MrCanada

I'm not saying Orton didnt break character, just playing the "other side of the fence roll". But two things: 1. If Orton was so mad because of a screw up by Kofi, and is so anal about finishes, staying in character, ext. as its been said here and reported on "news" sites, why would he then break character? 2. When did a magical rule come to be that you arnt to say anything when a referee raises your hand? For that moment you should be completely mundane?

Well I'm pretty sure he might be debuting with EVOLVE wrestling on their debut show....

I found it completely in character. Him calling Kofi stupid seems to be a very Orton to do. Kofi is stupid for thinking he's on Orton's level. He's stupid for not anticipating the Legacy run in. He's stupid for thinking there was disillusion in Legacy like all of us. Everyone is stupid for thinking Orton wouldnt once again compete for HIS WWE championship.

That doesnt really matter. If you sign a contract, you sign a contract. You also must remember when someone is fired, they do get the rest of their guarantee paid from the company. Thats usually a good chunk of change, and it isnt paid at once, usually paid out over some duration of time in comparison to the length of the deal. Granted in wrestling, most people the guarantee is a fairly low figure (still decent) but being on TV/PPV, merch sales, even house show's is what earns them extra green. So the 90-day makes sense so its not like the person is without income. Also this (be it no-compete or just weird contract clauses) is common practice in many lines of work, especially entertainment. Look at the Conan/Leno situation on NBC. If Conan leaves, NBC still owes him money. If he goes to another network, NBC STILL has to pay him the differance of his deal (20 million a year) and whatever he makes on a new network (say 12 million on Fox as a guess). Meaning NBC still has to pay him 8 million a year, to work on another network. Thats an example of someone who signed a deal that worked in their favour, and no one will complain about that, because this time its "the man" getting the shaft.

No Compete clauses are different contract-to-contract. The standard 90-day no compete clause that WWE makes you sign means you cant compete for promotions in North America with national DVD distribution or national TV/PPV deal. WWE doenst care about guys going to Japan, and actually most of the time, when releasing someone they think they may re-hire or they like, try to help them get into Japan. However their are different versions of everything. Lesnar, for example, was forced to sign a 5-year no compete, no where clause, in any form of wrestling/combat (including MMA). He signed the deal to get his release and what was later argued in court was the no-compete clause was to intense and Brock signed the deal out of distress. So the deal was reverted to allow work outside of the Continental North America, and MMA.

am I the only one terrified by the fact Big E Langston is perfectly symmetrical? ORIGINAL http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/wilhelmce/big_e_langston.jpg SYMMETRY? http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/wilhelmce/mirrorman.jpg

Its sports entertainment!

More Releases Late last night word of a handful of WWE developmental releases were officially announced (some were assumed earlier). That brings the new count of recent releases since the beggining of January to: * Shane McMahon * Tommy Dreamer * Gabriel (Steve Lewington) * Sweet Papi Sanchez (Black Pain / Jose Torres) * Dino Carter (real name Rashad Goff) * Chris the Bambikiller (Christoph Herzog) * Lennox McEnroe (Bryan Wilcott) * Lift Swayner (Aaron Reed) * Leroy Morgan (Max McGuirk) * Dylan Klein (John Elliot / Johnny Riggs: Apparentely requested his release, I read somewhere it had to do with family stuff) - And all the other news sites seems to report what I did yesterday, that Richie Steamboat has officially reported to FCW. - I also just discovered that Jim Duggan's peformers contract with WWE officially expired in 2009. He still has a legend deal and could see him easily coming back should WWE want him. ----------- I have to admit I'm kind of shocked at some of those releases. Rashard Goff is a former colligiate wrestler (thats a plus) and is a big 285, so he's up with Lesnar & Hager in size, and he was only down in development since maybe late summer, or fall. I doubt he could be progressing THAT slowly to get released, so possibly it was a dedication thing. Dylan Klein showed a lot of promise, but obviously it seems he was prompted to leave for his "real" life. Shame, hope its temporary, but then again, who's seen Monty Brown since he left for family reasons? Lennox McEnroe was getting good reviews from fans, from what I read. And it actually a wrestler with independent experiance, despite probably not being known by many people. He portrayed a pretty cool Mordecai-esque gimmick on the indies. I'm sure he'll keep working local stuff, but I dont see him doing the ROH/TNA think. Lift Sawyer, is a shame only because his name. Like Goff though, he's only been down in FCW for less then 6 months I'd say. However he doenst have the wrestling background Goff had, so this makes sense. I also didnt read anything thrilling about him online, and from all I can tell, he didnt wrestle all that much anyway. Leroy Morgan, like Lift, didnt wrestle all that much. However he had apparentley migrated to the announce booth along with Derrick Batemen as the play-by-play man to Bateman's colour commentary. So I'm assuming his in-ring stuff was pretty bad. But now who's going to announce FCW? Dusty & Bateman? Bambikiller. Kind of saw that happening a while ago as he dissappeared from FCW and was back in Germany for over a month, maybe too. Kind of shame. Big guy with a good look and indy experiance. Even a tour or two (or more) of NOAH under his belt. I'm sure he'll keep trucking in Europe & Japan and I expect we'll hear from him again. Increased exposure could see NOAH come knocking again soon.

I might mist Papi. His black pain character, or even the Sweet Papi character (go a bit more Godfather with it), would fit in perfectly in 2000. But its 2009. I'm sure he'll end up making a find living still though, as he is a big name in Puerto Rico and seeing him in Japan or TNA isnt the strangest thing. Its funny that this time of year is the year a lot of unknown, but decent, talent becomes available for TNA, and its sad that they already have such a bogged down roster. How good would Gabriel be in the British Invasion? Boot out Terry. (wrong thread I know)

Because you are one person. Its one thing to state your opinion. Everyone is entitled to it. I'm not a huge WWE fan right now and most of what I watch is stuff I read about that I find interesting on the internet after RAW or whatever airs. However that said, and stemming from the "popular v. better" arguement, one person's view of 'better' means nothing! Mine doesnt. Yours doenst. Because what you believe to be 'better' isnt 'popular'. Thats why the WWE will never appease the internet. ROH appeases the internet. How successful are they? Are they better to you? Maybe. But the millions of people who pay money into the WWE machine think they are better. So more people (because they are popular) watch WWE, and because of that MORE people would say they are better. Therefore, WWE = better. Whether that is your opinion or not. (thats how the "free" world of democracy works) This isnt forcing anyone to say "yeah! In my opinion, they are better!" its about self realization that you (and me) arnt that special. And sometimes you just have to admit "I'm the minority, to a lot of people I guess I'm wrong, but I'm happy with who I am. But in the long and short of it, I can see and understand why WWE must be viewed as better to more people." EDIT: Its just like you are voting in an election. If your side loses, you understand that means MORE people think the other side makes better points, or has the better interest of whatever at hand. So you bite your tongue and say "Okay. Lets see how they do it." You still have your guy on the sidelines with some power via voting within a senate or what have you. Just as in wrestling you have wrestling on the side you can watch. But you have to bite your tongue and go. Yea, WWE won, that means they are more popular, and therefore better. Or you can be one of those people yelling at town hall meetings.

I read it online and think its the best name of all time, so when ever referring to an imaginary person for effect, I now use that name.\ EDIT: ANOTER RELEASE! According to Pwinsider.com, WWE released developmental talent Sweet Papi Sanchez yesterday. Sanchez previously worked in Puerto Rico as Black Pain.

what did I start... Haha. I think the two sides of the coin have both been stated. Deciding what site you are on is all thats left. Either heads) You have to, have to, have to, admit a connection between measurable facts and figures being the ultimate sign of what is "best" whether it agrees with your personal opinion or not. or tails) Your opinion is all that maters, in which case, local wrestler Harvest Grayson is the best wrestler in the world and anyone who argues otherwise is a goshdarn idiot.

New thread possibly? haha. I personally think you have to say popular = better. At least from where I live. I'm born and raised in Canada so I can only speak for what I know and thats democracy (I'm told thats what we have). In a democracy, the popular vote is the one that wins. Being "better" would assume you are also the "winner", to some extent at least. I mean, I'm like a lot of people, especially on an internet board like this, especially as a 22-year old white male. I prefer often the stuff that isnt on the radio, or isnt the highest rated TV show, or isnt the most popular wrestler, or what have you. To me, Jack White is WAY better then Bono. Evan Bourne is one thousand times better then John Cena. Survivorman (look it up) is WAY better then How I Met Your Mother. I want to get that out of the way, and make sure if you are going to attempt to tear me a new one you note that I'm not a "POP CULTURE! YAY!" person. Anyhow, to often I think people confuse opinion with fact or truth, especially in the recent times of "we're all special!" and the internet where you can say whatever you want. Whenever you want to argue that something is better then something else, you have to measure whatever is measurable between them. For TV shows, its ratings. For movies its box office & dvd sales. For music you have to look at record sales & concert attendance/money grossed. You cant measure how awesome Jack White is. Even if I give him 5 Stars on some scale i made up in my head and 2 stars to Bono, that doenst measure on a wider plain to anything else.

You're kind of backing off your argument that WWE is completley botching the developmental system arnt you? haha. This could easily, maybe already has, become a decent debate on what makes a wrestler "good". By that arguement, I would argue The Spirit Squad are better wrestlers then anyone in ROH.... Because they probably have sold more merchandise then any person on the roster from a brass-tax money stand point. Especially if you count PPV DVD's and PPV buys that they were on. They are also better wrestlers because more people know them. More people know who "Mikey of the Spirit Squad" is then Davey Richards. So Mikey > Davey Richards!

If you could do that do you count WWE replays too? Outside of the highlight shows? I know up here, RAW airs 9:15-9:30 and then replays from 12:00-2:00am right after (well there's 30 min of sports highlights). EDIT: I think I like this method of judging things though. By that arguement, if you add up all the cheers Amazing Red has EVER received in his wrestling career (from post-TNA when he debut in like 2000-until today) he is technically more over then Hogan was Monday in the impact zone, and therefore is the more over wrestler.

I'm assuming he was discussing WWE-success. I think ANYONE in wrestling who spends more then a blink (like a squash match) on WWE TV is a success to an extent. People way to often (and as I've said, me too) think the only way someone isnt a bad wrestler is if they are Bryan Danielson (or a worker who typically has interent-friendly matches) but you have to admit, whether you like it or not. There's a reason Benoit/Jericho/Guerrero/Angle never reached the heights of Hogan/Rock/Austin/Andre the Giant (aka becoming popular culture). I dont think anyone would say the last 4 are as good wrestling as the first 4, but the last 4 make more money and are more known in wrestling... so doenst that in some stupid way make them the best wrestlers? (NOTE: I would rather watch Benoit vs. Jericho any day of the week. But I'm simply stating a fact. Just as I prefer the White Stripes, I must admit U2 is doing something better then them because they sell more records, which permits the argument they are the better band)

I think they are all decent. Maybe Jackson/Kozlov are a little on a crap side. But Orton/Cena/Batista are three of the biggest stars in wrestling today. That means they have skill. I admit I do what most people on the internet do as well, I prefer a bit more of the indy style myself, but you have to bite the bullet sometimes and think "there's a reason Cena sells how many millions of dollars in merch and Bryan Danielson doesnt. The Miz was still in development after being brought onto TV... And not every rookie hits a home run out of the dugout. They need some seasons to really start hitting .300 dont they? Who trained Mark Henry if not the WWE? He signed with the WWE before ever getting ANY training as a pro-wrestler and WWE assigned and paid for his training. He also has spent A LOT of time in OVW. Maybe not the standard development guy, but he's from scratch. I admit the last 4 arnt the best things since sliced bread, Kozlov/Jackson are typical boneheads, but I think its time we except women's wrestling just sucks. Even TNA's sucks. The best women's match (in North America) is usually about as good as a mediocre to terrible men's match. (I know there are exceptions, but thats like saying every human being is a genius because Einstein was). I wish I lived in your world... Where every player ever drafted to a sports team and put through the development/farm system turned out to be the best player ever. Of COURSE there has been failures. Some of the people on your list arnt really pure products of development (Beth Phoenix, Paul Burchill, Katie Lea, DJ Gabriel, Primo, & Drew McIntyre all had some sort of decent indy career). And putting Drew McIntyre & Beth Phoenix on your list counters your own argument. His first time on the roster, he clearly was too green and not ready, he would of failed badly... correct. So he went for more time in the farm league and now is pretty decent... Almost as if he developed. But I really just dislike that argument. Not sure how to really counter it as it is basically saying since every person to spend time down in development isnt still with the WWE or all that great, the whole system is a failure? You cant set the standard as perfection. And even a handful of the guys on that list are pretty decent wrestlers. EDIT: not a flame war at all! This is an example of a debate. Notice (on both our sides) we havnt called each other a homo yet? Although that "lived in your world" comment may push it. I'm just to lazy to phrase things all nice and proper. haha.

- John Cean - Batista - Randy Orton - Cody Rhodes - Jack Swagger - Kofi Kingston - Mark Henry - Santino Marella - Ted Dibiase - The Miz - Dolph Ziggler - John Morrison - JTG - Maryse - Michelle McCool - Shad - Ezekiel Jakson - Vladimir Kozlov - Zack Ryder I'd agree. Complete waste.[/sarcasm] None of th above guys had really indy careers of any sort. A few had maybe a year or two experiance with what were at the time kind of un-official WWE developmental territories (Kofi in Chaotic, Miz/Cena in UPW), but outside of that all those guys are OVW/FCW groomed.) And "indy guys" typically dont spend a lot of time there. If they do its because WWE has nothing for them to do, more so then trying to train them. Most indy guys end up coming up before from scratch guys, see Punk/Bourne/Tatsu/Archer/Kidd/Smith/Natalya, most of which spent at most about a year in developmental and usually you can see the reasons. Punk was held off to debut in ECW, Tatsu was held off to learn english, Bourne was up really fast, waiting for the at-the-time ECW roster to thin down. I admit sometimes it gets annoying when someone like Low Ki is down there for a year, but he was hurt for what, 8 months of the 12 (if that) he's been signed? And I think its almost a lock that people like Ki & Danielson are likely going to be the first called up after WWE's next batch of roster releases.

I was probably on the money when I said Dylan Klein (who is basically Zack Ryder with a bit of Dolph Ziggler) and Lift Sawyer (who has the best name in wrestling... unless someone debuts with the name Harvest Grayson or Run Gofast) are likely gone.

if you do a search for him the only thing that comes up of any use is mentions of his amateur wrestling career. Likely hasnt done much (if any) pro wrestling.

WWE has signed Joshua Fatu to a developmental deal. Joshua is the son of Rikishi (so he's related to all the samoans). His brother Jonathan is already in FCW as Jimmy Uso, and Josh joined him at the most recent show in a tag team as Joey Uso. It also seems WWE may of quietly let go a couple of developmental talents. Over the past couple months a couple names have disappeared from all shows and even the FCW roster page. I remember Christoph Herzog (Chris The Bambikiller) & Jose Ediel (Joe Gomez) were the first to do the disappearing act a couple months back. And in the last couple days Dylan Klein (Johnny Riggs) and Lift Sawyer (Aaron Reeds) were removed. I checked Riggs & Bambikiller's myspaces, Riggs doesnt seem to mention a release and Chris claims to still be with the company but back in Germany. So Riggs could be gone and just not updated it (how many people really update their myspace "JUST GOT FIRED!") and Bambikiller either has family/health/visa issues or has been let go and just playing the "no I havnt" game. Other developmental news: - Richie Steamboat has apparentley arrived in Florida and already been in the FCW gym. - Ray Leppan (Dameon Duke) a friend of Justin Angel finally got his work visa and should be in Florida soon. Ray is the 2nd ever South African wrestler signed to the WWE (after Justin Angel). He actually has a cool look and seems pretty impressive. - Barri Griffiths & Jemma Palmer are waiting on visa's apparentley. Jemma has been "signed" for 6 or more months now so maybe her deal fell apart. I remember when Ontario mainstray Shawn Spears got signed, he "signed" in like January but didnt end up going to OVW for 5-6 months (maybe longer) and I remember everything he did on the indy scene had to be approved by WWE (but to their credit they allowed him to continue to work, and that let me watch him live for another half year). - Incognito is either waiting on a visa or fleshing out moving details as he isnt in Florida. - Reon Mahima of New Zealend is apparently been signed to a deal (a while ago actually) but hasnt come to the states yet due to law issues and likely visa issues. He allegedly beat up three guys who threw food at him and his girlfriend: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/462966. Some may remember Reon as originally being involved in the "who are Donny Marlow & Jimmy Uso" incident of 2009, where people had no clue who they were, Rikishi's sons, Haku's sons, other random people, ext.

I'm guessing its a typical case of the fact WWE probably said "Bryan, you likely wont debut for a couple months, we will try and fit you in dark matches and maybe on house shows until you debut on ECW, likely after a handful of releases." So Bryan likely said "I'd rather go to Florida and work and train on a consistent basis." If all the stuff I've read (or even half of it) is true, the WWE is high on Danielson. He has the support of HBK, Regal, and a lot of other guys backstage (I read even Taker likes him) so he's likely going to be a career guy who even if he never becomes world champ will be a Regal like "make everyone look good" guy.

very much reminds of of WCW... I know people might be getting sick of the comparison. But how many times were Misterio, Benoit, Storm, Awesome, even Kidman at a point where all they needed was "that win" or to be really taken seriously but then WCW would simply lower them back down the card? Granted, they would go back down the card and have great matches with other talent they refused to elevate... but TNA is now doing the same thing.

am I the only one who thinks a lot of TNA's "original" music sounds like it was written on the Guitar Hero Studio thing?

We're going to stay live! Until the end of the match until there's a winner! Thanks to Spike and Hogan! This match! Live! Uninterrupted! RIGHT AFTER THIS!