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Refusing to Turn


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The year is 2000. We are about to head into the Royal Rumble. Stone Cold is number one contender for the WWF Championship, but HBK believes he should be the number one contender as he pinned the champion, Triple H, clean in an elimination tag match at Armageddon. Austin is set to beat HBK on Raw, cementing himself as the top contender. He will then take the title from Triple H the following week on Raw. Triple H has a rematch at RR, and the frustrated HBK, who has just been eliminated last by The Rock in the RR match, appears, hits Austin with Sweet Chin Music and allows Trips to regain the title. I wanted this to lead into a Stone Cold/HBK feud that runs until Summerslam where Austin would eventually win the title from HBK who is scheduled to win the title at Judgment Day from The Rock. Problem is, HBK refuses to turn. He's making too much merchandise money.

 

That now leaves me in a quandary. Do I somehow shoehorn Triple H back into the title picture even though he has been champion since Unforgiven? Do I push Big Show into HBK's slot, book him like a monster heel and hope his weaker entertainment skills don't hinder ratings? Do I turn Kane, despite turning him face not long back, because he has proven he can get over (I got him to 97 pop last time I pushed him)? Do I turn Foley heel when he returns from injury at the Rumble and bring back Cactus Jack as he is the second most popular wrestler on my roster? Or do I force HBK to turn? I've never had a worker refuse a turn before, so I don't know the implications of forcing it through. HBK is flaky at the best of times, and my concern is that he runs off to WCW who are still financially successful but are only National because their main event scene still has the likes of Hogan, Sting and Savage, though they are aging. HBK defecting would be a bad loss as I can't seem to get Rock past 91 pop no matter how I book him, Undertaker never progresses past 89 and Triple H is stalled at 90. HBK is one of my top five draws, gains pop very easily and barely loses any. He hasn't held a title since Wrestlemania 14 and has lost every feud he's been in because I have to punish his behaviour, yet he is still more popular than all but two workers on my roster. Losing him could potentially knock me below WCW in the National Battles I'm currently winning in three regions.

 

Anyone forced a turn through or have they respected the worker and changed their plans? Anyone got any suggestions on what route I should take?

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<p>I've never had to force a turn, but it would no doubt drop his morale, and with HBK likely cause some locker room problems. Plus you said he already was having morale problems? And you worry he'll run to WCW? So I would keep him face and consider turning Stone Cold heel. Stone Cold can work both heel and face great and you would only have to do it for a year or so, then you could turn him back, maybe halfway through his title run. Punishing HBK here is tough, but maybe don't give him a Championship for like a year as punishment. You said he's one of your top pop guys anyways, so he'll easily go a year without a title while still remaining a top guy. He doesn't need the belt to be over.</p><p> </p><p>

You could even keep your future story arc with Austin beating HBK on raw, going on to defeate triple H for the title, only to get screwed by an upset HBK (who just got eliminated by the Rock in the rumble), which allows HHH to win it back. But this is where you switch it up, instead of that being what turned HBK, you keep HBK face and he comes out the next night after the rumble on Raw and challenges HHH to a match for the title. He cites the fact that he pinned him clean in the tag match but also that HHH wouldn't be champion if it wasn't for him and his actions to Stone Cold which lead to HHH regaining the title. You have triple h play the "friend" and agree to a match that night for the belt. But in the match, Stone Cold comes out and screws HBK and levels him, turning heel by helping HHH retain, because he loathes HBK more. Furthermore you could have HHH taunt HBK and tell him how he's never been on HHH's level and how could he ever thought he deserved a title shot, he's a chump and STSA will destroy you. This starts a loose alliance between HHH and Stone Cold, but also launched Stone Cold into the feud you were talking about. Also, HHH could come out the next night and say Stone Colds agreed not to fight me until he eliminates Shawn and ends his career, so I guess I have no one left, only for the Royal Rumble winner the Rock to show up and start his feud with HHH until Wrestlemania. If the rock is face and Stone Cold heel, then instead of HBK taking the strap off of the Rock at Armageddon, you just let the rock retain (maybe due to interference from Stone Cold). This leads to a triple threat at Summerslam with HBK, the Rock and Stone Cold for the Title which Stone Cold wins. You could even make this a double turn during or after the match and have Stone Cold return to face, while HBK finally goes heel (maybe at this point he is willing or you force him since your story line has finally played out). Also, a double turn could lead to another nice 6 month rivalry between HBK and Stone Cold now that their dispositions have been switched. HBK finally winning the title (after a year without one, for punishment reasons) by going full heel and doing whatever it takes to retain it!</p>

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I don't care about your fantasy booking so I didn't read it, but it really depends on their morale before the turn. Morale really tanks from refused turns, so make sure morale is high already. After the turn, give them a bonus to raise the morale. Now that the limit was raised significantly, it's not that time consuming.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><strong>I don't care about your fantasy booking so I didn't read it</strong>, but it really depends on their morale before the turn. Morale really tanks from refused turns, so make sure morale is high already. After the turn, give them a bonus to raise the morale. Now that the limit was raised significantly, it's not that time consuming.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Harsh.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't care about your fantasy booking so I didn't read it, but it really depends on their morale before the turn. Morale really tanks from refused turns, so make sure morale is high already. After the turn, give them a bonus to raise the morale. Now that the limit was raised significantly, it's not that time consuming.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Blimey nice to see we've got a friendly community here.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't care about your fantasy booking so I didn't read it, but it really depends on their morale before the turn. Morale really tanks from refused turns, so make sure morale is high already. After the turn, give them a bonus to raise the morale. Now that the limit was raised significantly, it's not that time consuming.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <span>http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/a9193944e6eaffdaa1bfb152845ea62f/http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Elluzive/damn1.jpg</span></p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DoubleA012" data-cite="DoubleA012" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've never had to force a turn, but it would no doubt drop his morale, and with HBK likely cause some locker room problems. Plus you said he already was having morale problems? And you worry he'll run to WCW? So I would keep him face and consider turning Stone Cold heel. Stone Cold can work both heel and face great and you would only have to do it for a year or so, then you could turn him back, maybe halfway through his title run. Punishing HBK here is tough, but maybe don't give him a Championship for like a year as punishment. You said he's one of your top pop guys anyways, so he'll easily go a year without a title while still remaining a top guy. He doesn't need the belt to be over.<p> </p><p> You could even keep your future story arc with Austin beating HBK on raw, going on to defeate triple H for the title, only to get screwed by an upset HBK (who just got eliminated by the Rock in the rumble), which allows HHH to win it back. But this is where you switch it up, instead of that being what turned HBK, you keep HBK face and he comes out the next night after the rumble on Raw and challenges HHH to a match for the title. He cites the fact that he pinned him clean in the tag match but also that HHH wouldn't be champion if it wasn't for him and his actions to Stone Cold which lead to HHH regaining the title. You have triple h play the "friend" and agree to a match that night for the belt. But in the match, Stone Cold comes out and screws HBK and levels him, turning heel by helping HHH retain, because he loathes HBK more. Furthermore you could have HHH taunt HBK and tell him how he's never been on HHH's level and how could he ever thought he deserved a title shot, he's a chump and STSA will destroy you. This starts a loose alliance between HHH and Stone Cold, but also launched Stone Cold into the feud you were talking about. Also, HHH could come out the next night and say Stone Colds agreed not to fight me until he eliminates Shawn and ends his career, so I guess I have no one left, only for the Royal Rumble winner the Rock to show up and start his feud with HHH until Wrestlemania. If the rock is face and Stone Cold heel, then instead of HBK taking the strap off of the Rock at Armageddon, you just let the rock retain (maybe due to interference from Stone Cold). This leads to a triple threat at Summerslam with HBK, the Rock and Stone Cold for the Title which Stone Cold wins. You could even make this a double turn during or after the match and have Stone Cold return to face, while HBK finally goes heel (maybe at this point he is willing or you force him since your story line has finally played out). Also, a double turn could lead to another nice 6 month rivalry between HBK and Stone Cold now that their dispositions have been switched. HBK finally winning the title (after a year without one, for punishment reasons) by going full heel and doing whatever it takes to retain it!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thank you for your reply and your opinion. However, Austin is my figurehead and is the most popular wrestler in the world at the moment. I'm not turning him. The only time I'd consider turning him would be if his pop started to decline and he was overtaken by someone more suitable for the figurehead role. I will go with your suggestion of keeping HBK face, though, and I will have to rework some storylines. I just find it hard to book a face HBK. I turned him because I was told he was growing stale and my main event scene was heel heavy. </p><p> </p><p> Anyway, thank you again for your response. If you have any other ideas, I'd love to read them.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dave E Mac" data-cite="Dave E Mac" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Blimey nice to see we've got a friendly community here.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The vast majority are decent people trying to enjoy the game. Don't know who that bloke is. Don't much care either.</p>
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Wait... refusing to turn is a thing? Oh boy, now I'm kinda worried because I've had Samoa Joe refuse to tweak his gimmick because he fears it might fail (and he has creative control so he was actually able to block it) and I'm planning a turn for him.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MinimiMax" data-cite="MinimiMax" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wait... refusing to turn is a thing? Oh boy, now I'm kinda worried because I've had Samoa Joe refuse to tweak his gimmick because he fears it might fail (and he has creative control so he was actually able to block it) and I'm planning a turn for him.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think they have to be at A popularity.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dave E Mac" data-cite="Dave E Mac" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What's the upper mid card looking like? Any potential break out stars there you could heavily push the next few months.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not really. I signed Angle, the Radicalz and Jericho in the past year, but none of them are popular enough to be main eventing yet. It would tank my ratings, I think. Making good progress with Angle, though, and I'm hoping a few more titles and some good performances in feuds will carry him over. I wanted him to be the guy who feuded with Austin after he finally gets the belt off HBK, so I'm pushing him hard.</p>
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<p>I had it on my 1987 WWF game. </p><p> </p><p>

It was Hogan, Piper and Bulldog v Heenan Family </p><p> </p><p>

Idea was for Piper to turn on Hogan/bulldog. Injuring Hogan, Hogan vacates title, King of the Ring crown a new champion. Piper... Hogan returns to beat Piper at big event. A nice,simple story. </p><p> </p><p>

But Piper refused to turn face, due to thinking he had a couple more years left as a face and was making a lot of merch money. </p><p> </p><p>

I used this bump in the road to change my storyline around and change the future. Using it a catalyst to do something I wouldn't normally do. </p><p> </p><p>

Bulldog turned on Hogan. 25 year old Bulldog. Who was in the group to eat pins managed to get super over. turned him heel. He beat up Hogan, injured him and defeated Piper for the title at the KOTR final.</p><p> </p><p>

Biggest Heel in 1987 WWF is a 25 year old Bulldog... well until Hogan returns and defeats him. But this has put Bulldog on the map and makes him the youngest WWF champion. </p><p> </p><p>

Point is, I wouldn't force it and risk upsetting people, see if you can twist things? change things around.</p>

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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Winter8905" data-cite="Winter8905" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I had it on my 1987 WWF game. <p> </p><p> It was Hogan, Piper and Bulldog v Heenan Family </p><p> </p><p> Idea was for Piper to turn on Hogan/bulldog. Injuring Hogan, Hogan vacates title, King of the Ring crown a new champion. Piper... Hogan returns to beat Piper at big event. A nice,simple story. </p><p> </p><p> But Piper refused to turn face, due to thinking he had a couple more years left as a face and was making a lot of merch money. </p><p> </p><p> I used this bump in the road to change my storyline around and change the future. Using it a catalyst to do something I wouldn't normally do. </p><p> </p><p> Bulldog turned on Hogan. 25 year old Bulldog. Who was in the group to eat pins managed to get super over. turned him heel. He beat up Hogan, injured him and defeated Piper for the title at the KOTR final.</p><p> </p><p> Biggest Heel in 1987 WWF is a 25 year old Bulldog... well until Hogan returns and defeats him. But this has put Bulldog on the map and makes him the youngest WWF champion. </p><p> </p><p> Point is, I wouldn't force it and risk upsetting people, see if you can twist things? change things around.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, I'm thinking that I might just take a shot with Big Show. He's one of my top draws because of his SQ and I cant turn Foley or Kane yet because it's too soon. So, against my instinct (because I can't stand him as a wrestler), I'll push Show and see where I can take him. He might end up being the top heel in my company for all I know.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jean-vic" data-cite="jean-vic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The year is 2000. We are about to head into the Royal Rumble. Stone Cold is number one contender for the WWF Championship, but HBK believes he should be the number one contender as he pinned the champion, Triple H, clean in an elimination tag match at Armageddon. Austin is set to beat HBK on Raw, cementing himself as the top contender. He will then take the title from Triple H the following week on Raw. Triple H has a rematch at RR, and the frustrated HBK, who has just been eliminated last by The Rock in the RR match, appears, hits Austin with Sweet Chin Music and allows Trips to regain the title. I wanted this to lead into a Stone Cold/HBK feud that runs until Summerslam where Austin would eventually win the title from HBK who is scheduled to win the title at Judgment Day from The Rock. Problem is, HBK refuses to turn. He's making too much merchandise money. <p> </p><p> That now leaves me in a quandary. Do I somehow shoehorn Triple H back into the title picture even though he has been champion since Unforgiven? Do I push Big Show into HBK's slot, book him like a monster heel and hope his weaker entertainment skills don't hinder ratings? Do I turn Kane, despite turning him face not long back, because he has proven he can get over (I got him to 97 pop last time I pushed him)? Do I turn Foley heel when he returns from injury at the Rumble and bring back Cactus Jack as he is the second most popular wrestler on my roster? Or do I force HBK to turn? I've never had a worker refuse a turn before, so I don't know the implications of forcing it through. HBK is flaky at the best of times, and my concern is that he runs off to WCW who are still financially successful but are only National because their main event scene still has the likes of Hogan, Sting and Savage, though they are aging. HBK defecting would be a bad loss as I can't seem to get Rock past 91 pop no matter how I book him, Undertaker never progresses past 89 and Triple H is stalled at 90. HBK is one of my top five draws, gains pop very easily and barely loses any. He hasn't held a title since Wrestlemania 14 and has lost every feud he's been in because I have to punish his behaviour, yet he is still more popular than all but two workers on my roster. Losing him could potentially knock me below WCW in the National Battles I'm currently winning in three regions. </p><p> </p><p> Anyone forced a turn through or have they respected the worker and changed their plans? Anyone got any suggestions on what route I should take?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Remember don't be afraid to do a face vs. face or heel vs. heel especially if the title is on the line. Peoples desire to become Champion should almost always be the driving factor for story line imo.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="hailthebulldog" data-cite="hailthebulldog" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Remember don't be afraid to do a face vs. face or heel vs. heel especially if the title is on the line. Peoples desire to become Champion should almost always be the driving factor for story line imo.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought that had a negative impact on ratings?</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jean-vic" data-cite="jean-vic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I thought that had a negative impact on ratings?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It does, but my understanding is that it is very small.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jean-vic" data-cite="jean-vic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I thought that had a negative impact on ratings?</div></blockquote><p> The best rating I've got in my current save came from a face vs face match so it's not really enough to be worried about.</p>
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I almost wonder if there is a threshold where face vs face doesn't matter depending on factors that I'm not aware of. Sometimes I run it and the rating is great and I see nothing negative about face/heel divide in the dirt sheet. Other times they seem to score a letter grade below what I expected and I read in the dirt sheet that the match was penalized. I've only tried heel vs heel once and it was a couple of versions ago. It was a disaster.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="dubb93" data-cite="dubb93" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="43826" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I almost wonder if there is a threshold where face vs face doesn't matter depending on factors that I'm not aware of. Sometimes I run it and the rating is great and I see nothing negative about face/heel divide in the dirt sheet. Other times they seem to score a letter grade below what I expected and I read in the dirt sheet that the match was penalized. I've only tried heel vs heel once and it was a couple of versions ago. It was a disaster.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Maybe in ring ability and pop override the penalty to such an extent that it does not matter, whereas the penalty has more effect as you move down the card. All I can think of.</p>
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