T-Zone 2007

[Guest Ransik]

I installed the new temp patch before running a test game on my way to work... by September NOAH is the only promotion left with any TV time at all, and so far 10 companies have gone out of business. What I don't get is TNA rose from International to Global... and WWE finally got to Gloabal... but no TV shows and PPV deals have expired and not been renewed. I dunno... I'll wait until you tweak enough things and see if you feel like sending me the new data so I can run tests on it, cause it's hopeless on my end now. lol

[y2jbrock]

Whats the progress on this update?

[y2jbrock]

But i read a few threads back that theres a problem with the data and that it wasnt coming out....

[Consrvtve]

Were these problems (shows being cancelled left and right) happening in testing before the 1.3 patch? If not, maybe the only solution is to pray for an alternative patch which would undo the tinkering concerning how promotions rise and fall. The data worked fine in 2005. What has changed as far as software programing and dynamics to make WWE lose its shows? How can the data be changed to match these dynamics?

[Genadi]

[QUOTE=Consrvtve;190167]Were these problems (shows being cancelled left and right) happening in testing before the 1.3 patch? If not, maybe the only solution is to pray for an alternative patch which would undo the tinkering concerning how promotions rise and fall. The data worked fine in 2005. What has changed as far as software programing and dynamics to make WWE lose its shows? How can the data be changed to match these dynamics?[/QUOTE] :eek: Read this thread from start to finish and you'll start to get an idea.

[D16NJD16]

Yeah come on dude, it's only 1,082 posts, don't be so lazy.

[y2jbrock]

exactly lol

[Adam Ryland]

[U]First set of suggested changes[/U] For the WWE, I'd drop the overness of Canda, UK and Europe to 60%. This will take you to a solid International level. To make the roster pushes closer to reality, I'd make the following changes (this assumes that current main eventer JBL is being made inactive and so his spot needs filling too): Benoit's style should be changed to Regular Wrestler Finlay's popularity should be increased to the low 70s CM Punk's should be increased to the mid 70s The Boogeyman's should be increased to the mid 70s Lance Cade's should be lowered to 68 Johnny Nitro's should be lowered to 74 RVD should be up to 78\79 Matt Hardy goes down to 75 Umaga goes up to 77 Lashley goes up to 79\80 (this one is probably slightly higher than reality, but if you want him to not drop the ECW world title immediately, it is required) Those changes will sort out the main event and upper midcard of the roster. The "B" TV shows should be removed, the game is not meant to support them. Like your relationship file, the tag team file has completely lost its focus, and is based on "look how awesomely complete this list is!" not "does this help the game". The tag teams listed as "None" for promotion are for established tag teams who are likely to team together whenever they end up in the same promotion. That's their entire purpose - when the AI makes a new signing, it checks through that list to look for teams to make. On the very first page I can see Air Raid, AJ Styles and Air Paris, as a None team - clearly that shouldn't be there; it was a very short lived team to begin with, and no promoter is going to think "oh yeah, an Air Raid reunion, that is MONEY". See what I mean? So a lot of them need removing. You've also gone the other way, as I can see that Backseat Boys, a team that actually would be booked together, aren't listed as a None team. Finally, I'd drop things like the "2 Man Power Trip" - not only because Austin isn't active any more, but it was more of a storyline union than a real tag team. All those changes will cut the size of the file dramatically, making it better for the game and speeding up your loading times. There is a whole heap of people on the WWE roster who should be removed, or at the very least seriously considered for removal (I have not included the people who have since left the company anyway): Dave Lagana Ed Koskey Court Bauer Marty Rubalcaba Gene Okerlund Darren Drozdoff Brian Gerwitz Pat Patterson Lilian Garcia Justin Roberts Steve Austin Mick Foley Rebecca DiPietro Howard Finkle Steve Williams Hulk Hogan The writers should not even be in the database at all, as they are not workers - same goes for Drosdov as well. Neither should ring announcers really, although if you choose to keep Lilian and co in, you should turn them into Personalities, not Announcers, as otherwise they are taking spots from real announcers. Pat Patterson I was under the impression was now no longer with the promotion in an official capacity anyway, which is why he is on the list. With people like Austin, Foley, Hogan, etc, I understand why you have them under contract, but my advise is to cut them loose to the free agent pool. I don't believe that's too far off reality, and it helps reduce the amount of people you have sitting around backstage doing nothing. That's just the stuff I got from a 40 minute look at the database, I haven't even gotten to actually running any shows yet. I will do another post later tonight with my advice on how to improve other stuff, including the TV shows.

[y2jbrock]

great feedback adam.

[The-gamE]

i just chacked and k-fed shuld be in the game !!! read here: [url]http://www.prowrestlingfans.com/index.php?id=viewArticle&articleID=11035[/url]

[Adam Ryland]

To follow up on the removal of Heat, there's an obvious reason why the WWE always loses at least one TV show - they start with four, whereas the AI only ever tries to keep three active shows at any point in time. I'm surprised none of the testers were aware of this, given that that's been the case since 2004. So I will repeat my advice that Heat needs to get removed. The network \ TV set up for TNA and WWE looks fairly good other than that, the only one that definitely won't last is TNA's contract with RDS, as their level of Hardcore will not be permitted by a Mainstream network. I have run some further tests on a database which has all the changes I have suggested so far in it, and it goes improve the WWE's performance a little. The issue that is left is again more conceptul than anything - the real life WWE's shows are pretty poor, and don't really live up to the level that the WWE is at in terms of size, so the simulation is fairly accurate in that respect. You really have two choices; artificially boost the WWE roster's popularity so that the promotion gets better ratings and stay at their current level, or keep them as they are (which IMO is at a realistic level) and accept that the WWE in reality is in something of a slide and this is being simulated correctly. I have also taken a look at TNA for you, but my findings are not good - as good as I thought you'd set up the WWE stats, TNA has gone completely the opposite way and is really badly done. The key issue is that it seems that the promotion was designed by someone who loves TNA, and the roster was designed by someone who hates TNA, and that's left a huge disparity between where they are, and what they are capable of. Looking at the promotion to begin with, the main issue is with the overness. My guess is that whoever designed it thought "well, they have TV shows all over the world so I'd better make them International" - this is a poor decision, as while they may have international television coverage, that does not mean they are an International sized promotion in TEW. The first thing that needs changing is the UK and Europe. As it stands, TNA is not far behind the WWE, which is ludicrous - a short-lived, barely-watched TV show on an obscure network does not equate to over two decades of exposure that the WWE\F has had. Knock them down 30% and you're closer to the mark, and even that's generous. Canada should also be reduced dramatically. The American popularity is more debatable, but I think the current levels are far too high. I wouldn't have their average overness at more than 60%. Those changes will take them down to Cult-about-to-hit-National, which is a realistic depiction of their real-life status. Moving onto the roster, it's very easy to see why they currently struggle in your mod, and again I have to say that I'm surprised that none of the testers just applied logic to the situation. The WWE is struggling to maintain their size when most of their main eventers are averaging 80+ in popularity. TNA have been set to only be slightly smaller than the WWE, and you're having them try to survive with a main event scene where most people are in the 50s and 60s for popularity! This is the disparity I was talking about - on one hand you're portraying TNA as being almost as big as the WWE, and on the other you've given them a roster of people who would struggle to make it to Midcard level in the WWE. They can't both be true. Fortunately, you have two obvious solutions, and just need to pick one. If you follow my advice on lowering the promotion's popularity then you don't really need to do a lot else - they have a roster that is already set up pretty well to handle that level of popularity. If you choose to ignore my advice on the size and keep them as International, then you need to follow-up on that by making the roster better. If you believe TNA are genuinely at 70%+ across the USA, then you'll need to shift most of the roster's popularity up by about 10-15% to match it. The one thing to note is that if you do lower their size, you may need to do some work on their TV deals to match the change.

[The-gamE]

ladies and gentlemans... the solution (i think) !!!!

[panix04]

:eek: wow, i really think that is a case of taking customer service to the next level! I did some testing and here are some thing that do and don't affect wages: [U]Do:[/U] Stat levels overness [U]Don't:[/U] service length age alternate roles (IE comentator, ref etc) are there any other criteria you'd like me to test?

[HHUK]

Nice to see Adam taking an interest in this, I wouldn't say NWA:TNA are near WWE in terms of overness and alot of the wrestlers aren't either, as popularity is generally decided by the mainstream casual fans and not the internet wrestling fans. NWA:TNA are the closest we have to WWE at the moment and their popularity never stops rising, it's almost sure that they'll be as big as WCW one day. They've not long started showing it on Bravo but I already know girls who watch it with genuine interest. One thing I'm confused about with overness is... alot of WWE casual fans know who the Dudleys are, yet they don't know who AJ Styles is. Yet, in NWA:TNA, Styles is higher up the card and I'm guessing he would be given a higher overness? It's really tricky to get a balance.

[Blasphemywebleed]

[QUOTE=HHUK;190325] One thing I'm confused about with overness is... alot of WWE casual fans know who the Dudleys are, yet they don't know who AJ Styles is. Yet, in NWA:TNA, Styles is higher up the card and I'm guessing he would be given a higher overness? It's really tricky to get a balance.[/QUOTE] Yeah i was thinking about that the other day. I think you have to look at the overness of the worker in the current promotion they work for. If you had Dudleys overness set higher than AJ's then they would be more known in the gameworld but also above AJ in the roster which the latter wouldnt be true. I'm not actually sure how the stat work inter-promotion but if someone else does and could explain it my head could stop hurting for a little while :)

[TsuMirren]

Have to agree with the slashing of TNA's overness to the levels stated by Adam. The networks may then need tweaked, size for example...I believe someone made a few suggestions a few pages back now. Admittedly, i've been concentrating on the UK stuff so hadn't looked at the US much aside from noticing that on two consecutive occasions the WWE have signed the exact same people...pretty much in the same order aswell. I have my brother running an auto click sim for me at the moment, so will check the results when I get home...if he let's it past January 2008 I'll swing for him! Did notice one very funny fact...Gauntley booker of SWA, haha. DELETE HIM! DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!

[Harts4Life]

[QUOTE=Blasphemywebleed;190331]Yeah i was thinking about that the other day. I think you have to look at the overness of the worker in the current promotion they work for. If you had Dudleys overness set higher than AJ's then they would be more known in the gameworld but also above AJ in the roster which the latter wouldnt be true. I'm not actually sure how the stat work inter-promotion but if someone else does and could explain it my head could stop hurting for a little while :)[/QUOTE] I don't know what the actual stats say, as I am not a tester, but one thing that people are forgetting about NWA:TNA is that the traditional card structure isn't followed all that strictly ... Lance Hoyt has main evented an Impact, ladies and gentlemen ... nothing against Lance, but he's definitely not along the same overness as Jeff Jarrett, Sting, Christian or even Abyss. If the Dudleys are more over than AJ Styles, but are used in the midcard, that's the booking decision of TNA, not a reflection of overness. Everyone who was even a smaller name in WWE should be more over than Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, or even Christopher Daniels, by virtue of what Adam refers to earlier, the sheer exposure factor. More people know who Spike Dudley is than who Homicide is, and Homicide's been trading the World Tag Team titles with Styles and Daniels most recently, while Spike's just been getting his butt kicked around the ring. Your most over stars in TNA should be as follows (in alphabetical order): BG James Brother Devon Brother Ray Brother Runt Christian Cage Christy Hemme Gail Kim Jackie Jim Mitchell (due to WCW/ECW fame) Jeff Jarrett Jim Cornette Kevin Nash Kip James Kurt Angle (probably going to be your most over guy on the roster, at WWE Main Event levels) Raven Rhino Ron Killings Scott Steiner Shane Douglas (see notes for Jim Mitchell) Simon Diamond (see above) Sting Tomko All of these guys were bigger names in bigger promotions at one time or another. All of them have reputations that are bigger than NWA:TNA, and frankly are best served using them to put over the other guys on the roster. Please, please remember that just because they appear in the main event of Impact, this does not a Main Eventer make. Whoever is finalizing the stats needs to view everyone, in every promotion, with an even mind. Put biases aside, and consider how well known they are in the area that you are setting them. Especially hometowns (Angle obviously should be more over in the Philadelphia area) and areas of regular employment (Christopher Daniels should be the most over in the Tri-State area and California due to his long service with ROH, and having started in California.) By taking a non-biased stance, the data will only end up as top-quality, instead of falling to the muck that other real-life data mods suffer.

[HugeRockStar760]

Interesting...Like I said, the output wasn't the fault of the game. Not only am I a lucha libre fan, but I'm a TNA fan and skeptic at the same time. It would've helped to include someone that could take an impartial look at the TNA roster to ensure it was playable.

[forlan]

I agree wholeheartedly myself on the TNA thing but anyone who followed the 2005 updates knows that millions of people cried TNA sould be more over. I'll gladly reduce them. And Harts4Life, no offence but your feedback is kind of redundant since right from the start it's been that way, ie people like Darin Corbin for example more over in the Tri-State, Mid West and Great Lakes areas and such, thats just common sense. I'll take on board Adams suggestions for popularity changes as well as Tag Teams and such. Only thing i've got to say is i hadn't actually started on the TNA or WWE overnesses yet thats why they kind of are all over the place. Once again a huge thanks to Adam, not many other game developers would go into this much detail :)

[forlan]

[QUOTE=panix04;190321]:eek: wow, i really think that is a case of taking customer service to the next level! I did some testing and here are some thing that do and don't affect wages: [U]Do:[/U] Stat levels overness [U]Don't:[/U] service length age alternate roles (IE comentator, ref etc) are there any other criteria you'd like me to test?[/QUOTE] I don't understand that since Larry Sweeney is a big example, his stats arent superb except for Entertainment and he sn't exactly Mr. Over but he still has ridiculously high wages :s

[panix04]

i will take a look at him and see if anything stands out tha could be affecting it, maybe hes just a greedy sod!

[HugeRockStar760]

[QUOTE=forlan;190351]I agree wholeheartedly myself on the TNA thing but anyone who followed the 2005 updates knows that millions of people cried TNA sould be more over. I'll gladly reduce them. And Harts4Life, no offence but your feedback is kind of redundant since right from the start it's been that way, ie people like Darin Corbin for example more over in the Tri-State, Mid West and Great Lakes areas and such, thats just common sense. I'll take on board Adams suggestions for popularity changes as well as Tag Teams and such. Only thing i've got to say is i hadn't actually started on the TNA or WWE overnesses yet thats why they kind of are all over the place. Once again a huge thanks to Adam, not many other game developers would go into this much detail :)[/QUOTE] Oliver Copp from TNM goes in great detail as well. As for the overness of WWE and TNA wrestlers, why don't you allocate that to more than one person? It seems arbitrary if one person is deciding it.

[forlan]

The whole problem that got TNA way too over is that too many people ar epro TNA over WWE these days because its the "cool" thing to do. I have little to no opinion on each so it's better. Plus the whole thing would be held up over me and whoever arguing over a minor couple of overness points for a person

[HugeRockStar760]

Why not have two people glancing over ratings, they make their adjustments but ultimately, it's you who has final say over whether the rating changes are accurate and kept. In management, you delegate responsibilities but always have final say. Adam has provided a good framework on what types of wrestlers fall into certain rating categories. I could go through now and easily rate the WWE. TNA wouldn't be hard either since it is a smaller promotion with fewer wrestlers.

[panix04]

having taken a good look at mr sweeney i thought it might be the fact he has several contracts causing problems, but that didnt effect it, i also checked his overness which was very low indeed. I did notice he had very high entertainment skills, if you take them and drop them down to about 65% his wages plummet from 1900 to 600 - perhaps its because he's a comentator with high entertainment skills. Its a bit like, in football, trying to sign a striker with good finishing, whos good in the air, because he has high ratings in useful attributes you have to pay him more, atleast thats the way i see it!