The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[K-Nection]

That was sarcasm!

 

Sorry I didn't pick up the sarcasm....Actually he beat Chris Jericho on RAW last week....http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/zack-ryder-3248.html?prom_id=2

[LigerLiger]

In 2k16 I had Emma as my valet and Kevin Owens attacked her during our title match and got DQ'ed....screwed me out of the NXT championship. I had to remove Emma as my manager so I got a straight up match.

 

 

 

Soooo it seems that WWE just loves to remind us the Attitude Era(A.K.A ECW Edgy TV wannabe) is gone and is never coming back,even if this involves the top Face(or whatever Roman is supposed to be) hitting a woman during the ''Divas Revolution''(or whatever the new belt and debuting divas are supposed to be)

 

Well done McMahon,Russo would be proud.

[milamber]

Wrestlemania 32 Review:

 

IC Title - Great match. Highlighted a portion of the midcard and ramped up the Zayn/Owens feud. Sin Cara's performance was memorable. Ryder winning doesn't make sense so Neville was probably booked to win before he got injured but I'm happy for ther guy. But Zayn vs Owens is personal so they don't need a title to fight over anyway.

Jericho vs Styles - Good match. It's nice to see Jericho come out on top for a change but at the expense of AJ... They can still salvage this if Jericho goes on to challenge for one of the titles and AJ wins his next feud.

New Day vs League of Nations - Booty-O box entrance! Solid match but it's not a feud I care about. HBK/Foley/Austin segment was fun even if it did bury LON.

Lesnar vs Ambrose - Solid but disappointing match. Had the potential to be much better but it was too short and they wimped out on the carnage. It's almost like WWE did it on purpose so it didn't overshadow the 2 main events. Can't explain it any other way

Becky vs Sasha vs Charlotte - Women's Championship! Sasha's entrance and Eddie-insprired ring gear! Great match. Finally a main roster women's match to rival those on the Takeover shows. I'm happy Charlotte got her WM moment with a setup for a 1v1 feud with Sasha. Just make sure Ric is neutralized during their match because his role is played out now. This gives them time to get Bayley over while Becky hopefully feuds with Evil Emma.

Shane vs Taker - Solid match for 2 old guys. I'm shocked they managed to pull it off. Shane was outstanding: the submissions, beating Taker when he was down instead of letting him breathe when you're the underdog (ring psychology 101), the Leap of Faith! And they didn't need any outside interference.

Battle Royale - Fun match. The surprise entrants were indeed surprising. I was expecting Samoa Joe. Strong debut for Corbin.

Rock vs Rowan - 6 second match was still better than the expected Rock hype segment. Cena showing up was OK. Shame Bray got buried.

HHH vs Reigns - Steph rocking the leather outfit! Good match.

 

Verdict: It was an average Wrestlemania. They did better than I anticipated with a card lacking in star power, a depleted roster and Vince trying to please the casuals because of the mainstream buzz to show gets. It was less predictable than most WMs but at the expense of strong booking. Takeover: Dallas was by far the better show. The poor booking of Lesnar vs Ambrose was a head scratcher. The stage setup was pretty cool.

[milamber]

Zack living the life

 

http://i.imgur.com/wmXxJwc.jpg

[lukess11]

Keep in mind we still have the myth of Raw after Mania. My guess is a new champion of somekind, Corbin joining the Authority and Enzo and Cass debuting on the main roster to go after Dudleyz.

[iruleall15]

Zack living the life

 

http://i.imgur.com/wmXxJwc.jpg

 

I dont care about Ryder... The female though...

 

 

Wait is that Emma...

[Russelrules44]

I dont care about Ryder... The female though...

 

 

Wait is that Emma...

 

They've been dating since the year started. I'm surprised that you just now noticed actually.

[RKOwnage]

If this is Roman's character now, I love it.

[Peppermint Rage]

woo woo w.... god damnit wwe just let us have ryder, even if it's years late

[Dawn]

This has been one bizarre show thus far...jury's still out for my interest on the product post-Raw.

[K-Nection]

Zack living the life

 

http://i.imgur.com/wmXxJwc.jpg

 

I never thought this phrase would come out of my mouth but by gawd I wish I was the swim suit!

[iruleall15]

wow... That is how you book a Fatal 4 Way match. Poor AJ gets to job to a man with 1/8 of the talent he has.

[20LEgend]

While my mind had ran wild with possibilities, I still enjoyed the show (Raw). Looking forward to the World title match and the debuts were fun. The Wyatt Family thing was interesting, I thought they'd turn face after last night, but I thought it would've been bigger. Not 100% certain it's a face turn but I thought Bray Wyatt turning face had potential to be an earth-shattering moment (bringing down the machine etc.). It could develop into that as The League are kind of Authority guys but we'll see how that plays out. If this is the end of Barrett, it's a shame. I really like him.

 

Given the change he promised, it's remarkable how similar Shane's match making philosophy is to his predecessors. I thought they could've/should've done more with him, and while I can understand if he was in a bad way - and who knows whether he'll be a fixture going forward - I'd hoped he'd have more impact on how the show played out than he did.

 

The main event was a great match and there was some cool moments throughout the show for sure. Reigns/Styles is a match I am looking forward too, there's all kinds of dream matches with Styles in WWE who are similars stylistically, but this will be a very different match to what we've seen from AJ before. Putting Roman up against a face shows they're accepting what's going on with him, but I wonder whether they plan on doing anything about it. It seems to me they're just content to have at least one guy in the match cheered and I don't see a problem with that. If they're putting Roman against a bunch of well liked guys, having great matches, beating them and in turn making him more disliked, then by design or not people have got the "heel turn" they've wanted, just in a less black and white way. They just have to choose the right challengers. It doesn't necessarily have to be faces, the same thing would work in a Reigns/Owens match, with there being a strong correlation between people who don't like Reigns and those who like Owens - as long as everyone has someone to root for it still works and IMO it doesn't matter who is the "face" and "heel" because people still like/dislike one competitor and are invested in the result. Even if Roman isn't my favourite guy, I know I'd be watching matches where he faced Owens/Styles/Cesaro just for that small part of me that believed they could do it.

 

"I'm not a good guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm the guy" was a great line I thought and his overall persona tonight worked well. I think if they keep that going - with him behaving in accordance to the reaction he's getting and not just awkwardly smiling through - then he'll be a lot more enjoyable to watch.

[The_CoC]

Oooooooohh Im Loving This Reigns And Its Him Vs Styles Bahgawd!!!!!!

[kn23m]

I guess that this was the most boring post WrestleMania Raw ever...

[RKOwnage]

It was an above average RAW. I liked Reigns' new douche persona, loved the Fatal 4-Way, thought Ryder dropping the belt was pointless, Crews debuting is pointless and probably just a fill-in for Neville, Bayley NOT debuting was pointless, i think you get the picture.

 

Enzo and Cass are awesome.

 

It was a normal RAW with a couple of moments bumping it up above mediocrity.

 

I wonder how this mass exodus is gonna affect the NXT product.

[kingjames]

In 2k16 I had Emma as my valet and Kevin Owens attacked her during our title match and got DQ'ed....screwed me out of the NXT championship. I had to remove Emma as my manager so I got a straight up match.

 

That's spooky good AI, because that sounds exactly like the kind of douche move KO would pull to keep a title. And then he'd justify it and make it your fault!

 

Note, I use "douche" here as a way of saying how much I enjoy Kevin Owens' immense skill as a heel performer

[kingjames]

It was an above average RAW. I liked Reigns' new douche persona, loved the Fatal 4-Way, thought Ryder dropping the belt was pointless, Crews debuting is pointless and probably just a fill-in for Neville, Bayley NOT debuting was pointless, i think you get the picture.

 

Enzo and Cass are awesome.

 

It was a normal RAW with a couple of moments bumping it up above mediocrity.

 

I wonder how this mass exodus is gonna affect the NXT product.

 

A couple of moments bumping it above mediocrity is still forward progress in my book.

 

I'm waiting on Crews before I call it pointless. I can easily see him in an IC title program against Miz, because Miz's main function is to act as a midcard heel gatekeeper, a function I think he is actually quite good at. You need those second tier guys who can help elevate a new guy up the card, and Miz being one of those guys strikes me as a fantastic use of a useful performer with a limited upper ceiling.

 

Which makes me think the Ryder win/loss wasn't entirely pointless. If you want to get the IC strap off Owens without Owens getting pinned, the ladder match was decent. You have a WrestleMania surprise win, and more importantly, a reward to Ryder for sticking it out and being willing to go to NXT to help develop a high upside but very raw worker in Mojo Rawley. I saw the win for Ryder as a thank you & WrestleMania moment that can never be taken away.

 

Also, if they are willing to acknowledge the Ryder/Emma relationship, the Miz win opens a parallel Ryder & Emma/Miz & Maryse feud, which could be a decent way to get more than one story involving a woman going at a time, if Maryse can still go. We know Emma can help carry her if need be.

 

The NXT women's division is still reloading after the ascent of Charlotte, Sasha and Becky, and likely Emma, too. I think they have to keep Bayley around for at least a little while longer to help get the next wave of NXT women ready, or at least until you can build someone up enough to be more than a jobber squash for Asuka.

 

I mean, you're not wrong because you can't be wrong, this is all opinion & personal preference. I guess I am just feeling slightly more, and more importantly, cautiously optimistic that the Mania main event represented the nadir from which an upswing can rise. I understand anyone who lacks that optimism, though, as past performance remains the best predictor of the future.

[milamber]

Raw was a little strange. The booking invalidated most of Wrestlemania.

 

The women's segment was weird with Charlotte trying to put them and the new belt over like a babyface and be a heel and acknowledge that she wouldn't be champ without Ric, and the crowd putting her off made it all worse.

 

The main event, Maryse helping Miz win (sorry Zack!), Cesaro's return and Enzo & Cass' debut were great. I'm interested to see how they book Reigns vs AJ.

 

I'm worried about Corbin long term. Everyone thinks Reigns is green but he's almost a veteran compared to Corbin. And Apollo Crews should still be in NXT. He's got a good look and fun moves but he's not an accomplished in-ring storyteller like Owens or Zayn and and it will be a struggle to keep him interesting as a pure babyface. The Vaudevillians are guaranteed jobbers. They might beat Ascension and Social Outcasts if they're lucky.

[K-Nection]

The only way that IC title loss makes sense if they are setting up a blow off match at Extreme Rules.

[kingjames]

I'm worried about Corbin long term. Everyone thinks Reigns is green but he's almost a veteran compared to Corbin.

 

The Vaudevillians are guaranteed jobbers. They might beat Ascension and Social Outcasts if they're lucky.

 

I love the Vaudevillians, SO MUCH, but there is no way in hell they ever get that gimmick over to a mainstream audience. Aiden English is an amazing worker, and god he can sell, which means I think his destiny has always been that of what Stan Hansen called "carpenters" - the guys who build up the big stars. We toss around "jobber" when the fact is you need people to job to build a company. I hope he & Gotch have long careers putting guys over, have a cult following enough to sell some t-shirts & make a little merch money, and have an occasional Barry Horowitz push here and there. And even if they always lose, I will still love their shtick & respect them.

 

Corbin is one of the few guys in NXT to be solid in-ring (he's made a TON of progress in the last year) and still draw legit heat. He's WWE-sized and with the looming retirements of Taker, Kane & Show, there's a "big man" role opening for him to thrive in. His promo game since the double-submission tap out has really come along, with the promo on the episode before Takeover being one I'll remember years from now. He's sneaky athletic like late-90s Kane & Taker, as well. I think he's got a decent shot at making it over to at least an upper-midcard, occasional title-shot without the outcome being too obvious kind of guy, with a potential #1 or 2 heel in the company position not being completely out of the picture.

[Dawn]

The only way that IC title loss makes sense if they are setting up a blow off match at Extreme Rules.

 

Payback*

[RKOwnage]

A couple of moments bumping it above mediocrity is still forward progress in my book.

 

I'm waiting on Crews before I call it pointless. I can easily see him in an IC title program against Miz, because Miz's main function is to act as a midcard heel gatekeeper, a function I think he is actually quite good at. You need those second tier guys who can help elevate a new guy up the card, and Miz being one of those guys strikes me as a fantastic use of a useful performer with a limited upper ceiling.

 

Which makes me think the Ryder win/loss wasn't entirely pointless. If you want to get the IC strap off Owens without Owens getting pinned, the ladder match was decent. You have a WrestleMania surprise win, and more importantly, a reward to Ryder for sticking it out and being willing to go to NXT to help develop a high upside but very raw worker in Mojo Rawley. I saw the win for Ryder as a thank you & WrestleMania moment that can never be taken away.

 

Don't get me wrong - it may not sound like it, but I'm pretty cautiously optimistic about the whole product myself. I like Miz. I agree with you. But the whole thing about him winning is that he does nothing for the belt at this point. Maybe I'm just stuck on the fact that the IC Title should mean something, but Ryder holding it did nothing for it, Miz holding it did nothing for it, and Crews (or Zayn, or Ryder, or most hypothetical faces) winning it from Miz will do nothing for it. Owens holding it could have done something, but ultimately neither of his runs were memorable. Neither was Ambrose's.

 

My point is that I just want rivalries over the belt to be high-stakes and actually have a focus on the show. Can you name the last IC Title feud that had a meaningful story outside of "I want the IC Title"? When Ambrose initially went after it, I think when Barrett(?) held it, he literally said "I want my face on the wall of WWE HQ." And while that's perfectly fine every now and then, it just meant nothing to him the second he lost. People in the Crews-Miz-Ryder range should be clawing for the IC belt and doing whatever they have to do to unseat the champion and hold the prestigious belt. Guys like Owens, Zayn, Ambrose should be having blood feuds over the belt because of how prestigious it supposedly is, and how the greats have used it as a stepping stone. Instead it just seems like a cycle of "I want the belt," champion wins/loses, then we cycle in the next guy and the last guy just doesn't care about it anymore. That's all. The quality of feuds surrounding the title has diminished, and instead it's just used as a prop to have another match on a PPV or a RAW.

 

Also, if they are willing to acknowledge the Ryder/Emma relationship, the Miz win opens a parallel Ryder & Emma/Miz & Maryse feud, which could be a decent way to get more than one story involving a woman going at a time, if Maryse can still go. We know Emma can help carry her if need be.

 

I wouldn't be against this, though I like heel Emma too.

 

The NXT women's division is still reloading after the ascent of Charlotte, Sasha and Becky, and likely Emma, too. I think they have to keep Bayley around for at least a little while longer to help get the next wave of NXT women ready, or at least until you can build someone up enough to be more than a jobber squash for Asuka.

 

I mean, you're not wrong because you can't be wrong, this is all opinion & personal preference. I guess I am just feeling slightly more, and more importantly, cautiously optimistic that the Mania main event represented the nadir from which an upswing can rise. I understand anyone who lacks that optimism, though, as past performance remains the best predictor of the future.

 

You're right about Bayley. Asuka will probably get Nia Jax and/or Eva (ugh), but either way it looks like they're just going to cycle the same people Bayley feuded with. Alexa Bliss, maybe Carmella, etc. So Bayley probably should stay. Not sure why Sasha and Charlotte aren't gonna have a singles feud now, but that's just nitpicking, as Charlotte/Nattie should be another great match.

 

I appreciate the logical discussion! I like to think I'm pretty optimistic too, I didn't mean to come off like I was trashing the product. I just think there's potential, with the enormous amount of talent they have right now, to do so much more. In theory this should be the greatest output of product in WWE history, but instead we're getting anemic and tedious 3-hour episodes of a WWE Network advertisement.

 

I love the Vaudevillians, SO MUCH, but there is no way in hell they ever get that gimmick over to a mainstream audience. Aiden English is an amazing worker, and god he can sell, which means I think his destiny has always been that of what Stan Hansen called "carpenters" - the guys who build up the big stars. We toss around "jobber" when the fact is you need people to job to build a company. I hope he & Gotch have long careers putting guys over, have a cult following enough to sell some t-shirts & make a little merch money, and have an occasional Barry Horowitz push here and there. And even if they always lose, I will still love their shtick & respect them.

 

I love the Vaudevillains too and I completely agree with you. Best case, they catch on like Fandango did for a few weeks because of their gimmick, but I can't imagine them gaining any traction. But they're both fantastic and I hope they can defy my expectations.

[Jaysin]

I enjoyed Raw for the most part. Roman seemed more natural in his promo than he usually does. Hopefully he starts adopting even more cocky tendencies.

 

Enzo & Cass debut was great. Enzo is one of the best talkers in the company. Them and the Dudleys should be fun, but I miss Bully Ray. Bully>Bubba

 

The main event was great. It's awesome seeing Cesaro back and AJ against Roman should be pretty good. AJ works well with guys bigger than him.

 

It wasn't a great Raw by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a step in the right direction at least.

 

This picture of Wade was taken when the Wyatt's were attacking the League of Nations.

 

http://i.imgur.com/gNPHrhx.jpg

[Rickymex]

This picture of Wade was taken when the Wyatt's were attacking the League of Nations.

 

If I remember correctly Wade Barrett's contract was running out. It may be he didn't resign and this is him being written off. Sad that he never got used correctly. Dude was driving straight into being a main eventer during Nexus only to be kicked right back down when Nexus was booked against Cena. Dude can wrestle, talk, has the height, and is a good looking Brit. Perfect as a heel champion and as someone who could do publicity.