smartman

Okay, first, my earlier comment was a little harsher than I meant. Sorry if that offended you. My point basically was that with juggling that many stats and the fact that we are ingrained from Kindergarten that the average between 2 numbers is automatically calculated in our heads that it is too easy for that to leak into your thoughts when rating people. Clearly from your answer, that isn't the case. We can just agree to disagree though on just what a sub-66 selling rating means. You seem to view it as "They weren't known as great sellers." where I, and the game, view it as "These guys couldn't sell worth a lick which was always remembered by people watching the match". Think of it as when two giant guys are doing that whole trading 7 punches or so each with neither budging. Now, that's by design, but that is what a match between two people who aren't at 66 looks like for the entire match until the loser basically falls down and gets pinned/submits. Again, I get where you're coming from, but what you're actually saying is that a lot of those guys couldn't sell worth a darn which isn't your point. The safety thing was just mentioned because it is dramatically lower than anyone else's. If it doesn't produce any more injuries, then that's perfectly fine. As was noted by snakes, I think you're confusing Safety, which is how well the wrestler can do their moves without hurting their opponent, Stiffness, which is how hard they hit (so a stiff worker is going to cause more damage with their opponent needing more recouping before working again because they're sore as hell), and Match Intensity/Danger. Here's how I break these down. A wrestler is going to hit a Steamboat/Flair chop. A low safety wrestler--there's a good chance he's going to miss and break the guy's nose. A stiff wrestler in a low intensity fed--the chop is going to hurt the wrestler a little bit vs other than turning the guy's chest a little red, nothing happens with an average stiffness and low intensity fed A stiff wrestler in a 40%-60% intensity fed (what the default for an equal fed usually runs)--the chop hurts like hell and maybe causes the wrestler to lose his breath while his chest turns beet red. Add in an unsafe wrestler and there's a chance he misses either breaking the guy's nose badly or even hits him in the adam's apple potentially killing him. An average stiff wrestler in a 40-60 intensity fed--the chop hurts and turns the chest red but nothing more. The Match Danger rating should be low because they weren't really doing dangerous moves like they started doing in the early 90's. Some moves looked dangerous but really weren't. As for the rest, the guy I pegged for Road Agent was George Gadanski as he's not a good wrestler, but he's awesome in the locker room. He had like a 79 or so psych before, now a 66. I can't say what the default breakdown was as again, a bunch of the old guys got tossed due to time decline (but I think they're all not good) but here's the list now. Main Eventers Bill Watts--66 (which I think is a downgrade) Pass Billy Red Lyons--81 Pass Dr. X--63 Fail Carpenter--85 Pass (usually on my time decline though) Harley Race--69 Pass (starts at UMC though) Luis Martinez--64 Fail Mad Dog Vachon--59 Fail (and he's the top rated heel) Verne Gagne--54 Fail (Top Face and World Title holder) Upper Midcarders Angelo Poffo--76 Pass (usually on TD and first game I've kept him actually) Von Raschke--61 Fail (and at 29 probably not ever hitting 66 that hurts as he's one of the few good young guys at the top of the card you start with) Blackjack Lanza--66 Pass (at 34 he's close to slipping and -0.1 means he switches to fail) Butcher Vachon--64 Fail (so the tag champs no sell every match) Larry Hennig--62 Fail Luke Graham--71 Pass (Did you tweak him a lot? I've never kept him before.) Pepper Gomez--65 Fail That's 7 out of 15 (Not counting Pat Patterson who I signed) again, after a heavy culling of time decliners (Bobo and Joe S. both selling in the 50's). The biggest issue is that you're going to have to go outside of your roster to give the titles to people who can carry them unless you want to give everything to Harley Race (and/or Dusty Rhodes when you start with as the UC). I'm jobbing Dr. X out before letting him go (way too much pop to just release), Verne has to drop the title pronto (he's actually on the 3-4 years past his prime TD list though that selling makes him worthless) before being jobbed out until he becomes the RA, Hennig would be fired if not for being Harley's best friend, same for Red Bastien (midcarder) who can't sell who will be in tag teams until I dump him. The good news is that there are now a lot of good wrestlers who can sell and call in the ring now that replacements are readily available. The Vachons really hurt as I could see them running with those tag belts for a long time, and a feud with the Blonde Bombers could be a Midnight Express vs RnR Express-level decade long one. Now, Butcher is going to leave when his contract is up while I shift Mad Dog to either CC or Manager.

Okay, looked things over again. Here's my thoughts. 1. I think the AWA needs to be re-named NSW as in No-Sell Wrestling as pretty much their entire UMC and ME guys will get that no-sell note every single match. Thankfully, I think, this game had almost all of them in time decline so they all got canned and replaced by a bunch of people who can sell and call in the ring. 2. The psych upgrades are great. Lots more people now show up when you search for Good/Great In-Ring Workers under 40. Not happy at all that you downgraded my go-to guy for Road Agent. 3. I really wonder if you fully grasp how the numbers work in the game though. It's mainly the fault of all the math we learn. You see a 0-100 scale and immediately go "Oh, 50 is average.". That's not the case in the game. It is pretty much pass/fail where 66+ is pass, and anything below 66 means they're rubbish (top row excluded). So, a 63 Selling doesn't mean that they're a normal seller during the match. It means that they're no-selling during the match all the time. A 40 and a 65 are the same rating there for game purposes. And another thing that has plagued mods since the dawn of TEW is that they see that and go "Oh well all the big guys no-sell all the time thus a 50 is perfect for them." when it is their character no-selling. I mean there is a very good reason the penalty for no-selling in a match is pretty severe. It means the match is only remembered for how bad it was. I mean if no punch was sold or a submission hold had the guy laughing, we'd all think the guy sucked. 4. I bring that up with respect to your safety ratings. There are so many 50's. Heck, most people I saw were in the 50's. Those are very unsafe workers. I sure don't remember that many guys in the C-Verse with those low a rating in 2010, and I don't remember that many in any mods I have played either. Maybe the 66+ doesn't apply to Safety, but those are abnormally low compared to everyone else. I just don't want a ton of guys picking up injuries, which is what I'm thinking is going to happen. 5. The Rodger Kent thing still needs fixing. Quite simply, the game demands a Color Commentator, which isn't realistic, but there are only 2 when you search (Dave Brown being the other). This means there are literally 10+ feds that go to hire him first thing because evidently they don't have one. He's literally the most valuable person in the game. Honestly, I'd be fine if you just named them Color (Wrestling Fed) and gave them 70 Charisma (needs to be high enough so they don't try to replace him). Not sure Loyalty to AWA would stop it as they're mostly PPA deals though the AI sure does love giving out Exclusive PPA deals, especially PCAC. The mod still looks great. Just a little more tweaking, mainly the safety, and it will be darn near perfect.

"What ya gonna do, brother, when Hulkamania can't go up a ladder!" Can't wait for Pillman's title reign as neither Hogan nor Luger can climb that ladder.<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Especially when Sting yo-yo's the title away if by some miracle one of them can.

<p>I'm looking forward to the new update too. This is such a fun time to run a promotion. Can't wait to see what changes you've made.</p><p> </p><p> And to the comment "You can always change stats around.". That's true. You can also draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Doesn't mean you should. My view of any mod is that it is a work of art, and I don't think I should be fiddling with other people's works of art. I only make exceptions if the modder tries something that just doesn't work with the game (see Genadi's accurate, yet game-killing drug settings). I feel that if you go in and change a bunch of stats that you're crapping on the mod. Just make your own, or the better option is to play one of the other 20 or so mods here instead. That's why I made that long post about what Mammoth was trying to say with his mod. It's his mod and his vision of what that era was. Who am I (or anyone else on here) to go change that vision? That's why everything I was saying was how the game is going to interpret his data and making sure it would sync up with his thinking.</p><p> </p><p> Sorry, just wanted to get that off my chest.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think the best thing for you to do Mammoth is to put each of the available USA workers in WWWF (only Cult fed at start) one or 5 at a time that you want to be able to call in the ring, bump their NE or Tri-State pop to 85-90 and run a few matches where they are clearly the higher psych wrestler in a 16-30 minute match with call in ring and slow build (you may have to drop the latter if the opponent isn't good enough). Then keep adjusting up their psych rating until they stop getting dinged, then add a few more points for National as anyone starting a game will, realistically, max out there, though maybe AWA could hit International with their Canada deal. You could tweak their top row skills too as you go if the results (minus random chemistry notes) are too low for what you want them to be.</p><p> </p><p> As for the mod as a whole, it depends on what you want to say. If you want to say, "Clearly without Hulk Hogan's awesomeness and once in a generation ability and Vince's creativity/vision, wrestling never would have broken into the mainstream.", so obviously everyone that came before him can't be as good, that's fine. Make sure no one can go higher than Cult because no one can get an 80-85 main event consistently. That's a legit thought. There are evidently a ton of people that want to be stuck at Regional (what I gathered from Al's 1983 mod when I brought that up) so you'll still have an audience. However, it will need to be tweaked if you're going into this with the thought of "If only someone had had any vision or creativity, what Vince did could largely be replicated earlier with a few guys filling that role (tweaked for the era minus the closed circuit boost).". There just isn't that guy there other than Dusty and maybe Harley with future Flair lurking (I don't think Baba or Inoki could have had any chance. Way too many racists running around.). At least that's what the mod is saying right now. Personally, I would add Bockwinkel and both Funks to that list and a 20 year old Piper (can you tell I'm a huge Piper mark?) of the already debuted wrestlers. As a CWA baby, no, Lawler couldn't. Just too small. Sorry, King.<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

Oh goody, I just love when things change, and everyone gets complete amnesia on what they told people. So, if what Adam said was true, in TEW10, then why did he and numerous other people tell me that that was specifically my problem with my TCW game? That's the reason I quit that game because I had only 5 or 6 guys (and that 83 was THE cutoff there) that could main event anything once I hit Global without the match getting hammered by the lack of psychology note. See, I didn't invent those numbers out of thin air. I got TOLD that by several of the key people on this forum back during 10. And furthermore, my RTG diary game in 10 that I abandoned really comes into play here because frantic is right. If your psych is low enough compared to what the match rating is, you'll get that every single time with time having nothing much to do with it. You have to get high 70's-low 80's in the home area to not lose ground with any of the feds in the game, and as you have wrestlers gain pop which will lead to higher match ratings, you'll be seeing almost no one getting away with calling a match in the ring. The match will rate in the high 80's or low 90's, be compared to a mid-to-high 60's psych rating, and get nailed. So, Adam and I are really both right. There probably isn't a set number (though you have to have 66 or you fail every single time even in a 6 minute match), but it is really set by their pop (if you're doing equal or either pop>perf). Considering the default match lengths (not incorrect at all btw), almost none of those guys is going to avoid that note in the main event once they hit 80-90 pop (and many start at 70-80 so that will be a breeze). See, the top row doesn't matter nearly as much as Psych. It has always been that way from the first TEW. That has been the very most important stat. So yeah, Bockwinkel has some good top row stats, but he can't main event a Cult fed if said Cult fed wants anything but low 80 matches. That's really what that list was. People who can get you high-80's to mid-90's in the main event. There are precious few of those in the game solely because of their low psych. A wrestler with a psych of 85 with mid-to-high 50's in top row is a much, much better wrestler than someone with a 66 psych and mid-70's top row simply because one will never get hit with that psych penalty. Really, that high top row with low psych is worse because that's ensuring that psych penalty. Oh, and Jaysin, since you think I'm making everything up I post on here, I'm pretty sure I still have that TCW game in 10. I'll email it to you, and then you can see I'm telling the truth when Ino, Rocky, Tornado and Wolf (unless I edited him up) can't main event a match (with them being the high psych wrestler) without that penalty. I know I have that RTG game where any match that was going to be in the 80's got nailed in my Regional/Cult fed. Everything I post is from personal game experience and what people directly told me.

Those Performance Row skills don't strike me as one of the Top 5 wrestlers of the 70's (68/73/67/68/61) and at age 35, I doubt any of them are going to go up. Hell, Bill Watts is better than that at age 30, and I didn't realize he was a top wrestler. That's barely able to call in the ring at Cult, which as long as they keep their TV deal, they'll easily reach. There just isn't a great list of keystone wrestlers to build around. Under 40 wrestlers that are sorted (with Fog off) as Great in-ring workers that are US people (so no Inoki or Baba or the Mexicans) is this. Dory Funk Jr (28yrs)--working everywhere and a booker Boris Malenko (36yrs)--way better than Bockwinkel btw and 1 year older, though 63 SQ hurts (and that's fine btw) Eddie Graham (39yrs)--64 selling means he's out and soon to own CWF+booking right now Gorilla Monsoon (32)--63 selling and loyal to WWWF so he's out Jack Brisco (28)--He's really the only option as the 63 selling should grow to at least 66 easily, but he's got a 63 SQ (that's a little iffy imho). Ray Stevens (34)--If you want a 6 year older choice than Brisco, pick Ray. He's better in every way though only a brawler so his tech skills aren't on par. He's already got a yellow body though. The Spoiler (28)--Not a likeable fellow in the locker room, 61 Selling, 71 Psych means he might be able to call in Cult. The other two options that aren't on that list. Dusty Rhodes (24)--Better than pretty much anyone in the game. Just need to up his top row stats. Really no other choice than to start with him as the avatar. He's just too awesome compared to everyone else. (81/89/74/71/67) plus 91 SQ and almost 80+ mic skills. Harley Race (26)--Little better top row, little worse in selling and mic skills. There just seems like there aren't enough stars to carry all of the feds or even half of them. I'm not really criticizing your ratings as they were probably accurate given the era, but they just won't play well in the game. Again, the psych breakdown to call in the ring is (Regional/Cult/National/Int/Global)--66/73/77/82/88, and of course the selling is 66 (not sure if it goes up but I don't think so). With that said, I think Snuka's Psych is just way too low at 37. Not sure he'll ever reach even 66 much less 73. Also, what did Wahoo ever do to you? (56/66/82/57/64) Performance row with a 46 Athleticism. This means he can barely call in the ring at Regional and will always get dinged for lack of selling. That's just lousy. I'd send that guy to development if he wasn't already 31.

Okay, I tinkered with it last night, and here are a few things that need to be fixed. 1. The big one is somehow CWF's TV deal is screwy. They have a deal with a Mid-Atlantic (only) TV station and a deal with a Canadian (all) TV station. I don't know if they're right, but you notice that any coverage in the South East is missing which can't be right. 2. You missed Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel when upping Selling. Honestly, Nick isn't very good at all in the game, and I'd never hire him as he is right now (even with the bump in Selling I gave him, remember it is 66+ or they get dinged every single match). Seems really, really odd to say that when I'm running AWA. 3. The Dory/NWA Title thing has already been mentioned. I think the belt is what needs to be changed. It is set to Light Heavyweight meaning no Middleweight can ever carry it. Ric Flair is not amused. 4. I couldn't find an EMLL logo in the pic pack. And it feels very fitting, but it is a little hard to keep straight in my head that every 3rd US fed is Big Time Wrestling, including the PCAC logo. Again, it is all correct just hard to get my head around. I can imagine someone flying from Dallas to San Francisco and getting confused.

One quick note. The links are backwards (Pics are the data and data are pics). Look forward to trying this out tomorrow.

If you're going to leave Realism where it will crap on gimmicks, that's fine, but the starting gimmicks need to be set so they won't be horrible because that's something the user can't do anything about. I'm fine with something not working in the game as long as it makes sense and can be mitigated by the user. Honestly, I wish there was a way to have an equal fed that had no gimmicks because other than the standard "Evil Foreigner" there weren't really gimmicks (basically everyone was Old School Face or Heel) until Vince in the mid-80's. The monsters looked like monsters; the fans didn't need to be told they were monsters. And that's the problem with Realism crapping on gimmicks as those are usually (not in this mod as they can be any type) Wholesome and Unique, or Brute, and 2 of those don't work with Realism evidently. So you end up having to change things for the sake of a setting. I guess I'll just have to suck it up and run Modern at Medium then along with creating a CC user character (granted I usually do that anyway). It's 40/40 instead of 50/10. Looking forward to all the changes you put in Mammoth. Oh and Piper is already in the game at 15 years old (you seemed to think he didn't per your answer earlier).

Oh the gimmicks are fine. I never worry about people's gimmick ratings, though there were a few at 60 difficulty that I don't think they would be that difficult to pull off, but again, that doesn't really matter. You've got like 1,000 in there to pick from so that isn't the issue. I honestly don't know what to do with the Product. If you go with what used to be my favorite product, that introduces some problems. Modern at Medium spits out a 40/40 Danger/Intensity that is not a good idea when everyone is working for multiple feds. Realism just kills gimmicks of all kinds, and you can't run a US fed that doesn't do gimmicks because of how TV is at this time. Mainstream does absolutely nothing but determine if you run storylines or not. With the starting pop of all the feds, you have to be an equal fed or you're killing your home area as no one has the pop to pull that off (which the worker pop settings are good btw). I wonder if you might want to lower them to around 60-65 there just keep the spillover in there. If that's the roster, then that's the roster. Let the user cut the people. It isn't like there are a bunch of positive relationships you are messing up. Just odd to see a pre-set roster for a Regional fed that huge. I do suggest putting in a weekly "House" show unless it really unbalances the game with everyone making a ton of money. A)That's very historic. TV was basically there to sell the tickets to the weekly show. B)It's hard to accomplish anything with just 1 hour of TV (and yeah, 1 hour is what everyone got with 3 matches but the game really can't simulate the TV of that era as they were basically B shows). Oh, and the backstage rating was never that bad. After hiring the 2nd Anderson, it was 87 (84 without him) so no problems there either.

Downloaded and thought I'd give AWA a spin. Here's a couple of notes after running a show. 1) I've never started a game with so many wretched gimmick ratings. I know why too. That Realism at Medium just kills them. When I dropped it down, I ended up being able to change the gimmicks to ones that worked. The problem being that I couldn't change all of them as the randomizer said a bunch were too early to change leading to a ton of dings. 2) That roster is massive especially when they only have one 1 hour TV show and nothing else to do. Not to mention their starting match lengths (looks like you did most everyone that way) so 3 matches is pretty much the max. The AI doesn't have to worry about the locker room ticked off though like the player does. I ended up cutting a lot of people and signed only Gene Anderson (tag team), Snuka, Colon, and Volkoff to get down to 37 (one got switched to Road Agent because Carbo isn't going to cut it) which is still too many. 3) Back to #1, it kind of stinks that there is no way to do an equal fed without having either Realism or Modern at Medium. The former has gimmick problems, and the latter seems just horribly wrong for the era. Pure doesn't work at all in the US (No mainstream TV which I didn't check but most of the networks in the game should be that). And oh boy do you have to have equal. I had the pop>perf that I had run in the 83 mod game (minus the Heavy Mainstream), and I popped a terrible 64 (with 2 tag team matches with all 4 having tag experience and 2 having tag chemistry with it being ME/UMC vs MID2 and ME2 vs UMC/ME). 4) That leads us to the biggest problem. I honestly have no idea if the selling ratings you gave the upper mids and main eventers are correct or not, but they don't work in the game. They need to be 66 or better for the game not to crap all over the match, and I saw a lot of C's and D's. I'm not saying no one was a bad seller back then, and maybe AWA is the outlier here, but that needs to be addressed. 5) There seems to be a dearth of out of the ring workers in the US, anyway. My CC guy ended up with like 12 offers in that first week alone, and unless I put Heenan there, he's irreplaceable as in there is literally no one available without stealing one from another fed. The only manager that could be a face got stolen from me days after signing with me by an Exclusive PPA too. So did Bockwinkel though that was my mistake not realizing that not everyone else is in the NWA. All in all a fun mod. Oh, and there are several missing promotion logos and TV logos though you probably knew that already. They're the dead promotions so you might not have any to pull from. I'd suggest just putting their name, just anything is better than a blank space.