Ratings make no sense

[MainOffender]

I think what they mean by that, is that the CVerse model of stats is what people try and strive for. It is how the game is designed to run based on the wrestlers in it. So when you have 20 guys at say 90-100 pop then it throws off the balance. Yes modders should try and strive for the real world or time period, but also keep in mind the balance of the workers so as to still make it a challenge and not unbalance the mod.

 

I like the CVerse, but I have a hard time seeing it as the model for all databases and I don't think that's how it's meant to be used. It's a set of numbers to run through the simulator, like any other. Now, those numbers have been adjusted to work with new features by the creator of those features, which always makes it seem to work cleaner than most mods at first, but eventually the community catches up. It's certainly not perfectly balanced or made to work immaculately. If it was, we wouldn't see issues like the ACPW fans booing half their rosters or all the stables splitting up.

 

On-topic...

 

Big problem is also when you use some of the lower members of Bullet Club or CHAOS for the six man with the big stars and the match goes 20 minutes + like you told me the game says they are overused? That's bs even people like Gedo and YOSHI-HASHI get in these main events in real life.

 

Those six-man tags NJPW runs will get penalized, either from overusing the undercard guys or underuitilizing the top card guys. That seems logical to me? Like, you don't want those matches outshining the stuff at the top of the card that actually matters. I still think those scores you posted originally are a bit lower than I'd expect to see. What other penalties are you seeing in the road agent notes? What scores are you getting from the wrestlers individually?

 

(Also, if you feel like a mod has shorted somebody for stats, go into the editor and change it. There's no shame in it!)

[Jaded]

I still think those scores you posted originally are a bit lower than I'd expect to see. What other penalties are you seeing in the road agent notes? What scores are you getting from the wrestlers individually?

 

I don't think many of the wrestlers are likely to have much pop in America, where the show is being held, which probably explains more than any road agent notes do.

[MainOffender]

I don't think many of the wrestlers are likely to have much pop in America, where the show is being held, which probably explains more than any road agent notes do.

 

Yeah, but New Year's Dash was held in Japan. I'd expect his scores for that to be more like what Questlove posted. Anyway, some good advice here. And also the big caveat that conversions are screwy and mods aren't yet finished, so there's a lot of reasons for ratings to "make no sense."

[fusionfreak]

RW mods are so subjective. Just a quick discussion on Discord we had a week ago proved it, we had wildly different Star Quality numbers for Jeff Hardy, Jericho etc.. That's also one of the reason why I never play RW - the mods very rarely project the stats that I think are the correct ones. Everyone has 10-20 points higher stats than they should, pretty much.

 

I can always kind of guess when a RW mod is made by someone that likes high-fly type of wrestling and has a bias for it because every single powerhouse wrestler has they're stats set 15 to 25 points lower than they should be. I've noticed most that like high-fly or technical wrestlers seem to be biased against the powerhouse guys for some reason. Anyway, it can hard to get Goldberg over in some of those mods.

 

This is why I've always made my own.

By me, for me.

 

I tweak several things that I disagree with even on C-Verse. Not to saying my ideas are better but there are several points I don't like in C-Verse that just don't work for me.

[TeflonBilly]

You realise CV is entirely fictional? The mod makers goal isn't to model the CV, it's to model real world or the time period as best as possible.

 

 

 

Everyone has a subjective opinion about a real life subject, that is true. But that isn't the problem with real world mods.

 

It's a very tired meme on the community, treating people with disdain and dismissal for using modded content. It's just as valid a way to play the game or there wouldn't be an editor to mod to begin with.

 

The info in a mod should reflect the time period, but the balance should reflect the Cverse. If you're playing 1st Edition AD&D, and you see a really badass sword in a movie, you obviously want your version to reflect the awesomeness of the blade. But you still need to balance it somewhere in the range of short sword(1d6 dam)/long sword(1d8 dam)/2-handed sword(1d12 dam), because that's the balance that the game engine is built around.

[Genadi]

The info in a mod should reflect the time period, but the balance should reflect the Cverse. If you're playing 1st Edition AD&D, and you see a really badass sword in a movie, you obviously want your version to reflect the awesomeness of the blade. But you still need to balance it somewhere in the range of short sword(1d6 dam)/long sword(1d8 dam)/2-handed sword(1d12 dam), because that's the balance that the game engine is built around.

 

Of all the things to use as a comparison D&D?

 

Let's use a far better comparison like football. If FM used a fictional database.... Average scores of matches for an EPL season are 8-6 and when complaints are made players are told working as intended because it's a fictional db.

 

If RW modders were to model balance on CV most smaller companies would grow far more rapidly than they do in reality. Far more stars would be made than in reality due to hundreds of workers having OP stats. That's only stats, I've not touched the issue of CV creeping into every corner of the game. Just last week a dev when discussing broadcasters said something like "It's not 100% realistic they're made for CV". So CV is now changing the definition and way simple things like broadcasters work.

 

I also suggest anyone interested in this topic to do some research on it because there's a lot of history. See how the CV evolved, how it was used in one TEW in particular to plug over some very obvious holes in the game.

 

Whether you enjoy it or not shouldn't be questioned. Has it been overall good or bad for the game should be questioned.

[absolutelyridiculous]

The info in a mod should reflect the time period, but the balance should reflect the Cverse. If you're playing 1st Edition AD&D, and you see a really badass sword in a movie, you obviously want your version to reflect the awesomeness of the blade. But you still need to balance it somewhere in the range of short sword(1d6 dam)/long sword(1d8 dam)/2-handed sword(1d12 dam), because that's the balance that the game engine is built around.

 

This is something that might be unique to TEW mods. I know I work on Football Manager retro database mods, and because most of my data is a direct port from old FM games that used different standards for player ability, the players are more highly rated in my mods than they are in the real game. But it doesn't matter that much! If Arsenal is better, and Charlton is better, but Arsenal is still much better than Charlton, it's basically fine, and maybe people will enjoy the screenshots of super-players and the match engine looking a little more arcadey.

 

But in TEW, a company with 80 popularity and top workers who are 60s at their best stats is impossible. You can even make the argument that the current WWE roster has bad entertainment skills compared to the big CVerse feds, but in general your data in a TEW mod needs to match the CVerse.

[TeflonBilly]

Of all the things to use as a comparison D&D?

 

Let's use a far better comparison like football. If FM used a fictional database.... Average scores of matches for an EPL season are 8-6 and when complaints are made players are told working as intended because it's a fictional db.

 

If RW modders were to model balance on CV most smaller companies would grow far more rapidly than they do in reality. Far more stars would be made than in reality due to hundreds of workers having OP stats. That's only stats, I've not touched the issue of CV creeping into every corner of the game. Just last week a dev when discussing broadcasters said something like "It's not 100% realistic they're made for CV". So CV is now changing the definition and way simple things like broadcasters work.

 

I also suggest anyone interested in this topic to do some research on it because there's a lot of history. See how the CV evolved, how it was used in one TEW in particular to plug over some very obvious holes in the game.

 

Whether you enjoy it or not shouldn't be questioned. Has it been overall good or bad for the game should be questioned.

 

I'm a nerd whose screen name and avatar come from a gaming comic book. Sue me.

 

I enjoy the Cverse, but prefer mods. I'm a big fan of yours. But my point remains true. The game engine was balanced using the Cverse as a base. The more a mod differs from the Cverse, the more likely that wonky things will happen, especially long-term.

[Genadi]

I'm a nerd whose screen name and avatar come from a gaming comic book. Sue me.

 

I enjoy the Cverse, but prefer mods. I'm a big fan of yours. But my point remains true. The game engine was balanced using the Cverse as a base. The more a mod differs from the Cverse, the more likely that wonky things will happen, especially long-term.

 

The D&D comment was because it was an awful comparison, not an insult

 

Your second point isn't true though, I can tell you firsthand the more a RW mod clones CV the more wonky things will happen. I've been praised for balance in my mods, I disregarded CV balance and comparisons many years ago. I had to do so because I saw the CV gradually evolve into something that didn't mirror RW at all.

[Phreak]

When a large percentage, I'd assume even a majority percentage, play a game because of Real World mods, then Real World mods should be heavily considered when developing said game.

 

They should be, but unfortunately that's not the case. Adam has always defaulted to "The game is how it is, it's not meant to be an accurate reflection of real life, etc." That usually stemming from people requesting features or changes to features to better reflect said reality.