cappyboy

I don't know how new I'd say the character is. He's been playing it for the better part of a year now. But he does play it well. And while I'm here, allow me to say two things about Tomko. 1: He really shocked me tonight. I never expected to be impressed by anything Tomko did. But I gotta say that powerslam he gave Angle was pretty darn sweet. Nice and fluid and a really good snap on it. It's still not much to recommend him on but every journey starts with a single step. 2: Is it just me or has he put a few "vanity pounds" on? I pretty sure I saw the beginnings of some fat on him. Nothing significant enough to take away from his impressive look but enough that he might want to work them off.

And skewing things to make him look extra silly in the process. His "close to" was questionable enough at 5k. No need to sledgehammer the point by rounding up.

Okay. So you edit his post and then criticize the point he was making with the edited math? Not saying you're wrong to question his "close to being sold out". But you could have framed your conclusion better without the number shifting

Agreed. Wasn't quite as good as what they were having before. But considering the Hogan influence I'll definitely take it. I guess. But if he's supposed to be a dire heel now, it's going to take a while to properly translate. Going up against Bischoff is a hard row to hoe if you want to establish yourself as a heel. If he had been heel all along and were battling Hogan/Bischoff all along, okay. That would be easier to embrace. But because he's going off on Bischoff, Jarrett tends to sound in the right. I guess. I don't get what all the bother is about Jordan actually. That dragon screw while in the ropes was pretty nasty looking and I hope to find Jordan/Pope on Youtube so I can see it again. But Orlando Jordan looks like some personal trainer dude they pulled out of the crowd. You can't get somebody more impressive to mess with The Pope? Looks like they are going with a Krystal over-speaking her bounds and Bobby wanting to wrestle while the MMA will let him angle. Hope they keep Krystal on hand however much more time Bobby's able to give TNA. She makes a really good shrew of a manager and could be a real asset for bringing the young guys along. I guess. But you know I'm looking forward to seeing it play out all the same. I love that Angelina is ticked off about being replaced by Lacey Von Erich and willing to go to war with her old friends because of it. If the other Knockouts can feel useful enough to stay around, I'll be very interested to see whether they back Angelina up in this fight or are too afraid to trust her because of all the crap she pulled when she led the group. To each their own, dude. But I hope they stay gone. It will be good for establishing Hogan the way they want to. And if they can do that without diluting the awesome undercard, that could be a good thing. Gotta disagree here. It was pretty much exactly what I expected. I can think of a lot of matches that would have been better. But if the Nastys can perform consistently at this level, I'll be able to live with that. They've never been ones to do lots of whizzy, bangy offense or dramatic selling. So it's not like there was a lot of room for rust to accumulate in their game. Again I have to disagree. You have of Abyss being demoted and how awful that is. But that says to me one of two things. Either they think they are re-establishing Abyss by playing him off Holly. Um Anderson. Or they are trying to secretly bury Anderson by giving him a false sense of security. Either way I'm all for that. I really like the character Abyss has now. I enjoy seeing former monsters break out of that mold. See comedic Big Show. See Kane grappling with his career mortality. Abyss playing the mentally limited nice guy who agonizes over reverting back to his old monster ways is a compelling counter-balance to me. Abyss building his way back up to his former heights from his monster days in this post Dr Stevie world could be great stuff if they are just willing to run with it. And if it can come partially at the expense of Mr Holly (GAH!!) Anderson, all the better as far as I'm concerned. Agreed. There was the one crowd chant I kept trying to hear that I couldn't finally make out because of all the beeping. Sounded like it was either "Thank you, Angle" or "F you, Angle" Could never properly distinguish the verb. The only thing I liked about it is the fact they teased willingness to play Hogan as the monster heel by asking if he was directly involved in screwing Angle. If they are willing to do that and follow through, Hulk being the bad guy could be a very good sign for this Hogan/Bischoff regime.

I'd vote popularity. I've never had any problems with Jarrett's talent level.

Right on, Brudda. In fact, something just struck me as I was reading this. Remember the other thread recently about how great being presented by Ted DiBiase has been in WWE? And then Virgil came up. I was defending Virgil saying he wasn't as "horrible" as the one poster suggested. Noting that Virgil was the guy who happened to catch the right eyes the right way at the right time and it frustrated some folks because it wasn't their favorite guy instead. That's what I see in Anderson. He's Virgil to me. If he were the main eventer in an old-school ECW or an AWA level promotion, I doubt I'd have much issue with the guy. That seems to be right about where his skill set really fits in. But in a company like WWE or what TNA hopes to be, he's in over his head. Or at least it feels like he is. He's risen beyond where he fits in the grand scheme of things. Above his level of competence. In C-Verse terms, I see Anderson more as a world champion in USPW than I do an SWF or TCW. What I'd really like to see is him flop out of TNA and end up at the PWG level of the sport for the rest of his career. It's the fact he has just enough of a hook that the real-world promoters disagree and likely won't let that happen that frosts me when I see him. That hook seems to be the only thing that saves him from the exact same kind and level of hate that Virgil gets.

Dude, you're not going to sell me. I did see those. And out of character on Youtube, he may be great. But that stuff doesn't bear any relation to the personality he conveys on the job. The dude has never been able to make me care about a word he had to say when he was getting paid for it. You like the guy. I don't. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. The only way my perspective's going to change anytime soon is if he does himself by blowing my mind somehow. Short of that, he's probably going to have to craft a Tommy Dreamer/Team 3D type career and get the grizzled vet love from me somewhere around 2022.

No. Because he's a blond guy with the bone structure. And the build. And the underwhelming personality. And the lack of anything terribly special in the ring. The only things that really set him apart from a Holly family member are the incredible lung capacity and his ability to hold his last name so long you could rescue people trapped in canyons with it. Wake me when his part is over.

Oh goody. When's the rest of the Holly family gonna show up? And are they gonna have to go by Anderson as well now?

I know, I know. Probably a bit hopeful and unrealistic to expect that of a Russo writing team. But since the rush job is sticking out like a sore thumb here, I most likely would propose it to him. And then deal with getting laughed at afterward.

THANK YOU!! I was starting to feel like a voice crying out in the wilderness on this one. I get what to play Jarrett heel for being the old regime that "held TNA down". I get that he's reviled by the base for all the Internet/backstage reasons Brother Hilton cited. But I got whiplash from the breaks being applied so fast on the face Jarrett. Nothing's been done recently that makes him so incredibly heelish to want to hate him yet. Some man to man mocking of the roster he was supporting and cheerleading for the last year or two. That coffee cup line, good as it was, can be dismissed as heat of the moment by Jarrett apologists. Maybe beating Foley around and decrying the idea he used his grief over Jill as an excuse to just put up with him like that was a failing. Something genuinely hateful. Nebulous accusations that Bischoff would make about his own mother to get his way and taking a lawyer to his confrontation with much more profoundly sleazy Bischoff aren't going to cut it on their own. For those predisposed to hate Jarrett, all well and good. But are the newcomers really going to take Bischoff at his word when they've presumably seen how Easy E operates before? As one would figure most of the newcomers have if Hogan and his boys have the drawing power to be worth bringing on board in the first place. The concept of the turn is fine. I have no complaint on that front. But if it's really gonna take root, could we slow down and have Jeff treat people badly who don't deserve it first?

Probably something to that. My Jarrett fandom does go back to the Simply Irresistible days after all. And it probably doesn't help as far as all this goes that my cable company was playing cheeky little games with Spike's availability until shortly before the face turn. Which means I wasn't able to follow TNA with any kind of consistency before that. Had seen some of the heelish games he'd been playing with Sting. But not enough to have developed a firm grasp on heel Jarrett and properly hate him as such. And at that stage, I'll probably buy in more. After all, I try to watch as markishly as possible while it's on and save the smark stuff for after the show's over and I'm on a board like this. When the smarkish thoughts start to intrude on that focus, that's the WWE type moment I was describing. WWE has a terrible knack for distracting me that way.

Quoted for truth. And that's another part of why I feel the execution's off. I heard Bischoff's charges against Jeff on the Monday show and it sounded like just more typical unfounded Bischoff mudslinging. I'd probably have shown up with a lawyer in tow as well. At least in the story world of wrestling I probably would have. And really Bischoff's been the weasel so long I'm going to have to have more than just his say-so that Jarrett's such a snake that I should hate him as much or more than Bischoff. With what they've done so far, I know I'm supposed to think Jarrett's a bad guy. But he's going to have to be bad to someone more likable than Hogan and Bischoff before I'm sold. Throwing the young talent under the bus like he did is a start. But that's all it is. A start. It's just not translating for me on the strength of what's been on screen. Even with the Triple H-ish Internet rep, I tend to favor Jarrett. Always have. You want my inner mark to hate him, have him messing with AJ or Beer Money. Maybe Taylor and Sarita. People who represent what's right with the company. If the slimiest thing he does is lip off to Bischoff, then I'm still on Jarrett's side. And apparently, if I'm still on Jarrett's side, something's wrong.

All well and good. But ESTABLISH this. I'm not saying the concept is bad. It's the execution I'm balking at. Explain the dramatic shift and I'm willing to play ball. Develop the heelish corporate Jarrett more. Don't just throw him at me and expect me to bite. The more I have to think about what I'm seeing in the moment, the less energy I have to devote to caring. In other forms of entertainment, making me think is fine. In wrestling, just let me feel.

All well and and good as far as your point goes. But when they are changing a guy's character as dramatically as Jarrett's appears to be, I do expect more grounding into what's bringing about the change. From a smark perspective, your answer is perfectly reasonable. But when I'm watching the show, I want to drop the S as much as possible and just believe for the time the show's on. This promo left far too many questions in my mind I don't feel belong there. In my smarkish head, I know what's changed. In my markish heart, not so much. Dude, do you have any idea how bad a question that is? What's happening with the TNA reboot and how I'd handle a promotion in TEW is completely apples and oranges. I'm not one of these guys who feels I gotta change three quarters of the gimmicks and fire everyone who isn't a potential Cornell Day 1. So HAVE to? No. Not in the least. TEND to? Pretty much. I may push the guys I feel like pushing and eliminate the dead weight as I see it. But as much as possible, I prefer to play the junk off the scene rather than just flat out firing them. Take the transition of Jay Darkness into Danny Fonzarelli that Adam made in 08 for example. That was based on an alt request I made because I was planning to play The Dark Brotherhood and Painful Procedure off the landscape. I hated both gimmicks because they felt played out and wanted a TCW without them. But I wasn't about to just fire all the people connected to them because I saw potential for future uses once the old crusty gimmicks were clearly stripped away. So I set up the stable war of attrition that you may have seen in storyline mods as A House Divided. Now I suppose I could have treated my arrival as a reboot and just changed those guys around by fiat. But coming up with the stable war and the Jay Darkness/Nicole Kiss romance to spark the gimmick change was far more fun for me. But Bischoff and Hogan are far less paranoid about dramatic change than I am. So apples and oranges. And I acknowledged it was a good line. Just that the context in which is was used had me so far off balance trying to get on the page Bischoff and Hogan want me on that I couldn't properly appreciate it in the moment. It was just another "hold up there, dude" for me. Give me a feel for "what's gotten into Jarrett" and maybe I'll buy in. But as I post this, I wouldn't give you the empty water glass here on my desk for this version of Jarrett. Just too dramatic of an unexplained shift.

You know it's funny. Right from the beginning with the Hardys I was a Matt guy. Never quite got Jeff. But with these guys, I like the blond. He entertained me more in that one match than I remember Jeff Hardy ever doing. Jeff may have it all over him on Star Quality but I look more forward to seeing more "Jeremy". I agree that it was a cool match. Speed vs speed really makes the whatever weaknesses the guys may have with Performance Skills stand out less. Not saying either Generation Me or the Guns have those. I don't generally consider it my place to judge that unless it's glaringly obvious. But I loved the pacing and the fluid feel of the match. The two teams matched speed for speed beautifully. Rip either or both teams for Performance reasons if you want but that match was pure performance art. And there's very much a place for that on an undercard. The think that really got me with the whole Hardy-alike thing was MAX and JEREMY. REALLY? Did you really have to go there? I guess you can make it part of their gimmick that they sluff those names off later and claim to have used them because they were made to feel they had to. Although I will say if they want to play off the Hardy thing I would have marked hard if they had been called Frank and Joe.

Not so much here. I've tended to play along with that part of the entrance only because it fits the gimmick. Never been much of a booty guy. I figure if I'm looking at a girl's booty, I'm facing the wrong direction. Amen, Brother. Beer Money represents what's great about TNA. If they are fed to Hall & Nash? Well I won't be resort to the animal violence analogies you would but it's not going to be pleasant. Couldn't disagree me more. This was a a WWE type moment here for me. This was so bizarre and so far out in left field it shook me right out of the illusion and had me asking what the hell they thought they were doing. If the company's so bereft of talent, then why in God's name did he spend so much time fighting with the Main Event Mafia? Why didn't he just join them? He wouldn't have been the first guy to have suddenly gone from blood feuding with a guy to teaming up with him. And why did he endure (with all due respect) the mercurial nutburger that is Mick Foley? At least with the MEM, he'd have known from week to week whether they were going to shake his hand or kick him in the nuts. Jarrett's spent an awful lot of time defending the roster and fighting for them to suddenly find them unworthy. I thought this turn to be THE big failing of the show. It boggled my mind and made absolutely no sense. Being miffed at Dixie and Hulk I could understand. But turning on the talent? He's the one who put them together. If there "aint enough talent in this company to fill a coffee cup", he's undermining his whole case for being upset in the first place. He was so irrational and all over the place I was having to stop and try to puzzle out what the writers were thinking because I wasn't following it as Jarrett expressed it. The coffee cup line was a good one. But good zingers don't mean much if the context doesn't work and this context seemed to be sputtering for power.

I can believe Taylor as a "big girly mess" but man oh man that must have been mild compared to the waitresses who saw Daniels in that suit. The formalwear really suits him if you will pardon the pun.

Agreed. And it's not just because I try not to let technical match quality get in my way while I'm watching it. The way I look at it is this. Do I remember Tony Dorsett finishing up in Denver? Sure. But I give much more thought to all the awesome games he played in Dallas. Willie McGinest ending up in Cleveland stop me from marveling at his glory days in New England? Not in the least. I think most of this "hurt his legacy" talk really comes in how the player/wrestler will be perceived by those who came late to the party. I doubt Jbergey can really make the case anything Michael Jordan did in his prime was any less impressive because of what he did in Washington. It's just that those who got to the league late due to extreme youth or lack or prior lack of inclination aren't likely to get what all the buzz was about. And you know what? With places like ESPN Classic and Youtube out there now, there are outlets there for those who really care to try and get it after the fact a lot of us wouldn't have had when I was too young to get an athlete's greatness.

Count another who's not quite going to freak out about the old guys just yet. The folks who are all up in arms about about Hall and Waltman got more screen time than X, Shannon Moore got more mic time than Y, Jeff Hardy did more than Z, sound like the same folks who were griping about the whole Main Event Mafia story arc. But you know what? While you may be able to cite missteps along the path, they ended MEM just when they ought to have. At Bound For Glory. Let's see what all these folks are going to do and for how long. Because personally there are some combos for new and old I think could be a lot of fun to see in the short term. Like for instance, how about the Outsiders vs Beer Money? A notorious drunk and a guy who thinks like a tycoon versus guys who play both for the cameras. The authenicity of the Outsiders vs the character abilities of Beer Money could make for a good little feud. Or the Nasty Boys. With them in the fold you have a perfect excuse to test drive some new tag teams. Maybe have the Nastys steamroll through a few who don't work out. Then you debut those Young Turks or whatever the new signees are called, have the Nastys dismiss them as another throwaway only to secure their place by showing up the aging veterans. Having triumphed over one of the greatest tag teams of all time could be a good foundation for showing the Young Turks as egomaniacs if you choose to play them as heels. And at some point, I want to see both Knobbs and Saggs in with Jay Lethal. Perhaps you could have a Lethal Consequences vs Nastys match that the young guys win. So Lethal challenges them to be part of his legends invitational hoping to get it back on track after his losses to Neidhart and Tatanka. With all these veteran coming in with Hogan, they should really do something with that. With Val, I liked the interaction with The Beautiful People. Between the girls mocking the foolishness of the poker fad and the mixture of highly sexualized personas of both genders, they really upped the entertainment value of what could have been annoying throwaway segments. I want to see more of Val and TBP together. Is Val going to want to try and make them into his personal harem or is he going to embrace and accept the way they operate? Is he going to get jealous when they try stunts like seducing Slick Johnson for professional gain? And if he does, how do they respond? Will they crumble like Divas or try to scam some up and comer into eliminating Val? And there's the talk they have the Angelina problem worked out and she's coming back. How does she relate to Val in relation to the other three? Many good angles to be had here with the four (five?) of them. Heck, even the guy I didn't recognize as Orlando Jordan until I got on here could be useful. Since he's acting like he's got more name and face value than he really does, maybe he could be put in the ear of Consequences Creed. Thus Lethal has to fight Jordan for Creed's "soul" and the friendship that forms the basis of the Lethal Consequences tag team. Perhaps even an uneasy alliance between Lethal and Pope over Jordan the way Orlando dissed Pope on Monday night. If you want to grunt and groan over all the locker room politics stuff, that's your prerogative. But in the short term I'm willing to ride along with what they are doing with the veteran infusion. By this time next year will I be? Who knows? We'll have to see how things shake out. But backstage drama aside, there is the potential for some pretty good entertainment here in the short term. The better they do in playing to that fact, the more patient I will be. Since they were able to resist the temptation of over-extending the Main Event Mafia's life cycle, I'll give some benefit of the doubt here. But how long that lasts is up to them.

Still strikes me as a valid point. Jeff is rather a mercurial personality. It wouldn't at all surprise me for him to show up in TNA and only recognize the consequences later. Don't see any reason to EXPECT Jeff Hardy back in TNA so that part would surprise me. But speaking figuratively, it would hardly be the first time he leaped before he looked.

Then I guess I'm probably a permanent member of the Shut Muh Mouth Club as you propose it. I didn't have enough love for ECW to go looking up matches just to verify statements like this. Plus I never said he was bad. Just boring. Other than the trademark spots I mentioned, I've seen everything before from other Japanese talent who strike me as more impressive. He's like a wrestling case of Sugarloaf or The Fraze Gang. Don't call us. We'll call you. I'd like to say PUH. And may I add Lease. "Charisma" in wrestling terms tends to be code for showmanship. I usually don't make statements like this in athletic matters because I know better. BUT I probably have more showmanship inside me Tajiri does. I'll grant he is very good at being the silent but deadly Japanese Buzzsaw type. But anything calling for more charisma or showmanship than a mime routine? I'm feeling no on that. I'd rather watch Steve Blackman do that stuff than Tajiri and no one's going to accuse him of being a showman or charismatic any time soon.

I don't know. I've never been much of a Tajiri fan. He's always struck me as the heavy lumber kicks, a couple other notable spots and a lot of boring. Then again, as ex-"mutants" are so apt to point out I did only see him in WWE. I could think of worse plans for Kiyoshi. Like the way he's currently being used for example. I wasn't too big on this as a worked shoot. It felt a little too much like I was sitting in on Jarrett's therapy session. But then I had the same issue with some of the stuff Sting and Nash did about the lack of respect they felt from the young talent. So maybe I'm not the best one to ask about this topic either.

No, it wasn't just you. That was the only part of Smackdown I saw last night and I enjoyed that match immensely. I've always been a Hart Dynasty fan and the tag team chemistry between Yang and the Slam Master was pretty impressive too. I would hope a Yang/Slam Master push would be coming. That could only be a positive for the tag division on Smackdown. Neither Yang or Slam Master looks like they are anybody the E's going to get into a rush to push solo anytime soon. That makes them just the kind of team that needs to exist more in WWE.

Count another who's disappointed that Lauren's gone. She's probably the best female interviewer I've seen since the days of Bonnie Blackstone. Christy may have played a wannabe rock star in the Rock & Rave Infection. But she's having to follow a woman who was one. At least in the modern figurative sense. Other posters have mentioned her selling of abuse. But the heels didn't even have to get personal with her. Her frustration with their whole attitude was well played. And her kinship of spirit with the face Knockouts felt very warm and genuine. She just exuded credibility and made the company's story world so much easier to embrace. Christy's a cutie and it should help her transition that she's been with TNA for a good long while. But it will be ages if ever before she's of Lauren's caliber. As for Roxxi, I'm of two minds here. From a gimmick perspective, I too am glad to see her back. She should be able to have a really emotional rivalry with ODB since the drunken one is turning heel. And I can't wait to see her come across the The Beautiful People and see her in character reaction to Angelina being gone. Lacey determining to show Roxxi she can be just as mean as Angelina could be some good material as well. But her new look just doesn't work for me. It's not that she isn't attractive or anything. In fact, I found Roxxi to be the sexiest she's ever been in TNA. But it just isn't her. She's the Hardcore Knockout and she looks a little too girly for a blood and guts bruiser. What it could do though is be the perfect set up for the return encounter with the Beautiful People and to spark Lacey's feeling underestimated by Roxxi. TBP could suggest Roxxi has lost her edge and is having an identity crisis because she's cleaned up like this. Sort of the flip side of ODB's beef with Tara if you will.