The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

Raw was fun. Paige's heel turn promo was a highlight, as was New Day teaming with Rusev. They actually made Kane interesting for the most of the show then ruined it with the Drag Rollins to Hell (aka GM Hornswoggle's home under the ring) segment. Should have stuck with the split personality and had Kane making Rollins paranoid for a couple of weeks. Didn't like Cesaro jobbing to Show so Show could job to Lesnar at a glorified house show. At least the Snap Suplex was impressive.

[milamber]

If you're the kinda person who can't root for a female performer because you don't inherently want to put your dick inside it you're the wrestling equivalent to the girl who only owns Magic Mike on Blu-Ray and you watch it on loop all day long while fantasizing about Channing Tatem when you bang your boyfriend.

 

I would also like to point out, she just had one of the best Divas matches maybe ever with Nikki i've seen inside the WWE at NOCs, and while I generally think knee injury match stories are terrible because it makes your potential offense is 0 or ludicrous and makes your options for spots a roll up and a punch. It came off really well and they both put in good work. Even getting Nikki over as a ring-general complete with turnbuckle sharpshooter.

 

Granted Sasha-Bayley eats it's lunch, but they actually get spotlight time and focus down there that WWE girls will never have and Charlotte and Paige are major reason those two are doing what they're doing right now. That's just undeniable.

 

She's much more than Ric Flair's daughter. I've seen this girl go 20mins with Natty, she's got the goods. Good ole' Vince and Kevin just can't pass up a chance to have her WHOOOOO 52 times and strut for no reason. "IM A PARTY GIRL" NO YOU'RE NOT! YOU'VE NEVER PARTIED ONE FRIGGEN TIME AND YOU DO IT WITH YOUR 400yr-old FATHER HOW LAME DO YOU COME OFF RIGHT NOW AGHHHHHH! It's fine if you want to get her over with general WWE viewers who don't watch NXT, for a couple months. It's nauseating at this point though and mortifying if it continues beyond NOCs.

 

Oh, and for the record, I agree with you. I'd bang every girl save Summer before I'd get to Charlotte. She's still a potentially great performer surrounded by about 5 others with similar talents. This should be a goldem era. I just hope they can hang on until Vince kicks the bucket.

 

I'm disappointed Charlotte (and Nikki) for that matter are getting so much crap. Charlotte might not be a ring general and is sometimes sloppy but she's still good. Same goes for Nikki who was the 2nd best active Diva after Paige pre-Revolution. The NOC match was underrated, IMO. Charlotte had me thinking she was really injured at first and Nikki showed she has more than just a good power moveset. Only the rushed finish fell flat.

 

I also don't mind them using Ric Flair so much. It's cheap pop to get Charlotte over with the casuals quickly, no different to heels talking smack about the local sports team. And they can't go wrong following the NXT booking. Sasha beating Charlotte for the title at Wrestlemania 32 would be awesome.

[Makhai]

I'm disappointed Charlotte (and Nikki) for that matter are getting so much crap. Charlotte might not be a ring general and is sometimes sloppy but she's still good. Same goes for Nikki who was the 2nd best active Diva after Paige pre-Revolution. The NOC match was underrated, IMO. Charlotte had me thinking she was really injured at first and Nikki showed she has more than just a good power moveset. Only the rushed finish fell flat.

 

I also don't mind them using Ric Flair so much. It's cheap pop to get Charlotte over with the casuals quickly, no different to heels talking smack about the local sports team. And they can't go wrong following the NXT booking. Sasha beating Charlotte for the title at Wrestlemania 32 would be awesome.

 

It's not so much using Flair. If he was just her proud dad in her corner and she had her spots, and he did his stuff, that would be one thing. But her using all of his pre-match spots and ramming this party girl thing, when that isn't her at all, just makes it come off like she is a complete stiff who is Ric Flair's daughter and the WWE just wanna use Ric Flair. It's not a healthy way to push anybody. She's a natural white meat babyface. That's the hardest role to play. Don't know why they want to sully that by making her some kinda drunk who wingmans for her 800 year old father. That's a Red Rooster level gimmick right there.

[Russelrules44]

It's not so much using Flair. If he was just her proud dad in her corner and she had her spots, and he did his stuff, that would be one thing. But her using all of his pre-match spots and ramming this party girl thing, when that isn't her at all, just makes it come off like she is a complete stiff who is Ric Flair's daughter and the WWE just wanna use Ric Flair. It's not a healthy way to push anybody. She's a natural white meat babyface. That's the hardest role to play. Don't know why they want to sully that by making her some kinda drunk who wingmans for her 800 year old father. That's a Red Rooster level gimmick right there.

 

If you've seen Bo Dallas and Rocky Maivia before their big heel turns, you will know that the white meat face gimmick has been dead in the water since the 1970s- early 1980s.

 

Could they tone down the Flairisms? Maybe, but if it's helping her get over with the casual audience: I'd say go for it.

[Makhai]

If you've seen Bo Dallas and Rocky Maivia before their big heel turns, you will know that the white meat face gimmick has been dead in the water since the 1970s- early 1980s.

 

Could they tone down the Flairisms? Maybe, but if it's helping her get over with the casual audience: I'd say go for it.

 

Bo Dallas wasn't a white meat babyface. He was an obnoxious inspirational speaker. Rocky when debuted was a green as grass Create-A-Wrestler and didn't belong where he was on the card, was lashed out at because of it. Had nothing to do with white meat babyface characters, which have been notoriously money makers for all of pro-wrestling at just about all points of history. (John Cena, Rey Misterio this era Hart, Hogan, Sting, Dusty, Bruno in bygone ones) With only the NWO cool heel fad breaking that formula for a hot 3-4 years and then flamed out.

 

If you can do the kissing babies, fighing champion, ra-ra role well, there is no reason to not do it, unless you already have a bigger babyface on the roster. They don't. The biggest female babyface is Bayley, she's not up yet, and only appeals to a niche teenage girl demo(which will do well for them if they use her right) when she comes.

 

Beyond myopia, and an overwhelming desire to give Ric Flair more money, there's no reason for the character they've chosen for her.

[iruleall15]

Maybe I dont like Charlotte because I hate Flair with a burning passion. But her trying to act like he does and use all his mannerisms almost heavily turn me off from her character.

 

 

Paige's promo was amazing. Playing tweener is where she should be. Against everyone I like it. I loved how she called out the reason the Bellas were on top.

 

 

 

Kanes segment with Steph and HHH was hilarious.

 

 

Also is it me or does Paige look stacked on this weeks raw? Implants?

 

 

The Wyatts promos continue to be golden as always.

 

 

Cena continues to bury talent and make the World Heavyweight title to look worse with every second. Tired of him. He is 1 man I wish an career ending injury on.

[Teh_Showtime]

She's a natural white meat babyface.

 

How is a woman whose father is one of the greatest, who endlessly talks about her dad, who towers over most of her competition a white meat babyface?

 

Part of the reason Sasha Banks got over so much on NXT was because she was facing the much larger Charlotte who had everything handed to her while she had to work much harder, in addition to their physical differences

 

She's literally the female Randy Orton, even if I don' think she's even remotely good as a wrestler.

[Makhai]

How is a woman whose father is one of the greatest, who endlessly talks about her dad, who towers over most of her competition a white meat babyface?

 

Part of the reason Sasha Banks got over so much on NXT was because she was facing the much larger Charlotte who had everything handed to her while she had to work much harder, in addition to their physical differences

 

She's literally the female Randy Orton, even if I don' think she's even remotely good as a wrestler.

 

1)right now she's not. I don't even know what she is right now.

 

2) Revisionists history. Charlotte was the babyface in that storyline. Sasha was always the bratty also ran, who thought she was better(seeds of a cocky heel) than Paige and Charlotte but when they got in the ring, Sasha always came up short. If everything is handed to her on a platter,(BECAUSE THEY'RE WHITE) why can't you beat them Sasha? That was the linch-pin of the Banks storyline. And even when she went over, she did it a completely different character(and disposition) then when she started. IE Sasha had to violate her own morality to get the job done. They probably would have ran with this in the Bayley storyline more if she wasn't immediately called up. It was masterful stuff.

 

3) When I see Charlotte bore me with a 20min reverse chin-lock, leave cloudy brown substances in dude's lockers, and throws an absolute strop in the ring when people boo her, after coming back from a marijuana suspension, we can talk. Those are the reasons to hate Randy Orton. Not his last name.

 

A more dynamic, less smooth version of Randy maybe. But I only see that as one MASSIVE compliment, not a slight.

[Teh_Showtime]

2) Revisionists history. Charlotte was the babyface in that storyline.

 

Of course she was booked as the face, but if you didn't see the dynamic in that match on top of the overwhelming physical differences and even down to her promos...genetically superior comes out of her mouth every 3 seconds and that's essentially saying she was born with talent and didn't have to work for it.

 

and I don't really hate Orton but I'm saying all of the characteristics that he had during his initial push as the young, cocky, third gen wrestler are exactly the same characteristics that Charlotte has.

[smurphy1014]

Kanes segment with Steph and HHH was hilarious.

 

I liked that segment and then when he asked Rollins if he "got the email" about his returning. Wish they'd go full on Bill Lumberg with Corporate Kane.

[Fleisch]

Someone saying Nikki was the "second best diva after Paige" shows how bad the division was. Nikki cannot act, she is like a 15 year old girl in her first school play with absolutely zero chemistry with her opponents (or own sister) or charisma. She is (at best) an average in ring worker. Natalya is a better in ring worker, and has more charisma, Naomi has more charisma and in my opinion is a better worker and Tamina has a better character in that shes just a bad ass that lets her actions do the talking. Now if we're talking about Nikki being more "over" with the fans, then I'll agree to that, but that doesn't mean she was better than those not being used, just that she was able to garner more heat from the crowd with her 1995 style teenage mean girl antics.

 

On the "looks" spectrum of things, unfortunately that is the way men and women choose their favourites a lot of the time when they have nothing else to base their opinions on. You think all those women who scream for Cena are doing it because he is the greatest thing since Antonio Inoki in the ring? No. It's because of his physique and jock style looks. However, there are those who know that "looks" don't always make for compelling storylines or entertaining matches in Sports Entertainment and those people couldn't care less if Charlotte looked like the second coming of Trish Stratus, or the twin reincarnation of Bertha Faye because she has talent - regardless of who her father is. You think Stu Hart never helped his sons? You think Rocky Johnson didn't help The Rock? or Bob Orton Jr. didn't help Randy Orton? Every second/third/fourth generation superstar have had their parents input of help along the way and to think otherwise is just naive.

 

Getting off this subject, and on to the New Day, am I the only one that thinks Kofi Kingston clapping and skipping in pigtails makes him a better fit for the Divas division? The guy acts like he's a 5 year old girl who just found out she's going to get Ice Cream after school.

[K-Nection]

Getting off this subject, and on to the New Day, am I the only one that thinks Kofi Kingston clapping and skipping in pigtails makes him a better fit for the Divas division? The guy acts like he's a 5 year old girl who just found out she's going to get Ice Cream after school.

 

The sad thing is this is the best/the most interesting thing he has ever been apart of. They are killing it in their matches and promos. I think they needed to be thrown in the mix of more than the tag team championships at this point...maybe a U.S. rivalry vs. Cena if he agrees to do favors.

[lazorbeak]

Someone saying Nikki was the "second best diva after Paige" shows how bad the division was. Nikki cannot act, she is like a 15 year old girl in her first school play with absolutely zero chemistry with her opponents (or own sister) or charisma. She is (at best) an average in ring worker. Natalya is a better in ring worker, and has more charisma, Naomi has more charisma and in my opinion is a better worker and Tamina has a better character in that shes just a bad ass that lets her actions do the talking. Now if we're talking about Nikki being more "over" with the fans, then I'll agree to that, but that doesn't mean she was better than those not being used, just that she was able to garner more heat from the crowd with her 1995 style teenage mean girl antics.

 

On the "looks" spectrum of things, unfortunately that is the way men and women choose their favourites a lot of the time when they have nothing else to base their opinions on. You think all those women who scream for Cena are doing it because he is the greatest thing since Antonio Inoki in the ring? No. It's because of his physique and jock style looks. However, there are those who know that "looks" don't always make for compelling storylines or entertaining matches in Sports Entertainment and those people couldn't care less if Charlotte looked like the second coming of Trish Stratus, or the twin reincarnation of Bertha Faye because she has talent - regardless of who her father is. You think Stu Hart never helped his sons? You think Rocky Johnson didn't help The Rock? or Bob Orton Jr. didn't help Randy Orton? Every second/third/fourth generation superstar have had their parents input of help along the way and to think otherwise is just naive.

 

Getting off this subject, and on to the New Day, am I the only one that thinks Kofi Kingston clapping and skipping in pigtails makes him a better fit for the Divas division? The guy acts like he's a 5 year old girl who just found out she's going to get Ice Cream after school.

 

Lotta hot takes here. I think you may be letting worker's heel chicanery influence your opinion of them personally.

[Mootinie]

I think you're forgetting Fleisch that being a good worker has very little to do with your overall skills and more to do with your ability to make people care about you. People always cared about Nikki, whether they were insulting her or supporting her, at least people actually spoke about her. And that makes her a good worker.

[Teh_Showtime]

Is Eva Marie a "good worker"?

 

A lot of people boo her

[Blackman]

Lotta hot takes here. I think you may be letting worker's heel chicanery influence your opinion of them personally.

 

He's overreacting a little, yes, and Nikki HAS improved a lot. She's better in-ring than lots of Diva Champs years ago. But it looks like she sucks now as she's worse than the "horsewomen" and - quite frankly - everyone else. But her acting skills a little over the top. It might suit her gimmick, though, but all the other divas come over as more natural in their promos.

 

But put her in a match with EvaMarie and you might give her some credit.

 

Also credits to Rollins for making the Tombstone look good. The one from Taker looked stupid as usual, though it's just as stupid to point it out I guess.

[Mootinie]

Is Eva Marie a "good worker"?

 

A lot of people boo her

 

That's better than silence, so yeah, I would say she's not a bad worker at all. Her narrative has provoked a reaction. That was the goal of the angle. It has worked.

[Hive]

I just read that Jimmy Snuka has finally, after 30+ years, been arrested for murdering his former girlfriend. Talk about a cold case!

 

Have I missed a discussion on this?

[crownsy]

That's better than silence, so yeah, I would say she's not a bad worker at all. Her narrative has provoked a reaction. That was the goal of the angle. It has worked.

 

Have...have you seen her try to wrestle in NXT?

 

she botched a kickout last week man. She literally forgot to kick out, and the Ref had to awkwardly stop counting before 3 and whisper to her to kick out. She was against a Jobber, so she doesn't even have the excuse that she forgot she was supposed to go over.

 

Eve Marie is currently worthless. She is "provoking a reaction" because people think she shouldn't have a Job, not because "the angle is working!"

 

If your definition is "well, the crowd boos, so good job!" I could go out there and get laughed and boo'd out of the ring. By your reading here, my fat ass would be "provoking a reaction" and thus I would be a good worker. Instead, the crowd would be booing because i have no business wasting their time.

[Fleisch]

Lotta hot takes here. I think you may be letting worker's heel chicanery influence your opinion of them personally.

 

I have no personal opinion of her. She might be the nicest woman on planet Earth in her everyday life but that isn't what I am talking about. I am merely stating that Nikki is not as good as some people claim she is. Look at her "celebration party" skit and tell me that wasn't awful acting. She can't carry a promo for more than a minute but manages to hit every boring cliche. There is no unique character there. And that's not just Nikki, as most of the roster is interchangeable with each other. She was even worse as a face so again, heel chicanery doesn't even come in to my thought process.

 

A good worker isn't whether people are "talking about you", if that is true, every one was talking negative about Garrett Bischoff and Wes Brisco so does that make them "good workers" too despite not being able to string a 2 minute match together?

 

Anyway, we'll just agree to disagree because nothing any one says will convince me that Nikki Bella was ever the "second best worker" on the Divas roster at any point of her career.

[Mootinie]

Why do people expect rookies to be like Sasha Banks or something? Eva Marie has more or less just finished basic training and is getting boo'ed out the building in a DEVELOPMENTAL territory. Imagine if you started a job, didn't do it at the level of somebody that has done it every day for seven years, and thus you got shouted at all day? That is how Eva Marie probably feels right now. But hey, at least she doesn't wrestle to silence, there's always that.

 

Good workers are the ones that do their job safely and engage the crowd. That is the only criteria for it IMO. I would say that Nikki Bella is a good worker because her matches were always okay and people always cared about what she did this week on RAW. And, I don't think she's ever injured anybody. She also worked every date she was expected to as Diva's Champion and didn't get injured herself AND filmed Total Diva's throughout that time too. I tip my hat to her for doing that and not getting ridiculously burned out.

 

Cesaro is a good worker. Ambrose is too and, contrary to popular opinion, so is Roman Reigns - he's extremely safe, he pops the crowd and he has a style that works. That's good enough for me.

 

Seth Rollins on the other hand is a bad worker because he had one job at Night Of Champions, and that was to protect Sting. He failed. He didn't tone down or change his moveset one iota to protect a 56-year old man and has probably ended his career. And WWE is experiencing a massive ratings slump with him as the Champion. Yikes Seth, get it together.

[Blackman]

He didn't tone down or change his moveset one iota to protect a 56-year old man and has probably ended his career. And WWE is experiencing a massive ratings slump with him as the Champion.

 

Not his fault, and once again not his fault. Sting came back out of his free will.

 

I'm not saying he has 'it', but he's got many skills. You might be right, though, as Sting could've brought in more viewers if they could've extended his use (excuse the expression: he's not some animal, but he did come back. That's his choice).

 

So Eva Marie might've finished basic training. It's been like, what, 3 years? (more?) I can't wait to see her when she's 40.

[Bad News Fryer]

Seth Rollins on the other hand is a bad worker because he had one job at Night Of Champions, and that was to protect Sting. He failed. He didn't tone down or change his moveset one iota to protect a 56-year old man and has probably ended his career. And WWE is experiencing a massive ratings slump with him as the Champion. Yikes Seth, get it together.

I don't usually comment here but you can't claim Rollins is a bad worker because he caused an unfortunate injury that wasn't entirely his fault. Firstly, he has had great matches throughout his time as WWE Champion and of course WWE is experiencing a ratings slump, they are bringing through the next generation of stars. Secondly, he doesn't book the matches - he doesn't get to chose whether to 'tone down' his move set, the Creative do that. Thirdly, that was not his only job. His job was to engage the audience in the matches, which he did. Finally, loads of wrestlers have caused career threatening injuries to workers, you can't seriously say that causing 1 injury automatically makes you a bad worker

[RKOwnage]

I hate to be a WWE basher, but I don't really like anything right now besides Woods/New Day and how hilarious Kane was this past week. The product just lacks the feeling of anything 'mattering' - the World Champion gets pinned more than he wins, guys in the midcard do nothing but trade off wins until they're both/all irrelevant, and the guys that get the hottest organic reactions are automatically scaled back. Nothing is really 'high stakes' anymore. I think I might go back on my hiatus that I took for a few years up until '13. Or at least not strap myself down to watch every week.

 

I'm usually not that negative and I give them the benefit of the doubt, I've just been feeling super apathetic towards the product as of late.

[Mootinie]

I don't think it was a freak accident, it was a poorly executed Buckle Bomb on a man that shouldn't have been taking it in the first place (let alone taking two...) He tossed Sting basically neck first into the turnbuckle instead of doing it extremely safely back first.

 

I'm not blaming Sting, a 56-year old man going out there doesn't want to veto spots. Pride gets in the way, if he has to admit to himself that he can't take certain moves, he probably has to ask himself what he's doing getting back in the ring. And if Sting wants to do the match like that, WWE have no real choice but to book it that way but Rollins? Rollins has all the power in the world to refuse those spots if he thinks they might be dangerous. He's the WWE Champion, he's the only man in the company that has the authority to stand up to creative. He absolutely should have veto'ed the Buckle Bomb, he had no business doing it if he couldn't guarantee that Sting would be completely safe.

 

This isn't ROH where Sting is a 30-year old blue chipper in the best condition of his life. They booked him in a high work-rate match with a man that completely failed to adapt to his style. I think he gets put in the same class as Michaels, but watch the matches that Shawn had with Sid and Vader. Shawn always worked around his opponent and adapted his rather basic style to suit the people he was working with. This was really the first time Rollins was tested in that regard and he failed resoundingly.