Blood Options

[Darkness94]

I'd like for there to be a blood option when setting up matches and angles. Perhaps other features to this can be added to this. The system could be similar to workers willingness to take dangerous bumps. Some wrestlers will be willing to bleed all the time, some wrestlers will only bleed on important shows, and some wrestlers will refuse to bleed at all. A player could be barred from choosing these options if their product or broadcaster they work with is against blood.

[St. Templar]

I do think that an addition of "blood options" (sounds like an urban fantasy novel) is a tremendous idea.

I would also suggest a default position of a company allowing blood or not allowing it (generally), along the lines of spinal impact moves. A note that "Worker X bled hardway" or "Wrestler X bladed even though it's against company policy" (or however you might want to put it) would be a cool addition and reflect real world situations. Of course, I would also include a Road Agent note (which the worker could respond to, as you outline) to allow blood in that match. We've seen all sorts of situations where WWE and WCW back in the day would allow bleeding in limited situations (and where it was on every frickin' show).

St.T

 

[Darkness94]

Excellent. I think this adds a lot of depth to the game.

[MisterSocko]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:13 PM, Darkness94 said:

The system could be similar to workers willingness to take dangerous bumps.

Well two big differences are that bleeding can be 100% accidental, and that to my knowledge most wrestlers are willing to do a blade job because there's no risk of breaking you skull/neck/spine/leg doing it.

In game terms I can't really think of how you'd make it work without making it unrealistic or tedious.

I mean, if a wrestler bleeds accidentally, does it still make the match better? Can you create a new star out of absolutely anyone regardless of their promo skills and charisma just by putting them in a match against Nia Jax?

If you do a deathmatch do you have to manually add a "blood" road agent note for every participant? And does it make the match better considering everybody always bleeds during deathmatches?

If you redo the Wrestlemania 13 card, don't add the "blood" note for the Austin/Hart match but add it to the four way tag match, will you get results like "Austin losing without bleeding really made him look weak and hurt the match quality, but on the other hand, great news, fans are now really into that Phil LaFon guy, what an A+ bleeder that guy is"?

[Skummy]

36 minutes ago, MisterSocko said:

Well two big differences are that bleeding can be 100% accidental, and that to my knowledge most wrestlers are willing to do a blade job because there's no risk of breaking you skull/neck/spine/leg doing it.

In game terms I can't really think of how you'd make it work without making it unrealistic or tedious.

I mean, if a wrestler bleeds accidentally, does it still make the match better? Can you create a new star out of absolutely anyone regardless of their promo skills and charisma just by putting them in a match against Nia Jax?

If you do a deathmatch do you have to manually add a "blood" road agent note for every participant? And does it make the match better considering everybody always bleeds during deathmatches?

If you redo the Wrestlemania 13 card, don't add the "blood" note for the Austin/Hart match but add it to the four way tag match, will you get results like "Austin losing without bleeding really made him look weak and hurt the match quality, but on the other hand, great news, fans are now really into that Phil LaFon guy, what an A+ bleeder that guy is"?

All of this are nuances to how it could work, not drawbacks, though. 

Austin bleeding in that match got over because he's Steve Austin. The blood wasn't what made it work, it was his selling and charisma combined with the blood, at the end of an all-time great match. A lesser worker, without Bret and Austin's psychology stats, Austin's selling, and Austin's charisma, wouldn't have made it mean as much, and wouldn't have got the associated bonuses/perks, if we're considering this in TEW terms.

The same goes for Becky Lynch bleeding after the brawl with Nia Jax - if she'd covered her face and meekly rushed to the back, she wouldn't have got any more over from it, and might actually have risked killing her credibility. But because she made it work, it was a star-making moment. 

It's a risk/reward system. A wrestler bleeding accidentally could make a match better, or it could slow it down and make it much worse as wrestlers/referees stop the match to try and deal with the bleeding, or slow things down while they figure out how bad things are and get things back on track. Maybe it does make the match better, but even then, the broadcaster doesn't want blood on their show, and it affects that relationship as well. It's far from as simple as an "add blood to improve matches/make stars" button.

 

And then there's overexposure - blood starts to mean less if it's in every match on the card, or if you use it in every main event every week. The extent to which you can get away with can depend on the company's product - a hardcore promotion will expect more blood, so you can get away with using it more, but its effects won't be as strong because it's less of an "event". A family-friendly promotion wouldn't want blood at all, so you'd risk turning your crowd off if someone bleeds in a match on that show. Any number of products falling in the middle can benefit from blood used sparingly, but not to excess. Full-blown deathmatch promotions would likely get no real perks from blood at all, because it's expected as a matter of course, but you might be penalised if nobody bleeds across a show. 

[azzak]

18 hours ago, Skummy said:

All of this are nuances to how it could work, not drawbacks, though. 

Austin bleeding in that match got over because he's Steve Austin. The blood wasn't what made it work, it was his selling and charisma combined with the blood, at the end of an all-time great match. A lesser worker, without Bret and Austin's psychology stats, Austin's selling, and Austin's charisma, wouldn't have made it mean as much, and wouldn't have got the associated bonuses/perks, if we're considering this in TEW terms.

The same goes for Becky Lynch bleeding after the brawl with Nia Jax - if she'd covered her face and meekly rushed to the back, she wouldn't have got any more over from it, and might actually have risked killing her credibility. But because she made it work, it was a star-making moment. 

It's a risk/reward system. A wrestler bleeding accidentally could make a match better, or it could slow it down and make it much worse as wrestlers/referees stop the match to try and deal with the bleeding, or slow things down while they figure out how bad things are and get things back on track. Maybe it does make the match better, but even then, the broadcaster doesn't want blood on their show, and it affects that relationship as well. It's far from as simple as an "add blood to improve matches/make stars" button.

 

And then there's overexposure - blood starts to mean less if it's in every match on the card, or if you use it in every main event every week. The extent to which you can get away with can depend on the company's product - a hardcore promotion will expect more blood, so you can get away with using it more, but its effects won't be as strong because it's less of an "event". A family-friendly promotion wouldn't want blood at all, so you'd risk turning your crowd off if someone bleeds in a match on that show. Any number of products falling in the middle can benefit from blood used sparingly, but not to excess. Full-blown deathmatch promotions would likely get no real perks from blood at all, because it's expected as a matter of course, but you might be penalised if nobody bleeds across a show. 

But the fact there are all these nuances is the drawback. You're asking for a lot of detail to go into what should in theory be such a minor part of the game. If the game was at the level of detail that football manager is for example, then it would make sense, but as it is there would be way too much energy expended into balancing the use of blood for what should be of little consequence. The fact you've said blood didn't have a material impact on the Austin/Hart match when it is arguably one of the most memorable bleeding moments in mainstream wrestling outlines that. 

Of course there are lightning in a bottle moments such as Becky/Nia, but arguably a 'good improvisation by Becky Lynch after injury' road agent note covers this in how TEW works currently. (NB: if anything this is an argument for that road agent note to be expanded to both segments and not just matches and the wrestler who gets injured not just the opponent.) 

Overexposure would need to be a factor in much more prevalent issues before blood in my opinion, such as Nicky Champion in C-Verse or Charlotte Flair in real life constantly winning/holding titles and fans getting sick of it. Fans turning on faces or embracing and adoring heels forcing a booker into deciding whether to stay the course or make the turn is another fan reaction more important than blood apathy. 

Again, there's much more pressing things that would need to be added for broadcaster demands before blood. Wanting stars on X amount of shows per month/year or on screen for X amount of minutes per show or stars exclusive to the show they air in the event of brand splits etc.

And none of that even goes into the game mechanics of actually booking blood in matches. What if I'm booking a company where blood has little to no impact? (Ignoring Jon Moxley for a moment) I'd argue blood doesn't impact an AEW match. There have been moments where wrestlers bled in those matches that were good enough to be considered a spot, but not significant enough to impact the quality of the match. In that sense you're essentially asking me to overthink a wrestler performing a plancha, or Bryan Danielson performing his yes kicks. They're going to pop the crowd, but a Bryan match is still going to score the same with or without them. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're asking for and why, that level of immersion would be incredible. But as I hope I've outlined above, it just does not work in isolation. It would only work in a game with a level of detail where it would account for 1% of gameplay, again football manager levels of depth, if you know that game. And that's an AAA game with a whole studio behind it. So I can't see the benefit of going through such game changing mechanics just for a little colour (pun intended). 

[Skummy]

I don't see it as requiring that level of detail at all. There's no reason it needs to be any more complex than a "Crazy Bump" note, or a risk value on a match, in how it relates to the worker, the match quality, and the broadcaster. After that, it's basically a roll of the dice. 

My point on nuance is that it needs to be - as I feel the majority of features in TEW should be - a balance of risk and reward, rather than the "instantly make this match more interesting" button that some posters were interpreting it as. It needn't be complex.

[MisterSocko]

I think what he was trying to say is, is such a minute thing with such an infinitesimal effect and so little leeway, it seems kind of pointless.

[MisterSocko]

I think it's kind of like when people suggest adding ring announcers and try to justify it with "yeah remember that time when Lilian said a name wrong" or "they would always bring back the Fink back for WrestleMania" and "Michael Buffer doing ring announcing meant the match was special", and it's like yeah and then the match was fine, or bad, or great, and Lilian or Fink or Buffer didn't make that much of a difference one way or another, in the game stuff like that is already covered by companies' Production Levels, so we probably don't need ring announcers in TEW.