The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[panix04]

<p>Is it wrong that I really like how they have built up Lacey Evans? I actually think her accent makes her stand out as a performer. Her Mic skills are solid. You can learn to be good in the ring. Trish Stratus was garbage when she first left T&A and became pretty much the GOAT.</p><p> </p><p>

At first play I didn't know what to make of Bray's first proper re-debut. But I have watched it again and it has massive potential. When he is cut loose Bray is totally captivating. I loved his nxt persona the best though, the paranormal nonsense was dire. I know the WWE were trying to push him as the new 'taker, but it was more Viscera! His promos became nonsensical in a bad way and having him job to everyone just killed him. </p><p> </p><p>

Fair play he's in great shape and hopefully that will translate to his ring work. I hope they ditch the spider walk thing, it's ---- and scares literally nobody. Bring back his schtick where he picks up their limp body and waltzes around the ring. That was eerie!</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="panix04" data-cite="panix04" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Is it wrong that I really like how they have built up Lacey Evans? I actually think her accent makes her stand out as a performer. Her Mic skills are solid. You can learn to be good in the ring. Trish Stratus was garbage when she first left T&A and became pretty much the GOAT.<p> </p><p> At first play I didn't know what to make of Bray's first proper re-debut. But I have watched it again and it has massive potential. When he is cut loose Bray is totally captivating. I loved his nxt persona the best though, the paranormal nonsense was dire. I know the WWE were trying to push him as the new 'taker, but it was more Viscera! His promos became nonsensical in a bad way and having him job to everyone just killed him. </p><p> </p><p> Fair play he's in great shape and hopefully that will translate to his ring work. I hope they ditch the spider walk thing, it's ---- and scares literally nobody. Bring back his schtick where he picks up their limp body and waltzes around the ring. That was eerie!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The build would be fine, for 2005 when nobody mattered and she could wrestle Jenna Marasca or w/e and do w/e. Today, with the caliber of wrestler you need to be to get up on top of the women's division she's not up to caliber and is being hung out to dry and I feel bad for her because there's nowhere to go but down from here, unless she wins clean, and then everybody should walk out. </p><p> </p><p> She should be in NXT right now, in the performance center learning how to not almost kill someone with a moonsault. If you want to get her over you can have crews follow her around backstage, out of character, and you can have her tell that story that they loved so much. You can let her talk about her service on social media, and you can do a ton of stuff like that so that when she's ready, you can give her a clean, fair shake.</p><p> </p><p> Throwing a girl with no wrestling background, minimal training, and a ridiculous gimmick in with the 2nd or 3rd most over person in the company who got over by burying stuff like this is not a clean, fair shake. It's how you sabotage somebody you don't like, but are doing a favor for somebody else you do.</p>

[panix04]

I don't know. I agree to a point, maybe sending her straight for Becky Lynch is too much too soon. I'll give you that. I think she should replace the second rope jump up moonsault (that's what i'm calling it) with a regular moonsault (poor natty!), but her ring work isn't that bad. I've watched a few matches and she's half decent, she does need a bit of polish. Definitely not main event level, yet. But I think she's captivating!

[milamber]

Gargano vs Strong is worth going out of your way to watch from this week's NXT. These Worlds Collide shows are also interesting.

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="panix04" data-cite="panix04" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't know. I agree to a point, maybe sending her straight for Becky Lynch is too much too soon. I'll give you that. I think she should replace the second rope jump up moonsault (that's what i'm calling it) with a regular moonsault (poor natty!), but her ring work isn't that bad. I've watched a few matches and she's half decent, she does need a bit of polish. Definitely not main event level, yet. But I think she's captivating!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's part of Vince's strategy with NXT call-ups. Either you're just a warm body for house shows and Main Event (Ascension, EC3, Nikki Cross) or thrown in at the deep end to sink or swim despite being a bit player in NXT (Alexa, Lacey, Carmella) or you were big in NXT and get the rocket strapped to you out of the gate in the hopes you get over big and become a star (SHIELD, Owens, Ricochet, Black, Charlotte, pre-injury Finn).</p>

[milamber]

<p>When Bray's Fun House and a Sami Zayn promo (totalling about 15 minutes) are the only great things on your 3 hour show then something's seriously wrong.</p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="D5XWI1aX4AAYWYo.png" data-src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5XWI1aX4AAYWYo.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I guess the Revival turned down their rumored 5 year contract offers based on their back shaving segment and loss. Or they signed the contracts and Vince buried them anyway.</p>

[milamber]

<p><img alt="RX6FeX9.gif" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/RX6FeX9.gif" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Countdown to his first CZW or GCW appearance begins</p>

[TakerNGN74]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><img alt="RX6FeX9.gif" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/RX6FeX9.gif" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> Countdown to his first CZW or GCW appearance begins</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This video raises so many questions for me, no indy company is capable of this kind of production value so I tend to think that this whole thing may be a work and that he will return to WWE. However looking at the video packages produced for Joey Janella's shows and the quality of work that they do production wise it could mean that he could show up in Game Changer Wrestling. Which would be perfect for him. The one thing I don't want and I may be in the minority on this one but I don't want him to be on the starting roster for AEW and debut at DON i feel like he may get lost in the shuffle due to the fact that the promotion has yet to have a show yet and that it's a brand new roster so he may not stick out like they would want him to or like he would want to but I could be wrong. Either way while I wasn't a fan of his WWE work due to how he was booked (not necessarily his fault) I'm interested to see what he's capable of doing outside of the WWE Auspices and on his own.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TakerNGN74" data-cite="TakerNGN74" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This video raises so many questions for me, no indy company is capable of this kind of production value so I tend to think that this whole thing may be a work and that he will return to WWE.</div></blockquote> <p> </p><p> You could very well be right and this might be a work. However, in regards to the production value of the video; maybe he made it himself. I am not saying he did, but I am making the assumption that being part of the main event scene for so long he must have made a decent living. </p><p> </p><p> Therefore, he would probably be able to front the money to have this video made.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TakerNGN74" data-cite="TakerNGN74" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The one thing I don't want and I may be in the minority on this one but I don't want him to be on the starting roster for AEW and debut at DON i feel like he may get lost in the shuffle due to the fact that the promotion has yet to have a show yet and that it's a brand new roster so he may not stick out like they would want him to or like he would want to but I could be wrong.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree with everything you say. Plus I would not want AEW to fill their roster with former WWE guys (though it does not appear to be what they are doing). They should not make the same mistakes that TNA did.</p>

[milamber]

Plenty of dream indy hardcore matches if he's up for it: Gage, Janela, Warner, Jun Kasai, Masashi Takeda, Orange Cassidy, Tremont, Callihan, Starr. Havoc and Darby if they aren't exclusive to AEW.

[milamber]

Ohno vs KUSHIDA (debut) on NXT and Devlin vs WALTER on NXT UK are worth going out of your way to watch.

[LoganRodzen]

I think he has the financial means to produce a video like that himself. He certainly has the creativity to do that himself as well. The entire video made me think he was breaking out of WWE (the prison) and running for his life. His contract officially ended and he instantly begins promoting his new brand. Who knows what he's going to actually do, but it certainly makes you curious.

[Jaysin]

The video was cheesy. It looked like a vignette for Extreme Rules more than anything.

[Rone Rivendale]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I agree with everything you say. Plus I would not want AEW to fill their roster with former WWE guys (though it does not appear to be what they are doing). They should not make the same mistakes that TNA did.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't want Moxley to be turned down for career opportunities because he's a former WWE wrestler either. If he's the best dude for the job, he deserves it.</p><p> </p><p> Not a fan of the "don't hire ex-WWE guys" stigma.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't want Moxley to be turned down for career opportunities because he's a former WWE wrestler either. If he's the best dude for the job, he deserves it.<p> </p><p> Not a fan of the "don't hire ex-WWE guys" stigma.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed. There is nothing wrong in hiring WWE guys as long as they add to the product. Hiring everything with a pulse that gets released from WWE is another story. </p><p> </p><p> While I did hope he would reach an agreement with WWE further down the line, I am not on the this is a work side of things. WWE has no creativity, or allows such creativity from others, for something like this. I hope i'm wrong, as I like Dean and would like to see him succeed in WWE. But for now it might be safe to say that ship has sailed for the moment. And while the video isn't groundbreaking, it is much better than ANYTHING WWE has given him in years.</p>

[Derek B]

<p>So RAW just happened.... I'm generally all for seeing the positives, but I felt that was a pretty bad edition of RAW. </p><p> </p><p>

"Wildcard Rules" - I understand that having 2 shows presents something of a problem at times. It gives multiple chances to make stars which is good for fans, but bad for business as all sponsors and networks want those stars on their show to make ratings and money. So this feels like a way to softly wreck the brand split and to try to make the most of that, but with a Smackdown main event on the show it mostly just felt like a way to cause more talent to be under utilised. Which must be rough.</p><p> </p><p>

Bray Wyatt - I hope that is the last of the vignettes.... I like them and all, but unless they start to pay off with something soon they are just a new way to kill air time and do nothing with Bray. So hopefully we've got something on the horizon for that soon.</p><p> </p><p>

The women - where were they? I've noticed in recent weeks there isn't much going on in the women's divisions at all beyond Becky Two Belts. Even the matches have been super short and it's starting to worry me. It's not like there isn't plenty of talent around, there is just no focus.</p><p> </p><p>

Usos vs Revival - I laughed... I shouldn't be laughing at one of the best tag teams of the modern era. Hell, two of them really. And Gallows & Anderson just standing around during it too. I feel bad for the WWE tag division at times. I really do.</p><p> </p><p>

........</p><p> </p><p>

So yeah, I was left very underwhelmed by the show this week, which is a trend I've been feeling since Mania. I understand there are ups and downs in wrestling, but the WWE feels so disjointed just now and like there is no coherence to the show as a whole. So little internal continuity, and with so much choice out there if I have to cut back on what I watch, WWE is getting closer to the chopping block. It's so weird too... cos NXT is still great. Even NXT UK is good. I'm not sure how the main roster somehow feels like a step down for so many of their talents, yet somehow it does.</p>

[panix04]

<p>Honestly last weeks Raw was one of the worst I have seen for a long time. I tuned out through most of it. So much talking from people that aren't very good at it! My ears pricked up for Sami and Bray. </p><p> </p><p>

And this week I can't be bothered to watch at all. Just did a YouTube search for firefly funhouse and that will do me, The What Culture video entitled "worst raw ever" was enough to put me off, there is a reason their rating are going south. The kicker is i'm trying to convince my other half that WWE is life and at the moment it is garbage! #losingbattle</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So RAW just happened.... I'm generally all for seeing the positives, but I felt that was a pretty bad edition of RAW. <p> </p><p> I understand that having 2 shows presents something of a problem at times. It gives multiple chances to make stars which is good for fans,</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> ... Show me in the 15+ years of the brand split where it actively benefited anybody? Who's the big Brand success story? JBL? Fans get more with less. Advertisers get a watered down product. And the network has seen ratings go from high 8M viewers to struggling to hold 2M. The Brand split era has so far made exactly 1 star. Cena. The company has so many problems if I started listing them now, I'd be here next weekend finishing up, but the brand split is one of the problems, not a solution.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TakerNGN74" data-cite="TakerNGN74" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This video raises so many questions for me, no indy company is capable of this kind of production value so I tend to think that this whole thing may be a work and that he will return to WWE. However looking at the video packages produced for Joey Janella's shows and the quality of work that they do production wise it could mean that he could show up in Game Changer Wrestling. Which would be perfect for him. The one thing I don't want and I may be in the minority on this one but I don't want him to be on the starting roster for AEW and debut at DON i feel like he may get lost in the shuffle due to the fact that the promotion has yet to have a show yet and that it's a brand new roster so he may not stick out like they would want him to or like he would want to but I could be wrong. Either way while I wasn't a fan of his WWE work due to how he was booked (not necessarily his fault) I'm interested to see what he's capable of doing outside of the WWE Auspices and on his own.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I highly doubt he's going to AEW for cheap. If he goes we're talking a minimum of 7 figures for multiple years and a nicer schedule. I highly doubt he's getting lost in the shuffle. Feel scared for guys like PAC, Guevara and MJF and the girls getting shuffled. I don't think a name like him has absolutely anything to worry about. Also, why would he go to GCW or CZW? Those are bingo-hall feds who couldn't pay him. If I was him I wouldn't sign right away, I'd probably take like 3-4mos off. and then debut at All-In 2 or I'd go to NJPW for a year and work Naito and Juice or better idea. I'd play WWE and AEW off each other and get Seth/Cena money.</p>

[Derek B]

... Show me in the 15+ years of the brand split where it actively benefited anybody? Who's the big Brand success story? JBL? Fans get more with less. Advertisers get a watered down product. And the network has seen ratings go from high 8M viewers to struggling to hold 2M. The Brand split era has so far made exactly 1 star. Cena. The company has so many problems if I started listing them now, I'd be here next weekend finishing up, but the brand split is one of the problems, not a solution.

 

It's hard to say for sure without being able to access an alternate timeline where there has never been a brand split.....

 

But I'd definitely say that the dilution of main event talent across two shows instead of on one made more space for midcard acts to get more of a main event spotlight. Whether they deserved it or not is another matter, and whether they succeeded or not is another one again. But the initial split in 2004(?) made space for acts like Cena, Lesnar, Orton, Edge, Christian, Booker T, Mysterio, Rhyno, Batista to shine. Instead of being the 30th best guy on a single brand they became the 15th best guy one of two.... which gave them the chance to grow.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect. And I am saying that show quality is lower for both shows as a result back then, and perhaps now too... but it makes money because they are good enough for sponsors due to them being unassailable as wrestling's #1 even though there are other obvious issues. But in terms of creating more chances for talent to shine, you don't even need tot look any further than the current WWE champion Kofi Kingston to see what the brand split can do.

[Derek B]

... Show me in the 15+ years of the brand split where it actively benefited anybody? Who's the big Brand success story? JBL? Fans get more with less. Advertisers get a watered down product. And the network has seen ratings go from high 8M viewers to struggling to hold 2M. The Brand split era has so far made exactly 1 star. Cena. The company has so many problems if I started listing them now, I'd be here next weekend finishing up, but the brand split is one of the problems, not a solution.

 

It's hard to say for sure without being able to access an alternate timeline where there has never been a brand split.....

 

But I'd definitely say that the dilution of main event talent across two shows instead of on one made more space for midcard acts to get more of a main event spotlight. Whether they deserved it or not is another matter, and whether they succeeded or not is another one again. But the initial split in 2004(?) made space for acts like Cena, Lesnar, Orton, Edge, Christian, Booker T, Mysterio, Rhyno, Batista to shine. Instead of being the 30th best guy on a single brand they became the 15th best guy one of two.... which gave them the chance to grow.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect. And I am saying that show quality is lower for both shows as a result back then, and perhaps now too... but it makes money because they are good enough for sponsors due to them being unassailable as wrestling's #1 even though there are other obvious issues. But in terms of creating more chances for talent to shine, you don't even need tot look any further than the current WWE champion Kofi Kingston to see what the brand split can do.

[milamber]

<p>I'm pro brand split because you know without it Vince is just going to spam the same few guys on both shows and make them work to the bone on 2 TV shows, PPVs and mutiple house shows.</p><p> </p><p>

Smackdown actually had a long run of solid to good shows around the time Bryan was GM until late last year when the cracks started showing. Raw will never be consistently good so long as it runs for 3 hours and Vince keeps rewriting the script.</p><p> </p><p>

It was a mistake (logistically not financially) to split the shows between 2 networks, especially with Fox's high expectations. Vince is now in panic mode, botching the mass NXT call-ups and throwing a bunch of ideas from creative into the shows to see what sticks. Only the NXT brands and 205 Live (which sucks now because of its depleted roster) are the only shows that are immune. Ending the brand split won't help and relaxing it is stupid and already backfired this week.</p>

[K-Nection]

<p>As deep as their roster is ending the brand split is insane. Poor booking and a lack of rewarding their viewers is the cause of piss poor ratings. </p><p> </p><p>

Vince thought it was hilarious to troll his own viewers by not turning Roman or Cena heel when he was given 900 thousand chances made for "safe" predictable tv.</p><p> </p><p>

Safe and predictable does not bring in viewers it only bores the ones you have. I understand when you are making money hand over fist off of children that don't know better but even they will get bored of the product before they even hit 12 if you don't shake it up.</p><p> </p><p>

Instead of letting Braun truly get white hot they feed him to Brock and then turn him instead. Vince is too beholden to his share holders to take risks anymore. I hope AEW kicks the crap out of them to shake the product up.</p>

[Makhai]

It's hard to say for sure without being able to access an alternate timeline where there has never been a brand split.....

 

But I'd definitely say that the dilution of main event talent across two shows instead of on one made more space for midcard acts to get more of a main event spotlight. Whether they deserved it or not is another matter, and whether they succeeded or not is another one again. But the initial split in 2004(?) made space for acts like Cena, Lesnar, Orton, Edge, Christian, Booker T, Mysterio, Rhyno, Batista to shine. Instead of being the 30th best guy on a single brand they became the 15th best guy one of two.... which gave them the chance to grow.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect. And I am saying that show quality is lower for both shows as a result back then, and perhaps now too... but it makes money because they are good enough for sponsors due to them being unassailable as wrestling's #1 even though there are other obvious issues. But in terms of creating more chances for talent to shine, you don't even need tot look any further than the current WWE champion Kofi Kingston to see what the brand split can do.

 

You could do all of this without a brand split. You just maintain the flexibility that having everybody on one talent roster provides you. People argue that people need to be on TV every week. They don't. People argue that the shows need exclusivity to create their own identity. They don't. You could just book the shows to feature everybody and maintain continuity across both shows.

 

They did this for 25 of the most profitable years of their existence. And in the 80s they only had Wrestling Challenge and Superstars, guess what? It was fine. Also is it better for the WWE, NXT, or wrestling as a whole to have guys like Luke Harper, The Revival, Curt Hawkins, Balor, Dolph Ziggler, EC3, Andrade, Rey, Joe, etc wasting away being treated like crap when they could be doing much more beneficial things for the industry elsewhere? I know a lot of people are going to white knight here and say that they're getting paid better in WWE, but the truth is, the indies are hotter than ever and they could make more if they leveraged themselves properly.

 

A lot of the problems the WWE have are a lack of direction, purpose and general arrogance that nobody is on their level. A slimmer roster, with more focus, would do them a world of good. The track record is pretty clear. I just don't understand how anybody could defend this current structure.

[Makhai]

As deep as their roster is ending the brand split is insane. Poor booking and a lack of rewarding their viewers is the cause of piss poor ratings.

 

Vince thought it was hilarious to troll his own viewers by not turning Roman or Cena heel when he was given 900 thousand chances made for "safe" predictable tv.

 

Safe and predictable does not bring in viewers it only bores the ones you have. I understand when you are making money hand over fist off of children that don't know better but even they will get bored of the product before they even hit 12 if you don't shake it up.

 

Instead of letting Braun truly get white hot they feed him to Brock and then turn him instead. Vince is too beholden to his shareholders to take risks anymore. I hope AEW kicks the crap out of them to shake the product up.

 

I agree with some of this, but people mistake Vince's booking as "safe" or "kid-friendly" or "Predictable". If they booked safe and predictable kid wrestling that was coherent and predictable I'd be thrilled. Bryan taking on the unstoppable monster Braun Strowman with his sweetheart Alexa Bliss trying to get him through engineering school, while Bryan is schooling us on the value of recycling and the effects of Climate Change, Roman Reigns flashing that smile while playing with his kids, Finn teaching kids that if you eat carbs you'll never have a 6-pack like him, Seth Rollins teaching kids that dating girls who retweet photos of Hitler pony's and then choose to die on that hill, is a reeeeealy bad idea. Rey Mysterio beating that evil Baron Corbin like a drum every night. It'd be wonderful.

 

Vince McMahon runs a personal vanity project, disguised as a wrestling company. He doesn't give a darn what you or I want. He's gone as far as to continuously try and run off his viewers with storylines that insult them. He's been doing this since... probably the backend of the Hogan run when fans started turning on Hogan in 91ish. Even in this 80% now, overall ratings decline, he's got a character reading promos about how selfish and entitled we are. (there has never been a more entitled, selfish, or assinine human on the planet than the man writing those promos for Sami)

 

Any other company would be asking questions to improve things. Vince McMahon wakes up and has a funny idea to bury The Revival and makes the writers rewrite the show an hour before air to make sure his angle gets in the block he wants. Which burns out creative and drives off the TV writers they hire. This is why I can't stomach WWE for more than a month before I want to gouge my eyes out. If NJPW and the indies didn't remind me how awesome this stuff can be, I'd be long gone by now.