PeterHilton

Yeah, I think you answered your own points. I don't make allowances for an act that I wasn't that interested in when they were in their prime. And I don't really see them as representing a better period in wrestling. I don't see them as a benefit because the fact that they're going to go over any of the teams on the roster will send a negative message. Both backstage to the wrestlers who have to put over those two (now) talentless mounds of goo and to the fans watching. Because there's really no way to convince me that the number of 'Nasty Boys-nostalgia fans' outweigh the number of people who see them as an utter joke. Also..I may have missed it, but what do you think of Ken Anderson? You're being a little subtle imo

See..if that's how it works, I'm on board. Because that seems genuinely interesting. I'm worried it's going to be like the last round of Tough Enough where everyone was already playing a character and it was "worked-reality"

Great argument. I would say that shows that Bagwell should definitely be a HOFer too.

So with ECW closing tonight and NXT debuting this is apparently the roster: http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/130047/Roster-For-WWE-NXT.htm

Oh no..the Nastys really are that bad. In their prime, they were an acceptable midcard brawler tag team that didn't bring anything to the table, but certainly didn't embarass themselves out there. But that was literally decades ago. RIGHT NOW every second they are on TV is an insult to the viewing audience. Moreso than Bubba the Love Sponge they are an example of Hogan stacking the card with his friends for his own selfish purposes. Remember this when they beat Morgan & Hernandez for the tag belts.

also (and I hope it doesn't come off like I'm taking a personal shot at you lol) I would really like to see who was a better 1B from 1991-1997 than Frank Thomas. Seriously..who was better?

This argument has been disporven quite a bit over the years. Steroids also improve the fast twitch muscles which create reflexive reactions. Sprinters get out the block faster, hurdlers and high jumpers can start their jump attempts a step later, and batters can swing faster and later in the pitch. Steroids and HGH most definitely help you hit a ball farther, harder, and more consistently. The idea that steroids don't help you hit a baseball is a lie the athlete's have told to cover their own asses. Now..if you don't see why it's wrong for artificially improve their performance, that's a separate issue.

Statistically he's a monster. I mean, realistically he should be unanimous first ballot HOFer based on his numbers. He's going to retire as one of four players in mlb history w/a .300 batting average, 500 home runs, 1,500 RBI, 1,000 runs and 1,500 walks (along with Mel Ott, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth) He has two MVPs and four silver slugger awards. Plus, his HR totals never flared up dramatically and the levelled off and dipped normally so you almost assume (although you never know for sure) that he did it clean. Definitely in the HOF

Well Raw just ended with Sheamus destroying the two biggest faces in the company. And the heat was exactly what I would call 'deafening' So, no...it's not coming across on TV.

No. He isn't. I mean..he's marginally over in that the audience knows they "should" boo him, but not really.. The Pope however IS over and TNA should ride him for all he's worth because, with their booking, that won't last long.

I don't know that they need to be different to be successful. Not 'reinvent the wheel' different, anyways. That seems to be part of the problem with the writing team actually; they're trying to do too much. Sure they killed the six sided ring, and the X Division is a joke but they do have one thing going for them that means a lot to me as a fan: If you line up the rosters side by side TNA has more guys I'm willing to pay to watch wrestle. That's huge. If they could present a coherent product TNA could be very successful on Monday nights.

I actually feel very similarly. I actually like big chunks of what they're doing. I agree with most of who they've decided to push ( Dinero, Morgan, Wolfe, ), I like AJ with Flair, I love that Angle is being used as a real central part of the shows.. but the "mistakes" they've made are just so glaring that it stops me from being invested.

Here's the thing: The test run on Monday night seemed to show that there's an audience out there that will ONLY watch a Monday Night War type set-up. It seemed like a lot of the old time fans came back just for the one-off. If you can get those people watching on a regular basis, TNA wins viewers just by showing up on Monday.

Awesome. The gimmick changed after he won the world title because they were transitioning him to be the face of the Raw brand. He needed to be more marketable. His superman push coincided with the family friendly thing. He became Vince's new Hulk Hogan. Similar push. Similar character. Similar marketing. He became the world champion with the rapper gimmick. You couldn't sell t-shirts to little kids with that gimmick, though. Simple as that. The gimmick worked fine. You're mistaken.

Back on topic...I love the move to Monday Nights. The announcement today was a geek out moment. Not because i expect them to 'beat the WWE' , but because of the incredible amount of trust Spike is showing in the company. It's a great sign for TNA.

You are literally clueless. There is not a single factual statement anywhere in this mess. If the rapper gimmick didn't work, how did he get over? Why was he getting as much fan support on SD in his feuds with Angle and Lesnar as those two - despite the fact they were far more established than he was? The reason Cena GOT HIS MONSTER PUSH IN THE FIRST PLACE was because the gimmick worked. How do you not realize that? I hate derailing the thread over and over, but you are making anti-Cena/WWE statements that have literally zero basis in fact. Zero. This is like something you would read on tnawrestlingnews forums. I don't even particularly like John Cena but these posts are frickin stupid and I can't help myself.

Dinero is a stud and they should run AJ/Dinero for at least two PPV's because Pope/Flair promos would be epic. You're being ridiculous. One, you have to sort of assume Cena wouldn't play the same character he is now specifically BECAUSE the generic, bland, good guy was either never used or used as a comedy character during that time period. So this version of Cena wouldnt be what we got...he'd be something else entirely. And based on his early work as the white rapper and during the first stages of his face turn, he'd fit in fine if they used him as an anti-hero type. Also...by what possible measure most other midcarders during that time period bigger draws than Cena? He's been the biggest star in the US for what...5 years? 6 years? I get that YOU don't care for the product, and I think Super Cena is boring as hell, but you can't just toss the man aside and say 'o well he would never have drawn back then' because based on everything we've seen of his career, you're completely wrong When his career is done, Cena - for better or worse - is going to be seen as one of the top 5 draws in WWE history. There's not a single midcarder that was around during the Attitude Era that would get a whiff of that.

Y'know..I've ordered the last four but there's absolutely no way I'm ordering this one. There are possibly some great matches in that tourney, but there's no way I'm throwing money at a company with a PPV that has Team 3D vs The Nasty Boys. No ****ing way.

No. And no. You can't own the rights to a name if it's A)their real name or b) a name they used before going to the WWE (unless the wrestler were dumb enough to signa contract that specifically turns those rights over).

It has nothing to do with that record. The company i work has a good relationship with AEG and the LA Live/Staples Center complex and whenever their executives talk about getting a team into the stadium in Carson, they don't talkin terms of talent or record, they talk about revenue. The developers are making as much if not more money from the commercial and retail developments springing up around Staples. Their vision for the land around the Carosn stadium is this insane, massive commercial complex with million dollar condos sitting atop the commercial centers, each condo with a view of the stadium field . They literally think it will be abigger attraction than Disneyland. And none of that happens without a team. They don't care what the franchise looks like ...and if the hard cap goes away they are prepared to spend like the Yankees to get LA fans to buy in.

Thanks. Ditto. I honestly don't think amp said anything wrong. Like I said, i just dislike the concept. I don't know what amp's background is so his perspective and experiences may be very different than mine. Plus, it's always a decent conversation to have as long as it's done thoughtfully

I'm not going to make a huge deal out of it, but the idea of being 'Americanized' is just incredibly stupid to me. Obviously people who grow up in different countries have different cultures, but only in a few ethnicities is it seen as a stigma to be 'more American' than what is considered 'typical.' Saying that Chavo wouldn't be believable acting a certain way plays into a stereotype. Which, in wrestling, isn't a big deal (or more exactly, it happens so often you sort of get used to it). But it does bother me to hear about this idea of what it means to be 'Americanized.' So is Chavo not an All-Mexican Mexican? What would make him more Mexican? What qualities would he need to show on screen that would make him a more believable Mexican? When people answer those questions, more often than not, it's about stereotype. I don't think your post was offensive, but the entire concept is bad news. When you define someone like Chavo culturally by what he isn't (he doesn't act very Mexican) then by default you are also defining what it means to be Mexican. And by definiing that identity within such strict parameters, you limit that culture as a whole. I could go on, but it touches on much greater issues in entertainment today.

WTF? This is an idiotic and very limited view of cultural identity. As an American of Mexican descent who served in the navy, has never been part of a gang, speaks with zero accent, and has been extremely successful in a large corporate environment, I would question your "friends'" idea of what it means to be "Americanized" (and by the same token, what exactly their criteria of Mexican is? Should he wear a sombrero, talk like Speedy Gonzales, and sport a giant Pancho Villa like moustache?) Chavo is a member of one of the founding families of lucha libre and his grandfather was as famous as El Santo in his prime. I think it's cool for him to be considered Mexican.

I think that's an unfair attitude to have considering the amount of physical punishment these guys take and the amount of legitimate talent it requires to get yourself over. I mean..you don't honestly think it's as simple as "great gimmick who got pushed to the moon"?

We did the whole 'criteria' debate in another thread a few weeks back, so I won't go too much into it, but there are quite a few performers who either a)didn't work for the WWF/E b)worked there, but not during their prime or c) worked there but weren;t what most people would consider "stars" (ala Koko B Ware) Based on what the WWE is doing with their HOF, Inoki is certainly no less worthy than quite a few of the other entrants.