Jaysin Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 I don't hate Kross in the slightest. He just isn't entertaining to me at all. Without Scarlett and his spooky entrance, he just looks like a bad CAW someone made. The only match of his I have ever been entertained by was his match from Josh Barnett's Bloodsport where he faced Davey Boy Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodyxe Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I don't hate Kross in the slightest. He just isn't entertaining to me at all. Without Scarlett and his spooky entrance, he just looks like a bad CAW someone made. The only match of his I have ever been entertained by was his match from Josh Barnett's Bloodsport where he faced Davey Boy Jr. Fair enough Actually thought about the same match when thinking about his best performances. Maybe there's not enough guys who can wrestle that style, and therefore his matches are not so competitive. Escobar/Balor/Gargano are all in the different weight category. Samoa Joe fits the bill though, and I believe he could bring the best out of Kross soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I think the opposite way of looking at this is Vince didn't like NXT in 2015-2016 getting way more hype and excitement than his main roster product, so he started, consciously or subconsciously, undercutting the male talent that came up around that time (basically anyone not named Kevin Owens and arguably Finn Balor). With that happening year after year, callup after callup, from Neville to Sami Zayn to Nakamura to Samoa Joe to AOP to Sanity to Bobby Roode to Andrade to Aleister Black, the NXT brand is nothing to get excited about because you know they're going to get the rug pulled out on the main roster. That's a big part of why I haven't watched in a while. It's almost exactly the same target audience as AEW, but it's *treated* like a minor league by the main roster, whereas AEW is not. That plus the stagnant upper card roster with stop-start main roster appearances (Gargano, Ciampa, the UE guys, etc.) is just a recipe for disaster. To me, the failure of NXT is entirely on Vince for treating it like a child company if the plan was for it to be more than that. I definitely get the impression that when somebody gets called up, that's the first time Vince is seeing what they can do. It's the only thing that can explain how many NXT guys were killed in their second week. Tyler Breeze comes to mind, so good in NXT and immediately buried on the main roster for seemingly no reason but Vince not liking him. He must not have seen his NXT work otherwise he surely would have stayed there. I'm with you though, very little reason to get excited about NXT guys when you know Vince will cut their legs off. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 <p>I disagree, in the sense that some gimmicks (like Breeze's) were made for the place and time. He was always up in the upper reaches of NXT when he was there originally. But if you keep him there in the same gimmick, when KO, Balor, Shinsuke, Joe, et al are there he is a midcarder in NXT. And I loved his schtick.</p><p> </p><p> I don't follow the main roster except for results and big events, bit I will watch NXT. I treat them as separate entities - I can enjoy someone's work there and enjoy whoever replaces them if they get called up. Not as big a fan as before - just don't care enough to make the tile to follow all of it.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 I finally got to watch Money in the Bank and overall it was a fun show for the most part. I hate Nikki and Alexa's gimmicks, especially Alexa having stupid ass super powers because of well, reasons. Alexa's black gear was amazing though. I genuinely liked the way Nikki won the match. I don't remember seeing anyone climb over the rest of the opponents the way she did. Some how I skipped AJ/Omos vs the Viking Cosplayers so no comment I love Kofi, but man, it was so awesome seeing Lashley just destroy him for 7 minutes. Lashley as champ is one of the few things in WWE I love, so hopefully he keeps the belt for awhile longer. Charlotte vs Rhea was so good that I didn't even care Charlotte won. Very good match. The men's ladder match had some really cool spots. The Bugez/Riddle/Nakamura segment was amazing though. I may not like that Nakamura isn't main eventing, but at least he seems to be having a really good time with what he's given. Big E winning was dope. To my knowledge, Big E has never faced Lashley and Lashley just destroyed his New Day allies, so it would make sense for them to tango. Roman vs Edge was good, but took far too long to kick into an extra gear. Also, why on earth did it take like ten minutes for another ref to come out after the ref bump? I knew Cena was coming and I still popped for his entrance. I have zero interest in Rollins vs Edge though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 It would make more sense in storyline for Big E to go against Lashley (plus I heard he is going to Raw). But him dethroning Roman sometime next year would be massive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 So, instead of getting Finn Balor vs Roman Reigns, we're getting Finn Balor vs Baron Corbin, because that worked SO well the last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan93 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 WWE just released Bray Wyatt. There has to be an incredible story behind the last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="soxfan93" data-cite="soxfan93" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>WWE just released Bray Wyatt. There has to be an incredible story behind the last year.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hate to see him lose his job, but was never a fan of his character.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodyxe Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Wow, that's a big release. Will always respect his drive and creativity to come up with memorable characters, despite WWE repeatedly treating him like garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 No details (as there shouldn't be) if this is related to his mental health issues but if he decides to continue wrestling there will be a spot for him somewhere - even back in WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 Nothing to do with his mental health, both Dave and Sean Ross Sapp have said it was "budget cuts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 I don't buy that, necessarily, because Bray was a proven merchandise mover. By comparison, how many Mace & T-Bar shirts have they sold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demondragonking Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 The character of Bray Wyatt (the cult leader), made me pay attention to WWE again, I may not have watched their shows, but I kept my eyes and ears open to see what he and to a lesser extent the other workers were doing. IMO, creative didn't exactly treat him or the characters he created very well. I heard one rumor, dunno how true it is so take it with a grain of salt, that VKM once stated that he wasn't going to push Wyatt because he was popular enough already. In any case I'll keep an ear open to see where and if he ends up elsewhere in the wrestling world, but with his departure, I don't give two hoots about WWE anymore, not that they are crying about losing me. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eayragt Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Nothing to do with his mental health, both Dave and Sean Ross Sapp have said it was "budget cuts". If it was mental health, I think agreeing to say it was "budget cuts" would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do if that's what Bray wanted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 I heard one rumor, dunno how true it is so take it with a grain of salt, that VKM once stated that he wasn't going to push Wyatt because he was popular enough already. I never got this way of thinking when it comes to the WWE. It seems so counterproductive. If the fans like someone, if someone is getting over that you as the front office has not planned on getting over. Then you push the person that wrestler. Swallow your pride and just give the fans what they want. Maybe it will help their bottom line better. Granted I am not head of a multi-billion dollar company. Therefore, I might not understand the inner workings of the customer always being right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Plus there is no proof that it's VKM's opinion. We can assume it and speculate, but we don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 I don't buy that, necessarily, because Bray was a proven merchandise mover. By comparison, how many Mace & T-Bar shirts have they sold? You're right, logic would presume that top merch sellers are retained for the revenue they generate but I don't think that matters any longer. I found this graph very illuminating (credit to, I believe, Wrestlenomics?) with regards how WWE's business model is evolving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 It certainly looks like it's in the ballpark, with what NBC and Fox both paid for Raw and Smackdown. The fans experience the wrestling, but didn't didn't they say they were an entertainment/content creation company on one of those calls not long ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKOwnage Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 That's also how baseball teams like the Yankees make so much money these days. They don't fill the ballpark every day and make all their money off concessions and beer, they make it off of the insane TV and media deals. The live show product (or game product, in the Yankees case) is a secondary or tertiary priority in their business nowadays. That graph is a really cool visualization that makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 That's also how baseball teams like the Yankees make so much money these days. They don't fill the ballpark every day and make all their money off concessions and beer, they make it off of the insane TV and media deals. The live show product (or game product, in the Yankees case) is a secondary or tertiary priority in their business nowadays. That graph is a really cool visualization that makes a lot of sense. When the Astros got rid of everyone (a few years before their WS runs) the owner said in an interview something like "We could play in an empty stadium and I would still make money." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Plus there is no proof that it's VKM's opinion. We can assume it and speculate, but we don't know. I agree, I was more saying in general than say Bray specifically. With ratings down one has to wonder if the next time those television deals come up if the contracts are going to be so lucrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 According to reports, USA and Fox are both salty with WWE over Bray and Braun being released as they were both draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 I agree, I was more saying in general than say Bray specifically. With ratings down one has to wonder if the next time those television deals come up if the contracts are going to be so lucrative. That would be the main concern. Not sure how they supplement that with other content. Is that when VKM steps aside? He'll be 80ish when that happens, right? On the Braun/Bray being draws I can certainly see it, but it underscores something funny - booking and workrate seem to have no bearing on people getting over. Some people just seem to click with the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXminster Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Adam Cole's contract was up and nobody in the company noticed lmao This company is a mess right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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