Overrated CVerse Workers

[Tiberious]

16 hours ago, Devilb0y said:

I think my approach to this has to be looking at in-universe overrated workers since the players don't really tend to overrate anyone, and I think the two biggest culprits of this are Rocky Golden and Nicky Champion. Nicky is good in the ring but doesn't have the psychology a 37-year-old multiple time World Champion should have, and Rocky Golden can't sell, has mediocre athleticism and is pretty unexciting in the ring. Both guys are basically carried by the innertia of their own popularity at this stage and I personally hate having a definitive "Guy" in a company (as Rocky and Nicky are in their respective feds) who has glaring holes in their skillset. To misquote Ric Flair: to be The Man, you need to BE The Man, and neither of them are complete enough for that.

I guess I have a different philosophy because in my opinion getting to that level of popularity is almost a skill in itself. Major companies across the world have given mega pushes to lots of guys, but most never end up reaching the kind of heights that Champion and Golden have gotten to. Sure there are guys with better stats, but 99 out of 100 of those guys won't ever get to that level even if you had them beat Nicky Champion and Rocky Golden clean as a sheet. Like sure you can say that Kirk Jameson has better stats than Nicky Champion and should be in his spot, but in at least 9 games out of 10 you ain't going to get Kirk Jameson to 91 pop across in the US no matter how hard you push him, and that popularity will make guys like Nicky and Rocky deliver ratings that others can't.

As another example Valiant on paper has a very similar skillset to Nicky Champion and Rocky Golden, but despite winning the title twice and being crowned champion on "one of the most watched PPVs of all time" he never got close to the level of popularity to either one despite being given a similar push. Aaron Andrews is who TCW tried to push as their ace after Rocky Golden left but he's never gotten to the same level of popularity despite those efforts.

I'd argue someone like Running Wolf is way more overrated than Champion. He's a step behind Champion in just about every area, but because he became his tag team partner he rode his coattails to become the 2nd most popular face in the company and got an 8 month world title reign; which I can only assume happened because Champion needed time off or something.

[Devilb0y]

5 hours ago, Tiberious said:

I guess I have a different philosophy because in my opinion getting to that level of popularity is almost a skill in itself. Major companies across the world have given mega pushes to lots of guys, but most never end up reaching the kind of heights that Champion and Golden have gotten to. Sure there are guys with better stats, but 99 out of 100 of those guys won't ever get to that level even if you had them beat Nicky Champion and Rocky Golden clean as a sheet. Like sure you can say that Kirk Jameson has better stats than Nicky Champion and should be in his spot, but in at least 9 games out of 10 you ain't going to get Kirk Jameson to 91 pop across in the US no matter how hard you push him, and that popularity will make guys like Nicky and Rocky deliver ratings that others can't.

As another example Valiant on paper has a very similar skillset to Nicky Champion and Rocky Golden, but despite winning the title twice and being crowned champion on "one of the most watched PPVs of all time" he never got close to the level of popularity to either one despite being given a similar push. Aaron Andrews is who TCW tried to push as their ace after Rocky Golden left but he's never gotten to the same level of popularity despite those efforts.

I'd argue someone like Running Wolf is way more overrated than Champion. He's a step behind Champion in just about every area, but because he became his tag team partner he rode his coattails to become the 2nd most popular face in the company and got an 8 month world title reign; which I can only assume happened because Champion needed time off or something.

That's definitely true, popularity cap and growth rate are de facto skills and have value. There's no denying that Rocky and Champion will sell more merch than just about anyone else in the world, but I tend to look at things bell-to-bell rather than financially (possibly since the financials in TEW historically haven't been THAT important or difficult to overcome). In that comparison I take the view that if a guy like Spencer Spade or Hollywood Bret Starr can get a match rating just as high as Rocky while having a popularity cap 10 (or more) points lower, without having the limitations of who they can be booked against or how long they can go for, then they're the better candidate for being the top guy.

 

Definitely agree on Running Wolf though. He seems like a Brutus Beefcake type; how he won a world title I will never know.

[alpha2117]

In what world is a guy with 82 SQ Brutus Beefcake? 😉

I mean he's not stellar in ring but lets not pretend he cant Main Event.

[Devilb0y]

The Booty Man had the X factor, brother.

[alpha2117]

7 minutes ago, Devilb0y said:

The Booty Man had the X factor, brother.

Well the refs threw up the X symbol I guess.

[Shooltra]

Running Wolf would remind me of WWF Lex Luger ( with Rocky Golden being what if Lex Luger was the wrestler WCW wanted him to be ). Nicky Champion is a 6'6 Native American? Look, Running Wolf is a 6'6 Native American, which means he will be just as big if we push him. He can work in theory but in practice, that just doesn't work and looking at his bio, despite not having the attribute, it seems like he will be much better off as a heel and rival of Nicky which is where he will get to that final stage ( and might be why USPW would consider someone having a 77 pop after a World Title run a success ).

[GretaGridlock]

Pumpkin Jack is a cancer. 

Woodchuck for me never gets a good roll, so she's always neck and neck with Rekha before I do any hiring. I know people love her, but every game, I check her stats, sigh in disappointment and have to rush Celestina and Jez through feuds with Higa and The Malothian to put them where canon wants Woodchuck to be.

Aukland Raider is a potato machine, and in about half of my saves he becomes the personal project of my booking team, so I can never actually punish him for breaking necks.

 

[DirigoJoe]

On 10/13/2024 at 4:15 PM, Tiberious said:

Steve Frehley is also pretty mediocre relative to his push, but with USPW's product it's not that big a deal and he's at least over enough that fans will react to him as a star.

Can’t really disagree with this, especially in 9 where he seems to have lost a step. But Frehley is also getting older. He’s a bodybuilder, he keeps his physique, he can talk a little and still pull 90 matches and angles with the right people around him, but yeah. Where Joss Thompson is getting pushed down the card, Frehley stays on top? In my save he’s losing in ring ability…

[DirigoJoe]

On 10/15/2024 at 8:55 AM, Shooltra said:

Running Wolf would remind me of WWF Lex Luger ( with Rocky Golden being what if Lex Luger was the wrestler WCW wanted him to be ). Nicky Champion is a 6'6 Native American? Look, Running Wolf is a 6'6 Native American, which means he will be just as big if we push him. He can work in theory but in practice, that just doesn't work and looking at his bio, despite not having the attribute, it seems like he will be much better off as a heel and rival of Nicky which is where he will get to that final stage ( and might be why USPW would consider someone having a 77 pop after a World Title run a success ).

In his bio he allegedly had an 8mo successful title run and I don’t really see how that’s possible. He’s not a great worker and can’t talk… how did he carry the company for 8 months? 

[Tiberious]

50 minutes ago, DirigoJoe said:

In his bio he allegedly had an 8mo successful title run and I don’t really see how that’s possible. He’s not a great worker and can’t talk… how did he carry the company for 8 months? 

My headcannon is it was one of those runs where he had the title, but Nicky Champion was still the one closing most of the PPVs and Shows. Kind of like the era in 2012 where Punk was on his 434 day reign as WWE Champion, but it was John Cena headlining almost every PPV. I also imagine that Nicky Champion was basically a part of every feud that Running Wolf had as champion and was basically using his star power, name value, and charisma to sort of carry him through his reign even if Running Wolf was the one who physically held the belt.

I'm not sure if Running Wolf as a heel and rival of Nicky Champion will work out. Unless Running Wolf massively improves I'm just not really seeing it, and the issue with USPW is that Nicky Champion is getting older and popular enough he might try to crossover to non-wrestling stuff so I feel like there's a chance that they might try to have Nicky Champion turn heel and Running Wolf take his spot, which would IMO be a huge disaster since trying to replace your figurehead with someone who's the same personality but less popular and talented has never worked out. 

USPW's on top right now, but IMO they're kind of in a perilous spot because they're so reliant on Nicky Champion. My gut is the guy most likely to be able to sort of step into the Nicky Champion role is Julius Moore, He's more charismatic and a better promo then Nicky Champion, and even if his star quality isn't outstanding he at least has a distinct identity that doesn't feel like a clone of Nicky. His in ring skills obviously need polish, with his psychology being a bit low, but I think it's worth acknowleging that he got a late start to wrestling at age 26 and has roughly half as much experience as the like of similarly aged/positioned guys like Running Wolf and Casey Valentine so in my mind he's more likely to keep improving than other guys his age.

Of course with USPW's money they can always just pay the money to poach top names from other companies so even if they dont have a homegrown successor for Nicky Champion ready to step up they might be able to bring in the likes of Aaron Knight, Spencer Spade or Matthew Keith to headline for them.

[DirigoJoe]

4 minutes ago, Tiberious said:

My headcannon is it was one of those runs where he had the title, but Nicky Champion was still the one closing most of the PPVs and Shows. Kind of like the era in 2012 where Punk was on his 434 day reign as WWE Champion, but it was John Cena headlining almost every PPV. I also imagine that Nicky Champion was basically a part of every feud that Running Wolf had as champion and was basically using his star power, name value, and charisma to sort of carry him through his reign even if Running Wolf was the one who physically held the belt.

I'm not sure if Running Wolf as a heel and rival of Nicky Champion will work out. Unless Running Wolf massively improves I'm just not really seeing it, and the issue with USPW is that Nicky Champion is getting older and popular enough he might try to crossover to non-wrestling stuff so I feel like there's a chance that they might try to have Nicky Champion turn heel and Running Wolf take his spot, which would IMO be a huge disaster since trying to replace your figurehead with someone who's the same personality but less popular and talented has never worked out. 

USPW's on top right now, but IMO they're kind of in a perilous spot because they're so reliant on Nicky Champion. My gut is the guy most likely to be able to sort of step into the Nicky Champion role is Julius Moore, He's more charismatic and a better promo then Nicky Champion, and even if his star quality isn't outstanding he at least has a distinct identity that doesn't feel like a clone of Nicky. His in ring skills obviously need polish, with his psychology being a bit low, but I think it's worth acknowleging that he got a late start to wrestling at age 26 and has roughly half as much experience as the like of similarly aged/positioned guys like Running Wolf and Casey Valentine so in my mind he's more likely to keep improving than other guys his age.

Of course with USPW's money they can always just pay the money to poach top names from other companies so even if they dont have a homegrown successor for Nicky Champion ready to step up they might be able to bring in the likes of Aaron Knight, Spencer Spade or Matthew Keith to headline for them.

For sure. I have to imagine Nicky/Rich Money were driving that feud. There's just no way Wolf has that kind of juice. 

I also don't see a Wolf vs. Champion feud being that great either. Like, in real life two friends clashing might draw money but there's not a game mechanic that makes that work? And then what happens? Nicky beats him, kills his push and sends him back to the midcard? Or a heel Wolf beats Nicky and gets over big and they make up later? I dunno.

USPW IS in a perilous spot. I love that the big 3 all have different challenges to overcome. I don't see that the next big USPW face is on the roster. Both members of The Texas Express could gain SQ and maybe do it, but they have a long way to go on entertainment skills. Valentine is probably too old for it, and he'd need a big hit of SQ and entertainment skills too. Moor is great, but at 6'7'' and ripped in my save he's still only got an 81 in SQ. and he's 34 already. 

The company is rich and could certainly poach some names, but are they going to have the same impact on the business as a home grown star like Nicky? Rocky Golden did big business for SWF but is it the same when you sign a FA? They're still solidly in second place. I think if USPW gets a savior and isn't sent tumbling in a few years when Nicky leaves the business, the thing to do would be for an Olympic gold medalist or somesuch to join the promotion and slowly take that Ace spot 😂

[MikeSc]

4 hours ago, DirigoJoe said:

For sure. I have to imagine Nicky/Rich Money were driving that feud. There's just no way Wolf has that kind of juice. 

I also don't see a Wolf vs. Champion feud being that great either. Like, in real life two friends clashing might draw money but there's not a game mechanic that makes that work? And then what happens? Nicky beats him, kills his push and sends him back to the midcard? Or a heel Wolf beats Nicky and gets over big and they make up later? I dunno.

USPW IS in a perilous spot. I love that the big 3 all have different challenges to overcome. I don't see that the next big USPW face is on the roster. Both members of The Texas Express could gain SQ and maybe do it, but they have a long way to go on entertainment skills. Valentine is probably too old for it, and he'd need a big hit of SQ and entertainment skills too. Moor is great, but at 6'7'' and ripped in my save he's still only got an 81 in SQ. and he's 34 already. 

The company is rich and could certainly poach some names, but are they going to have the same impact on the business as a home grown star like Nicky? Rocky Golden did big business for SWF but is it the same when you sign a FA? They're still solidly in second place. I think if USPW gets a savior and isn't sent tumbling in a few years when Nicky leaves the business, the thing to do would be for an Olympic gold medalist or somesuch to join the promotion and slowly take that Ace spot 😂

I'm sure there are numerous examples you could go to on what both of you guys were talking about.  You sometimes need to use the belt to push a guy to the top of the card.  While you are doing that the current stars are going to be carrying a lot of weight and closing the show despite not being the champ.  Sometimes you would need to do that just to keep a guy fresh.  I would go back to 80s HOgan and think that it would be difficult to keep one guy as "the man" that long with only small interruptions to the title run these days.  You need the belt to change hands a little more often these days.

[TheDeep5ix]

I also want to mention that I love Fuyuko, although I can see why some people would consider her overrated. She never causes issues backstage for me unless she's complaining about losing to somebody, which shouldn't be often anyhow since she's 90+ popularity with amazing skills in my current save. I guess she could be a problem in smaller companies with pre-existing issues. Her design is also cool.

If I had to mention somebody overrated right now, there would be two choices. Ernest Youngman is loved by the community and he always delivers good matches, but I find him unrealistically good at everything for somebody still stuck in the indie scene in TEW IX for some unknown reason. The talent scounts in the Cornellverse must be genuinely terrible if they haven't discovered a man of his calibur on a handshake deal with a fairly reputable company. The only thing he can't do is High Spots matches, which is super easy to work around. Unlike Fuyuko and other insanely good people like Jay Chord, Ernest also has a positive personality and is pre-packaged with a manager who has great chemistry with him.

As far as overrated characters via in-game lore, Alina America is a good choice. She has top-tier Star Quality, but her other stats are simply good to great, yet don't seem high enough to somehow be the female wrestler of the year in 2021. Her popularity isn't high, either, so I'm wondering how she got voted for that. I know the in-game bio says she's a mega-star with the hispanic community, but her in-game popularity isn't high anywhere to be called a megastar. It's opposite issue of Nari, a celebrity who is supposedly unknown outside of Japan, yet has 80+ popularity everywhere but India.

[alpha2117]

@DirigoJoe & @Tiberious

So how can Running Wolf have had a successful 8 month run?

First off how can anyone on that Roster have a stellar run ... there isn't a lot of depth at the top which makes it hard straight away but it is possible and we actually have a reasonable indication of how from the data.  RW is a strong brawler with an 82 SQ which is enough to get over to the level he has especially given USPW's product not being too worried about stellar work.  He defeats Rich Money on the 4th of July 2020, so it's reasonable to assume his first defences are against Rich who is over and whose skills are good now and probably slightly better then + matches against the Business possibly some Tags with Nicky thrown in.  It's likely we say get another 2 to 4 months there.  We also know Steve Frehley defeats RW 27 March 21 so lets say they feud from late Jan till Frehley's win - again another guy who is over with a couple of lackeys who RW would have had victories over.  We know Baine retires in 2021 so lets say RW has a defence against Baine with the guys career on the line - not going to a stellar match but good enough to get a decent rating and get RW more over.  Throw in a couple of defences against say Eddie Howard and Brandon Smith in late 20 early 21 to help his momentum between the Rich win and say the Baine retirement and It's not hard to imagine RW getting over pretty strongly.  Honestly given the roster thats how I would have booked his run and we know that at least half of what I am speculating is almost certainly how the run was booked (the beginning and end).    

 

[MikeSc]

18 hours ago, TheDeep5ix said:

I also want to mention that I love Fuyuko, although I can see why some people would consider her overrated. She never causes issues backstage for me unless she's complaining about losing to somebody, which shouldn't be often anyhow since she's 90+ popularity with amazing skills in my current save. I guess she could be a problem in smaller companies with pre-existing issues. Her design is also cool.

If I had to mention somebody overrated right now, there would be two choices. Ernest Youngman is loved by the community and he always delivers good matches, but I find him unrealistically good at everything for somebody still stuck in the indie scene in TEW IX for some unknown reason. The talent scounts in the Cornellverse must be genuinely terrible if they haven't discovered a man of his calibur on a handshake deal with a fairly reputable company. The only thing he can't do is High Spots matches, which is super easy to work around. Unlike Fuyuko and other insanely good people like Jay Chord, Ernest also has a positive personality and is pre-packaged with a manager who has great chemistry with him.

As far as overrated characters via in-game lore, Alina America is a good choice. She has top-tier Star Quality, but her other stats are simply good to great, yet don't seem high enough to somehow be the female wrestler of the year in 2021. Her popularity isn't high, either, so I'm wondering how she got voted for that. I know the in-game bio says she's a mega-star with the hispanic community, but her in-game popularity isn't high anywhere to be called a megastar. It's opposite issue of Nari, a celebrity who is supposedly unknown outside of Japan, yet has 80+ popularity everywhere but India.

I think you make a valid point with Ernest.  He's one of those "You have to sign him" guys.  It makes zero sense that he's where he is, especially with how easy he is to work with.

I know a lot of folks love the earlier versions of the C-Verse where you weren't locked into needing to hire one of 3 or 4 guys if you wanted a main star for when you went national.  That being said, it is kind of a mirror to how RL works.  I know there are guys like Stone Cold who just needed the right gimmick to rocket him to superstardom, but there are only so many people who could come close to pulling that off in terms of (in-game) SQ and Charisma.  And the sad fact is that those guys are going to the WWE.  Then you have that secondary level of talent + SQ/Charisma that will main in NJPW/CMLL, etc.  Not even sure how to judge what makes somebody a "get" in AEW.  They are friends with the Bucks and Omega and/or can wrestle well?  It just doesn't seem like they worry that much about how big of a star the guy is or can be. 

Either way, a great gaming universe is not necessarily an exact copy of the real world.  And I don't necessarily love the C-Verse or RL currently.

[TheDeep5ix]

2 hours ago, MikeSc said:

I think you make a valid point with Ernest.  He's one of those "You have to sign him" guys.  It makes zero sense that he's where he is, especially with how easy he is to work with.

I know a lot of folks love the earlier versions of the C-Verse where you weren't locked into needing to hire one of 3 or 4 guys if you wanted a main star for when you went national.  That being said, it is kind of a mirror to how RL works.  I know there are guys like Stone Cold who just needed the right gimmick to rocket him to superstardom, but there are only so many people who could come close to pulling that off in terms of (in-game) SQ and Charisma.  And the sad fact is that those guys are going to the WWE.  Then you have that secondary level of talent + SQ/Charisma that will main in NJPW/CMLL, etc.  Not even sure how to judge what makes somebody a "get" in AEW.  They are friends with the Bucks and Omega and/or can wrestle well?  It just doesn't seem like they worry that much about how big of a star the guy is or can be. 

Either way, a great gaming universe is not necessarily an exact copy of the real world.  And I don't necessarily love the C-Verse or RL currently.

I would say a company like AEW doesn't prioritize Star Quality in the same vein as WWE. If they were in TEW, I think they would prioritize getting people with high primary skills, with Star Quality being more of a bonus than anything else.

There is certainly stagnation in the current C-Verse in terms of new guys to hire. I haven't played the older versions of the C-Verse, but at least there are several mods that add a ton of people on this forum to alleviate the current saves. I also agree  that a great gaming universe doesn't have to parallel the real world, so long as it's fun.

[alpha2117]

2 hours ago, TheDeep5ix said:

I would say a company like AEW doesn't prioritize Star Quality in the same vein as WWE. If they were in TEW, I think they would prioritize getting people with high primary skills, with Star Quality being more of a bonus than anything else.

There is certainly stagnation in the current C-Verse in terms of new guys to hire. I haven't played the older versions of the C-Verse, but at least there are several mods that add a ton of people on this forum to alleviate the current saves. I also agree that a great gaming universe doesn't have to parallel the real world, so long as it's fun.

Quite a good point about AEW - Khan likes to buy cult following guys.  I would say with them there are people with big SQ like Okada.  Nobody thinks AEW doesn't put on good bouts.

[JrSquared]

I will say not a worker persay but overrated booking decision is when youre doing a L2G game or indy company and sign a major star from big 3. Im PSW and if I signed Aaron Andrews it would feel like a fish out of water. Invasion angles aside I have hard time building fulfilling stories with big stars from outside promotions with no prior conenction.