Ric Flair Tries To Quit?

[jonlawson]

Here's something nasty I just pictured when I started reading this thread... Flair returns to the ring in the classic "Legends Royal Rumble" with Doink the Clown and a rejuvinated Jake Roberts. But, really, Flair may not look like he did back in the Horseman days, but, he can still make pretty much anyone look good. I'd love to see maybe Arn and Flair get back together one more time for old times sake. See, Arn was also one of those guys who left not at the top of his game but he left way early. I miss Double A.

[jonlawson]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;288203]I'm going to get on my smark high-horse and say that if Khali drops the belt to Batista he officially becomes "totally useless." The fans really aren't that in to him and he's terrible at selling his offense, so he can't be that "special attraction-monster heel" type. And it'll will be hard to sell him as a legit threat when he's come up short repeatedly in his main event feuds against guys like Cena, Taker, and Dave (call it the King Kong Bundy syndrome). So yeah..if Khali loses to Batista, he becomes the least interesting "monster" on the roster.[/QUOTE] IMO, Khali holds the belt until HHH returns, not to Raw but to Smackdown :) LOL

[mystic]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;288203] So yeah..if Khali loses to Batista, he becomes the least interesting "monster" on the roster.[/QUOTE] he all ready is the least interesting "monster" on the roster

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;288193]I just saw Mil Mascaras at the Sports Arena in July, and I can honestly say he sucks in the ring. He doesn't bump, even his no-sell looks bad, and he's and his opponets have to do all the work on all his offensive moves. He's also sandbagging but he's been doing that for twenty years. That being said, lotta fans bought tickets to see Mil. As to the Flair thing: here's the problem...I'm not sure he's as much of a draw as internet fans like to think he is. Do the majority of the WWE audience know who he is? Yes, but probably only in a "he's that old guy who used to be good" kind of way. Does that mean they'll pay to see him in a main event? Possibly...but only against the right opponent. For instance, if Edge hadn't been hurt and we'd seena mini-feud with those two with lots of cheating and underhanded tactics and general sneakiness (sort of a battle to see who really is "the dirtiest player in the game") then that would have been wildy entertaining and I could definitely see Flair getting a title win on SD and losing it back to Edge at the next PPV. But with Khali? On a show where most of the heels are either monster types or don't really need to be "made?" He just doesn't fit a purpose at the moment. I don't want to see Flair retire. Realistically he probably still can't afford to. But he needs a different situation to find a role for himself.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree with this. Flair was always more popular with the WCW fans. There age demographic tended to be higher and they remembered him from his days as a 60 minute man, who gave other guys a shot a the top, by making them look a million dollars when putting them over. Is he that popular with today's WWE Cena obsessed fan? I doubt it

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=jonlawson;288205]See, Arn was also one of those guys who left not at the top of his game but he left way early. I miss Double A.[/QUOTE] Uhh, no. Arn left too LATE. Remember WHY he retired? He'd lose feeling in his limbs in the middle of matches. Ever see a guy wrestle with a dead arm? The more he wrestled, the worse it got so he HAD to quit.....or deal with partial paralysis. I love Arn too. He was one of the few workers in history who could make a simple move look visually impressive. So much so that his favorite move is often attributed to him, even though it's a pretty basic throw. There are people who innovate and have moves named for them or taken from their naming (Megumi Kudo with the Kudome Valentine/Kudo Driver, Etsuko Mita with the fireman's carry side slam/Death Valley Driver, etc) and then there are people who take simple moves and make them look impressive (Scott Steiner with the Frankensteiner, for example. Triple H with the double underhook facebuster as another) and make it their own. Arn was one of the latter. But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the skill part. Personally, I've seen many, many workers change their working style as they got older or as their bodies required it. Mariko Yoshida used to be a spot monkey, for example. Broke her neck, sat out for 2 years (TWO YEARS), and came back as a mat mistress who rarely, if ever, even looks at the top rope anymore. Does she then "suck in the ring" because she doesn't do what she did before? Or has her game evolved to match her role and her body's limitations? Flair can't have explosive offense or even the kind of offense he had in his heyday.....because that's not his role. I guarantee you if WWE decided to push Flair, his repertoire would be far different than what you've seen recently. Look at his time as IC champ and compare the basic match mechanics of those matches to his matches without a title. Flair has to look like an older worker who the "young bucks" can run circles around but who can find a way to win (thus proving his 'veteran' rep). You can't do that if your offense is compelling (people begin to wonder wtf kind of veteran you are when you can nearly dominate someone....and LOSE).

[djthefunkchris]

To be fair, I think he meant that Arn left too early, as in he could have gone out later and been more popular, and... I don't think they were taking into consideration his physical status at the time, only his popularity.

[James Casey]

Flair's problem is that, as he approaches 60, he's less and less able to tell a compelling story in the ring. Even his promos have become a bit embarassing of late - some of his stuff with Foley last year was just cringeworthy, and while it was cool to watch him tell off Carlito a few months back, I doubt he can bring it like that every time. I'd also agree that Flair is almost meaningless to modern WWE fans anyway. Ron Simmons gets bigger reactions than Flair does, and while DAMN is a passing phase ('cos, let's be honest, it's got a limited shelf life), the fact that it's more over than Whoooo says a lot. To me, Flair is way, way too old to look like he could be champ. Yes, you cargue that he's got the experience, the canniness and the cheating skills to be the equal of someone thirty years his junior on a given night, but Flair has seemingly wrestled the same match (chops, take a backdrop, Flair Flop, figure four) since 2002. At least he's left out the bare ass spot of late. While he's been involved in notable gimmick matches (vs Edge, vs Big Show, MITB last year), there comes a point when it's just brutalising an old man. And without the gimmicks... Flair's been at or near the top for a very long time. For his own good, he should just accept that he can't do it in the ring anymore (not that he's ever likely to). As a fitting send-off, WWE could have a one man Hall of Fame next year - induct Flair on his own. He certainly deserves it, and just imagine having some of his old friends like Piper, Sting, Dusty and Arn telling their stories.

[djthefunkchris]

When people start saying "Damn" at every single wrestling event, no matter what promotion it is... You can say that "Damn" is more over then "Whooo". Everytime anyone chops anyone, you hear RIC FLAIR in the crowd... "WHOOO!"

[panix04]

I quote Ron simmons every time i drop something on floor, bump into something and/or fall over and i am not the only one! Now thats overness! :D ........................DAMN!

[flamebrain]

I'm still surfing on the "INDEED!" wave. :)

[panix04]

I can't hear the song "love shack" by the B52's without doing a little bit of the Mick Foley "bang, bang" taunt at the end. Gets me some funny looks in the pub!

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=panix04;288500]I quote Ron simmons every time i drop something on floor, bump into something and/or fall over and i am not the only one! Now thats overness! :D ........................DAMN![/QUOTE] Everytime I do something stupid I pause for a long time before shouting DAMN! Often I picture it was Ron saying it.... not me. Normal yes?

[jonlawson]

Man, I have to admit also that I love the fact that Simmon's Damn is rockin right now, but I agree with the Flair thing, everywhere, in almost every small fed also, when someone does a chop you hear "WHOOOO!" It's almost scarey and will definitely out live the WWE I think. You know, I forgot about AA's problems with his shoulder and arm going numb like that, thanks! It made me pull out some old tapes of Flair and Anderson vs. Hollywood Blondes and watch AA closely. You can see how obvious it is, alot of the times he would tag out to Flair and it looked unscripted ya know? I loved it though how he would tell his opponent to STOP with his hands and stick his hand out to Flair and the crowd would go NUTS! That was great to watch again.

[tristram]

Flair is and always will be a legend. For my way of thinking, I would love to see him as a meddling heel manager who also then gets his comupence by getting booked into matches he doesn't like... occassionally he could cheat to get the win, but usually he'd beg off with no luck. The reason I say that is because I want the heel Flair promos back... no one plays heel like Flair. No one. People can bag him out all they like, he still tells a story, sure he's not glamorous in the ring, but as requested a year or two ago he was still adapting by way of going into a brutal hardcore match and getting savagely cut open left right and centre. That's his professionalism. Even at this age, he'll do just about anything. I've said it before, I'll say it again... WCW missed the boat majorly (there were several near majorly catastrophic moments too), 1) not booking Sting to go over Hogan clean at Starrcade '97 2) When the Horsemen got back together, in 1997, in the Carolinas, and you could hear the crowd was the hottest it'd been in forever... they jobbed the Horsemen out and broke them up. Ric Flair could have helped put Malenko and particularly Benoit over as massively over stars if they had have been given the green light to dissect and tear apart the what turned out to be cancerous nWo. Then there would have been a new era.... But I guess as Ric says, learn to live with, learn to love it. To be the man, you have to beat the man. WOOOO!

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=James Casey;288490]Flair's problem is that, as he approaches 60, he's less and less able to tell a compelling story in the ring. Even his promos have become a bit embarassing of late - some of his stuff with Foley last year was just cringeworthy, and while it was cool to watch him tell off Carlito a few months back, I doubt he can bring it like that every time. I'd also agree that Flair is almost meaningless to modern WWE fans anyway. Ron Simmons gets bigger reactions than Flair does, and while DAMN is a passing phase ('cos, let's be honest, it's got a limited shelf life), the fact that it's more over than Whoooo says a lot.[/QUOTE] Y'see, this is where we differ. I don't care about 'right now'. 'Right now' is like Kato Kaelin, fleeting as the day is long. I dunno how many shows outside of WWE or TNA you go to, but as folks have stated, whenever a chop is landed in ANY promotion [B][I]ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD[/I][/B], you hear 'WOOOO!' emanate from the crowd. I don't ever recall hearing 'Damn' used as universally. That trumps "right now", in my book. So okay, WWE fans (who, let's face it, aren't exactly the most discerning or high-brow/knowledgeable fanbase in the world), have taken to a person who makes appearances, in some form, on damn near EVERY WWE broadcast. Pavlov, anyone? Where's Flair? He has no role, no point to being on TV. Let's look at this in TEW terms. The 'Damn' catchphrase is over to one promotion's fanbase. Say it in Japan and see what reaction you get. Now, go to Japan or Mexico or Europe or Australia and use the 'Wooo' catchphrase. Which one's more recognizable? That, to me, is overness. In two years, few people will remember or care about 'Damn' but can the same be said about Flair's signature taunt? I'd go so far as to say his strut is more over than 'Damn', because it's known across almost all wrestling fanbases. As I've said, 'right now' is meaningless in the general scheme of things. Sure, to WWE fans, 'right now' is everything. But for someone who can easily be considered one of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time, 'right now' pales in comparison to endurance and longevity. Again, I believe you're judging Flair harshly because of the way he's been booked as of late. I think he can still work a very convincing match [I][B]when given the opportunity to do so[/B][/I]. Just like I believe John Cena can work a match far better than we've seen him do so far. For evidence, go look at his work as The Prototype and even the work he did in UPW, green as he was back then. It's not possible for a person to regress SO far without there being a physical or outside reason for it. He's limited now because that's how he's booked. How many times have you seen John Cena use a tilt-a-whirl move in WWE? Look at Brock Lesnar as another example. In OVW, his game was far more well-rounded than it was in WWE (he hit SSPs fairly regularly in OVW but all anyone's going to remember of that is him botching it in a Wrestlemania match). Face it, WWE believes its fanbase is simple and can't fathom a complex match or workers with full skillsets. Thus, they book their matches to be very simple and their workers are restrained from doing things "outside of the script". But as I said, agree to disagree. :)

[Guest Ransik]

The thing is... people think Flair "can't go" anymore because they watch how the young guys wrestle today and think Flair has "lost it." Flair may not be able to go as long as he used to... but he's still got the same psychology and work rate he had a decade ago. Every time I hear people say "Flair doesn't have it anymore" I just remind them if you watch any match with a WWE worker in it from the last 5 years... you're gonna see the exact same match unless it goes over 20 minutes or it's a gimmick match. It has nothing to do with Flair... it has to do with how he's booked and used. End of.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289559]The thing is... people think Flair "can't go" anymore because they watch how the young guys wrestle today and think Flair has "lost it." Flair may not be able to go as long as he used to... but he's still got the same psychology and work rate he had a decade ago. Every time I hear people say "Flair doesn't have it anymore" I just remind them if you watch any match with a WWE worker in it from the last 5 years... you're gonna see the exact same match unless it goes over 20 minutes or it's a gimmick match. It has nothing to do with Flair... it has to do with how he's booked and used. End of.[/QUOTE] I've said similar things about alot of the roster myself. It's funny how they are all this and a bag of chips, but then it seems as if their skills dropped dramatically or something. I aggree with you on this, as we have no clue what kind of a show someone could put on outside of the WWE, unless we get a chance to see them outside of the WWE, bassically.

[Guest Ransik]

Pretty much. I mean hell look at the gimmick matches Flair had with Edge. He had freedom and time to work the way HE wanted to... and he put on the best matches he's had in years. But as soon as that was over... it was back to 5 minute chop fests. TNA is very guilty of this, too... but they don't require their workers to perform the exact same set of moves over and over in every match and they don't script every little bit of mic time either. I'm sure that hurts morale in the WWE in a big way because the workers can't even do things the way they want to do it and be happy with their jobs because they're being treated like actors instead of wrestlers.

[djthefunkchris]

It looks like there are going to be alot of change's... and alot of them for the better (A wellness policy that actually does it's job perhaps?). So lets just keep our finger's crossed that some of that comes through as well. That Carlito thing he done was awesome as well too. UPDATE on this though. WWE have been rumored to offer him a much better contract, and perhaps a Wrestlemania match. Their hasn't been anything I can find on how, or if Flair has even responded yet. He might just say heck with them period.

[Guest Ransik]

If I were Ric... I'd just say the hell with them. They've had what.... 5 years to produce what would no doubt be huge sales, ratings and buyrates by pushing him in a top program and they've consistantly failed him worse than they did with everything in the InVasion. If Ric is interested in a last run at the top and putting people over... he ought to go the route Sting did and go to TNA for a while. They would no doubt make him a "17 time Champion" (even though he's held like 30) and put him in there with guys like Abyss and Cage and help solidify them as top tier players even more than Sting & Angle have. But going back to be the whipping boy and have a big WM send-off? I don't see how it would be worth the time.

[djthefunkchris]

It's the Pay off for it. They get HUGE PPV bonus's, especially for Wrestlemania. EDIT: And we all know that Ric does like money. Although I've heard that his problems with Tax's are under controll, and they only take out a certain percent of what he makes, which means he will always make something.

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289577]Pretty much. I mean hell look at the gimmick matches Flair had with Edge. He had freedom and time to work the way HE wanted to... and he put on the best matches he's had in years. But as soon as that was over... it was back to 5 minute chop fests.[/QUOTE] Am i missing somthing here!? Let's be honest you cant say Flair has ever had the biggest of move sets [QUOTE=Ransik;289585]If I were Ric... I'd just say the hell with them. They've had what.... 5 years to produce what would no doubt be huge sales, ratings and buyrates by pushing him in a top program and they've consistantly failed him worse than they did with everything in the InVasion. [/QUOTE] Would it have produced big buy rates though? I think your looking through rose tinted spectacles. Its not like the WWE don't want to make money, thats what they are all about. Its the reason why Cena has had the belt so long while all the internet fans have been calling for his head. I feel the same about this Flair situation, sure the internet and smart fans are shouting his name from the rooftops. But the casual fans, the fans that make up most of WWE's customers, the fans which only visit one wrestling site on the net (wwe.com) couldnt care less about him getting another run at the top. Hell most of them don't even remember him being at the top.

[djthefunkchris]

He still gets huge pops though. Everyone still loves him, no matter if he's doing the good guy, or cheating. Just saying, there is potential for at least one more rise out of him. Looking at the roster, it would be a good thing. When I say a Wrestlemania spot though, I don't necessarily mean the World title on the line for him. If I were a betting man, it would be a US or Intercontinental title, perhaps even a Tag team run. That's just what I would do though. I wouldn't rush a World title on anyone that hasn't been in the main event all year. I would build them up for it, see how they go over first... and even though I think Flair has it in him to headline, I would at least let it play out to make sure.

[mystic]

from pwinsider [url]http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=26473&p=1[/url] [QUOTE]Ric Flair publicly denied "quitting" World Wrestling Entertainment while appearing on the syndicated radio show "Primetime with the Packman" this past Friday. Flair, who had called in to discuss a recent college football win by Appalachian State, was asked about whether he had quit the company and responded, "It's not true. What would WWE do without me?" and began laughing. Flair plugged the "Ric Flair Finance" company that he is in the process of setting up in the Charlotte area with several partners and promised he would discuss the WWE situation later this week when he would be in studio as a co-host for the show. As noted last week here on the site, there have been some disagreements between Flair and WWE over how he's been presented by the company, but the two sides have been speaking amicably towards a resolution. Flair remains under a current WWE contract.[/QUOTE]

[The Swanton825]

[QUOTE=Undertaker666;288199].... whilst blindfolded. :D[/QUOTE] In an electrified cage. :D