The SuperBowl **Spoilers**

[nZane]

[QUOTE=machinesxe;367824]I respect that. Hell it was my first FF league and I've never been good because I would have bet 100 buck on Giants tonight if someone wanted to(IM ASS BROKE) I am a backer of my team and anyone on it. I just joined the manning bandwagon after the cowboys game though because he finally pulled through and stepped it up) I am so freaking happy![/QUOTE]This raises an interesting point: were these last five games (week 17 and the playoffs) an aberration for Eli or did he finally wake up and realize that he has some talent? For that matter, what must be going through Tom Coughlin's head, after coming within a hair of being fired last season and now this? Or Tiki Barber, for that matter? Tiki can always go talk to Edgerrin James about how it feels to have your team not able to get over the hump until [b]after[/b] you leave town, though.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=masterded;367820]All this did was increase the hate I have as a sports fan for New York a little more, and it replaced some of my hate for New England with a gleeful pity. This might sound wrong but I wish that Boston and New York would go at least 50 years without ever seeing another championship game in any sport[/QUOTE] Not as long as the Yankees and the Red Sox exist. [QUOTE=machinesxe;367815] WHO'S BETTER THE NE????[/QUOTE] Kanyon?

[Arrows]

[QUOTE=machinesxe;367824]I respect that. Hell it was my first FF league and I've never been good because I would have bet 100 buck on Giants tonight if someone wanted to(IM ASS BROKE) I am a backer of my team and anyone on it. I just joined the manning bandwagon after the cowboys game though because he finally pulled through and stepped it up) I am so freaking happy![/QUOTE] I did bet $100. Good night for me all around. Got +12 1/2 points and never once had to worry.

[Akki]

Shameless plug: For those of you who haven't seen, here's my commemorative Super Bowl Belt render. [IMG]http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3142/superbowlgiantste7.jpg[/IMG] You can find the rest of my slowly epanding library of renders at: [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29424[/url]

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=Trell;367761]AHHHHHH. I am so pissed off at the patriots right now, we had that game won till stupid Ellis Hobbs mad a bad read on the play and let plaxico burress into the endzone wide open. I am about to go down the my basement and beat the crap out of my heavy bag......AHHHHHHHHHHH stupid patriots.[/QUOTE] don't blame Hobbs. Pats played like shyte. Blame the offensive line for not protecting Brady and giving up all those sacks. Blame Brady for overthrowing Moss on numerous occasions. And most of all, blame the team for not making big plays. There was no reason that they shouldn't have been up at least 7pts going into the half. In fact, there were plenty of times they should have kicked field goals. The Giants didn't beat the Pats... The Pats beat themselves. Right off the bat NY was showing they had no business being there and fortunately the Pats, had they played like that against Green Bay, Favre would have walked all over them. [QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;367832]Not as long as the Yankees and the Red Sox exist.[/QUOTE] Please.. The only reason NY has EVER been a contender is because they have the money to "buy" everybody else's stars. And as of late, it's come back to bite them in the arse. These last few years have proven that you can't "buy" a team. And now that Steinbrenner is pretty much starting from scratch with that team, and is actually gonna *gasp* establish a team with young, fresh hungry talent instead of overpriced, greedy hacks, it's likely we won't for several years.

[AfRoMaN36]

Not shocked mentioning the Yankees would turn into that. Ofcourse your comment left aside that the richest team to win a aworld series IS the Boston RedSox and the two richest teams to NOT make the playoffs are the 07 Mets ad the 06 Sox. You forget its not "buying" players its aquiring players through the money that goes into the franshise because fans want to actually.... I dunno... GO to the games. Most owners would pocket that money.... so shame on Goerge for spending it on improving the team. What a jerk. :rolleyes:

[Trell]

[quote=Michael Wayne;367848]don't blame Hobbs. Pats played like shyte. Blame the offensive line for not protecting Brady and giving up all those sacks. Blame Brady for overthrowing Moss on numerous occasions. And most of all, blame the team for not making big plays. There was no reason that they shouldn't have been up at least 7pts going into the half. In fact, there were plenty of times they should have kicked field goals. The Giants didn't beat the Pats... The Pats beat themselves. Right off the bat NY was showing they had no business being there and fortunately the Pats, had they played like that against Green Bay, Favre would have walked all over them. [/quote] yea, now that I am not angry I wont put the blame on Hobbs, I will put some of the blame on the O-Line. They played well all year, and then crapped out on the biggest game of the season. I think the pats got off there game that helped them win games all season and that is throwing short passes, most of the game brady kept getting hit cause he was looking for the long pass and he didnt have enough time in the pocket to throw a long pass, they should have been running more short slants and curls more, but I guess I will have to wait till next year to see if they can win it. :)

[Actarus]

As a lifelong Giants fan, all I'll say is...YEAH, BABY! :D Along with: awesome upset by the G-Men!

[GDE71]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;367848]don't blame Hobbs. Pats played like shyte. Blame the offensive line for not protecting Brady and giving up all those sacks. Blame Brady for overthrowing Moss on numerous occasions. And most of all, blame the team for not making big plays. There was no reason that they shouldn't have been up at least 7pts going into the half. In fact, there were plenty of times they should have kicked field goals. The Giants didn't beat the Pats... The Pats beat themselves. Right off the bat NY was showing they had no business being there and fortunately the Pats, had they played like that against Green Bay, Favre would have walked all over them. Please.. The only reason NY has EVER been a contender is because they have the money to "buy" everybody else's stars. And as of late, it's come back to bite them in the arse. These last few years have proven that you can't "buy" a team. And now that Steinbrenner is pretty much starting from scratch with that team, and is actually gonna *gasp* establish a team with young, fresh hungry talent instead of overpriced, greedy hacks, it's likely we won't for several years.[/QUOTE] Why don't you just give the Giants some credit for pretty much dominating the game other than the start of the 3rd quarter?? The Giants outgained the Pats 338-274. If the Giants had been a little luckier, they would have won the game by 31-14. I will say if the Patriots had been a little luckier they would have won the game 17-10. Still, the Giants WON this game much more than the Pats lost it. Just for information purposes, I'm a Jaguars fan who really wanted the Pats to win because I don't like anything to do with the Mannings. However, the Giants outplayed the Pats and deserved to win that game. To say any differently is just wrong.

[mjdgoldeneye]

That was a good game... Too bad this aftermath-heartburn sucks... I can't handle 18 wings, 6 slices of pizza, a piece of calzone, chips, salsa, pretzels, soda, etc.??? :eek:

[Imarevenant]

[QUOTE=Trell;367853]yea, now that I am not angry I wont put the blame on Hobbs, [B]I will put some of the blame on the O-Line.[/B] They played well all year, and then crapped out on the biggest game of the season. I think the pats got off there game that helped them win games all season and that is throwing short passes, most of the game brady kept getting hit cause he was looking for the long pass and he didnt have enough time in the pocket to throw a long pass, they should have been running more short slants and curls more, but I guess I will have to wait till next year to see if they can win it. :)[/QUOTE] Really, it's not as simple as the O-Line just crapping out. They lost a huge piece when Stephen Neal went out early in the game. Then Hochstein had to come in and try to take his place and was clearly overmatched for a Giants front 7 that may be the best in the league at putting pressure on the QB. This was huge and I haven't heard any of the "analysts" talk about it yet. If you watch the trenches, you'll see that the center Dan Koppen was continually getting caught trying to help Hochstein while guys like Kawika Mitchell then rushed straight up the middle giving Koppen no chance to get back into position and put a block on them. This effected that whole right side of the O-Line. I don't think he (Hochstein) was fully prepared to face the type of rush that the Giants bring. They do things a little diferently than most teams. DCordinator Steve Spangnoula isn't shy about standing his Ends up and having his linebackers put a hand on the ground. He also continually changes their positions leaving the O-Line to guess whose coming and what gap they are going to attack. (It's a shame that Mathius Kiwanuka was hurt earlier in the year actually; because the first half of the season this was a wicked strategy with him and Osi Umenyiora continually being switched around, leaving offenses completely confused. The biggest example was that first game against the Eagles where Osi and Kiwanuka completely killed Donovan McNabb.) You couple this huge problem (that completely hampered the right side of the line from the center over) with Matt Light having the worst game I've ever seen him have and you get the result we all saw during the game. Hats off to the Giants though, they came with a great gameplan to put pressure on the QB and it worked perfectly.

[Wallbanger]

[quote=Imarevenant;367978]Really, it's not as simple as the O-Line just crapping out. They lost a huge piece when Stephen Neal went out early in the game. Then Hochstein had to come in and try to take his place and was clearly overmatched for a Giants front 7 that may be the best in the league at putting pressure on the QB. This was huge and I haven't heard any of the "analysts" talk about it yet. If you watch the trenches, you'll see that the center Dan Koppen was continually getting caught trying to help Hochstein while guys like Kawika Mitchell then rushed straight up the middle giving Koppen no chance to get back into position and put a block on them. This effected that whole right side of the O-Line. I don't think he (Hochstein) was fully prepared to face the type of rush that the Giants bring. They do things a little diferently than most teams. DCordinator Steve Spangnoula isn't shy about standing his Ends up and having his linebackers put a hand on the ground. He also continually changes their positions leaving the O-Line to guess whose coming and what gap they are going to attack. (It's a shame that Mathius Kiwanuka was hurt earlier in the year actually; because the first half of the season this was a wicked strategy with him and Osi Umenyiora continually being switched around, leaving offenses completely confused. The biggest example was that first game against the Eagles where Osi and Kiwanuka completely killed Donovan McNabb.) You couple this huge problem (that completely hampered the right side of the line from the center over) with Matt Light having the worst game I've ever seen him have and you get the result we all saw during the game. Hats off to the Giants though, they came with a great gameplan to put pressure on the QB and it worked perfectly.[/quote] There was a great camera shot in the third quarter that illustrates Rev's point beautifully. New England was backed up to their own end zone, and the camera was directly behind Brady, so you basically have his perspective. Just like Rev says, the center has to cheat right to support the second string RG, and just as the LG-C gap widens up, Mitchell comes barreling through at full bore and you can literally see Brady stiffen as he dumps off knowing he's gonna get clobbered. Doesn't help that Strahan is coming from around the end pinning Brady against the goal line either. I was a D-lineman in high school and watching the Giants' front four do everything they did was so much fun to watch.

[mjdgoldeneye]

[QUOTE=Imarevenant;367978]It's a shame that Mathius Kiwanuka was hurt earlier in the year actually; because the first half of the season this was a wicked strategy with him and Osi Umenyiora continually being switched around, leaving offenses completely confused. [B]The biggest example was that first game against the Eagles where Osi and Kiwanuka completely killed Donovan McNabb.[/B][/QUOTE] No doubt the Giants have a great front 7, but in that game in particular, the Eagles had an injured O-Line, and both Westbrook and Smith were out. They couldn't check it to Westbrook when the blitz came, Buckhalter couldn't run behind a weak line, and when they had good protection because they left both Tapeh and Buckhalter in to block, Curtis/Brown couldn't get open and they didn't have "Ol' Reliable" L.J. to dump it to! No to mention the fact that McNabb could only jog at the time... The Eagles had no weapons, or even a defense in that game!

[theoutlaw321]

Well they constantly beat the Pats O Line last night. If you don't believe what you saw. I bet that Tom terrific will vouch for that fact. Tremendous effort. Hats off to them.

[Imarevenant]

[QUOTE=Wallbanger;367985]There was a great camera shot in the third quarter that illustrates Rev's point beautifully. New England was backed up to their own end zone, and the camera was directly behind Brady, so you basically have his perspective. Just like Rev says, the center has to cheat right to support the second string RG, and just as the LG-C gap widens up, Mitchell comes barreling through at full bore and you can literally see Brady stiffen as he dumps off knowing he's gonna get clobbered. Doesn't help that Strahan is coming from around the end pinning Brady against the goal line either. I was a D-lineman in high school and watching the Giants' front four do everything they did was so much fun to watch.[/QUOTE] Yeah, for those like me who love to watch the trench war it was a thing of beauty to watch. Most of the time what you would see is the DCordinator overload the right side hoping to overwhelm that backup guard. That probably would have been best case scenario for the Pats though, as they could have then put Ben Watson over there to help out, and protection would have been much more managable. But Spagnoula didn't do that. Instead he had the right D Tackle attack the Left Gaurd's (Logan Mankins) outside shoulder forcing him to put his back to Koppen and the A Gap. With Koppen having to help an overmatched Hochstein it created a huge whole up the middle for Mitchell and others; (this is also exactly what happened on one of Justin Tuck's sacks). [QUOTE=mjdgoldeneye;367986]No doubt the Giants have a great front 7, but in that game in particular, the Eagles had an injured O-Line, and both Westbrook and Smith were out. They couldn't check it to Westbrook when the blitz came, Buckhalter couldn't run behind a weak line, and when they had good protection because they left both Tapeh and Buckhalter in to block, Curtis/Brown couldn't get open and they didn't have "Ol' Reliable" L.J. to dump it to! No to mention the fact that McNabb could only jog at the time... The Eagles had no weapons, or even a defense in that game![/QUOTE] Was mostly just using the game as an example of where that strategy completely overwhelmed an O-Line, but yeah, I remember that game because Andy Reid had me baffled. The OLineman that was hurt was William Thomas and the Eagles put second year guy Winston Justice in at Left Tackle to replace him. The real problem the Eagles had with protection in this game was that they were far to concerned with Strahan. I know Jon Runyan struggles mightly with Strahan but the Eagles were far to focused on the man. Throughout the whole game they put a TE or FB on the right side to chip at Strahan. But what they didn't do was help basically a rookie against a very hard to detect rush on the Left Side. I watched that game and not once did they try to Chip Osi or Kiwanuka with the a TE or FB; and that's even after Osi piled up 4 sacks in the first half! This is the game where I knew, the off-field issues were completely overwhelming Andy Reid, because there is no way that you don't give some help to a rookie tackle in their 1st or 2cd game starting, especially when they've given you a half to show they were overmatched. Definitely Westbrook being out was huge that game, but it was not a big enough excuse to let your young tackle get killed like that. Especially when you know that that defense is the best at hiding where the rush is coming from.

[ShadowedFlames]

[QUOTE=machinesxe;367815]WHO'S BETTER THE NE????[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;367832]Kanyon?[/QUOTE] You, sir, win the prize for best post of the thread.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=GDE71;367909]Why don't you just give the Giants some credit for pretty much dominating the game other than the start of the 3rd quarter??[/QUOTE] how did they dominate? It was 3-7 for like half the game. Giants offensively couldn't do anything. They did the same thing the Pats did. Punting the ball... Giants were successful because they kept Manning from getting sacked. As of midway through the 4th quarter they both had roughly the same completion rate and the same quarterback rating. The Giants offensively did not win that game. Their defense won them that game. If anything, the 1st half made it look like the Giants had no business being in the Superbowl. Winning the coin toss, electing to receive, and then putting up 3pts is an awful opening statement esp considering Manning was fortunate to convert on 3rd downs as many times as he did on the opening drive moreso since every one of those conversions were pass plays. NE's defense should have picked him off.

[mjdgoldeneye]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;368616]how did they dominate? It was 3-7 for like half the game. Giants offensively couldn't do anything. They did the same thing the Pats did. Punting the ball... Giants were successful because they kept Manning from getting sacked. As of midway through the 4th quarter they both had roughly the same completion rate and the same quarterback rating. The Giants offensively did not win that game. Their defense won them that game. If anything, the 1st half made it look like the Giants had no business being in the Superbowl. Winning the coin toss, electing to receive, and then putting up 3pts is an awful opening statement esp considering Manning was fortunate to convert on 3rd downs as many times as he did on the opening drive moreso since every one of those conversions were pass plays. NE's defense should have picked him off.[/QUOTE] Holding NE to 7 for so long is an achievement, period! The Giants were expected to score 35+ points if they were to win...

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=mjdgoldeneye;368679]Holding NE to 7 for so long is an achievement, period! The Giants were expected to score 35+ points if they were to win...[/QUOTE] again, I already stated that their defense effectively won the game for them. But to say they dominated the Patriots is silly esp considering the offense for the Giants wasn't anything to shake a stick at and for the first half of the game were effectively contained themselves. While the Pats defense couldn't get to Manning for beans, the offensive line was contained from really doing anything productive for the bulk of the game.