heroes should play as that hero would from the beginning of the mod and require very little adjustment from a player (unless they want to of course).

 

Again, I would seriously suggest trying a small mod on one location based on one character in the InfinityVerse and seeing how it works. If I had the time and the knowledge to do it myself I would, but I don't. I can import Lone Shark and change his name to Batman, but I don't know how strong Bane would need to be in comparison, for example - I just don't have the comic book knowledge. I know I'm repeating myself, but I'd rather download a three hero Gotham City mod in two weeks than never have a playable mod at all, and with the various mods seemingly going around in circles the latter is certainly a possibility.

[djthefunkchris]

Thanks for mentioning that, I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say.

 

 

 

I completely understand how this would make sense if you could control everything, but unfortunately we can't. For example, Batman will be penalised for low strength. Is that right, especially against other humans? The same thing with powers - I assume you are referring to strength in this example, but if the same applies to toughness or health points, then even the weakest regular attack is going to defeat a weak opponent. And while you can give all the average heroes and villains Regular 1 attacks you are then removing the option of upgrading, because doing so means that all attacks are one-hit KOs. Similarly, a number of the attributes will become 'iffy'. The attributes that allow you past 750 in a category, for example, are now pointless. Anything that gives you an extra roll is, in effect, largely moot because attacks are so deadly that it is conceivable you could go through a number of fights without even having an attack turn.

 

In my opinion, if certain characters cause huge problems, then leave them out, especially if it is not a particularly well known character. Although I'm sure that there are people who can turn Superman into dust by singing a particularly awful song, when playing a game there is nothing to gain from going up against said person if you are guaranteed to lose each time. There are people in the default database that can more than give Captain Awesome a scare, and often you'll need assistance to beat the really top villains. But, if you cannot hope to beat someone (with a little help) as the mod's Superman then you're not being Superman anymore. By 'the mod's Superman' I am referrring to the version that you start as in the mod - while it's fun to upgrade Rachel Noir as she becomes more popular, few people are going to want to make The Hulk the most agile hero, nor Batman the most strong, nor give Superman 1000 in every stat. In my opinion, the very top heroes should play as that hero would from the beginning of the mod and require very little adjustment from a player (unless they want to of course).

 

Again, I would seriously suggest trying a small mod on one location based on one character in the InfinityVerse and seeing how it works. If I had the time and the knowledge to do it myself I would, but I don't. I can import Lone Shark and change his name to Batman, but I don't know how strong Bane would need to be in comparison, for example - I just don't have the comic book knowledge. I know I'm repeating myself, but I'd rather download a three hero Gotham City mod in two weeks than never have a playable mod at all, and with the various mods seemingly going around in circles the latter is certainly a possibility.

 

I'm just way over the top I think... See, I keep going into the mystical and cosmic realms, and "thinking ahead", pluss the testing, and going.... "What am I going to do when I get to them?"

 

This mod in particular, for example, I'm hoping to include DC, Marvel, Dungeouns and Dragons (anyone see the little kobold I threw in there?), amoungst other things. I just want to be able to (me personally) play anywhere in these area's I want to make, and it be balanced within' the whole dataset. IF I make Elminster the Magician, and he ports himself to Earth, away from the Forgotten Realms, I want people (and myself) to "feel" like he is the Historical Mage of the Forgotten Realms..

 

I want to include people like Surtur, Terminus, Galan (Galactus), Mogo, Mephisto, Neron, Nightmare, Trigon, Thanos, the Greek and Asguardian Pantheons, The Guardians, The Lanterns, the Phantom Stranger if I want to, as well as King Aurthor's Round Table of Knights, and them all "feel" on scale to one another.

[jhd1]

I want to include people like Surtur, Terminus, Galan (Galactus), Mogo, Mephisto, Neron, Nightmare, Trigon, Thanos, the Greek and Asguardian Pantheons, The Guardians, The Lanterns, the Phantom Stranger if I want to, as well as King Aurthor's Round Table of Knights, and them all "feel" on scale to one another.

 

I think that's really the 'problem'. It's a fantastic and extremely ambitious idea but I don't know how well it will work in CBH given the limitations set by the game. I had a very quick flick through the mod and I can see how you are setting the world up, and I understand why. It's not the way I would have done it, but that's not to say it isn't a perfectly acceptable way of going about it. You've gone for a more cross-culture mod that goes way beyond what most people would expect in a comic book mod.

 

Once I've had a few turns I'll let you know how well I think it works in-game.

[mike b]

I know were yourcoming from DJ and hope you can work things out,iam most looking forward to your mod.

 

But 1 question though as Adam stated a normal human at top shape as Batman is a 600 in strength were would you rate Superman and those above him..

[djthefunkchris]

I know were yourcoming from DJ and hope you can work things out,iam most looking forward to your mod.

 

But 1 question though as Adam stated a normal human at top shape as Batman is a 600 in strength were would you rate Superman and those above him..

 

Honestly? You can't.... because of how the abilities and powers work. With attributes, and other things, you can make a character do things as superman, make him less susceptible to damage, and things... but you can't simulate Superman seriously. How about I put up what my ability scores would be for Aquaman instead:

 

Strength: 900

Agility: 1000

Reactions: 1000 (honestly, around 2800)

Toughness: 1000

Recovery: 800

Stamina: 900

Endurance: 700

Reasoning: 800

Cunning: 800

Willpower: 800

Technology: 150

Magical: 0 (probably I would give him around 800 for defensive purposes only, as he's shown strong magical defensive ability, not counting the telepathy he uses with marine life)

 

He would be trained in Physical Attacks, Animal Master, Ability to live underwater, Weapon Master level 3, Empathic Projection (perhaps).

 

Powers would all be in the Ultimate category.

 

This would be how to make him in the game with 600 being "Top Physical Shape"

 

give or take 50 points here and there. This is the power of a person capable of lifting 25 tons (for comparison).

 

Ok, Superman, taking away the maximums:

 

Strength: 2500

Agility: 1500

Reactions: 4900

Toughness: 2000

Recovery: 2000

Stamina: 1800

Endurance: 1500

Reasoning: 1100

Cunning: 1000

Willpower: 2000

Technology: 1000

Magical: 0

 

Superman would be Iconic in the set-up, but in the whole DC Universe, he would only be Major League. Death, Destiny, Lucifer Morningstar, and Morpheus would be Iconic, with Dream and Spectre being ALMOST Iconic, Phantom Stranger, Anti-Monitor, Monitor, Trigon, and perhaps Kulak being Legendary.

 

All of these Batman wouldn't even try to get into fisticuffs with, outside of to buy someone with more power "time" to get back in the action (or if he had some "Super Battlesuit"), nor would Aquaman.

 

I've already counted 106 people that I can't really simulate in DC alone, almost double that in Marvel (if not more). It's really a shame, because I wanted to do it.

 

Hulk (Note: Hulk normal, not Nul, or one of the super Hulk Modes)

 

Strength: 2000

Agility: 200

Reactions: 600

Toughness: 2000

 

 

EDIT: Almost half, if not more, of all the Super-Heroes (and I'm talking main ones) would be higher then 1000 in alot of the abilities, if the "Standard" of 600 being maximum in the first four abilities is to be used.

 

I honestly think the game is set up to make it HAVE to be balanced, as long as you have more villains then heroes.

 

EDIT (again): Just a FYI, I think I figured it out... I have to get to work and see how it plays out now.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm going over all the stats, and keeping it balanced (sort of) with the Default. The major difference people will find is with the toughness ability on lower level's. By definition (DC and Marvel characters rolled into one mod), the game will be more challenging then using the default database. With all these villains that have underlings to do their "Dirty Work", you have quite a bit to accomplish, that isn't represented in the default database to the extent it will be in this. It was absolutely necessary to change things, or you definately would be banging your head (if you hate grinding and long fights) when going up against lower levels (1 to 3 levels). Batman and Spiderman should be able to take out low level thugs without alot of effort, unless (roll of the dice) the thugs get lucky... But just on a normal basis, no. Hopefully this is going to be represented in this MOD.

 

What this will do (hopefully, I haven't enough done to test is properly, only tested with default data) is make the gameplay more fun, and less repetitive.

[djthefunkchris]

Testing results show that it seems I've been able to accomplish my goals. I have been re-doing Metropolis, which has been going faster then I expected...

 

Next time I have data for the public will hopefully be with Metropolis, Gotham, as well as Southside and Bludhaven completed, with bonus of 30th Century "Legion of Super-Heroes and Villains" done. This will allow for people to try out the time travelling aspect of the game.. which unfortunately has had me enthralled with when I could have been working on the mod. Meaning, I almost added too many timelines too soon, lol. Anyways, back to the grind.

[djthefunkchris]

350+ and going...

 

I have a little problem though, and I'm hoping for maybe some expertise, or at least some advice on "how" to do a few things....

 

A little background: I'm also filling in historical scenario's, such as "Silver Age" "Golden Age", etc. Actually, I have 9 different time frames, but really only two are playable in at the moment, as I will fill in blanks as I go... Some Characters are easy, they either existed, or didn't exist. Some were known by different names, depending on "when" you step into the history... Nightwing as Robin for example. That's not hard to figure out...

 

Right now, my thoughts are on Brainiac. First the skinny: Brainiac is a renegade Coluun scientist, and villain (Shrunk Krypton, also shrunk Metropolis, both of which has been restored at some point). Colu is the planet he calls home, but really has nothing to do with my problem.

 

His real name is Vril Dox, and he made a "Clone" of himself that ends up being Vril Dox II, which formed L.E.G.I.O.N., then later forms R.E.B.E.L., etc...

 

However, Brainiac (Vril Dox) creates a remote scout unite that takes over the body of Milton Fine. IF I'm reading right, this "remote scout unit" eventually aquires a robitic body, and so on and so on, till he becomes the present day Brainiac (not the future).

 

My problem is trying to understand the difference here, between the "real" actual Vril Dox/Brainiac, and the "remote scout unit" that seems to be the one we always actually see battling against the heroes of earth. Now, I know what the powers and abilities of each of the different Brainiac's, are... at least these: Brainiac I, Milton Fine, Robitic Form, Brainiac 2.5, Brainiac 6, Brainiac 8, Brainiac 12, Brainiac 13, and the current Brainiac...

 

What I'm having a problem with is figuring out which one's are "Seperate", and so should be a seperate character all together, and which one's are just a different version of himself, thus just an "Alternate" of the same character. I think I have down which goes in which time frame, but I don't know which ones are actually just a duplicate of the other, because the information I'm reading doesn't seem to be making it as clear as I would like.

 

Any information would be much appreciated. Thankyou in advance.