MightyDavidson Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=James Casey;299151]Punk is renowned for being an outspoken guy who always gives his opinion on such things - he's got a certain reputation for not pandering to anyone, which has annoyed a few people backstage, if the stories that I've seen are true. Not to say that he's wrong to be like that, and he has freely admitted that he can come off badly by doing so, but I wonder what the reaction would have been if it'd been someone like Vince himself who Punk had answered back too.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't happen because for all his other faults, I'm willing to bet Vince is actually aware of who's working for him on television and who's currently holding titles in his company. I doubt he's likely to lose his temper over how Punk wears his wrist tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDavidson Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;299172]BLASPHEMY!!!!! HOW DARE YOU COMPARE KHALI FAVORABLY TO MICK FOLEY...!?! ...... Ahh..... much better![/QUOTE] Well put sir, well put indeed. I think I shall follow your sterling example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 LMAO. I want to point out that I hate Khali but would rather watch him since he looks like he could be a giant unstoppable wrestler then watch the fat slob who would get hit over his head dozens of times instead of wrestling cause he is incapable of wrestling. I have seen so many people on this board speak highly of one of the worst things to ever happen to wrestling since The Ultimate Warrior, they both sucked, characters where great but not meant to wrestle, I would rather watch UW wrestle since he looks like an athlete. But hey everyone is aloud their own opinion, even if it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Mick Foley could/can do something that Khali can't. Something that is EXTREMELY important in wrestling. He can bump. Not every wrestler should look 'unstoppable'. You need the guys who can take the beating. Enter Foley. The dude was built for bumping. Also he isn't a jerk like Warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanHero Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Also he had an incredible grasp of psychology and could cut amazing promos, able to get entire arenas of people in the palm of his hand. He may not have been an great "traditional" wrestler, but in his prime and in some semblance of shape, he could outwork (or at least keep pace with) almost anyone he was put in the ring with. He wouldn't be the guy you'd send to developmental to show them holds and stuff, but he would be ideal to send down there to teach the guys the psychology behind a match and WHY they should be doing a move in a match. He could help them cut promos that would allow them to connect with the crowd, making them better faces or heels, thereby making them more useful to the WWE. Claiming that Khali, who can't do much in the ring, can't speak English, and basically only knows how to be tall and scary is more of a wrestler than Mick Foley is easily one of the most absurd and quite frankly stupidest things I've ever seen anyone post online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=Self;299195]Mick Foley could/can do something that Khali can't. Something that is EXTREMELY important in wrestling. He can bump. Not every wrestler should look 'unstoppable'. You need the guys who can take the beating. Enter Foley. The dude was built for bumping. Also he isn't a jerk like Warrior.[/QUOTE] I know Foley is a POS end of story. He didn't look like a wrestler and should have never been aloud to act as one. Maybe a manager but not a wrestler. Just want to point out people like Val Venis should have been the characters that can bump but don't go anywhere not the waste of space Foley. Sorry I am not trying to piss anyone off but i freaking hate foley and I swear I was hoping after Taker threw his stupid ass off the top he would have walked away at that point.....Its to bad he is like a turd that won't flush and just keeps floating around lifelessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=The Franchise;299199]Also he had an incredible grasp of psychology and could cut amazing promos, able to get entire arenas of people in the palm of his hand. He may not have been an great "traditional" wrestler, but in his prime and in some semblance of shape, he could outwork (or at least keep pace with) almost anyone he was put in the ring with. He wouldn't be the guy you'd send to developmental to show them holds and stuff, but he would be ideal to send down there to teach the guys the psychology behind a match and WHY they should be doing a move in a match. He could help them cut promos that would allow them to connect with the crowd, making them better faces or heels, thereby making them more useful to the WWE. Claiming that Khali, who can't do much in the ring, can't speak English, and basically only knows how to be tall and scary is more of a wrestler than Mick Foley is easily one of the most absurd and quite frankly stupidest things I've ever seen anyone post online.[/QUOTE] First off, He couldn't tell you why to put moves into a match all he could tell you is how hard of a chair shot or super stupid fall through a table should feel. Character Dev I would agree on but anything involved in the ring would be a negitave effect on the wrestling comuitny as a whole like it was when he was involved and the reason the reverted from that style. As for the Khali comment, granted Khali sucks, all things about him and everyone should hate him for his lack of everything besides size. I was trying to point out my extreme hate and discust for any and all things Foley/Jack/Kind/Love. He sucked at everything but character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoutlaw321 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=machinesxe;299168] Hell Kahli is more of a wrestler than his stupid ass and thats saying a lot.[/QUOTE] WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanHero Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=machinesxe;299204]First off, He couldn't tell you why to put moves into a match all he could tell you is how hard of a chair shot or super stupid fall through a table should feel. Character Dev I would agree on but anything involved in the ring would be a negitave effect on the wrestling comuitny as a whole like it was when he was involved and the reason the reverted from that style. As for the Khali comment, granted Khali sucks, all things about him and everyone should hate him for his lack of everything besides size. I was trying to point out my extreme hate and discust for any and all things Foley/Jack/Kind/Love. He sucked at everything but character.[/QUOTE] All right, you don't think Foley has any sense of psychology and can do nothing but be a garbage worker. Fine. Now prove why he is. I can show you many examples supporting my stance, but I want to know why you so vehemently hate him and his matches. Back up your argument with some facts. I'm honestly rather curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Seems like someone is underrating Foley. He might not be the greatest wrestler ever, but he was good. Now would I want him teaching the people I consider the future of my business how to wrestle? Probably not. He is entertaining and all, but he is also lucky that his career lasted as long as it did. He was built for bumping, but most people aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=machinesxe;299204]First off, He couldn't tell you why to put moves into a match all he could tell you is how hard of a chair shot or super stupid fall through a table should feel. Character Dev I would agree on but anything involved in the ring would be a negitave effect on the wrestling comuitny as a whole like it was when he was involved and the reason the reverted from that style. As for the Khali comment, granted Khali sucks, all things about him and everyone should hate him for his lack of everything besides size. I was trying to point out my extreme hate and discust for any and all things Foley/Jack/Kind/Love. He sucked at everything but character.[/QUOTE] Have you actually seen any of Foley's matches apart from Hell in the Cell!? Foley wasn't a bad worker by any stretch of the imagination. Sure he wrestled past his prime, but he even admits that himself. Go watch some of his pre WWE stuff the guy could work. He's no Shaun Michaels but then who is!? The most stupid comment on here you have made is that he doesn't look like a wrestler. Your the reason workers think they have to get on the juice to make it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=SuperOwens;299259]Have you actually seen any of Foley's matches apart from Hell in the Cell!? Foley wasn't a bad worker by any stretch of the imagination. Sure he wrestled past his prime, but he even admits that himself. Go watch some of his pre WWE stuff the guy could work. He's no Shaun Michaels but then who is!? The most stupid comment on here you have made is that he doesn't look like a wrestler. Your the reason workers think they have to get on the juice to make it...[/QUOTE]See I don't think anyone should be on the juice. That I am against completely, along with alcohol and all drugs. Hence the reason my login name is machineSXE. I do however think someone who is in the wrestling ring should not look like any fan could jump out of the crowd and kicks ass, or like they should be at home collecting unemployment and watches Days of our Lives. He looks like crap. Some of his characters we creative and entertaining, but would have been much better suited for a manager or personality role. He had not talent in psychology because all he did was hardcore. He was only hardcore and just about every match he had would have a special situation(Cage, Cell, Hardcore, Street Fight, FCA,). I am arguing and argument that only people who have spent time trying to make their way around the Indies would agree with. I have not met one worker on the Indies that has respected him or even appreciated what he has done. He made it so the only way to wrestle was to have weapons in the ring when doing so. I dislike him for building that expectation from the everyday fans, just like I dislike SPOT Monkeys because they have made it so any kid who learns how to do a back flip and some ballet can be a wrestler. BTW I can do the Amazing Red can do and Sonjay Dutt does(The Back flip forward move) just like them, hell I was going to start using it in 2002 when I first started but after sitting down watching what I enjoyed and what others pointed to me as working a match rather then doing the spot fests. I guess to best describe my hatred for Mick Foley is best described as my hate for a trend which kills what pro-wrestling is and always should be. So I hate Foley cause he was a leader in the Hardcore trend the same way I hate people like AJ Styles for his Spot Monkey style working. I know I am going to get flamed for the Styles comment but I like him in some of his matches but when he wrestles a spot, spot, spot match I don't like him. I also want to point out that when WCW was around the cruisers where around I enjoyed them b/c the put a great match together and worked an awesome style i.e. Rey, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho and a whole bunch more I won't list. Again I will point out that I have wrestled on the North Eastern Indies and the views I have are from someone who has seen the inside and been trained to believe that when I walk into an arena I should be able to put on just a good match without once talking to a guy in my life as I would with my brother that trained with me. I just have a different type of love for wrestling. I will also point out that I have not watched TNA,WWE(ANY) or any other wrestling promotion in about 4 years consistently because of my "insider" understanding for the business. I will also point out that I will go out and find some Mick matches and review them, and at that point I will let you know all of the reasons step by step why we should all hate his ass.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrobertk Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 This Topic Is About Teddy Atlas And Cm Punk Not Mick ****ing Foley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchise22 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 that would be tony atlas....not teddy...we established that early on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamrobertk Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 [QUOTE=Franchise22;299301]that would be tony atlas....not teddy...we established that early on.....[/QUOTE] Okay this thread was about tony ****ing atlas then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 LMAO o yeah forgot about that sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadisticBlessings Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I don't care about Tony Atlas or CM Punk, but since the topic veered I feel I have to - [b]have to[/b] - say my piece on Foley's behalf. Machinesxe, I know you're a wrestler, you're against drugs and steroids, and I'm sure you're in good shape, but here's the thing: not everyone is genetically predisposed to be 6'2, 240 pounds of chiseled muscle. Some guys, like Foley, can work out 7 days a week, all day every day, and still weigh 280 pounds and look like a short fat man with a bad haircut. I'd be willing to bet that even if Foley had tried juicing, he would've looked more like an unbelievably ugly Trevor Murdoch than Triple H. But here's the thing - he may not have looked like a wrestler, but he [b]wanted[/b] to be a wrestler. For that reason alone, I feel you have no right judging him "unworthy to be called a wrestler" simply because he doesn't look like a natural athlete. Suffice to say, Foley "made it" without having the "Superstar Look" you seem to worship so much, and main evented some of the most successful and memorable pay-per-views in WWE history while earning exorbitant amounts of money for himself and the company... and, don't forget, helping to make an assload of stars along the way. Where would Triple H be right now if it weren't for Mick? The way I see it, the fact that he accomplished all that without looking like a bodybuilder makes him a BETTER wrestler. How the hell do you think he got to where he was, sheer blind luck? Read his book - for most of his career, people thought of him the same exact way you think of him. He got to the top by [b]busting his ass[/b], every single time he went out to that ring. Have you seen his match with Michaels at Mind Games '96? This 300 pound man wrestled all-out for 25 minutes, putting on what I'd argue was a better match than what anyone on the current WWE roster could produce with the 1996 version of HBK. He may not have looked like a male model out there, but that's incredible cardio conditioning for a guy his size. The average person couldn't keep up for 10. So it's not as though he was a plodding lump of garbage like Khali, you know? At least Foley... uh, could move. This got a bit longer than I thought... but Foley deserves representation. :D K, that's good. y'all can go back to talking about Teddy Hart or Tony Atlas or whoever... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfRoMaN36 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 [QUOTE]This message is hidden because machinesxe is on your ignore list. [/QUOTE] Huh...? Speak louder.... I do not understand you!! [QUOTE]I don't care about Tony Atlas or CM Punk, but since the topic veered I feel I have to - have to - say my piece on Foley's behalf. Machinesxe, I know you're a wrestler, you're against drugs and steroids, and I'm sure you're in good shape, but here's the thing: not everyone is genetically predisposed to be 6'2, 240 pounds of chiseled muscle. Some guys, like Foley, can work out 7 days a week, all day every day, and still weigh 280 pounds and look like a short fat man with a bad haircut. I'd be willing to bet that even if Foley had tried juicing, he would've looked more like an unbelievably ugly Trevor Murdoch than Triple H. But here's the thing - he may not have looked like a wrestler, but he wanted to be a wrestler. For that reason alone, I feel you have no right judging him "unworthy to be called a wrestler" simply because he doesn't look like a natural athlete. Suffice to say, Foley "made it" without having the "Superstar Look" you seem to worship so much, and main evented some of the most successful and memorable pay-per-views in WWE history while earning exorbitant amounts of money for himself and the company... and, don't forget, helping to make an assload of stars along the way. Where would Triple H be right now if it weren't for Mick? The way I see it, the fact that he accomplished all that without looking like a bodybuilder makes him a BETTER wrestler. How the hell do you think he got to where he was, sheer blind luck? Read his book - for most of his career, people thought of him the same exact way you think of him. He got to the top by busting his ass, every single time he went out to that ring. Have you seen his match with Michaels at Mind Games '96? This 300 pound man wrestled all-out for 25 minutes, putting on what I'd argue was a better match than what anyone on the current WWE roster could produce with the 1996 version of HBK. He may not have looked like a male model out there, but that's incredible cardio conditioning for a guy his size. The average person couldn't keep up for 10. So it's not as though he was a plodding lump of garbage like Khali, you know? At least Foley... uh, could move. This got a bit longer than I thought... but Foley deserves representation. K, that's good. y'all can go back to talking about Teddy Hart or Tony Atlas or whoever... [/QUOTE] Bravo.... Personally I dont uderstand how ANYONE in or out of the buiness can say anything bad about Foley. The man made more stars than American Idol in a world filled with big tough guys sounding threatening, he was the plucky underdog who was taking the beating, dusting himself off, then going back to war. Thats why we loved him. He was different. And I can honestly say this that I can't say for anyone else that I'm not aquainted with.... but I'll cry like a bitch the day Mick Foley dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 SB, I guess I have to agree thinking back he did help launch people in superstar mode. I will have to go back with an open mind and watch him so more it has been years. I agree I can be harsh and will prob never agree completely with you guys but I will have an open mind and check out some of his work with an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeker Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I can either go on a rant here at you machinesxe or I can just give a few... non-traditional wrestlers who've 'made it' and then you can tell me why they aren't 'real wrestlers due to body type.' Please note to non-machinesxe'ers - these wrestlers are often my favourite wrestlers... but I'm making a point... or trying to. Jake Roberts - no sold punches from Muhammed Ali down in the Mid-South/UWF territory. Hardly 'ripped and chistled.' Vader - he's big n' fat. Therefore... can't be a 'good wrestler.' Andre the Giant - never been ripped. Why... he's Khali with a French accent. Rey Mysterio - he's too small to be seen as a real wrestler. Why, he's spot monkeyish too! Your reply machinesxe? *** Oh... and to adamwhomever... I LOVE Tony Hart... that guy rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 [QUOTE]Jake Roberts - no sold punches from Muhammed Ali down in the Mid-South/UWF territory. Hardly 'ripped and chistled.'[\QUOTE] But had talent in the stuff that I have seen and understood how to work a match without chairs,ladders and the like[QUOTE] Vader - he's big n' fat. Therefore... can't be a 'good wrestler.'[\QUOTE]I never said you had to be jacked up on the juice to look like a wrestler. Just said not to look like a slob. Vader in no way was someone I cared to watch but he did however fit the mold of a monster.[QUOTE] Andre the Giant - never been ripped. Why... he's Khali with a French accent.[\QUOTE]The original Giant. End of story. I don't know why your confusing my hate for the fact that Mick looked like he should have had Duke the Dumpster Drowsy's gimmick cause of his scum bag appaerance not main eventer. I also deleted the stuff about Rey Rey because he could tell a match with any POS in wrestling. I already pointed out that I like Rey from WCW and still continue to enjoy his work. Like I said I will take a look into MF and let you guys know how I feel monday. I never looked or even considered how he helped people like HHH,Rock, Edge or Orton. So with an open mind I will watch him and see what I continue to dislike or what I realize after watching him. I will however enjoy most at this point that Edge pushes himself away from the flaming table when he spears MF into it...Most memorable memory in the last few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 [QUOTE]See I don't think anyone should be on the juice. That I am against completely, along with alcohol and all drugs. Hence the reason my login name is machineSXE. I do however think someone who is in the wrestling ring should not look like any fan could jump out of the crowd and kicks ass, or like they should be at home collecting unemployment and watches Days of our Lives.[/QUOTE] perhaps its just me but i find the bearded, missing front teeth, missing an ear look, far more scary then the pretty boy look of a well chissled Randy Orton or Chris Masters. [QUOTE]He looks like crap. Some of his characters we creative and entertaining, but would have been much better suited for a manager or personality role. He had not talent in psychology because all he did was hardcore. [/QUOTE] maybe on pay per view, but nearly all of his TV matches were bog standard. You really come accross as someone basing there whole opinion on watching a Mick Foley high-light reel rather then having actually seen his career develop. [QUOTE]He was only hardcore and just about every match he had would have a special situation(Cage, Cell, Hardcore, Street Fight, FCA,). I am arguing and argument that only people who have spent time trying to make their way around the Indies would agree with. I have not met one worker on the Indies that has respected him or even appreciated what he has done.[/QUOTE] If i had a penny for every indy worker on myspace that had a pic of mick foley on there profile (usually being cited as an idol) i would have enough cash to but my dinner tonight! come on man, he is an inspiration to anybody who has been told they are not good enough! Everyone is entitled to an opinion and had you have said you don't like Foley because your not a fan of what he brings to the table i would happily let it go, but failure to accept that he brings stuff to the table is crazy! And as for comments about Foleys technical abilitys, ok he may have brawled a lot in the WWE, but how many guys of his size do you see using a sunset flip? How many guys in the WWE are allowed to do a pile-driver? Sure he could take a lot of chair shots and had a canny knack of being able to peform huge bumps, but he was so much more then that. His matches rarely failed to entertain, because although he never had the technical repetoire of Angle or Benoit, everything Foley did in the ring had a reason, that is the very essence of ring psycology! He told a story, sometimes the story he was telling was one of comedy, sometimes it was a story of brutality. But that coupled with the fact that he was one of (if not the) best mic guys of all times equates to Foley being somewhat important in the business. Sorry, im not one to go off on off-topic rants (ok, i guess i do occasionaly) but as Jagielka pointed out, he's my hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Just want to chime in and say that Andre was not as bad as Khali until his body was nearly crippled at the end of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Although I like Mic Foley, I think I share some of what Machine is talking about. First and foremost, I like to see a good wrestling match that tells a story. By good, I mean some nice technical, psychology and the like... Not jumping around and flying and tumbling around like you just come off the olympic gymnastic's team or something. If that's not what I'm going to see then..... I don't like seeing some average joe type in the ring, without some kind of hook (gimmick). Someone like a Kennedy, or AJ Styles doesn't interest me in the least..... Till I hear that "Mr. Kennedy...............................Kennedy". I can deal then.. He's a comic relief type of character that will bring some fun into storylines as well as some fun inside the ring (See MVP/Kennedy vs. Brother's of Destruction). Myself though, I would never acknowledge either of them as a bonified World Champion (even if they become one). I just can't buy into someone that looks Like I could take them out myself (just watching them in the ring). I want someone that scare's the crap out of me, or looks like they could throw me around without a problem. Giant's, Huge musclebound (Not necessarily the chiselled steroid look) or just HUGE (Viscera) guys, smaller faster technicians (not gymnasts doing flips), etc.... Bassically, I want LARGER THEN LIFE types in the WRESTLING ring. I don't care for the average joe types. I don't care for little guys trying to act grown up. I want Connan/Hercules/Goliath types, filled in with a David here and there. I don't mind David's all over the place, as long as they have great charisma/personalities, or larger then life ego's. Thats the type of stuff I want to see. Mic Foley fits my mold though... Crazy SOB with a liking for pain. That's fine with me. I don't care for Hardcore or spot based match's, but having one here and there doesn't bother me. Long as I don't have to watch the X-Division, Hooligans, or Jeff Hardy every single week, I can actually appreciate it quite a bit. If I was to see it every single week though, I would grow very bored and probably tune into something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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