TEW IX Developer's Journal Discussion Thread

[Larrikn]

my only take on the AI stuff, is the same as my general take on it. I don't mind the idea of AI being used for smaller/personal/independent projects that would otherwise never happen. But think that there becomes a certain responsibility for larger companies to hire people to fulfil services.  I think it's good that this has been a pretty healthy discussion on the topic here. I'll see how i feel when it comes the playing CVerse but it won't affect my desire to buy TWIX.

[Shianne_EB]

3 hours ago, Self said:

Personally I think if someone is asking you to make artwork for a commercial product, they should be paying you for it. If they can't afford to pay fairly, maybe their game doesn't deserve art.

TEW (or more specifically the Cverss, which is of arguable importance to general fans) has been largely illustrated via community work, but there's a difference between asking to use some of your previously done work (I allowed Adam to use my stuff in the past) and asking for new images for free.

Value yourself and your time.

I do value my time, which is why I also accept commissions on the side and yadda yadda. But I am the CVerse's #1 fan (Keith Vegas is the greatest creation ever), and the entire reason I've learned this skill was to make renders for this game. If Adam wanted me to render as much of it as I could in an 18 month timeframe, I'd do it no questions asked - with pay or not. 

3 hours ago, EdJames said:

I had a brief look at the re-render project and I don’t think any of the artists has managed to exceed 700 unique characters images over the course of 14 years. Shows the size of the task given the commitment and longevity many have shown.
 

The # of unique character renders I have rendered in the last year or so (with breaks and also while working on side projects unrelated to TEW), including personal use renders and CV re-renders. To suggest no artist is able to exceed over 700 unique renders just because you looked at the re-render project briefly is silly and absurd.

[Aidenw723]

I'm very excited for this new edition. But without trying to spoil as much as possible, how many more products will there be, or will we cover that in the dev journal

[xzommer]

7 hours ago, Lukin said:

I'm not shaking the "i'm not gonna buy it" stick at the game; hell I only bought 2020 on June 21 and I'm probably going to buy this one right away because the depth is so impressive. But the *interactive* parts of the game are very *un*impressive. The real wrestling match is navigating the UI. It's a bit of a drag to see that the new game is built on the old.

I believe this goes hand-in-hand with my previous comments about how there needs to be more graphical representations. I don't think the UI is necessarily terrible, but it could really use some fine-tuning and (in regards to my previous post) additional flair.

At some point, whether it's TEW IX or TEW XX, the game is gonna be crammed with complex mechanics and extensive stats (even more so than it is now), with very little accessibility towards navigation.

[daddytorgo1]

1 hour ago, Larrikn said:

my only take on the AI stuff, is the same as my general take on it. I don't mind the idea of AI being used for smaller/personal/independent projects that would otherwise never happen. But think that there becomes a certain responsibility for larger companies to hire people to fulfil services.  I think it's good that this has been a pretty healthy discussion on the topic here. I'll see how i feel when it comes the playing CVerse but it won't affect my desire to buy TWIX.

GDS isn't a "larger company" though. We're talking a niche of a niche when it comes to TEW as a project people. 

[Aidenw723]

I also wanted to leave my thoughts on the new features I'm seeing,

For booking teams and extra roles, I'm genuinely stoked to finally see Vince Russo in a team with Jim Cornette, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, and Eric Bischoff.

For geo tags, I like the idea, as it adds more realism.

For the AI render, I'm honestly very neutral on this. So while I won't enter the issue about the whole AI thing, If you prefer one or the other, or if you'd rather get paid or are fine with doing it for free, you do you. That's all I'll say to not get into a conflict.

[SomeDude03]

Haven't played in a long enough time that I'm now on a laptop that doesn't have 2020, and I've forgotten the password to my original account. I've recently been getting the bug again though, so when I saw this announcement I was ecstatic. 

Anyway, I sure do hope none of my favourites have gotten into scandals over the 2 year time-skip. 

The new backstage/booking features sound great by the way! Already getting some ideas for what I plan on doing as my first long term game.

Edited July 4 by SomeDude03
Forgot to say this part

[Fleisch]

Adam has said he will release the original pictures for those who want it, the consequence to that is you will have to wait until those with DAZ and the assets create the gaps. The arguing over ethical use of AI is pointless because it is done.

I dont mind AI renders but Ive spent ages finding pics on the blue bg that I like so I'll create some AI images on the blue for any new characters until better DAZ created options come out. Thats freedom of choice - its not [Edited] - you can edit, mix, switch and change things to your liking when it comes to the pictures.

 

[Bandiusha]

I tried running the game on Linux without success before. Is there a way to make the game somehow compatible, or at least can you let us now what libraries / tools are needed to run it on Linux?

[Big Roguey]

2 minutes ago, Fleisch said:

Adam has said he will release the original pictures for those who want it, the consequence to that is you will have to wait until those with DAZ and the assets create the gaps. The arguing over ethical use of AI is pointless because it is done.

I dont mind AI renders but Ive spent ages finding pics on the blue bg that I like so I'll create some AI images on the blue for any new characters until better DAZ created options come out. Thats freedom of choice - its not North Korea - you can edit, mix, switch and change things to your liking when it comes to the pictures.

 

I don't think that the North Korea line is needed here. Or that the suggested fix to people's concerns over AI renders is to .... offer a pack that has AI renders on the original background?

[Fleisch]

49 minutes ago, Big Roguey said:

I don't think that the North Korea line is needed here. Or that the suggested fix to people's concerns over AI renders is to .... offer a pack that has AI renders on the original background?

My apologies - it was a joke. I have edited it.

And I neither suggested nor am I offering anything to anyone. I said what I will be doing (quite clearly) with my own game to show we all have a choice. So unsure where you got the "offer" from.

[Shooltra]

I love the new calendar! It really feels like it will help fleshing out the world and I especially love that there will be a greater sense of history, really making it feel like a changing world.

[ViperVenom]

On 7/2/2024 at 5:16 PM, Chikbot said:

No, he literally said in the FAQ in the first post that this game is built off the same interface as 2020

To be more clear i meant more graphically for the skins, not necessarily the full interface. I'm just thinking more modern skin styles like modders create?

[wyldekr]

17 hours ago, foolinc said:

As it's already been pointed out there are a lot of issues with AI, especially Midjourney, from standpoints of legal and ethical concerns. 

On top of that using AI renders also makes it near impossible to keep a level of quality and consistency of an image of a particular wreslter. Like I understand TEW X isn't really on your radar, but like if you wanted to produce that game or even a mid TEW C-Verse mod to get us to say 2025 and have a wrestler with a gimmick change (or even just changing their expression from a smile to a frown) - the AI is going to split out an image that at best looks like a relative of the wrestler from the previous image.

Feels to me like if you wanted consistency from the C-Verse the easiest method would have been just to decide on a style of render and make sure anyone that was paid to make them followed that style guide. The Thunderverse has been around from multiple games and has always kept the level of consistency I'm guessing you were going for.

I apologise if this comes off as blunt but that isn't even close to being remotely true, as someone who has posted several new renders in the AI thread that act as updates to previously made renders it is not a difficult task.

[Spoons]

Being able to mass-edit when contracts start is a godsend for database makers like myself, especially when you want to take an older DB and up it by a few years, and don't want to sit around making every contract start a few years later by hand. 😛 (Trust me, as someone who's done that, this will save a lot of hassle!)

 

The calendar system is nice too, but as per usual, I've gotten more excited about one of the lesser announcements today than the big one. 😛

Though it will make some things more realistic and interesting. Like having a show take place on "The Last Sunday of the month", which could make it Sunday week 3 or Sunday week 4, and will not necessarily be the final day of the month like it is now.

Edited July 4 by Spoons

[EdJames]

Real world calendar is HUGE 👏🏻

[Dogking]

Hey Adam if you can see this, I want to first say, I am so hyped for IX. The TEW series have been my favorite wrestling games for nearly a decade.

I do want to ask though, how will worker unhappiness work for MDE's like say Best Of The Super Juniors? That's a multi-day tournament that typically has no Heavyweights on the shows. So will all Heavyweights be really pissed off?

[Dogking]

To those who make mods, who's gonna be making a WCW Lives-esq mod? My friend and I want to try that out next.

[Astil]

Happy for the folks who have been wanting the calender forever! Seems like a great add.

[FellaLibby]

FINALLY THE CAL HAS COME BACK! TO MY WRESTLING SIMULATION!

[maxieboyyy]

Yes, this game will be a day 1 buy for me. The realistic calendar future was one of my biggest wishes.

 

About the whole AI discussion that has been going on. If the art is generated in such a way where no other artists has their work stolen than i truly dont get the problem. I feel like the original pictures would be the base for the ai design making it no harm done in my eyes. If I would stop using every program or product that has an affiliation with a company that is questionable then I could throw away my entire pc and probably most items in my house.

 

One thing that does worry me are the reactions from guys like thewho to the new features. I play cornelleverse as well as real world mods and seeing one of the more important mod makers upset about some of the changes makes me anxious of further decrease to the modding community which this series honestly can't have in my eyes. I dont make mods myself so my question for mod makers is: are you guys excited, or does this turn you away from the game?

[MadsMC]

So pleased at the announcement of a new game! I'm really happy about the real world calendar too! In regards to title lineages, I assume it will be updated to reflect the exact date and month of the title win/title loss, as opposed to the week, month and year (so 1st January 2022, instead of Wk 1, January 2022). Does this mean it will also keep track of the amount of days that previous champions had held it for, or will it still just show the amount of days for the current champion?

[Big Roguey]

5 minutes ago, maxieboyyy said:

 

One thing that does worry me are the reactions from guys like thewho to the new features. I play cornelleverse as well as real world mods and seeing one of the more important mod makers upset about some of the changes makes me anxious of further decrease to the modding community which this series honestly can't have in my eyes. I dont make mods myself so my question for mod makers is: are you guys excited, or does this turn you away from the game?

It's been four days and we're probably not even into the thick of things being announced. It's premature at this point (imo) for anyone thinking about modding to be making a stance about what will/will not affect them modding (not to say that people can't react to reveals though just in case I've worded my thoughts there in a manner that can be misconstrued). That's something for when the demo drops and we can all play around with the editor. 

[Mammoth]

25 minutes ago, maxieboyyy said:

One thing that does worry me are the reactions from guys like thewho to the new features. I play cornelleverse as well as real world mods and seeing one of the more important mod makers upset about some of the changes makes me anxious of further decrease to the modding community which this series honestly can't have in my eyes. I dont make mods myself so my question for mod makers is: are you guys excited, or does this turn you away from the game?

I'm super excited. If you're afraid of hard work, you shouldn't be making modifications anyway. 😅 Also, it's intriguing that in todays announcement Adam said: "As before, there are tools to help with this task and these will be discussed in a future entry." That sounds, to me, like there's something in the pipeline that isn't just more filters or mass edit options, because why would they be an announcement? So yeah, I'm excited about getting my fingers into even more detail, and also intrigued whether Adam has found a way to make it easier too.

[Peppermint Rage]

2 hours ago, Fleisch said:

Adam has said he will release the original pictures for those who want it, the consequence to that is you will have to wait until those with DAZ and the assets create the gaps. The arguing over ethical use of AI is pointless because it is done.

I dont mind AI renders but Ive spent ages finding pics on the blue bg that I like so I'll create some AI images on the blue for any new characters until better DAZ created options come out. Thats freedom of choice - its not [Edited] - you can edit, mix, switch and change things to your liking when it comes to the pictures.

 

for me, and it seems like a lot of people, it's not about weather or not we have a choice (though the render images being released with gaps for the new characters means it's not exactly an even choice) it's the fact that this kind of AI stuff is a problem, they're all trained on stolen art and are regularly being used to cut costs on paying artists. I don't even like it when it's free stuff because it still promotes these tools with so many issues, but I can largely move on and ignore it, but when it's a part of a product for profit, it bothers me, and frankly even if I never used the default universe (which I do) it would still lose my purchase as I don't want to support that. to the people saying variations of "it's pointless because it's too late anyway" maybe your right, in which case the game has lost my buy and likely others, if it is walked back even if that meant a dreaded delay, I'd be interested. at the end of the day a choice was made, and people have every right to have a problem with a choice they don't like.