djthefunkchris Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=shamelessposer;201927]"Dog-eat-dog" would only apply if someone was actually benefiting from modding in some way. [B]As it is, modding is just a pit you throw time into.[/B] It seems to me that the real respect issue here is Lukie's lack of respect of the community as a whole. Part of being a community and publicly releasing data for a game this easily modified is that people are going to switch up your work. Claiming that someone has some sort of rights to computer game data they have essentially dumped into the public domain seems silly at best and pretentious at worst. As long as Lukie's name is in the credits, there shouldn't be a problem.[/QUOTE] Yes, it takes alot of time. I'm really shocked at the attitude going on around here over this. It was no secret, and there was a working aggreement already into play NOT to use the data, and that it was to be erased before molding a new one. Some of the people that have taken the LONGEST amount of time (literally) to set up the ORIGINAL work done for alot of these mods have been totally disrespected. ACCBigs, Lukie, D. Boone's Ghost... Do you guys here yourselves? Look, none of them have ever asked to be put above anyone else in here. All of them have shared and contributed to this community for EVERYONE to enjoy. And most of all, MOST of any of these other mods wouldn't have existed if not for THEIR Hard work (Again TIME). I was really looking forward to this mod, the key word is WAS. If the attitude stays the same here, I won't be interested at all with it. I understand my personal interest is not wanted, or perhaps not even desired, but the reason behind it should get through at some point in time. How about I copy this mod after it's finished and then just call it MY WORK, and announce the names of the other's that contributed (without myself doing any work at all on it). Is that something that would be just as easily excepted? Region, Country, or whole MOD, without consent of the person I am getting the information from, its morally wrong... He said he wanted it out, so just take it out. Do your own work on that part of the world, and even if it's not half as well put together, people that like this mod probably will appreciate it and respect it as YOUR work. In our desire to see a modern real world setting, lets not just except anything no matter what. You guys realise what would happen if everyone that does original work were to pull out of here? This won't just chase away the original modders, but it could chase away any future modders that want to contibute to the community as well. I said there should be a seperate forum to discuss this earlier, I still believe this, but that's not up to me to do. Probably the best thing to do is for the people working on this to PM Lukie, and find out how this can be resolved without just saying "Tough, I'm using it no matter what!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP1 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 OH MY GOD! A man goes away to Riga for a weekend and all hell breaks loose. There seem to be two main arguements on this board at the moment: 1) Which is better T-Zone or 1RC? 2) Should lukieP's data be included? Here are my rambling thoughts: 1) No real answer. Some people like T-Zone, others like 1RC. I personally will give both a try to see which sims the real world better! The reason people are getting so aggressive is that as wrestling fans, we all naturally love a conflict against 2 sides. In this case TZone and 1RC. My advice would be ignore the bullsh*t and form your own opinion when both are released. Until then, test them and give constructive criticism. 2) Now this is a tricky one. Arguements can, and have, been made for both sides (a. lukie released it to the internet, therefore it's free to use b. he gets no respect). Personally, when working on FORC05, I asked lukiep's permission for his data. However when I released it, I did make the mistake of saying it was 'for the people, by the people,' which is what I truly felt, however it slipped my mind that lukie did not want his data modified. My mistake, and I apologised to him personally and asked the people then editing the mod to remove his work. Which brings us to 1RC (FORC07). I gave the mod to Johnny Fenoli to convert over to the new game, because I wanted to work on a historical mod, and after the amount of time I spent on an up-to-date mod, it really was a thankless task. What I forgot to tell Johnny (my mistake again) was to remove lukie's data as per his request (part of the reason I didn't want to do the mod again was the hassle of learning about Japanese wrestling in order to create the data). I then heard that Johnny was not continuing with work on it (little did I know it was a secret, hush-hush operation) so I didn't give it a second thought. However, now that it has been released, I knew this arguement would be rehashed. As I modder I understand the hardwork that goes into it, and thus appreciate the not wanting to be ripped off for credit by someone else (it's an ego thing). However, at the same time, for the casual player, I understand the 'I don't care about these arguements, I just want a data to play' attitude. I probably would have removed Japan from the data and released it, I mean how many of us actually use Japan anyway? That being said I can see why Johnny released it with the data in. In conclusion, it's always polite to ask to use a data. As long as people who buy the game get a mod they can play. So let's stop the arguing and get back to modding and playing, without the pettiness, and try and enjoy it! :D [I]Did you miss me?[/I] P.S. Who is ACCBIGGS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=TCP1;201950] P.S. Who is ACCBIGGS?[/QUOTE] He is part of the EW community. He posted this: [QUOTE]For those that may be trying to download via EWInventory, we have taken it down until the LUKIE/1RC thing is resolved. The puro stats are apprently taken from LUKIE's update, which he asked not to do, and EWI respects each individual mod creators work. It's been this way since the origanal official EW Resource Site when Nightmare ran it for the older EW's and it will continue to be that way. Free mods or not, and I'm not accusing anyone but the stats are exactly alike which is interesting, and each mod creator should have the right not to have their work taken for any reason, and I know people like T-Zone, DBoons, and others all agree after the conversations in the past I've had with them. I hope the issue is resolved as 1RC is a popular mod and well done. If Fenoli wants to PM me he can.[/QUOTE] And I support his/their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP1 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Cool ok. Why have I never had any dealings with him? Seems like a sensible chap. Is he a website owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=TCP1;201958]Cool ok. Why have I never had any dealings with him? Seems like a sensible chap. Is he a website owner?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure, but from his post he seems to be at least in part responsible for EW. Here is a [URL="http://www.ewinventory.com/tew07.html"]link[/URL] I mentioned him because of comments made after his post, that I thought were a bit gruff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon9967 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I simmed a month and a lot of promotions lost their TV deals. TNA were getting warnings after one show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rams Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 There are really only two good solutions that I see. 1. The mod is pulled until the issue is resolved. 2. A formal apology is added to the credits and the user can let their ethics decide if they use the data or not for the time being. I understand lukieP's complaint. Just because the mod is free it doesn't make using someone's work without permission acceptable. Communities often have their own code of ethics and clearly here it was broken. The problem is it's the users not the mod makers who will suffer if the mod is pulled right now. Many people including myself have been waiting months for some playable real world data. We didn't make any mistakes. At least until another playable data set comes out I encourage LukieP to be the bigger man and drop this issue temporarily for the users sake. At the same time I hope Johnny and Carlito learn to respect a fellow mod maker enough to respect his wishes or work out an agreement at some point down the road. Maturity seems to be in short supply around these forums lately so I hope this trend can end here and both side can work something out. To Forlan: A starving man is less concerned about the quality of his food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=201976#post201976[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Fenoli Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=D. Boon's Ghost;201912]You would certainly think so. But alas the modders in this community cannot even bother to work together, rather allowing their moronic cheerleaders to continue the baiting. The people to blame are those that are unwilling to respect the work of their fellow modders. Yeah... Tommy can joke about stealing others work to save himself three years. You know what? Some of us have spent longer hammering out whatever project. That doesn't matter at all to people playing. As long as they have their instant gratification, they could not care less. But Tommy, Carlito, and everyone else that has spent any amount of time working on this crap should care. There are not many of us out there willing to provide for the community. That they are mocking one of their own is a disgrace and goes to prove that it's entirely dog-eat-dog around here. Way to go, guys. I really hope your friends-only scenario was worth it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rams;201973]There are really only two good solutions that I see. 1. The mod is pulled until the issue is resolved. 2. A formal apology is added to the credits and the user can let their ethics decide if they use the data or not for the time being. I understand lukieP's complaint. Just because the mod is free it doesn't make using someone's work without permission acceptable. Communities often have their own code of ethics and clearly here it was broken. The problem is it's the users not the mod makers who will suffer if the mod is pulled right now. Many people including myself have been waiting months for some playable real world data. We didn't make any mistakes. At least until another playable data set comes out I encourage LukieP to be the bigger man and drop this issue temporarily for the users sake. At the same time I hope Johnny and Carlito learn to respect a fellow mod maker enough to respect his wishes or work out an agreement at some point down the road. Maturity seems to be in short supply around these forums lately so I hope this trend can end here and both side can work something out. To Forlan: A starving man is less concerned about the quality of his food.[/QUOTE] Wait a second... Now I'm the bad guy? I need to learn to respect people? We didn't STEAL his work on purpose. We just converted and modded what we had... Yeah lukie's crap was part of that... We went in and adjusted stats on alot of the workers and promotions in this mod. Not to steal, but to make it work... I was going to get into a big rant here, but you know what? I'm done. Done with this whole mod, done with this board, whatever... Tired of getting PMs calling me a thief, tired of people making me look bad on the forums... Just tired of it all. I didn't make this mod for no kind of glory, we did it for fun. It really urks me that D. Boon, who I liked would attack my credibility, after have helping him out over the last few years. You should know that I didnt do this out of disrespect. Rams, is there really a reason to attack our character, and then make a comment about the quality of the mod? Clearly stating that the only reason people like this is cause they are hungry for anything at all? I've apologized all I'm going to apologize. I'm done, screw this... I'm just as happy updating it daily, as I am not updating it at all. One, Johnny Fenoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsiddus2 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 and THERE you have it. you people make me sick. arguing over PETTY things like who gave credit, who didn't give credit. thats all it is. its fricking PETTY. it was a MISTAKE PEOPLE A MISTAKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Fenoli Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=darthsiddus2;201989]and THERE you have it. you people make me sick. arguing over PETTY things like who gave credit, who didn't give credit. thats all it is. its fricking PETTY. it was a MISTAKE PEOPLE A MISTAKE![/QUOTE] it wasnt so much petty... I mean, I guess we did steal his work.... but not intentionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKain Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ok. It's his "work"... ...in an editor. He spent time. He couldn't make it for money. Indirectly since YOU have that editor also, no matter what he does he can't force you to not edit his "work." He's stupid to say that. If he doesn't want you screwing with his work, he shouldn't have ever given it to anyone. You can't "steal" from someone who gave it away, and they can't whine if you edit it in an editor. Lastly, it would have to be updated from 05 to 07 anyway, and therefore would HAVE to be edited. So if you want to follow his "law" then you shouldn't bother bringing it into the game. Really, he's just gotta get off his high horse. Respect from most is only covered by one thing. A copyright. And you can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevBone Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Lukie and all the people who are taking his side need to quit crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=KevBone;202003]Lukie and all the people who are taking his side need to quit crying.[/QUOTE] I have created a thread for this to try and stop cluttering these forums but i had to address this well thought out, provocative argument. Its funny how all the people not showing respect are mostly people have just recently joined the community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevBone Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You'd almost be right, if my join date wasn't September of 2005, a month before you. Denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyed Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Some people on this forum needs to cut the crap. Fenoli put a hell of a lot of effort into this scenario even though he converted it. Maybe some people should try working on a mod themselves and realise how much time, effort and commiment you need to put into it. Guys like Fenoli are putting all their spare time into these mods for you people, which makes some people here ungrateful. It's the best real world mod out there, and I can't believe people here are destroying the modders community. Personally If it wasn't for all these great mods I probably wouldn't have even bought the last two TEW games. People neeed to stop being so ungrateful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagilki Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Stop it. Stop it now. This path brings only a fickle fight. (note, this post was not directed towards the one directly above it but the one above that one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 [QUOTE=KevBone;202012]You'd almost be right, if my join date wasn't September of 2005, a month before you. Denied.[/QUOTE] fair point, but having read through your previous posts i have noticed you havnt really contributed much as a community member other than to take a few pot - shots at Forlan, but meh! :rolleyes: anyway, like i said if you have any more comments about this current turn of events please post them in the thread i made in the dog pound. If you have a personal issue with me please PM me and we can talk about it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br26 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As long as the right people are given credit i dont understand why this mod can't continue to be distributed to people who have been waiting for a mod like this for months.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagilki Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Br26, off topic, but does the initails RKW mean anything to you? (this is totaly off topic, if you are who I think you are they will, if not, nevermind) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br26 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 yes, im on their boards right now :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_shakerz Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 STOP IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can we talk about the mod and what needs to be fixed/added ????????? GOSH!!!!!!!! You're worst than my 5 kids when it comes to who is watching tv!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_shakerz Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ok I admit it... I have no kids :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As the front page indicates that this is no longer an active project, this thread is being closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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