BluePrint83 Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 [U]WCW/WWE/NWA Title Reigns[/U] Ric Flair 46 Booker T 33 Hulk Hogan 13 Now I wouldnt put Triple H in the Hall of Immortals simply because he's not what I would call an Icon in the sport. Flair would be however. Maybe even HBK. Hogan who may be called Immortal in my opinion is not deserving. He might be a legend but I'll take the most decorated wrestler in history Booker T before Hogan. Also very hard to determine immortals nowdays because it is so entertainment based as apposed to be about skill in the 80's and before. A guy like Mysterio would never be champ in Hogan and Flairs era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=D-Lyrium;428034]First of all, Adam stated on the last page that Flair very much deserves a spot. Secondly, how can you seriously suggest that the NWA World Heavyweight Championship isn't a major world title? For decades, it was THE most important title in the world. .[/QUOTE] I was refering to the size of the nwa ;). Yes the nwa world title was huge bigger then the wwf at the time i think but the company was still a regional company in my view. I thought it only counted for companys national and above. But yes i agree that would would "just be in" hence why i said it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=BluePrint83;428075][U]WCW/WWE/NWA Title Reigns[/U] Ric Flair 46 Booker T 33 Hulk Hogan 13 Now I wouldnt put Booker or Triple H in the Hall of Immortals simply because neither are what I would call an Icon in the sport. Flair would be however. Maybe even HBK. Hogan who may be called Immortal in my opinion is not deserving. He might be a legend but I'll take the most decorated wrestler in history Booker T before Hogan.[/QUOTE] Booker T wouldn't have even close to 33 major title reigns. He'd, at best, have his 5 WCW world title reigns + his runs as a branded champion in WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=W3LSHY;428074]I am still wondering why the hell The Undertaker hasn't been mentioned :confused:[/QUOTE] Okay, look at Adam's 'Sesame Street' rule above and that should explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensai of Mattitude Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=Jaded;428078]Okay, look at Adam's 'Sesame Street' rule above and that should explain it.[/QUOTE] The Undertaker easily fits in with Austin, Flair and Hogan. I'm not sure if he's being neglected because he's not retired yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=BluePrint83;428075][U]WCW/WWE/NWA Title Reigns[/U] Ric Flair 46 Booker T 33 Hulk Hogan 13 Now I wouldnt put Triple H in the Hall of Immortals simply because he's not what I would call an Icon in the sport. Flair would be however. Maybe even HBK. Hogan who may be called Immortal in my opinion is not deserving. He might be a legend but I'll take the most decorated wrestler in history Booker T before Hogan.[/QUOTE] Booker has 6 reigns (4 as WCW champion in WCW, one as WCW champ in WWE, one as World heavyweight champion in WWE.) As Adam's made clear, the tag title/hardcore/etc reigns aren't 'major' belts for the HoI's purposes. Booker ahead of Hogan is ridiculous. Hogan may be nowhere near as good in the ring, but to claim that Booker is more of an 'immortal' than he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigas Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=Jaded;428078]Okay, look at Adam's 'Sesame Street' rule above and that should explain it.[/QUOTE] I'd think the Undertaker would be on/very close to being on the list with Austin, Flair, Hogan. He has one of the most legendary gimmicks ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddykraven Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Well I think people aren't getting the "immortal" thing because being an immortal in wrestling can't really be put into stats and such like (Yes you stressed this isn't HoF but for other sports it is the equivalent) a Baseball player is when getting into the Hall of Fame. To be an immortal not only, in my eyes, should it be what you accomplished but what you did for the industry. How big of an impact did make on the industry. While the likes of Hogan, Flair and Stone Cold are no brainers, in my book, there are a handful of guys that had a big enough impact in my mind to just make it into that immortal status. Personally, the LoD defined tag-team wrestling for their while but they wouldn't come anywhere near the HoI. Individually, no, they wouldn't come close but as a team I think they would be Immortal because of how they helped the industry. Again, that's just me. Seems the immortal thing is subjective. Also, what if you make your own universe and the way you set it up, some great guys won't make it because of the way you created the universe (on purpose...doing a territory based game for example). This is why I always look to (I'll probably get lashed at for this) one of my favorite sim games, Out of the Park Baseball. Two features in particular that they have that I wish were in TEW 08 and would make it "our game" would be the ability to export your world information (in excel or database csv or something, or HTML) for online leagues and diaries. Also, in that game, for each league or the entire game you can set what would be needed to gain HoF (again, not the same but it is for Baseball) acceptance. I wish there was something similar for TEW so that if I wanted to make a territory based game (which I'm considering doing), then I could tweak the expectations of the HoI so I wouldn't have to manually insert people when they retire if I wanted to simulate a few years to get a back history for the league. Anyway, I'm not arguing I'm just pointing out why people aren't getting the immortal thing because in Wrestling, there aren't really set stats etc. People are immortal because of what they do in the industry and how well people will remember them. There are obvious entries but there will always be people who fall just under the radar but people would still believe to make it. Examples really quick. Even though some of these names wouldn't make it under the settings, these are a few guys I'd think would always be remembered, or at least for many years past: Hogan, Flair, The Rock, Mick Folley, Austin, LoD (as a collective), Scott Hall, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Chris Jericho...etc There are a few more I thought about mentioning but decided no...others may say yes to them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=Sensai of Mattitude;428079]The Undertaker easily fits in with Austin, Flair and Hogan. I'm not sure if he's being neglected because he's not retired yet?[/QUOTE] Maybe I'm missing something as I haven't watched WWE much in the past couple of years, but I'd never put Taker in the same league as the above three. Hogan, Flair and Austin have all been credited with being figureheads of large companies for a major period of time - for me, Taker's never been the 'figurehead' of the WWE (or WWF) in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigas Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=Jaded;428083]Maybe I'm missing something as I haven't watched WWE much in the past couple of years, but I'd never put Taker in the same league as the above three. Hogan, Flair and Austin have all been credited with being figureheads of large companies for a major period of time - for me, Taker's never been the 'figurehead' of the WWE (or WWF) in the same way.[/QUOTE] Wrestlemania streak be damned. His gimmick alone makes him HOI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combatmedic Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=BluePrint83;428075][U]WCW/WWE/NWA Title Reigns[/U] Hogan who may be called Immortal in my opinion is not deserving. He might be a legend but I'll take the most decorated wrestler in history Booker T before Hogan. Also very hard to determine immortals nowdays because it is so entertainment based as apposed to be about skill in the 80's and before. A guy like Mysterio would never be champ in Hogan and Flairs era.[/QUOTE] That is just absolute lunacy to say Booker T is more decorated than Hogan. Hogan single handedly brought wrestling to the forefront. He did what Flair, Dusty, Harley, and Jack Brisco couldn't. He made wrestling as "American" as apple pie. What has Booker contributed to the sport besides a handful of excellent matches and a great character (King Booker). Booker has more title reigns simply because of the product of the times. During the Monday Night Wars, titles were changing hands left and right. Hogan came predominatly from an era where title reigns meant something. Hell, Hogan held the WWF Title from Wrestlemania 1 straight thru right before Wrestlemania 4. What was Booker's longest reigns? Maybe 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=BluePrint83;428075][U]WCW/WWE/NWA Title Reigns[/U] Ric Flair 46 Booker T 33 Hulk Hogan 13 Now I wouldnt put Triple H in the Hall of Immortals simply because he's not what I would call an Icon in the sport. Flair would be however. Maybe even HBK. Hogan who may be called Immortal in my opinion is not deserving. He might be a legend but I'll take the most decorated wrestler in history Booker T before Hogan.[/quote] Fortunately, your definition of icon has very little significance. The guy has twelve major title reigns, and easily fits in with a guy like Austin: he was less over, but he's been on top for what, 8 years now? Similarly, your opinion regarding Hogan is completely irrelevant, and you vastly underrate the guy if you think he's somehow less deserving to be in a "hall of immortals" discussion than Booker T of all people. [quote]Also very hard to determine immortals nowdays because it is so entertainment based as apposed to be about skill in the 80's and before. A guy like Mysterio would never be champ in Hogan and Flairs era.[/QUOTE] I don't even know what your point is here. Wrestling in the 80's was about skill, not connecting with the fans? Wrestling has always been about entertainment. The only valid point as far as pre-"sports entertainment" eras is that it was harder to get over without national exposure via TV and PPV, and that titles did not change hands as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamOdin Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 There is something I was wondering about... in TEW07, sometimes titles would change hands quite a bit would that drastically effect who ends up in the HOI, you know.. turning it from an elite club to dudes who got in good with the promoters and got a bunch of title reigns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew2436 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 This is quite a cool feature, I'm really loving everything about this game, Kudos Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkywinks Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 The HoI, to me, means the guys that have simply transcended the world of wrestling. Names the average Joe on the street might know. Granted this is easier for people coming along the past 10 years because of increased tv exposure, but should hold for the earlier stars as well. Flair & Hogan are #1 and #2 when anyone talks of pro wrestling. They [i]are[/i] wrestling. For better or worse, they just are. They arent the best in ability, but hell, Flair was put up on screen just for being at an NBA play-off game, people just [i]know[/i] him. Hogan... I mean, who the hell doesnt know Hogan! Now you've got to put Austin & Rock right below them. Again, not the best in ability, but they have transcended the game. The Rock was THE MAN during his time, just like Austin. They were just above it all. Shawn & Undertaker are very unsung. They dont have a huge amount of title reigns like the other guys, but since they hit main event status, they've never lost it, they've headlined manias and have been in the game for 20 years. Shawn might be the best pure athlete ever in the business and Taker... well, he has perhaps the best gimmick ever. Then, sadly, come the guys from way back that you COULD add in, Race, Sammartino, Andre, Bret, and on and on and on. Then the newer guys that you can make a play that they should have their profile listed to be added to in modern mods. HHH, cena, edge, angle, jericho, and whoever else, just in case, in your game, you take them even greater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combatmedic Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 And yet no one mentions Dusty Rhodes as a maybe. To me, he would be very close maybe in that category with Bret, HBK, Taker, and Sting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddykraven Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 If you refer to my previous post, Sting is one of those guys I had on the considered list but then dropped him. He was NWA Champion 2 times (One in NWA WCW and once in NWA TNA). 6 Time WCW Champion, puts him at 8. He's had a few battles with Hogan that I would ALMOST say were legendary just because Hogan was the most hated bad guy in all of wrestling at the time, had the WCW title reign FOREVER and I remember people getting excited when he finally won it and put the paint remover on the belt, seeing the WCW championship for the first time without the nWo painted on it. However, then again, at times, I feel he never got BIG ENOUGH. That he was never the guy that WCW rallied behind and he was never "earth shattering" in anything. I don't know...at the end of the day, personally, I'd let him in, but he'd be at the bottom of the list if I had a list of 100 EDIT: However, I forgot to mention his numerous runs as PWI Most Popular Wrestler of the Year. Also his Wrestler of the year in 1990. That would probably have me putting him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 using the stats for sting givin 6 title reigns 2 headliners *i am sure there are more but that is being tough on him* 2 show stealers *again same as above* 2 wrestler of the year not national icon he would get in with thoes stats. lowering any of the stats had him not get in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddykraven Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Thanks for running that...I don't have my PC on me, only my apple laptop atm. Yeah, like I said, personally, Sting would squeek in on my personal ideals of an Immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 [QUOTE=bigdaddykraven;428102]If you refer to my previous post, Sting is one of those guys I had on the considered list but then dropped him. He was NWA Champion 2 times (One in NWA WCW and once in NWA TNA). 6 Time WCW Champion, puts him at 8. He's had a few battles with Hogan that I would ALMOST say were legendary just because Hogan was the most hated bad guy in all of wrestling at the time, had the WCW title reign FOREVER and I remember people getting excited when he finally won it and put the paint remover on the belt, seeing the WCW championship for the first time without the nWo painted on it. However, then again, at times, I feel he never got BIG ENOUGH. That he was never the guy that WCW rallied behind and he was never "earth shattering" in anything. I don't know...at the end of the day, personally, I'd let him in, but he'd be at the bottom of the list if I had a list of 100[/QUOTE] How is Starrcade 97 not legendary? He main evented the biggest pay per view for the #1 promotion at the height of their popularity. That's the definition of legendary. He was PWI's wrestler of the year once, PWI's most popular wrestler 3 times (and yet you wouldn't call him an icon?), main evented Starrcade in 1990 against Ric Flair in addition to the Hogan match, and was the top face of WCW for about five years in the 90's. I'd like to see these 99 guys you'd put ahead of him. I can think of maybe ten, and only one that was more successful in WCW. I just don't see how anybody could say a guy like Jericho has more of a claim without having an incredibly short memory. Jericho's got what, 2 titles (3 if you count his second win of the WCW title), 0 PWI match of the years (though his WM match with Michaels was close to legendary), he main evented Wrestlemania once, and has never been voted wrestler of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddykraven Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I edited my post when I saw/remembered he was Wrestler of the year and won popular award. I did forget to add him for his Starcade match. Sorry. I wouldn't say Jericho has more claim, I did list him but I honestly was/am thinking he'll do more in WWE before all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3LSHY Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I simply look upon it a names that everyone knows. My mum knows of 3 wrestlers. The Undertaker, Austin and of course Hogan. Hell she's never seen a full wrestling match in her life and still knows who these are just because of how how well they're known. She just knows them, thats why I reckons they should be in the HOI. And everyone else along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkywinks Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 For my personal HoI -- [U]In[/U] Andre Bret Hogan Flair Race Lawler (not because he really deserves it, but I respect his work so much) Austin Vince (just cuz of what he's done) [U]Future Def In[/U] HHH Angle HBK Rock Undertaker [U]Future, Needs More[/U] Batista Cena Edge Orton This is certainly just as a start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsumstack Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Batista???:eek: How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkywinks Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 [QUOTE=Gypsumstack;428134]Batista???:eek: How?[/QUOTE] Ha! Not that I would ever put him in, but with his title reigns already, he's gotta have a shot. So I listed his profile. Not that in my game he'll probably get more than 1 more title, but you never know :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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