Modern Warriors 2

[shane454]

???

 

Maybe it WAS unclear, sorry. It's simple... In this mod, BJ Penn punches harder than Overeem. GSP is physically stronger than Overeem. THAT makes ZERO sense, unless of course there is some sort of a stat balancing built into the game based on physical size.

Take the fight night series for example. A 100 maxed out power rating for a welterweight is really only a fraction of the actual top power rating you can have in the game, and if you fight someone of a larger weight class with only a 90 in power, he will actually be stronger and hit harder than you.

This is where my question came in. ARE these fighters individual ratings a rating for their specific size? Because if not, again, they don't make ANY sense. It is important because fighters should be able to go up and down in weight classes. Just like in reality. Manny Pacquiao was a huge puncher down in the lower weight classes against men his own size, but you don't see him knock anyone out as he climbs that size ladder. He fights Margarito and dominates with speed and skill but he can't knock someone out that much bigger. The opposite happens, he gets hurt to the body from the larger guy in that fight. It's physics dude.

Since you didn't want to help me, I just decided to find out myself. So...I ran some quick fights. Open weight. I used Aldo as the guinea pig seeing as he has quite high ratings.

Here is the results:

Aldo vs Alistair Overeem = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Alistair Overeem II = Overeem SD

Aldo vs Jonny Hendricks = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Jonny Hendricks II = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Ben Rothwell = Aldo KO 2

Aldo vs Vitor Belfort = Aldo KO 1

Aldo vs Ben Askren = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Vitaly Minikov = Aldo KO 2

[LeBlancX]

Maybe it WAS unclear, sorry. It's simple... In this mod, BJ Penn punches harder than Overeem. GSP is physically stronger than Overeem. THAT makes ZERO sense, unless of course there is some sort of a stat balancing built into the game based on physical size.

Take the fight night series for example. A 100 maxed out power rating for a welterweight is really only a fraction of the actual top power rating you can have in the game, and if you fight someone of a larger weight class with only a 90 in power, he will actually be stronger and hit harder than you.

This is where my question came in. ARE these fighters individual ratings a rating for their specific size? Because if not, again, they don't make ANY sense. It is important because fighters should be able to go up and down in weight classes. Just like in reality. Manny Pacquiao was a huge puncher down in the lower weight classes against men his own size, but you don't see him knock anyone out as he climbs that size ladder. He fights Margarito and dominates with speed and skill but he can't knock someone out that much bigger. The opposite happens, he gets hurt to the body from the larger guy in that fight. It's physics dude.

Since you didn't want to help me, I just decided to find out myself. So...I ran some quick fights. Open weight. I used Aldo as the guinea pig seeing as he has quite high ratings.

Here is the results:

Aldo vs Alistair Overeem = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Alistair Overeem II = Overeem SD

Aldo vs Jonny Hendricks = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Jonny Hendricks II = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Ben Rothwell = Aldo KO 2

Aldo vs Vitor Belfort = Aldo KO 1

Aldo vs Ben Askren = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Vitaly Minikov = Aldo KO 2

 

Legit point of view

[Tag01]

Maybe it WAS unclear, sorry. It's simple... In this mod, BJ Penn punches harder than Overeem. GSP is physically stronger than Overeem. THAT makes ZERO sense, unless of course there is some sort of a stat balancing built into the game based on physical size.

Take the fight night series for example. A 100 maxed out power rating for a welterweight is really only a fraction of the actual top power rating you can have in the game, and if you fight someone of a larger weight class with only a 90 in power, he will actually be stronger and hit harder than you.

This is where my question came in. ARE these fighters individual ratings a rating for their specific size? Because if not, again, they don't make ANY sense. It is important because fighters should be able to go up and down in weight classes. Just like in reality. Manny Pacquiao was a huge puncher down in the lower weight classes against men his own size, but you don't see him knock anyone out as he climbs that size ladder. He fights Margarito and dominates with speed and skill but he can't knock someone out that much bigger. The opposite happens, he gets hurt to the body from the larger guy in that fight. It's physics dude.

Since you didn't want to help me, I just decided to find out myself. So...I ran some quick fights. Open weight. I used Aldo as the guinea pig seeing as he has quite high ratings.

Here is the results:

Aldo vs Alistair Overeem = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Alistair Overeem II = Overeem SD

Aldo vs Jonny Hendricks = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Jonny Hendricks II = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Ben Rothwell = Aldo KO 2

Aldo vs Vitor Belfort = Aldo KO 1

Aldo vs Ben Askren = Aldo UD

Aldo vs Vitaly Minikov = Aldo KO 2

 

Ok, the English is a Little more clear on this post. I'm not sure if you're trolling though; I just simmed also vs overeem 25 times and overeem went 25-0. Hendricks went 9-1, losing one by armbar (not totally unthinkable). Askren went 9-1 losing once by KO (not unrealistic). I ran a few with rothwell and rothwell won them all. Minakov lost a few, and that's not realistic, but there's not much I can do about that.

 

Stats are supposed to scale with a fighters weight; it does appear they do so less than in previous versions of the game. But unfortunately there is no real way to balance fighters the way you are suggesting. If I limited smaller fighters to lower punching power and strength, there are no knockouts in those weight divisions. Even more important is that the balance within those divisions is off. As it is now aldo has more power than most fighters at 145;compared to many by a large margin. Restricting smaller fighters to those lower stats shrinks the variance between the best and the worst in each division, and that's bad game balance.

 

Ultimately though, there are no open weight divisions in my mod. I've built this mod to fit reality. Fighters are built to be able to fight in certain divisions, and they are balanced within them. If you're taking my mod and making edits to add open weight fights you may get some weird results. That's because that isn't what my mod is designed for. From my experience most people are looking for a mod that mirrors reality, so I'm not going to balance things in favor of some kind of open weight fantasy world versus real world weight classes.

 

P.s. If this is something that really bothers you I would make a thread in the suggestions forum. Have you played the default database at all? The best featherweight in that DB blasts nearly every super heavyweight in the game, so it's more of a gameplay issue than one with my mod.

[shane454]

Well I am an American and English is my first language. I may jumble my writing together but I don't appreciate the insult. No I am not trolling, that was my results in that order....

 

Also, I was not trying to bash your mod nor did I have a gameplay complaint. I was asking a simple question, which you somewhat answered.

 

I also am not living in a fantasy world. IN REAL LIFE, fighters with upwards of twenty pound weight differences fight in your "real world divisions". Also people move up and down in "real life" in YOUR "real world divisions"........ I am not too sure why exactly it is fantasy land crap for me to want Cain Valasquez to rip any and all LHW or MW to shreds if they moved up to HW...

 

Also, I was not suggesting scaling the power stats on smaller fighters. I was suggesting scaling ALL power AND durability stats. If they have weaker chins than the other guy has power there would still be KO's... A power puncher going up in weight would notice not being able to hurt guys as easily and a good chinned guy at 145 would have trouble with the power of guys at 155 or 70. You would do the same with speed but backwards and to a slightly smaller degree. Fast guy at 170 drops to 155 and not so fast anymore. I'm NOT SURE how that is fantasy.....

 

I also created a fighter just for this to test JUST now!

5'7" 135lbs cutting from 150. Did a template with nothing but good boxing and decent muay thai. Gave him striking attributes. Capped his power stats around 50 and durability stats around 45. Then I copied him and upped the 2nd fighters power stats by 4.

Then I made them fight 15 times. Fighter 2 won 9 times. 12 of the 15 fights ended in KO/TKO.

This isn't proof about the balancing problems you mention, but it is CLEARLY proof that KOs would still be happening at lower weights.

 

Also it usually seems like a 10 point difference in any given stat is enough to utterly dominate. I don't think you would need all 100 points for variation. ESPECIALLY the physical ratings like speed, power, durability. Two grown men weighing in at the same weight, taking a different fight weight into account, would rarely need more than even a 20 point difference in any of those stats I would think, but I don't know the mechanics of this game so you tell me.

 

BESIDES, I was not telling YOU or anyone else to do this or how to do this... I've barely looked into it. I know NOTHING about it. Thats why I ASKED YOU! Though I DO apologize oh GREAT MODDING GENIUS. HOW rude of me to question anything YOU say or do. SOOOO sorry.....

[Tag01]

I'm not sure why you're getting upset. I shouldn't have assumed English wasn't your first language, but you're being kind of hostile. Like I said before, I'm not scaling every fighter back because I've got fighters balanced within their weight class. To scale the weight classes down like you're suggesting, by the time I got to the lower weights id have to cap stats like power at 60 or so. That means the spread within that the difference in power between the top and bottom of the weight class is much smaller.

 

And I said what you were asking for was fantasy because JDS will never fight Aldo, ever. The mod doesn't have an open weight promotion, and adding one may lead to odd results since it's not designed for that kind of fantasy booking. The mod is balanced so that fights that might actually happen have a realistic ending. You said you're concerned about JDS not thrashing light heavyweights that come up in weight; who specifically? Those are two of the most closely intertwined weight classes and I doubt there are many at 205 that could hang with him in the mod besides Jones. The way I have the stats arranged follows the default database, and is designed to lead to accurate results from realistic booking. You're not taking into account some of the unintended consequences of dropping ratings like you're suggested; specifically when it comes to regens. If you lower regen quality to match where you want power/chin stats to be, their other stats will be that low across the board and your new fighters will never be competitive. The alternative is that featherweight regens enter the game possibly with power or chin 40 points above Aldo. The mod breaks down quickly if you do it that way.

 

Ultimately I'm not inclined to completely revamp the mod to make fantasy matchups more realistic at the expense of it working the way it does now. Like I suggested in my last post, weight differences don't seem to matter as much as they have in previous versions. You are probably better off making a suggestion thread about that in the suggestions forum. I think it's probably more of a game issue than a mod issue.

[Damian]

You're not taking into account some of the unintended consequences of dropping ratings like you're suggested; specifically when it comes to regens. If you lower regen quality to match where you want power/chin stats to be, their other stats will be that low across the board and your new fighters will never be competitive. The alternative is that featherweight regens enter the game possibly with power or chin 40 points above Aldo. The mod breaks down quickly if you do it that way.

 

THIS...

 

Before joining MW, I briefly played with my own mod back in the WMMA2/3 days and attempted to build it in the manner that Heavyweights would be default hit harder than smaller guys, smaller guys would be faster.

 

I quickly found when playing the mod, that is was essentially broken within a year of game time. Not to mention to get realistic results, i would have to make someone like Askren, worse in technical wrestling stats than a Heavyweight, or he'd just take them down anyway.

 

The game is just not designed to scale stats. I'd simply recommend that anyone just editts stats in-game of a fighter if you change his weightclass and find its not quite right, as there isn't much Tag, me or anyone can do with that issue.

[iverbure]

Well I am an American and English is my first language. I may jumble my writing together but I don't appreciate the insult. No I am not trolling, that was my results in that order....

 

Also, I was not trying to bash your mod nor did I have a gameplay complaint. I was asking a simple question, which you somewhat answered.

 

I also am not living in a fantasy world. IN REAL LIFE, fighters with upwards of twenty pound weight differences fight in your "real world divisions". Also people move up and down in "real life" in YOUR "real world divisions"........ I am not too sure why exactly it is fantasy land crap for me to want Cain Valasquez to rip any and all LHW or MW to shreds if they moved up to HW...

 

Also, I was not suggesting scaling the power stats on smaller fighters. I was suggesting scaling ALL power AND durability stats. If they have weaker chins than the other guy has power there would still be KO's... A power puncher going up in weight would notice not being able to hurt guys as easily and a good chinned guy at 145 would have trouble with the power of guys at 155 or 70. You would do the same with speed but backwards and to a slightly smaller degree. Fast guy at 170 drops to 155 and not so fast anymore. I'm NOT SURE how that is fantasy.....

 

I also created a fighter just for this to test JUST now!

5'7" 135lbs cutting from 150. Did a template with nothing but good boxing and decent muay thai. Gave him striking attributes. Capped his power stats around 50 and durability stats around 45. Then I copied him and upped the 2nd fighters power stats by 4.

Then I made them fight 15 times. Fighter 2 won 9 times. 12 of the 15 fights ended in KO/TKO.

This isn't proof about the balancing problems you mention, but it is CLEARLY proof that KOs would still be happening at lower weights.

 

Also it usually seems like a 10 point difference in any given stat is enough to utterly dominate. I don't think you would need all 100 points for variation. ESPECIALLY the physical ratings like speed, power, durability. Two grown men weighing in at the same weight, taking a different fight weight into account, would rarely need more than even a 20 point difference in any of those stats I would think, but I don't know the mechanics of this game so you tell me.

 

BESIDES, I was not telling YOU or anyone else to do this or how to do this... I've barely looked into it. I know NOTHING about it. Thats why I ASKED YOU! Though I DO apologize oh GREAT MODDING GENIUS. HOW rude of me to question anything YOU say or do. SOOOO sorry.....

 

make your own mod and I will criticize it. otherwise STFU

[gingerdilligaf]

Seems like this argument is in the wrong thread as its more about game mechanics than the actual mod. The problem only really crops up if you start running openweight divisions & I tend to avoid them as they're unrealistic anyway.

[mikedanton]

 

Also, I was not suggesting scaling the power stats on smaller fighters. I was suggesting scaling ALL power AND durability stats. If they have weaker chins than the other guy has power there would still be KO's... A power puncher going up in weight would notice not being able to hurt guys as easily and a good chinned guy at 145 would have trouble with the power of guys at 155 or 70. You would do the same with speed but backwards and to a slightly smaller degree. Fast guy at 170 drops to 155 and not so fast anymore. I'm NOT SURE how that is fantasy.....

 

 

WMMA3 was better at simulating open weight fights. I too have noticed that openweight fights in WMMA4 are influenced less by weight than in the third game.

I'm actually playing the 3rd game at the moment. I still like it a lot.

[jsilv0]

Anyone else having a ton of fighters go on hiatus in this mod? In MW 1 in a little over a year I just had Frankie Edgar go on hiatus. In the same amount of gameplay in this mod I've had Patrick Cummins, Ben Henderson, Joseph Benavidez, Rashad Evans, and Gunnar Nelson all go on hiatus.

[GUINNC]

Anyone else having a ton of fighters go on hiatus in this mod? In MW 1 in a little over a year I just had Frankie Edgar go on hiatus. In the same amount of gameplay in this mod I've had Patrick Cummins, Ben Henderson, Joseph Benavidez, Rashad Evans, and Gunnar Nelson all go on hiatus.

 

I like it. Makes it feel very realistic. Don't think of it as a "hiatus" more like a medical or personal issue they need to resolve.

[Tag01]

Has that been happening a lot for others? I hadn't noticed anything unusual.

[ecw413]

Has that been happening a lot for others? I hadn't noticed anything unusual.

 

I'm playing as Bellator and none of my fighters have gone on hiatus. I can only remember seeing one or two stories of UFC fighters taking a hiatus. Might just be bad luck for that game.

[ecw413]

Minor thing I noticed while playing. Invicta's Atomweight class is entered as 100-105, but should be 90-105. Caused them to create a second Atomweight title with the 100-105 restrictions and the original title held by Tiburcio was never defended.

[gingerdilligaf]

Tiny thing i noticed is Olivier Aubin-Mercier his name comes up as Default in the fight engine

[jsilv0]

I'm playing as Bellator and none of my fighters have gone on hiatus. I can only remember seeing one or two stories of UFC fighters taking a hiatus. Might just be bad luck for that game.

 

If this isn't happening to anyone else I'll just take it as bad luck. Really bad luck because Daniel Cormier is on hiatus now too

[jsilv0]

And now Rafael Dos Anjos has decided to go on hiatus as well. This is getting out of control lol

[ecw413]

And now Rafael Dos Anjos has decided to go on hiatus as well. This is getting out of control lol

 

I'm just guessing, but maybe it's because UFC's roster is so big?

[ecw413]

Tiny thing i noticed is Olivier Aubin-Mercier his name comes up as Default in the fight engine

 

This is also true for Herica Tiburcio

[jsilv0]

I'm just guessing, but maybe it's because UFC's roster is so big?

 

I thought of this, but it doesn't explain why my save in the first Modern Warriors had so few by comparison. Oh and Gegard Mousasi and Luke Rockhold have joined the hiatus gang. I'm running out of marketable fighters fast

[gingerdilligaf]

Its just bad luck. I had very few on hiatus but twice i had to cancel a Velasquez vs Werdum main event through injury & now Werdum has a 2year shoulder injury :-o The heavyweight division is a bit stacked with veterans & useless lumps so it looks like Dos Santos gets another crack at the title

[ecw413]

Not sure if this has already been brought to your attention, but Maryna Moroz is in the database twice. The other profile is in as Marina Moroz.

[CoIVIboguard]

Problem with Babene and Niinimaki

 

Hey guys, I have faced a problem of not being able to access Gregory Babene's and Tom Niinimaki's profiles. Every time I try or even click on their names, the game crashes with an error "Run-time error 3021" as if there are no profiles for them, although they exist.

 

I thought that was because of the specific letters in their names, but Krag1 mentioned above that he was able to solve the problem by changing locale settings. What setting should I switch to in that case?

[LeBlancX]

Noticied several rosters of promotions like Bellator, WSOF, One FC, etc. are missing some fighters that should/could be added to the database. Also a few fighters records need to be updated. I'm working on a list right now of things that could be included/updated down the road in future updates for MW. I could send you my process if you're interested.

[xenus]

Hey guys, I have faced a problem of not being able to access Gregory Babene's and Tom Niinimaki's profiles. Every time I try or even click on their names, the game crashes with an error "Run-time error 3021" as if there are no profiles for them, although they exist.

 

I thought that was because of the specific letters in their names, but Krag1 mentioned above that he was able to solve the problem by changing locale settings. What setting should I switch to in that case?

 

I have the same problem in original database, people say its either Russian or Spanish. But it didn`t worked for me.

I do not know why, and what the solution is, if that doesn`t work for you too.

 

Edit: what helped for me was setting non-unicode programs language to English, took me 2 times to work though. (google it) It was on default DB, but I bet it`s the same on MW.

 

Unusual question - how long does MW playthrough takes? I mean since it involves real fighters, if one dies, he is dead, no respawning.

 

And the other question is if I add more promotions, and new update comes out, will I be able to update without losing my additions?

It was reaaaally nice to see that even some Lithuanian fighters are in. But I would like to at least try to add some local/regional Russian and European clubs/promotions/fighters.