milamber Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 It's very difficult to undo those years of bad service though (see: TNA's X-Division and NJPW's Tag Division). They've refocused on the in-ring stuff and given the women longer matches, which was what people asked for, but it's obvious that the perception hasn't changed one iota. You guys mentioned Chyna and AJ Lee, who, alongside Lita, Sable and Trish Stratus are the five most popular female competitors the WWE has ever had in my opinion. Am I wrong in saying that all of them got over because they were involved in a major storyline with the males? Obviously you can't do that for every female, so, what is the solution? All I'm saying is that people don't seem to care one way or the other and that's been the case for about 15 years now. That's not enough, though. They can give Orton & Sheamus (both good but generally boring wrestlers) 10-15 minute matches for 2 months straight and it's not going to make people care. Add some interesting character development and a creative story and you've got a potentially hot feud. The women have basically turned into diluted gangs that fight each other and claim they started the revolution. On NXT they really did usher in the revolution with great storytelling, characters and some really fantastic matches. On the main roster they just talk about it and have matches that range from bad to solid with the occasional good match. The bookers and creative team (with Vince in their ear) are holding them back. And there's still divas who should only be used on Total Divas or future endeavoured (Rosa, Tamina, Cameron, Brie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I don't think they had too much choice though. They obviously wanted to bring in all three at the same time, not just Charlotte. You can't bring them in as individual singles wrestlers at the same time because then you get the same situation they had when they bought up Rusev, Bo Dallas and Adam Rose at the same time. You have to get these characters familiar with the audience and give them a reason to actually care about them. All three were given a winning streak (because god knows that's the best way to get people over! ). Inevitably, Dallas and Rose had to fall by the wayside because there's only so much spotlight to share and they were putting their eggs in the Rusev basket. The stables storyline with the Diva's allowed them to make Charlotte, Becky and Sasha instantly relevant, which was the operative goal in my opinion. The only alternative would have been to spread out the call-ups, but then you risk having Sasha or Becky in development for at least six more months and both are very clearly ready for the main roster. I don't think the story, nor the matches, have been great and it's a shame the perception hasn't changed but I think, long-term, this will be a good thing for the division. You can't just fire all the old diva's and bring in new ones. There has to be a steady transition from old to new and I think they're doing the best they can to make that a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Here's a thought, and I realize just how insane this is, run videos each week for a month or two that feature highlights of the wrestler who is going to debut and have them promote themselves in an interview-type setting in order to build hype for their debut and give the audience an idea of what kind of character they are in for. But I don't even know what you would call such a thing. Hypies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The stables storyline with the Diva's allowed them to make Charlotte, Becky and Sasha instantly relevant, which was the operative goal in my opinion. This isnt exactly working. Had they brought up Charlotte on her own and made her champion she would be much more established by now. THEN you can bring up Banks going against the established Charlotte. THEN you can bring up Becky and she can have two established peers as opposed to being the 3rd wheel in the upcoming Paige and Charlotte feud and forever being Charlotte's second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickymex Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 This isnt exactly working. Had they brought up Charlotte on her own and made her champion she would be much more established by now. THEN you can bring up Banks going against the established Charlotte. THEN you can bring up Becky and she can have two established peers as opposed to being the 3rd wheel in the upcoming Paige and Charlotte feud and forever being Charlotte's second. My order would have been Charlotte first to win the championship, Paige turns on Charlotte leading Becky to debut and feud with Paige. You have two separate feuds now. Charlotte is defending the title and establishing herself while Becky and Paige carry the ring work of the "divas revolution" in technical matches. THEN you play vignettes for Sasha and introduce her as the Boss. Have her win the title and you move the Becky and Paige feud into a 4-way feud between Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, and Paige who have all been building up in their own ways. Charlotte by being a fighting champion. Becky and Paige establishing their submissions against other divas and their ring skills against each other. Sasha by sheer personality, look, and gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 It's difficult to do that in that you have to keep Becky and Sasha locked away in development for far too long. Bringing them up together was the right move in that they got the NXT booking right and managed to get Charlotte and Becky out at the perfect time. Sasha obviously stuck around to do the Bayley matches and, if Becky was still in NXT now, can you do those matches? What does Becky do in NXT if she's not fighting for the title? You have to move them to the main roster when they're ready, not when the creative is ready. Otherwise you've got the Tyler Breeze situation in that he's stuck around way, way too long and now he's stagnant and probably very frustrated at having to put people over. And rightfully so, it stinks. He's ready, move him up whilst the act will still be hot for god's sake. Hype videos and vignettes are also very passé. I can understand it in NXT but considering some of the audience will have seen Sasha in NXT already, having videos to hype her debut is a cheap cop-out. Get her in the ring. We all know she's sitting around backstage, we've seen her on NXT, there's no reason she shouldn't be out there working a match. And thanks to the "Diva's Revolution", that's exactly what she's doing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickymex Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Except if you move them when they are ready and creative is not you end up with Adam Rose or Emma. There's no solid booking plan for them and they end up as nothing more than filler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Roguey Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sami Zayn is to appear on a couple of EVOLVE shows. Predictably the internet is calling this the death of independent wrestling. I always knew that Sami Zayn was a troublemaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iruleall15 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 So Cena is taking time off yet wouldnt even put someone over and give up the title? wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 He's missing one month and is still working the PPV before leaving Would you really expect him to lose to Ziggler of all people who is a lost cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 He's missing one month and is still working the PPV before leaving Would you really expect him to lose to Ziggler of all people who is a lost cause? Two months...if he keeps the title until mid-late December without appearing on TV, that would be one hell of a blow to the United States Championship. And Ziggler makes sense for one to take the belt off of him, because of the angle between him, Nikki and Cena on Total Divas, plus the rumours that Ziggler is going to turn heel soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I can't logically defend any situation that puts the belt on Ziggler after the year plus the company spent raising the title from where Ziggler types had it. One of New Day or Cesaro would make much more sense But it probably will be Ziggler via 40 weapon shots to ensure that nobody gets over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Two months...if he keeps the title until mid-late December without appearing on TV, that would be one hell of a blow to the United States Championship. And Ziggler makes sense for one to take the belt off of him, because of the angle between him, Nikki and Cena on Total Divas, plus the rumours that Ziggler is going to turn heel soon. Cena will drop it at NOC. He's working that night and then off TV. He's been telling people backstage (according to dirt sheets) that his time off will be part of a big angle to shake up the roster. Not that I expect anything out of WWE creative. knowing them it will be a returning part timer who will just hold it till Cena comes back and wins it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Cesaro please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Cena will drop it at NOC. He's working that night and then off TV. He's been telling people backstage (according to dirt sheets) that his time off will be part of a big angle to shake up the roster. Not that I expect anything out of WWE creative. knowing them it will be a returning part timer who will just hold it till Cena comes back and wins it back. I hate to be that guy, but you mean, at Hell in a Cell, right? The lack of interest does that to us sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Cesaro please. That wouldn't be a bad pick in my opinion. I don't really see Cena coming back for the midcard title after his leave of absence, so whomever it goes to could be interesting. I know others might not like to hear it, but I think it's time Cena got back to the Main Title picture. He's going to beat Flair's record eventually, as long as he stays healthy, might as well be sooner rather than later. I just hope they make a huge storyline out of it, make it a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayW Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 So Cena is taking time off yet wouldnt even put someone over and give up the title? wow You know, there's an entire booking team, right? Despite popular belief, John Cena doesn't book his own career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russelrules44 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 You know, there's an entire booking team, right? Despite popular belief, John Cena doesn't book his own career. I would like to add onto this point by saying that no wrestler should be allowed to book their careers unless if they want to suffer the consequences (looking at you Kevin Nash.) Think about it, having to help work on a script for an episode of RAW or SmackDown (the first one being three whole hours of live television) is already tough as it is. But having the power to control your own career? You must have done something to please the boss! The problem here is this; what if you botch accidentally? What if you get buried mercilessly by someone? What if you get injured or push yourself to the main title? Yeah, the backlash is going to be catastrophic. So please; no matter how arbitrary the creative team your promotion has, let them handle the shows. The pressure is too much for you to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Seemed to work pretty damn well for Misawa and Tsuruta types Oh and that Vince guy drew a ton of money as the top heel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I hate to be that guy, but you mean, at Hell in a Cell, right? The lack of interest does that to us sometimes. haha yep, right on. My fault. Honestly at this point, I only really follow NXT closely. Raw i'd say i catch in full like 1/3 weeks, and I read recaps and then youtube segments that sound good to me. Smackdown I can't even bother with anymore. Raw for me is pretty much: Is Cesaro, Owens, Ambrose, Banks, or Rollins in thsi segment? no? I'm out. I do also enjoy New days work lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 That wouldn't be a bad pick in my opinion. I don't really see Cena coming back for the midcard title after his leave of absence, so whomever it goes to could be interesting. I know others might not like to hear it, but I think it's time Cena got back to the Main Title picture. He's going to beat Flair's record eventually, as long as he stays healthy, might as well be sooner rather than later. I just hope they make a huge storyline out of it, make it a big deal. Agreed, but they need to do the Seth turn face or at least end his association with the authority so there's room. The problem for them right now is the Heel Champion with the backing of a heel authority. It kills the card. Oh are you a hot babyface? Your going to be fed to the authority. Oh your a hot heel? Well, we've made it clear that the only Heel who can be in the main event scene is Seth. So you can get fed to the Open Challenge or do nothing till we pull the trigger on Seth. And don't get me wrong, I like Seth alot, think he's done very good work. But this "sole Heel at the top with full protection" story line has gone on far, far to long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Not surprisingly Raw suffered terrible ratings. Almost dipped below 3 million in the 3rd hour. New Day were good. I like when they use established tag teams in matches against non-tag divsion opponents. Owens vs Kalisto was fun. Cena and Ziggler was good. That was about it. They fed Reigns to the wolves giving him a mic in Chicago. Brie pinned Charlotte and Paige is stuck doing the frenemies storyline again. Cesaro got a jobber entrance. Kane vs Rollins in a lumberjack main event was a bad decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Not surprisingly Raw suffered terrible ratings. Almost dipped below 3 million in the 3rd hour. New Day were good. I like when they use established tag teams in matches against non-tag divsion opponents. Owens vs Kalisto was fun. Cena and Ziggler was good. That was about it. They fed Reigns to the wolves giving him a mic in Chicago. Brie pinned Charlotte and Paige is stuck doing the frenemies storyline again. Cesaro got a jobber entrance. Kane vs Rollins in a lumberjack main event was a bad decision. That plus the fact that Kane BEAT Rollins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 That plus the fact that Kane BEAT Rollins. And Clean too. Like, i get that you are going to do the "whoa, Corporate Kane is out of a Job, BUT DEMON KANE COMMETH now!" once he losses at HIAC, and the stupid story line is demon kane is a force to be feared, unlike Corporate stooge Kane. I hate that for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is I assume evil "face" Demon Kane will go on a boring, extended revenge story line against the authority for firing him as corporate Kane. But ok, I get it, you are trying to get Kane out of the authority and this "split personality" thing is how your going to do it. but your World Champion should not be losing clean to Kane in 2015. There were about a million other ways to get to the "DEMON KANE stands tall!" ending you were trying and failing to convey last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crychon Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 And Clean too. Like, i get that you are going to do the "whoa, Corporate Kane is out of a Job, BUT DEMON KANE COMMETH now!" once he losses at HIAC, and the stupid story line is demon kane is a force to be feared, unlike Corporate stooge Kane. I hate that for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is I assume evil "face" Demon Kane will go on a boring, extended revenge story line against the authority for firing him as corporate Kane. But ok, I get it, you are trying to get Kane out of the authority and this "split personality" thing is how your going to do it. but your World Champion should not be losing clean to Kane in 2015. There were about a million other ways to get to the "DEMON KANE stands tall!" ending you were trying and failing to convey last night. Rollins has lost cleanly so many times in the past month that it's ridiculous. To Cena multiple times, to Kane. I don't think the current booking team understands that the World Champ is supposed to be a, if not the, top dog, and booked as such. The booking team has been horrible for the past month in general, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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