"The Death Of RaveX"?

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=Phil Parent]I'll give you hints. - It will have ~25 Feds. - It will have ~600 Wrestlers. - It is very conceptual, nothing like it has been done before, to my knowledge. - It is real world, but not entirely, although the part that isn't exactly real world isn't entirely fictional. - It will come with all new pictures, made especially for the set. - Data is at the planning stage, mainly listing and sorting and choosing.[/QUOTE] I've been trying to "break away" from the "kyky" pics sets with the stuff I put out there. I've also been tinkering with some new backgrounds, so if you're interested in using my pics (examples can be found here in the mod section) I would't mind providing a "pics set" exclusive to R-X.

[Guest kedrickmclemore]

Tcp1 Just Keep Up The Good Work [QUOTE=The Stallion]Not trying to turn anything into an argument, but I felt somebody had to say something. TCP1 put a lot of hard work into that mod and its not fair for DocStevens to attack him like he did.[/QUOTE] he Attacks everyone. All i have to say to TCP1 just do your best and it will show in your work. only two things can happen. People either like or not. And after you release it for the people that liked it just work on keep there interest and the other's the HE double Hockey Stick with them. Because some people are going to complain about everything regardless. You could have two people you could give one 1 Billion dollars and the other 10 Billion dollar. although i would be happy with just 500,000 dollars. but the question that would be probably asked by the one that got 1 Billion. Why does that other get 10? it really doesn't matter. what can't you buy with 1 Billion that you can by with 10 Billion. All i am saying is that there are going to be guy that reject everything. those are the one's that you just have to ignore. Personally, Judging from your posts i am looking forward to playing it.

[Wiggy]

Phil -- can't wait to see the new stuff.... TCP1 -- LOVE the 93 scenario...playing all the time, and its a great piece of work. Keep up all the efforts. But don't anger Doc Stevens...he's got anger management issues cause you hurt his feelings by turning down his worthless information that wasn't even correct.. hadn't seen that post about his so-called "stables"...since when does a tag team with a manager become considered a stable?? The Heenan Family, The Dangerous Alliance, and The Dungeon of Doom...THOSE are stables... and the Royal Court/Diesel Power stuff?? Don't even get me started...a bunch of guys teaming up for one time as part of the Survivor Series doesn't constitute a stable either... Hey, look at that...I'm off topic. OK, quick recap...Phil, good...TCP1, good...DocStevens, silly rabbit.

[Cold Cobra]

It's good to hear from you Phil. I may only occasionally post on boards but trust me when I say that I've been using RaveX since EWR 1.0. Good to hear there will be a real lifey sort of update for WreSpi2, as I had to make my own for the original. And as for the loads of workers v less, I go with loads as I like to play as low down companies and rise and normally don't use the same worker twice, unless it's been a long time. When it comes to WreSpi on the other hand, less is better, as it gives you a better chance to get bookings. In other words, good to see you haven't dissapeared, as your last few posts on the RaveX boards were a sad note to leave on :)

[Adam Ryland]

Please keep it on topic, I don't want to see any more posts in this thread continuing these petty arguments.

[Sartagis]

[QUOTE=Phil Parent]The era of the jumbo "Real World" update is what's dead or what needs to die. You know...100 feds, 3000 workers (2/3 of which you've never heard of), more details than is fun to play with or work on.[/QUOTE] I like my mods big but not overly big. Though the 100 feds and 3000 workers may be over board, that I'll agree. But I still like hefty mods, with tons of guys and feds. I think the main reason mods got so big was because people would start requesting guys and feds from their area and modders wanted to make them happy and like the mod, so they would get added in the next update. What I think would solve all that is if current mods had the basic must have promotions and wrestlers. Then all other small feds and basically unknown wrestlers would be part of seperate packs you could DL to import, if ya wanted them, only problem with that is that some things don't transfer (or is that only when you put them into a currently running game?). Anyways that doesn't really have to do with this topic. It's nice to see ya back adn the annoucement is nice to hear (though now I think FPR updates are even further off lol). Cheers! :)

[Michael Wayne]

so why don't the people who want their local fed in add them in themselves to their own game? A modder does it and then EVERYONE has to deal with it. There's no sense in adding a company, doing the research on workers and checking up on things for a fed 1, maybe 2 people tops are going to play as. All it does is add to everyone else's loading times. USA is loading with enough feds as it is. If every joe schmo fed was added, do you realize what the loading times and size of the databases would be? Realism is one thing... Overkill is another.

[Sartagis]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne]so why don't the people who want their local fed in add them in themselves to their own game? A modder does it and then EVERYONE has to deal with it. There's no sense in adding a company, doing the research on workers and checking up on things for a fed 1, maybe 2 people tops are going to play as. All it does is add to everyone else's loading times. USA is loading with enough feds as it is.[/QUOTE] Did you even read my post through? First off people that request their local fed and workers because they want them but want them to be in line with the mod they are requesting them for and want the same quality the modder supplies. Secondly, I started off by stating that most mods get huge cause they (the makers) want to make EVERYONE happy. So they add small unknown promotions and workers, I then said if they wanted to make everyone happy then all those small feds and workers should be made into [B]update packages that people could DL[/B] to import into their own game. That way people who don't want them don't have to deal with them. Thus keeping the load times down in general. And using your logic why can't people who don't want all those feds and workers just delete them from the data themselves? It certainly is easier to delete stuff from a mod then add it. But whatever. [QUOTE=Michael Wayne]If every joe schmo fed was added, do you realize what the loading times and size of the databases would be? Realism is one thing... Overkill is another.[/QUOTE] And did you not read where I said 100 feds and 3000 workers was overboard? Read man, read. If the modder doesn't care about pleasing everyone then the post didn't apply to them. As I said I clearly stated "I think the main reason mods got so big was because people would start requesting guys and feds from their area and [B]modders wanted to make them happy and like the mod[/B], so they would get added in the next update." Please tell me how my solution doesn't work for everyone (except mod makers, but as I said it only applies to those who wish to please everyone and they would do the extra work anyways). And it wasn't aimed at Phil he's made up his mind of what his next project is. It was merely a comment on what he said the problem was with mods now. Wish he open the topic up for. I gave a plausible and possible solution. End of story. Now back to the important matter. Phil's back. RaveX is back. Hurrah!

[Adam Ryland]

Play nice children, there's no need to get aggressive.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=Sartagis]Did you even read my post through? First off people that request their local fed and workers because they want them but want them to be in line with the mod they are requesting them for and want the same quality the modder supplies. Secondly, I started off by stating that most mods get huge cause they (the makers) want to make EVERYONE happy. So they add small unknown promotions and workers, I then said if they wanted to make everyone happy then all those small feds and workers should be made into [B]update packages that people could DL[/B] to import into their own game. That way people who don't want them don't have to deal with them. Thus keeping the load times down in general. And using your logic why can't people who don't want all those feds and workers just delete them from the data themselves? It certainly is easier to delete stuff from a mod then add it. But whatever. And did you not read where I said 100 feds and 3000 workers was overboard? Read man, read. If the modder doesn't care about pleasing everyone then the post didn't apply to them. As I said I clearly stated "I think the main reason mods got so big was because people would start requesting guys and feds from their area and [B]modders wanted to make them happy and like the mod[/B], so they would get added in the next update." Please tell me how my solution doesn't work for everyone (except mod makers, but as I said it only applies to those who wish to please everyone and they would do the extra work anyways). And it wasn't aimed at Phil he's made up his mind of what his next project is. It was merely a comment on what he said the problem was with mods now. Wish he open the topic up for. I gave a plausible and possible solution. End of story. Now back to the important matter. Phil's back. RaveX is back. Hurrah![/QUOTE] why should a few hundred, or a few thousand go through their data and delete all the feds, titles, workers, relationships and everything else when the person who WANTS to play as that promotion could have done the work themselves and gotten what they wanted? So everyone else should be forced to delete it because a few others couldn't do it themselves? Modders choose to add this extra bs in to begin with which is why these updates are so over the top, and take so much longer to complete. People always criticize updates because they can't be bothered, don't want to be bothered or simply don't know all the information needed to do their own mod, but can't add the fed they want to their own update. It's like sharing socks. Keep your socks on your OWN feet. Ravex exhausted their efforts the first time around with the whole "RX/RX Lite". Look at the fruits of those labors...

[The Stallion]

[QUOTE=Phil Parent]I'll give you hints. - It will have ~25 Feds. - It will have ~600 Wrestlers. - It is very conceptual, nothing like it has been done before, to my knowledge. - It is real world, but not entirely, although the part that isn't exactly real world isn't entirely fictional. - It will come with all new pictures, made especially for the set. - Data is at the planning stage, mainly listing and sorting and choosing.[/QUOTE] So Phil, your saying that this is for WreSpri2 and not TEW06? If thats true, then whats the plan for TEW06? That is if you dont mind me asking.

[Jeff Cartwright]

TEW06? You know, I thought about fixing the RaveX TEW update a couple of times. After opening the editor, I decided against it. It's too much work and way too time consuming. A data set with any more than 20 promotions and 1000-1500 workers is too much for one person to manage. When more than one person works on the data, things tend to be very inconsistent. After 4+ years, I think I might be completely done doing data work. I prefer playing now, instead of working. From the sounds of it, Phil has no plans on continuing the TEW data either. He's doing WreSpi2 stuff, but I have no plans to help him.

[The Stallion]

[QUOTE=Jeff Cartwright]TEW06? You know, I thought about fixing the RaveX TEW update a couple of times. After opening the editor, I decided against it. It's too much work and way too time consuming. A data set with any more than 20 promotions and 1000-1500 workers is too much for one person to manage. When more than one person works on the data, things tend to be very inconsistent. After 4+ years, I think I might be completely done doing data work. I prefer playing now, instead of working. From the sounds of it, Phil has no plans on continuing the TEW data either. He's doing WreSpi2 stuff, but I have no plans to help him.[/QUOTE] Sorry I meant 05.

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=Jeff Cartwright]TEW06? You know, I thought about fixing the RaveX TEW update a couple of times. After opening the editor, I decided against it. It's too much work and way too time consuming. A data set with any more than 20 promotions and 1000-1500 workers is too much for one person to manage. When more than one person works on the data, things tend to be very inconsistent. After 4+ years, I think I might be completely done doing data work. I prefer playing now, instead of working. From the sounds of it, Phil has no plans on continuing the TEW data either. He's doing WreSpi2 stuff, but I have no plans to help him.[/QUOTE] More than 1000-1500? Man, even 1000 is a scary sized update, considering the tools at our disposal, IMO. I have tried again and again just to put together a small fictional DB (300-400) with the last TEWs, and i just can't be bothered to go through with it. I once had a 550 worker DB worked out for last years TEW in Excel but the idea of manually entering in that many workers 1 by 1 in the editor using sliders and whatnot just drained me of all enthusiasm... For those who don't know, the setup of the editor is great if you want to edit one or two guy's, but trying to do more than that is a real time consuming, tedious chore. I have SOOOO much respect for the ones who have even managed to put out a semi-coherant update. Even DOTT is far from perfect, though it's by far the best, and the only one I find fully playable (TEGE is damn close though).

[TCP1]

[QUOTE=Dolfanar]I have SOOOO much respect for the ones who have even managed to put out a semi-coherant update. Even DOTT is far from perfect, though it's by far the best, and the only one I find fully playable (TEGE is damn close though).[/QUOTE] Wooooo, cheap plug! Your respect is well-received and well deserved. :) How would you suggest I could improve TEGE?

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=TCP1]Wooooo, cheap plug! Your respect is well-received and well deserved. :) How would you suggest I could improve TEGE?[/QUOTE] Details and stat leveling pretty much. making sure that you are assigning respect appropriately for example (based on workers abilities/knowledge, reputation, experience, etc...). One big issue I see even in DOTT is guy's being assigned Gimmicks they don't have the necessary stats for. Older guy's tend to have stats based on "at the time" rather than stats from their prime with the age difference made up for in the physcal attributes (Which as I understand it was the way Adam intended the stats to work). Biographical stuff, as I've noticed in TEGE the weight classes are assigned strangely. For example Bob Backlund, Randy Savage, Bret hart are all listed as Heavyweights, but they certainly never weighed more than the 280 pound limit Adam stipulates for that weight class in the help file. If you are using a different scale, that's cool too (I use one myself), but it should be documented and applied consistently across the board so everyone understands where you are coming from. Right now DOTT has the details down better and is a bit more consistent (keeping in mind it's been worked on longer, that's not so surprising). However even DOTT is setup in such a way that you have WWF running three way dances in 1983, and you have modern venues like Torontos Air Canada Centre (Which is in the Great Lakes region, rather than Ontario for some reason) which shouldn't be there. Unfortunately the only way to check this stuff out is by gutting it out and testing every bit of it (for gimmicks for instance) because there is no easy way of doing it in the editor, and there is no way to export the stats into a more easily reviewed medium (ie. Excel). Personally what I like to do is do everything in Excel first, then put the data in the editor. This makes things WAY easier to balance and keep consistent, but is also so tedious that I haven't produced much of anything useful, so my way is certainly no guarantee of anything.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE]For example Bob Backlund, Randy Savage, Bret hart are all listed as Heavyweights, but they certainly never weighed more than the 280 pound limit Adam stipulates for that weight class in the help file.[/QUOTE] that's because WWE considers a heavyweight over 240lbs. Why Adam chose 280 is beyond me, as no federation has ever required a worker to be 280lbs to be considered a heavyweight.

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne]that's because WWE considers a heavyweight over 240lbs. Why Adam chose 280 is beyond me, as no federation has ever required a worker to be 280lbs to be considered a heavyweight.[/QUOTE] WWE considers everyone over 220 a "Heavyweight" actually(Hence Benoit & Jericho fighting in the heavyweight division, not Cruisers (who are <220). Hell, until 1997 or so, the WWE *ONLY* had "Heavyweights". Using WWE as a guideline for this sort of thing is a pretty bad idea... PS, Neither Savage, Hart or Backlund were ever billed at 240. Savage, was the closest, usually billed at between 237 and 239, with Backlund and Hart closer to 235.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne]that's because WWE considers a heavyweight over 240lbs. Why Adam chose 280 is beyond me, as no federation has ever required a worker to be 280lbs to be considered a heavyweight.[/QUOTE] They're not the same thing! The size classification system used for wrestlers is stand-alone, the term "heavyweight" is not in any way synonomous with the "heavyweight" used by real wrestling promotions when making their divisions - it'd be pointless to do so, as Dolfanar pointed out the WWF spent years classifying pretty much everyone as heavyweights. In answer to the original posts, Backlund, Hart and Savage would all be Middleweights anyway. Also, remember that the size classification is NOT based entirely on weight, its also about height and body shape.

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland]Also, remember that the size classification is NOT based entirely on weight, its also about height and body shape.[/QUOTE] Actually Adam, THAT part actually bothers me. It's a little ambiguous. How does Height and Body Shape fit in exactly? If someone is 5'5 350 pounds... what is he? 6'11, 350? 6'11, 250? One reason, I *really* miss real height and weights :( When I edit, I tend to use a pretty streamlined chart for size class. I know it's not exactly what was intended, but it works for my own sanity :o 100-140 Very Small 141-180 Small 181-220 Lightweight 221-260 Middleweight 261-300 Heavyweight 301-360 Large Heavyweight 361-450 Super Heavyweight 451+ Giant

[Guest Ransik]

A thought occured to me on having only about 1,000 workers in the game. What in the world would be the point in playing as any fed under the status of Cult? Regional would be pushing it, but there wouldn't be any workers you could financially sign and not go bankrupt if you want to play as a local fed in TEW. But like I said... for WrestleSpi, the whole point is run the Indies and eventually make it big, so you'd want all those workers and feds put in so you can bust your ass and make it. A wannabe wrestler isn't going to start in JAPW or OVW in most cases, they're gonna be in small companies where less than a hundred fans come to every show.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Dolfanar]Actually Adam, THAT part actually bothers me. It's a little ambiguous. How does Height and Body Shape fit in exactly? If someone is 5'5 350 pounds... what is he? 6'11, 350? 6'11, 250?[/QUOTE] It's meant to be ambiguous. Remember, this system was designed specifically to be compatible with Wrestling Spirit, where the size of a wrestler is used specifically in conjunction with who can do what moves against what opponents. 95% of wrestlers have a very obvious fit, the reason it's intentionally ambiguous is for the 5% who have an odd combination. The example I used at the time was Giant Gonzalez. Believe it or not, his actual weight was only around the 400lb mark. If the size system was purely on weight, he'd actually be smaller than Earthquake. This is the reason the system needs to be ambiguous, as clearly due to their body shapes Earthquake can be slammed or taken up into a fireman's carry but there's no way you're going to do that to GG, as his shape is so weird. By making the system more than simply weights, you can correctly simulate that in the game. It doesn't matter so much in TEW, where weights don't have such a clear usage as in WreSpi, but the system has been kept so that the two games can easily be ported over, and sometime in the future perhaps even share the same database.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Ransik]A thought occured to me on having only about 1,000 workers in the game. What in the world would be the point in playing as any fed under the status of Cult? Regional would be pushing it, but there wouldn't be any workers you could financially sign and not go bankrupt if you want to play as a local fed in TEW. But like I said... for [B]WreSpi1[/B], the whole point is run the Indies and eventually make it big, so you'd want all those workers and feds put in so you can bust your ass and make it. A wannabe wrestler isn't going to start in JAPW or OVW in most cases, they're gonna be in small companies where less than a hundred fans come to every show.[/QUOTE] Just correcting your post as you don't know what's going to be in WreSpi2.

[Cold Cobra]

I can't wait to hear about WreSpi2. I loved playing the original. As for the TEW data issue, I don't mind. Me and my friend have been adding and taking away from the last RaveX set for months. We currently have taken away a load of Joshi feds and added a load of European feds, just so that game area can be active, as well as updated when ever one of us is starting a new game. It's worked out quite well actually!

[Guest Ransik]

Whoops... meant WS1. :P Anywhoo... if it's completely compatible hopefully that means they can just import everything and update it.