The Constructive Criticism Covenant

[Monkeypox]

This, from the dumb MF who brought you the [b]Jim Force Month[/b] of yesteryear! Ever since our collective mancrush on big Jimmy F (not to be confused with little, feminine, unFORCE Jimmy P), I've been trying to come up with something else that we could all do together as a board, but nothing came to mind. That is, until Vitamin E dropped his now [u][b]infamous post on the overuse of graphics in GDS dynasties[/u][/b]. (click it. I dare you. It ain't a link! I'm lazy!) His post, ambiguously well-intentioned if unambiguously poorly received, made three basic points: 1> We use too many graphics in our dynasties. 2> Some other wrestling boards that I've never heard of are way better than GDS. 3> We never give constructive criticism, we just say "Good show, argh blargh, good show, blargh argh argh, you've got another reader, phfoo blargh". The first point (and I mean this in the best and least flamish way possible) is straight bull***t. GDS authors don't use graphics in any generalized way that I can track, so the statement that we use graphics too much is silly. Infinitiwpi, yo. Infinitiwpi. But the second point is a challenge, and it is a challenge that we can meet only by giving the third point the credit it deserves. So here, in the spirit of Jim Force, is what I propose: As a new collective activity, prove this interloper wrong by going to your absolute favorite dynasties and [b]leaving constructive criticism[/b]. Only do it to your favorites, the dynasties you already love. No dynasty is perfect, and this is an opportunity for us to: A: Make our favorite dynasties even better. B: Show that we are capable of the sort of higher-level thinking and community support that makes GDS a better board than (fill in name of other board that I have already forgotten because I really only mark out for TEW and actually sorta don't even notice wrestling). C: Prove that Vitamin dude wrong in a clean-spirited act of collective fair competition. Seriously. There isn't a dynasty around that couldn't use a little well-intented recommendation, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that guys like [b]Tristram[/b] or [b]Scapino[/b], who are beyond reproach in terms of being [i]very good at what they do[/i], would actually be really grateful to receive some honest and pointed feedback. I don't mean to put words in their mouths, but with the effort and consistency some of the authors on this board put into their stuff, I think they'd love to hear something besides praise. We all know they do a good job. So dig deep, look hard, and help everyone get even better. That's the best point Vitamin E made - we could use a little criticism. I plan to visit my favorite dynasties and drop some well-intended honesty, but I have to sober up first. Don't spare the rod, people. WHO IS WITH ME :eek:

[shamelessposer]

I'm with you and your humongous throbbing rod.

[Monkeypox]

It is! It's huge! I knocked the neighborhood kid over with it the other day! He's pressing charges! Whoa, gross! Anyhow, go criticize!

[tommytomlin]

I'm naturally a dick, so I'll give it a shot.

[Monkeypox]

Yes! More criticism and also more dick jokes! Go! Go!

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;267517]I'm with you and your humongous throbbing rod.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Monkeypox;267519]It is! It's huge! I knocked the neighborhood kid over with it the other day! He's pressing charges! Whoa, gross! Anyhow, go criticize![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=tommytomlin;267520]I'm naturally a dick, so I'll give it a shot.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Monkeypox;267521]Yes! More criticism and also more dick jokes! Go! Go![/QUOTE] I'd like to point out that there are four posts in a row that alude to actually just come out and mention the male apendage. That's a little too much don't you think? Just thank God that there aren't any pictures in this thread!

[Monkeypox]

Graphics are for cowards!

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=theoutlaw321;267527]Just thank God that there aren't any pictures in this thread![/QUOTE] You're right. Thread needs a picture of a big dick. [img]http://www.mondowrestling.com/blog/public/bigdick.jpg[/img]

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;267530]You're right. Thread needs a picture of a big dick. [img]http://www.mondowrestling.com/blog/public/bigdick.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] lmao But seriously, I plan on attempting to follow thru with leaving feedback that is more than just 'good show.' I'm as guilty of that as anyone.

[djthefunkchris]

Honestly, if it's done curtiously I guess, but... To be honest, I give credit to anyone taking time to do these things, as it's a very time consuming project for anyone to take up. No matter if it's the worse thing I ever read, I could not "Slam" them for it... The best thing to do is support them, find two things nice for everything bad that you say. If your truly intending on "Helping" then fine. If not, I don't aggree with it at all.

[Monkeypox]

I think that the dynasties I'd be trying to say something critical about know that I'm not there to hate. I think it's important to confine any criticism to the dynasties you really dig - just leaving the criticism says "Hey, you're one of the best dynasties out there, and this is how I think you could be even better." Nothing negative about that. But at the same time, if you wanna counterbalance anything I say, let me know and I'll let you know where I"m saying it.

[Astil]

Ill be more constructive, but I cant say Ill be critical. I'm just not good at that. *shrug*

[D-Lyrium]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;267536]To be honest, I give credit to anyone taking time to do these things, as it's a very time consuming project for anyone to take up. No matter if it's the worse thing I ever read, I could not "Slam" them for it...[/QUOTE] I take your point, but nobody's talking about "slamming" anying. Going into a dynasty and saying "lol this sucks" isn't constructive at all. Or really criticism, for that matter ¬_¬. But every single person that posts a dynasty to this forum expects others to read it. And if they expect others to read it, I'd assume they also wanted them to enjoy it. So constructive criticism that enables that to happen more is good, right?

[shipshirt]

I have no problem with people offering suggestions and critiques it just depends on where they lay. I think stuff like "Hey could you include match times" or "I'd love it if you did a monthly overview of your roster" and such are helpful and bring more to the reader. "I didn't like that this dude went over that dude" isn't much in the way of critique. Also, if a storyline is getting over "in game" and it's doing the job that it's supposed to do and someone says "I hate this storyline, change it" then it begs the questions...which audience are we serving? The in game audience who is "attending" the shows or the diary reading audience? Just some food for thought. Also, I could care less what people on EWB (was that the board?) think about this group. We don't need to rise any challenge to meet a bunch of people I've never even heard of. I think the people we have on this forum, diary writers and general posters alike, are some of the finest, most supportive as well as creative people I've ever seen on any message board, wrestling or otherwise. I love the vibe on this board and I see no reason to change it to meet the needs of some board that none of us have ever really heard of. Gentlemen (and the rare few ladies), it's been an honor.

[flamebrain]

Yeah I've seen some people running real world mods criticised for pushing someone who "doesn't deserve it", but that's here in the real world, in the game they may have caught on like wildfire, if we all played as things are in real life we'd be as well reading recaps of TV shows from another site! Criticism along the lines of format changes, increasing/decreasing detail, or criticism of the handling of people (beyond their real-life counterparts if they have them) can be extremely helpful. Suggestions are just that, suggestions not mandates, but can also help in that writer's creative process when they might say "y'know so-and-so was right, maybe I will push wrestler X". Questions would also be welcome, rather than saying "Stevie Richards should in no way hold your top title" you could simply ask "why is Stevie Richards perched atop your promotion, smiting all and sundry before him?" maybe there is a perfectly good reason from an in-game perspective. As for forum audience v game audience, think of it as the game audience being the larger fanbase with us in our usual smart markish place. Overall the majority is still who is catered to (the game) but we readers are also viewers, maybe enjoying other aspects and appreciating the booking (or not! :))

[shipshirt]

[QUOTE=flamebrain;267886] As for forum audience v game audience, think of it as the game audience being the larger fanbase with us in our usual smart markish place. Overall the majority is still who is catered to (the game) but we readers are also viewers, maybe enjoying other aspects and appreciating the booking (or not! :))[/QUOTE] That's a great analogy. Well said!

[infinitywpi]

[QUOTE=Monkeypox;267514] The first point (and I mean this in the best and least flamish way possible) is straight bull***t. GDS authors don't use graphics in any generalized way that I can track, so the statement that we use graphics too much is silly. Infinitiwpi, yo. Infinitiwpi.[/QUOTE] But, dude, my dynasty sucks! I'm all, like, about the gameplay and not the storyline, which seems to be a big turnoff for some people. Mebe if I threw some big graphics up there, mebe photoshopped them a bit, people would like it more... :rolleyes:

[forlan]

[QUOTE=shipshirt;267858] Also, if a storyline is getting over "in game" and it's doing the job that it's supposed to do and someone says "I hate this storyline, change it" then it begs the questions...which audience are we serving? The in game audience who is "attending" the shows or the diary reading audience? [/QUOTE] It is your diary and fair enough you are happy to get criticism and whatnot but there is a difference between that and being ordered to do something. Just because someone else doesnt want a feud why in the hell would you stop it if you wanted it, that would just be stupid. Personally i dont "serve" any audience with my diaries because i write it for myself but the whores of the diary world that write laklustre diaries just to have one might just change things depending on what people say.

[Anubis]

I wouldn't mind more people reading and commenting on my diary. While it's all fine to say "do the diary for yourself", let's be honest, there's no point to writing up a diary and posting it on a forum if you don't actually want people to read it. I can play the game until I'm blue in the face and it's all fun, but when I take time to write up a diary, I would very much appreciate it if people would read it. Now I understand we can't just cater to readers; if they don't like something, but it's working in-game, you basically have to decide whether to goof your game to make the reader happy or just keep doing your own thing. As far as booking goes, I would not cater to anyone. Where comments would help, though, is with format and such. I know a lot of people didn't like my format for the first year, and that's why I changed it. Now it takes longer to write, so I hope more people are reading it. My new format is decent, but I feel like it's getting repetitive, likely because I run cards faster than real-time. I would love if people could tell me if they think it's as repetitive as it seems. Since I'm writing it, I'm not objective enough to critique my own stuff, so the thoughts of other people are definitely welcome. Yeah, it should be polite, that should really go without saying. Trolling and flaming a person's diary just ain't cool. Constructive commenting, however, be it positive or negative, is always helpful.

[bgbuff]

I agree that constructive critisim is a great thing....I'm bad about the 'great show' feedback line also......and I know my diary doesn't elicit much in reguard to feedback, (but there are quite a few views per installment) but I do enjoy it when I get it....The few who did made valid points for me to consider on layout- font, etc. I've tried different layouts- including all graphic writeups, [URL="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21201&page=7"]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21201&page=7[/URL] (post 100) .to me feedback will help to create a more reader friendly environment, but it is not the driving force....the diary is a creation for me to enjoy.... I agree with Pox though, some feedback would be nice to hear.....constructive or praise..... just two cents....

[mystic]

[QUOTE=shipshirt;267858]I have no problem with people offering suggestions and critiques it just depends on where they lay. I think stuff like "Hey could you include match times" or "I'd love it if you did a monthly overview of your roster" and such are helpful and bring more to the reader. "I didn't like that this dude went over that dude" isn't much in the way of critique. Also, if a storyline is getting over "in game" and it's doing the job that it's supposed to do and someone says "I hate this storyline, change it" then it begs the questions...which audience are we serving? The in game audience who is "attending" the shows or the diary reading audience? [/QUOTE] as far as which audience I "serve" I would say I serve three audiences me, the game and the readers. anything in my diary is up for debate (storylines, way I write the diary, who a heel vs. who is a face etc... Of course it will take more then one person to get me to change something and all decisions are made by me. If I was to get "I hate this storyline, change it" from one person, first I would laugh then smile because while that person does not offer any ways to change it, at least I know they are reading. hope thats clear, lost my own train of though typing it.

[Michael Wayne]

great diary! You've got another reader. :p Sorry, couldn't resist.

[shipshirt]

I might have been a little unclear in my post...if so, apologies. I just meant that I think critique/comments on formatting, style and content are great and always helpful. I think there's just a difference between that and the people who just aren't into the story you're telling or just hate the dude you're pushing. I just thought it an interesting distinction.

[Scapino1974]

I'd be up for offering and receiving constructive criticism. It never hurts. I'll do what I can. :)

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=infinitywpi;267921]But, dude, my dynasty sucks! I'm all, like, about the gameplay and not the storyline, which seems to be a big turnoff for some people. Mebe if I threw some big graphics up there, mebe photoshopped them a bit, people would like it more... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] I like your diary because of it's simplistic approach. And whether you intend to or not your telling a story with it. Constantly having to overcome the rigors of booking a small fed. Great stuff. And look no pictures.