The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Blackman]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/10/27/professors-politicians-gather-to-warn-us-about-the-new-world-order-nwo/

 

Look who discovered the network...

[lr10540]

This is the big problem with Roman Reigns...if they want him to be the next Taker/Cena/Batista face they're doing an awful job considering how much he loses the big matches

 

People will act like the losses don't count because they might not have been all clean, but WWE(F) babyfaces have been overcoming odds for 40 years, his inability to do so instantly puts him behind those people they want him to emulate.

 

From my watching history, the only baby faces who have been pretty much unstoppable is Cena. Looking in the past one would see Hogan and maybe Warrior.

 

The babyface vs authority angle is the real issue. The three biggest guys to have done that the last 15 to 20 years have been Austin, Punk and Bryan. He's nowhere near any of those 3. He doesn't have Austin's charisma, he doesn't have Punk's realism/bravado, and he doesn't have Bryan's fan support. That's not even taking into consideration what those other 3 brought to the table in the ring and on the microphone. Reigns doesn't come close.

 

I've said it forever, he needs to be booked like Batista where he doesn't say much outside of ll"I want my title and I'm gonna kick your ass to get it."

[Remianen]

From my watching history, the only baby faces who have been pretty much unstoppable is Cena. Looking in the past one would see Hogan and maybe Warrior.

 

Sorry, if the only people you can recall being booked as unstoppable are those three, you're either fast forwarding through YEARS of booking or you don't understand what it means. Off the top of my head, the people who have been booked as 'unstoppable force' type workers have been:

 

-Cena

-Reigns

-Ryback

-Batista

-Big Show

-Rusev

-Brock

-Taker (especially at/leading up to Wrestlemania, pre-loss)

-Kane

-Big E

-The Great Khali

-Kevin Nash (Diesel)

-Braun Stroman

-GOLDBERG

 

And I know I'm missing a ton but these are just the ones that came to mind. Remember, being booked as an unstoppable force does not mean the worker never loses. It often means when they do lose, it's almost never CLEANLY (with some obvious exceptions). They "snap" and get disqualified or counted out or they compete in multi-man matches where they don't take the pin or submit. It's not often done effectively for long periods (gotta lose sometime to establish mortality) but that's not what you're talking about. The people you're referring to used creative control. Not the same thing.

[Peppermint Rage]

he did specify faces, so that knocks off a fair few from this list.

[Warhawk8492]

From my watching history, the only baby faces who have been pretty much unstoppable is Cena. Looking in the past one would see Hogan and maybe Warrior.

 

The babyface vs authority angle is the real issue. The three biggest guys to have done that the last 15 to 20 years have been Austin, Punk and Bryan. He's nowhere near any of those 3. He doesn't have Austin's charisma, he doesn't have Punk's realism/bravado, and he doesn't have Bryan's fan support. That's not even taking into consideration what those other 3 brought to the table in the ring and on the microphone. Reigns doesn't come close.

 

I've said it forever, he needs to be booked like Batista where he doesn't say much outside of ll"I want my title and I'm gonna kick your ass to get it."

 

Thing is Batista was better than Reigns is. They should push more deserving talent like Dean Ambrose. Roman Reigns sucks in the ring and on the mic. He is one the worst main eventers ever. Roman Reigns being champion ruins the whole product for me. I can't stand Reigns at all. He is a worse world champion than David Arquette.

[Dave_Scott]

Thing is Batista was better than Reigns is. They should push more deserving talent like Dean Ambrose. Roman Reigns sucks in the ring and on the mic. He is one the worst main eventers ever. Roman Reigns being champion ruins the whole product for me. I can't stand Reigns at all. He is a worse world champion than David Arquette.

 

Solution: STOP WATCHING IT AND STOP WITH THE BLIND HATE FOR REIGNS!!! Jesus Warhawk its like you met the guy in person and he crapped in your cereal. What did Roman ever do to you that made you hate him so much?! He's not the best but he's definitely improving on the mic and definitely in ring! Back up on your statement of hate! You give no reason on why Reigns is so bad except for "he sucks" "he's bad in ring" "he's terrible on the mic" "he ruins the product" "did I say he sucks?" "He sucks". I know I'm probably wasting my time trying to argue with you but seriously man, cut it out with the blind hate!!

[Warhawk8492]

Solution: STOP WATCHING IT AND STOP WITH THE BLIND HATE FOR REIGNS!!! Jesus Warhawk its like you met the guy in person and he crapped in your cereal. What did Roman ever do to you that made you hate him so much?! He's not the best but he's definitely improving on the mic and definitely in ring! Back up on your statement of hate! You give no reason on why Reigns is so bad except for "he sucks" "he's bad in ring" "he's terrible on the mic" "he ruins the product" "did I say he sucks?" "He sucks". I know I'm probably wasting my time trying to argue with you but seriously man, cut it out with the blind hate!!

 

He can't wrestle to save his life, I have seen non wrestlers wrestle better matches than Roman Reigns, who is a talentless hack. Reigns is only getting pushed because he is related to The Rock, despite having almost none of The Rock's talent. Roman Reigns is a blight on WWE and ruins the product. Dean Ambrose would be awesome as the face of the company but the WWE creative team is too dumb to push him as the top star.

[Teh_Showtime]

Thing is Batista was better than Reigns is. They should push more deserving talent like Dean Ambrose. Roman Reigns sucks in the ring and on the mic. He is one the worst main eventers ever. Roman Reigns being champion ruins the whole product for me. I can't stand Reigns at all. He is a worse world champion than David Arquette.

 

Now you're getting into subjective territory. Personally I feel like Reigns in 2015 was noticeably better in the ring than a lot of "internet favorites" (Dean Ambrose, Dolph Ziggler)

 

Maybe he just doesnt do enough cool moves

[mitsukaikira]

Thing is Batista was better than Reigns is.

 

Stopped right there.

[Dave_Scott]

He can't wrestle to save his life, I have seen non wrestlers wrestle better matches than Roman Reigns, who is a talentless hack. Reigns is only getting pushed because he is related to The Rock, despite having almost none of The Rock's talent. Roman Reigns is a blight on WWE and ruins the product. Dean Ambrose would be awesome as the face of the company but the WWE creative team is too dumb to push him as the top star.

 

There you go again. Once again you prove no facts to back up your argument. He can't wrestle is an opinion. A very laughable one at that. I think he's a pretty good wrestler. He's only getting pushed because of his relation to the Rock. So just who from WWE creative team told you that? You have no conformation on that statement. Roman ruins the product. Another pointless opinion. WWE creative team is too dumb to push Ambrose. Yet ANOTHER opinion. Maybe their saving Ambrose for the right time. He has the IC belt right now and they can't exactly just sky rocket him to the top while he's doing something else right now. You prove no legit concrete information on to why you hate Reigns so much. You're free to hate as an OPINION. But don't treat it as a fact that Roman sucks and that we're all dumb for liking him.

[The_CoC]

.... I like Bayley shes a good wrestler...

[smurphy1014]

.... I like Bayley shes a good wrestler...

 

Agreed.

[Jaysin]

.... I like Bayley shes a good wrestler...

 

Agreed.

 

I love Bayley...so does Paige...

 

She also had praise for WWE NXT Women's Champion Bayley:

 

“Bayley is literally my dream girl. She is like the best wrestler I have ever seen in my life. She was so good to see. I was getting stretched out by the doc and she sat with me for a good 45 minutes just seeing how I was. She is such a good person. I feel like she will hopefully be called up really soon.”

[BHK1978]

Sorry, if the only people you can recall being booked as unstoppable are those three, you're either fast forwarding through YEARS of booking or you don't understand what it means. Off the top of my head, the people who have been booked as 'unstoppable force' type workers have been:

 

-Cena

-Reigns

-Ryback

-Batista

-Big Show

-Rusev

-Brock

-Taker (especially at/leading up to Wrestlemania, pre-loss)

-Kane

-Big E

-The Great Khali

-Kevin Nash (Diesel)

-Braun Stroman

-GOLDBERG

 

And I know I'm missing a ton but these are just the ones that came to mind. Remember, being booked as an unstoppable force does not mean the worker never loses. It often means when they do lose, it's almost never CLEANLY (with some obvious exceptions). They "snap" and get disqualified or counted out or they compete in multi-man matches where they don't take the pin or submit. It's not often done effectively for long periods (gotta lose sometime to establish mortality) but that's not what you're talking about. The people you're referring to used creative control. Not the same thing.

 

I will agree with every person on that list but there is one glaring name missing from that list and it's Bruno. Granted that was a different time but Bruno hardly ever looked weak.

 

In regards to Roman, well I have no like or dislike for him to me he is just there. I will say this though in the words of the Iron Sheik, "Dead dog cut better promo than Roman Reigns." That is his true weak spot, he seems very unnatural when he speaks. I know he is the champion and all but he does not need to be put in those long ass segments that being the show every weak because it makes his weakness painfully obvious.

 

That is not a knock on him either and he has improved and he may continue to do so. But yeah right now that seems to be his true weakness.

 

I watched the Stone Cold interview with Ric Flair and while I thought it was good I felt like they glossed over a good portion of his career. With an hour format it is easy to do I understand that but I would have liked to have heard more about his earlier days and less about his "retirement" match with HBK.

[Remianen]

he did specify faces, so that knocks off a fair few from this list.

 

It knocks off two: Braun Stroman and Rusev.

 

All the rest have been booked like that as both faces and heels. Big Show has been booked like that almost his entire career (except the stints where they tried to make him 'the loveable giant' ).

 

One more came to mind. Matt Bloom. As A-Train, as whatever the Japanese gimmick they gave him before pairing him with G-Rilla (name's escaping me at the moment), and for a time, as Albert (before they paired him with Test & Trish, with the tattoo artist schtick).

 

BHK, I didn't mention Bruno because that was a VERY different time. It's like comparing features of the Model A with the Focus (both Fords but...), that different.

[Crychon]

I know they're trying to push Roman as one of the top faces in the company, and I know I've said this before, but I think the way to get him over is to book him as a silent monster heel with a mouthpiece.

 

Give him Heyman or something (if he's willing) have them talk him up, and most importantly, just don't have Roman talk. He tries to be cool or whatever when he speaks, and it just really doesn't work for him.

 

If he does have to talk, make it short and sweet. Don't give him time to ramble on about tater tots or suffering succotash or whatever stupid thing they think will be funny this week. Starting with shorter promos and not trying to be the "cool" guy, he can gradually improve and maybe organically become actually cool. Trying to force him to be the cool guy when he clearly isn't there isn't helping him any.

 

That said... I also love Bailey, but that quote from Paige makes me sad. Don't call her up yet. In fact, send Sasha and Becky back.

[smurphy1014]

That said... I also love Bailey, but that quote from Paige makes me sad. Don't call her up yet. In fact, send Sasha and Becky back.

 

Agree 100%. Would much rather see them back in NXT and be apart of the title hunt and perhaps a women's tag team division then doing nothing on Raw/Smackdown.

[milamber]

I disagree about Becky. She's getting over nicely as the one true babyface in the Divas division. She really didn't do much in NXT aside from the one feud with Sasha.

 

Sasha, on the other hand, is either injured or being saved for a future feud with either Charlotte or Becky. They should have Sasha feud with Natalya if she's fit just to keep her on TV. Brie and Foxy aren't credible enough opponents for her right now without Nikki.

[Remianen]

It seems fan reaction is forcing them to keep Sasha onscreen but I'm not hopeful they'll use her well. Charlotte with her father is going to suck all the air out of the room and suffocate everyone else. I don't think Becky has the fan support to be champion but it seems like they're going to keep plugging away with this storyline and the title will become secondary (a prop to give Charlotte some value). It's obvious to me that Sasha and Team BAD have just the right combination to be a successful diva stable (the wily vet (Naomi), the muscle (Tamina, brittle as she is), and the Second Coming (Sasha) ) and that could create several intriguing matchups. It's just going to take a lot more work (and creativity) to make those matchups seem important without the title.

[lr10540]

Sorry, if the only people you can recall being booked as unstoppable are those three, you're either fast forwarding through YEARS of booking or you don't understand what it means. Off the top of my head, the people who have been booked as 'unstoppable force' type workers have been:

 

-Cena

-Reigns

-Ryback

-Batista

-Big Show

-Rusev

-Brock

-Taker (especially at/leading up to Wrestlemania, pre-loss)

-Kane

-Big E

-The Great Khali

-Kevin Nash (Diesel)

-Braun Stroman

-GOLDBERG

 

And I know I'm missing a ton but these are just the ones that came to mind. Remember, being booked as an unstoppable force does not mean the worker never loses. It often means when they do lose, it's almost never CLEANLY (with some obvious exceptions). They "snap" and get disqualified or counted out or they compete in multi-man matches where they don't take the pin or submit. It's not often done effectively for long periods (gotta lose sometime to establish mortality) but that's not what you're talking about. The people you're referring to used creative control. Not the same thing.

 

I completely forgot Goldberg.

 

I was going for guys who had extended runs at the top.

 

Ryback was pushed hard and heavy early, but fell from grace quickly I believe after losing to Punk. My memory on that period is sporadic, as I wasn't a weekly viewer then.

 

Batista certainly won more than he lost, but I never viewed him as unstoppable. Maybe it was all the injuries he accumulated. I was also a huge fan from the Evolution days and his long awaited face turn, so I may be biased on him.

 

What period was Big Show unstoppable? I can't recall him ever looking unstoppable for any period of time in the WWE. Perhaps in his days as The Giant?

 

Rusev was booked to be unbeatable for a year as part of his initial push. He was never a main eventer, although right on the cusp at Mania. After being buried Cena (not a word I'll often throw around, but 4 straight? Cmon) and losing Lana, he's been practically irrelevant ever since.

 

Brock. While he is booked as unstoppable, he's only part time and wrestles what, 4 times a year? You don't see him slaughter guys twice a week in angles or matches. That certainly makes it better as it takes a lot longer to get old. I still pop when he comes out and does any sort of damage still, so it hasn't gotten old yet for me. When he came up, I would certainly agree with you there. The early Taker feuds were so brutal too. The thing was, you had guys who could push him on Smackdown like Taker and Kurt, that it seemed like he had to work for it.

 

Taker is part time as well. His gimmick since I wanna say around 09 is built on his streak. Everybody knew he was coming back to win, but it was still once a year. I wouldn't call that dominant. The years prior to that he was a fixture on smackdown going over some midcarder in the main event, as he should have, or in a program with a top guy. He has always looked strong.

 

Kane was definitely dominant when he debuted and was so for a while after. I remember seeing Vader give him a piledriver and Kane got back up like instantly and started beating the hell out of Vader. That had 4 year old me scared to death of Kane. Another I forgot. He was dominant for a long time after his debut, including flirtations in the main event scene.

 

When was Big E booked dominant? Not sarcastic. I just remember him with Dolph and AJ then my next memory of him was as IC champ. He never came across as dominant to me. Just another guy in the midcard.

 

I never looked at Khali as dominant. He looked like a giant board. Come to think of it, I never really looked at Khali when he worked. He was trash.

 

Don't know about Diesel. Before my time. Never been a fan of his in ring stuff, thus I've never cared to go back and watch any of it.

 

Braun has had flashes of dominance. He's been in only 1 singles match that I can recall and it was against Reigns. It's hard to perceive someone as dominant unless its one on one for me. He's definitely looked like a world beater aside from Survivor Series where Taker and Kane cut his legs out from under him. I'm sure he'll be in the same boat as Rusev was with Reigns playing the part of Cena. Too soon yet.

 

 

I think we have different opinions of dominant. Anybody to be taken seriously should be squashing midcard talent. What Brock is currently doing when he's actually working is dominance. He kills multiple guys at a time damn near without breaking a sweat and then dominates main event talent from Reigns to Cena to Taker. That's true dominance and he's been doing it a couple years now. However, he's part time and those dominating instances are so few and far between, it's not complete and utter dominance per se.

[smurphy1014]

Sasha, on the other hand, is either injured or being saved for a future feud with either Charlotte or Becky.

 

Reports are that Sasha has an injured MCL and will be out until next month but nothing definite has been reported though.

 

Is it just me or was Charlotte more interesting as a heel in NXT?

[smurphy1014]

When was Big E booked dominant? Not sarcastic. I just remember him with Dolph and AJ then my next memory of him was as IC champ. He never came across as dominant to me. Just another guy in the midcard.

 

Big E was booked as dominant in NXT.

[Dawn]

Reports are that Sasha has an injured MCL and will be out until next month but nothing definite has been reported though.

 

Is it just me or was Charlotte more interesting as a heel in NXT?

 

It's not just you.

[Dawn]

He can't wrestle to save his life, I have seen non wrestlers wrestle better matches than Roman Reigns, who is a talentless hack. Reigns is only getting pushed because he is related to The Rock, despite having almost none of The Rock's talent. Roman Reigns is a blight on WWE and ruins the product. Dean Ambrose would be awesome as the face of the company but the WWE creative team is too dumb to push him as the top star.

 

You still didn't answer him, but ok, keep on with the copy n' paste.

[milamber]

I'd love to see a Becky/Charlotte/Sasha Wrestlemania match. It would be a good way to make Sasha champion. Sasha needs to remain heel because that's her strength and Charlotte needs to stay heel, so the only alternative would be hotshotting from Charlotte to Becky to Sasha. But this is WWE, so Vince would probably just turn Sasha babyface because the fans chants for her.