cappyboy

Ditto. And that's why it's been so hard for me to watch WWE consistently for most of this decade. They don't seem to respect that. They seem to think that because they present themselves as "sports entertainment" rather than "wrestling" that they don't have to worry about things like show pacing or "maintaining the illusion". They make the shows so hard to just get absorbed in and stick with. Even when all the individual segments I see are ones I should have enjoyed, they don't connect in ways I want to wait through the R-Truth interview to get to the Shelton/Jamie Noble match or whatever. I'm always thinking about junk I shouldn't be when I watch WWE This is one of the reasons I tend to prefer TNA and will probably be watching them on January 4. Sure, they are every bit of sports entertainment-y as WWE is. But they do it so much better in my mind. There's so much more variety of action and things connect better. There's no wondering if I really want to slog through watching Beer Money face Kiyoshi & Bashir and Hamada battle Alissa Flash so I can see Desmond Wolfe face off with Matt Morgan in the match I really care about. The tag teams get love they don't in the E. As do the women. There's a better mix of material and a flow to Impact I just don't tend to see on Smackdown. Been years since my schedule would let me watch RAW with any regularity so I won't judge that show. But if WWE would just respect the illusion so I could shut my brain off and just be entertained, maybe I would rectify that.

I really have to disagree as far as firing Deaner goes. My feeling is it should be either Bashir or Kiyoshi. Neither one of those guys has been able to bring anything to World Elite since the group started. Deaner has much more potential to be useful. Why they haven't put him in a young dog/old dog team with Jethro Holiday yet is beyond me. Deaner has the personality to make Holiday interesting in the SE sense and Holiday could help Deaner brush up his ring skills. But Bashir's been garbage ever since the beef with Shane Sewell ended and Kiyoshi's totally wasted. Fire one of them and give the rest of World Elite a rallying point. Would make the coming clash between Beer Money and the British Invasion all the more heated and compelling if the Brits had something in their craw as well

Yeah well, remember I'm in my late thirties. When I would have learned [sic] was before students were using spell check on a regular basis. That's probably when the powers that be switched it to the current context. And now BHK, back, to complete a more direct tangent. Okay, dude. Let's try this. I could melt down again over the still somewhat snide appearance of your opening and foam at the mouth more. But that would only extend things. And that's not what anybody needs. But could you please try chilling out as I defined it? Could you work on self-editing a little for me please? I was just conceding to Lazorbeak last night that you might not have been TRYING to condescend to me and insult my intelligence or the era of my youth. Problem with that is you said it in dead text. Dead text alone can't always convey things lie tone and spirit of the message properly. Read at a distance, the tone that came through on the screen contradicted what you apparently intended. Some better word choice, a little tact on your end would have saved this detour. We've both shown how easy it is to go off half-caulked online. Sometimes even without first even meaning to. Not a problem, man. Glad I could help even in the midst of melting down. I gotta be honest there. That's a pretty hard trick to pull off. But yeah, once I cut through all the muddied water, I can see what you're saying. And I don't think it's a matter of having to agree to disagree as much as you're implying. That Ernest Miller and Mike Awesome stuff. All that was saying is "Okay. Thrill the teen boys all you want. But could I have a little something to hold onto while you do please?" That's what I was saying in the original post you appeared to object to. I was asking for the balance you seemed to think I was railing against. And you know, now that I think about it, there's an even better extension of your point than the one I made last night. Although I stand by it. The Beautiful People's relationship with Slick Johnson anybody? That mud wrestling bit didn't exactly happen in a vaccuum. It could be pointed to as expansion on the character development with Slick. Which in turn could serve as that something for me and the like minded to hold onto Anywho, I was boiling over because you seemed to be telling me what I thought, why it was wrong and trying to disabuse me of it. All in error. I don't let ANYBODY get away with that without having to re-solidify me. Probably 90% of the rare blowups I've had with my mom have been over that. That to me is the height of arrogance. And like I said last night, I don't suffer even the perception of arrogance well. Just work on that self-editing for me and that should be all the help I need not over-estimating your ego and repeating this performance. :: prays to God the next time he feels compelled to respond here isn't related to booking theory ::

I don't know, man. He was suggesting I didn't get one of the division's key gimmicks, felt he had to explain the place of bikini contests in wrestling and was under-estimating an era I'll admit I can be a little HYPER-protective of sometimes. And it was all seemingly coming of nowhere. If he'll chill a little and show a little more tact, I shouldn't have a problem lightening up. I guess we were taught [sic] differently then. When I learned it, it was essentially mistake insurance. Sort of "I know I'm spelling this wrong. But I can't remember the right spelling and am not comfortable disrupting my flow to find it." Fair enough I guess. At least they are as frustratingly common as they were ten years ago. But you know, if I may try to make his case for him and do it better, what he was saying should really boil down to two points. 1) it isn't all about me. I'll admit I can tunnel vision into my own entertainment sometimes because it's what I can attest to best and it's what's most likely to be determine whether my screen's staying on it or not. 2) For that teenage target audience he was citing, it is something new and different. If they have any kind of involved parents, they probably aren't allowed to watch most shows that would have highly sexualized content. Er go the bikini contest on the wrestling show is rather an end around to that. And of course, they aren't allowed in the Boom Boom Rooms and Galleries of Girls I as a long time adult can visit to see that stuff. So while I may have the options, they don't and I should have considered that. Those approaches, the second one especially, would have kept me much more on his side than presuming he had to explain the realities of programming to me. Well just as you were saying I seemed to be deliberately ignoring his point about wrestling being master of none, he seemed to be deliberately ignoring the part where I said where I can forgive racy segments I can see elsewhere if they serve a greater storyline purpose. So what was I supposed to think? I understand you're talking to talk me down because you feel I'm over-reacting. But the way I see it, he was over-reacting in his own right. He was jumping to conclusions that weren't there. And whether he meant to or not, he came off as incredibly condescending and arrogant in expressing the gulf of understanding he perceived. Perceived or actual, I've never suffered arrogance that well. But, Lazorbeak, to end things on a light note if I may. How many times is it now that you've posted to try and talk me down after I've over-reacted to another guy's over-reaction? I see a pattern starting to develop here in that regard.

Hoo boy where to begin with this. Do I get on you for condesending (sic) to me about The Beautiful People? Do I start with pointing out that by using DX as your parallel you're trying to defend you point with a group that annoyed me even more? Or merely mention that I've never watched anything that was shown on HBO and that I have to take your word on that part. I think I'll go with the accusation of missing the point of The Beautiful People. When did I ever say I didn't like the gimmick in general? Quite the opposite. I doubt I'd like the Knockout division anywhere near as much if there weren't any Beautiful People to represent what all the more competitively minded ladies find wrong with the wrestling scene. They are much needed counter-balance characters to keep people wanting the stories grounded in the ring. And it's never been quite what you describe in my lifetime. In the 60's and 70's sure. But in the 80's (the era my memory actually starts at) that recipe you're assuming I bow down at the altar of was crumbling. Sure you still had the jobber squashes until the Monday Night Wars started. But all that slow paced stuff is bunk. Anyone who paints the 80's as slow-paced as prior decades conveniently glosses over The Rock & Roll Express. And The Fantastics. Michaels and Jannetty as the MIDNGHT Rockers and so many other speedballs I could never properly credit them all. Sure you had the hosses and some technicians at the top. But to act like that's all there was is like dismissing the international midcard of WCW in the mid 90's or the X division in TNA because they weren't/aren't going for marquee belts either. And that's always been the case. If you think I have an issue with that, you're just hearing the typical IWC blinders and not hearing what I'm saying. I have NO PROBLEM with bikini contests and the like AS LONG as they mean something. I know the main reason is to appeal to the teenage male market you think you're trying to educate me to. But like I said, if that's all it does, then it becomes the same old, same old you're talking about. Something that's gettable darn near anywhere. You seem to think I'm responding like some prude who thinks the mud wrestling has no place on TV. Far from it. I'm more than willing to go along as long as there's an entertaining payoff. But if I can get the same bikini contest at the club across town, why should I stay home and watch wrestling chicks do it? Now if that same mud wrestling match can tittilate the teen boys AND give the wallowers a chance to mock their equally attractive (to their "chagrin") faces, all the better. Have the faces be offended by the mocking and challenge the wallowers to a more traditional match in response, you have gold. Assuming everybody's performed their role properly of course. You're talking to me about a balanced show? You're preaching to the choir. I'm the guy who was accused of being of a workrate junkie in 2000 but yet marked hard for Ernest Miller. I'm the guy who's always defended That 70's Guy gimmick of Mike Awesome's because he played it like he lived it. I'm the guy who's always grumbled on here about things that kept me FROM absorbing myself in the story world and believing in the balance of the illusion. Chill out. Relax. Understand this isn't a zero/sum game that I'm preaching here. I'm not looking for every show every company puts on be be puro/ROH serious. All I'm looking for is for every company's best reasons for me to keep watching them.

I don't know as it serious vs entertainment as such. It sounds to me like it's as much the who and the how. Which I can't really blame him for. Scott Steiner has been really good in the current gimmick of trying to hang on to the Main Event Mafia. And the pushups are an old school thing. So I probably wouldn't have quibbled about that so much myself. But Big Poppa Plump When You Cook Him isn't quite as a fun in general as he used to be. In the ring in particular, the guy has become dramatically played out. And I would imagine Condors is kinda like me. The personality stuff is probably most entertaining when it has the potential to lead to the ring in some manner. But as good as the Lashley/Steiner feud has been on the buildup side, the ring's not a place I want to see Steiner any more than I have to these days. So from that end, I can see the pushup segment missing something. As for the mud wrestling match, here's the question. Why do we NEED to turn on TNA to see that? In my mind, we don't. That's why you have establishments like The Boom Boom Room and JB's Gallery of Girls. To go out into your town and see hot chicks bump and grind or roll around in slippery stuff. As hot as Lacey Von Erich and Velvet Sky may be, I want to see different stuff from them when they are on my TV screen. They want to stay over an extra day or two after Impact's been here so they can mud wrestle at JB's, I'm down with that. But on TV, I want to see something I wouldn't be able to otherwise. If it builds up to a more traditional type of match, I'll be forgiving. But mud wrestling and bikini contests on wrestling shows for their own sakes bore me. They just aren't special enough to be worth the time.

Hey man, looking through the thread and love the work I've seen. Was wondering if you could whip up a couple for me. Little independent company looking logos I can use in my training fed games. When I train up the women, I use the promotion name Wrestling Ladies In New England. Or WLINE for short and my show name of choice is Riding The WLINE. So if it could have a train feel somehow that would be awesome. And in my current training game, I'm training the men and working out of Canada under the name GNW or Great Northern Wrestling. So something that would say Canadian minor league. Both are promotions in modern time and there's nothing risque or edgy about the product. So hard and edgy is out. Just basic little starter promotions where the only influence above Low is Traditional.

Don't forget "zort" which he is probably mishearing as "dork"

BUST!!! Thank you, Brother Comey. I do so hate this little web gag. I've seen it since my RSPW days and I've never failed to be annoyed by it. You said what you meant. Something like this is cute and clever once or twice. But as often as it happens around the net it's just bad manners. Sadly because of the anonymity manners and Internet postings seem to be mutually exclusive. On a more relevant note to the board, I'm really pumped for the developer's journal to pick up steam. It may not move at the pace Brother Ryland's does for TEW 08. But I'm confident Arlie will have some good stuff for us and I really hope to be near the head of the line when the game hits.