The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Nathers7" data-cite="Nathers7" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>From the spoilers it says that Christian was just as over as Orton was and Christian was way more over than Orton at Extreme Rules so that kills the theory that this was good for busiiness. There's casual fans all over WWE's Facebook page calling this one of the worst booking decisions ever. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Even though I disagree with the title switch, I don't agree with this. I just don't believe Christian is more over than Orton. And I didn't know "casual fans" read spoilers.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Orton is going to be the guy Smackdown is built around so it makes sense he gets the World title. Will Christian be harmed by dropping the belt so quickly? In the short-term, yes, because he comes off as guy who can't cut it as World champion. Depending on what they have planned for Christian, the damage might only be short-term; if the idea is to make him the top heel on Smackdown to feud with Orton, then he can be rebuilt to where the short title reign doesn't hurt him so much because it adds to his character and can be a logical part of why he turns heel. However, if Christian getting the belt was strictly to transition it to Orton, and Christian is put back in the midcard and used to get over the heels they <em>do</em> have plans for, then the short title run just puts the rubber stamp on Christian as someone they flat out do not see as a top level guy.<p> </p><p> The reason for the short title run will become clear quickly, but if I'm playing the odds, I'd say it was just to get the belt to Orton.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Of course that's the reason for it. But it didn't need to happen this week. Do they need Orton as champ before Over the Limit to sell the PPV? No. I'm not going to argue with Orton getting the belt then (I would have prefered one PPV title defense vs a heel first), but it didn't need to be switched now.</p>

[The Shape]

<p>You don't need the belt on Orton right away to build the brand around him though. The only feuds there for him now are guys he's feuded with before who (except for Cody) are less over then than they are now.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, turning Christian heel when Smackdown have so many compared to so few faces and Christian is as over as a face as he's been since he got back and have all the support behind him on account of Edge's retirement would be one of the single stupidest ideas ever.</p>

[eayragt]

However, in an unrelated note, it looks like Kharma wont be able to flash us if she wrestles in that gear, which is a good thing.

[Fantabulous]

<p>Unless Christian is turning heel, the only reason I can see as to why they felt they had to get the belt on Orton so quickly is that they have no faith at all in Christian as World Champion for any length of time. </p><p> </p><p>

On the Smackdown heel front, they do have a number of heels, but they have nobody that they can plug into the top slot right away that has any immediate credibility. Sheamus just lost the US Title to Kofi and is still recovering from the many month burial on Raw. Wade Barrett looks set for a midcard feud as part of The Corre against Ezekiel Jackson. Mark Henry is, well, he's Mark Henry. The matches would suck and when they do push him it's usually a short-term deal to put over a big babyface. Cody Rhodes just lost a feud to Rey and, to be blunt, he just can't cut it as a serious threat to anyone. Other than those guys, we're getting into pure midcard territory when it comes to heels. Christian has a proven track record, to them, as a heel. They know the matches will be good. And, most importantly, they won't have a problem with putting Orton over him clean in the big matches.</p>

[The Shape]

<p>Sheamus was a WWE Champion just last year and though he lost the title it's something he's one big kick away from recovering all of that heat. </p><p> </p><p>

Barrett is himself only a few months removed from Raw's main event scene and the Zeke stuff could easily have come along with part of a greater storyline, he's backed by a stable that remains a credible threat.</p><p> </p><p>

There would be a ready made angle between Christian and any younger guy about how long it took him to get where he is compared to them, that would benefit the heels a whole lot more than getting RKO'd week in week out. If these guys are gonna do anything with Orton as champ they need Christian to feud with, title or not.</p><p> </p><p>

Being a credible heel is much, much easier than being a credible face, you just need a credible face to do it. It's nowhere near as hard as you make it sound, and turning Christian would mean Smackdown's next biggest faces were Daniel Bryan and Sin Cara. It'd be so stupid that I fully expect them to do it.</p>

[Fantabulous]

Sheamus was a WWE Champion just last year and though he lost the title it's something he's one big kick away from recovering all of that heat.

 

Barrett is himself only a few months removed from Raw's main event scene and the Zeke stuff could easily have come along with part of a greater storyline, he's backed by a stable that remains a credible threat.

 

Being a credible heel is much, much easier than being a credible face, you just need a credible face to do it. It's nowhere near as hard as you make it sound, and turning Christian would mean Smackdown's next biggest faces were Daniel Bryan and Sin Cara. It'd be so stupid that I fully expect them to do it.

Sheamus was champion but his title reign was secondary to the Cena/Nexus feud. He won the title on a fluke, never got any big wins and once the run was over he was turned into a joke as the King and then buried for weeks culminating in that comical burial by Triple H.

 

Barrett was in the main event scene, but was a virtual jobber against against Superman Cena. He did get a win over Cena to force Cena into Nexus but that whole thing was so badly booked it didn't do him any favours. Since coming to Smackdown, it's been nothing but the midcard and he's clearly being set up to get over Ezekiel as a babyface.

 

Treatment like this takes time to recover from to where the person involved can actually mean something when put in a top level position. If it all it takes is a credible babyface, Raw would doing gangbusters with Superman Cena and they wouldn't have needed to work so hard to put over Miz in the last six weeks heading into Wrestlemania. And even then, it didn't take.

 

But yeah, not hard at all. (!)

[The Shape]

Wrestlemania is different. To make someone a credible threat for a PPV like Over the limit, especially on Smackdown for the secondary main event, all you need to do is have them attack the champ a couple of times. Or at least that's what they've done many, many times before.

[liontamer]

heard a lot of hype on Kharma, her debut was decent but nothing special. She did that basically every week in TNA. Thiis character seems more interesting and may get a bigger fan reaction, but I still prefer the Awesome Kong music. The laughing in the WWE music was a good touch, but I still think it's missing something and hope the develop it further.

 

And as for the people complaining about the Rock's TV time, that's basically what the Rock does. He was all over every show during his WWE runs. why is this a surprise? He's the best entertainer in the company, if they can get easy money plastering his face all of the screen without having to even wrestle, why not? It's what made him famous and is probably why you aren't watching Nitro anymore.

[Fantabulous]

It's what made him famous and is probably why you aren't watching Nitro anymore.

No, Nitro being written by a complete idiot for three months and then six more months the following year and driving even the hardest of the hardcore fans away is why we're not watching Nitro any more.

 

But hey; all they needed was a credible babyface on top and they'd have come up roses.

[juggaloninjalee]

No, Nitro being written by a complete idiot for three months and then six more months the following year and driving even the hardest of the hardcore fans away is why we're not watching Nitro any more.

 

But hey; all they needed was a credible babyface on top and they'd have come up roses.

 

LOL *Thumbs up*

[ewanite]

No, Nitro being written by a complete idiot for three months and then six more months the following year and driving even the hardest of the hardcore fans away is why we're not watching Nitro any more.

 

But hey; all they needed was a credible babyface on top and they'd have come up roses.

 

No, big contracts and a corporate merger involving a company who wanted nothing to do with wrestling is why we're not watching Nitro any more.

[crownsy]

<p>Just to echo what other people have said much better above me, It's not the fact that orton went over that makes me hate this move, it's that you just created this emotional moment last night, made every edge mark a christan fan, played up what a huge accomplishment winning that title is and then...</p><p> </p><p>

He losses it a week later in a glorified squash to Orton. This is problematic for a bunch of good booking reasons, but here's the top ones.</p><p> </p><p>

1) It makes the title, and smackdown by proxy, look like a joke - This is supposed to be a title that is (according to cannon, not reality) on par with the WWE title....yet Orton can win it at the drop of a hat, not even having to wait for a PPV or even win a #1 contenders match. This sells to the viewer that they might as well not watch smackdown, because everyone but randy is a joke and a waste of their time. It sets up the "Randy is the Raw guy on smackdown" vibe.</p><p> </p><p>

2) It completely kills Christans new pop, which despite what some in this forum are trying to say, has been huge since he became the "stand in" for edge emotionally with the casual fans.</p><p> </p><p>

This could have been a Rey-Eddy situation, where you gave Rey the title, and gave him a decent transitional run, and thus locked up Eddys fans for life. You could have had that same effect here and made yourself another great asset to the company</p><p> </p><p>

Instead, you made him look like a complete failure at carrying on his friends legacy. good booking <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

3) It just makes no sense, Even from a business standpoint! I mean, yes, it makes sense to have the title on orton but</p><p> </p><p>

1. Why give this away for free? your next PPV is in 3 freaking weeks! you couldn't have done a 3 episode "I respect you, but that's my belt" Storyline to make this match actually not feel like garbage?</p><p> </p><p>

2. Also, why does Orton need that title ASAP? This seems to play into WWE creative's retarded belief that they have separate audiences for raw and smackdown, and that they need to "introduce" orton to the fans as the main player on that brand by giving him the title. News flash WWE, we all know who randy orton is. He didn't show up on smackdown last week lacking in creditability as a ME <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

3. And according to reports, the first guy in line for this title is....mark henry??? we needed to hot swap this title so that Randy Orton could save us from the force that is mark henry? Seems like a fued you could have let Christan handle, since they've had that fued on sunday night heat....which is where mark henry belongs.</p><p> </p><p>

4. I just don't buy that randy Needs to have the Belt for the WWE to sell PPV's when Cena has it on Raw. We now have the two people fans complained about being the non-stop focus of Raw as champs on two separate brands....weeeee. Long term do you put the title on Randy? of course. but why not have him fued with someone (Cody seems like a ready made opponent) over him trying to act like he's the big dog after just getting here, have him win said fued, then get the title of whatever heel Christan drops it to?</p><p> </p><p>

just reaks of both laziness and the fact (and there are some rumor sites that say this) Vince still feels very betrayed by Christan over going to TNA, and felt in a corner about giving him the title, but pulled the trigger on a squash ASAP to punish him yet again</p><p> </p><p>

I for one can't wait till Steph and HHH take over the company's direction...it can't get no worse</p><p> </p><p>

Spoilers in white (dunno why i bother, but this hasent been mentioned yet</p><p> </p><p>

<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">We'll know if this is a turn attempt if Orton's words after the match are on the show</span></p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;"> </span></p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;">

Apparently after He left he came back out and told the live crowd (who, people who say Christan has no pop, were chanting for him) That they should enjoy thier night, put on the old legacy randy smirk and said "and remeber....I'm Your new World Champion" to alot of boos</span></p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;"> </span></p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;">

If they show that Mabey they are turning Randy back heel, which is good since he's a Meh babyface and has said in interviews he isn't comfortable playing one, thats the only real way i can even begin to understand creatives thinking...and even that seems rushed could have done the same thing at ER</span></p>

[Fantabulous]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ewanite" data-cite="ewanite" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No, big contracts and a corporate merger involving a company who wanted nothing to do with wrestling is why we're not watching Nitro any more.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They had those contracts when they were riding sky high; they weren't a problem then. And it was a corporate merger that forced Eric, Hulk, Russo, Nash, etc. to book the company into the ground?</p>

[juggaloninjalee]

The only reason WCW is gone is because when the merger happened the people in charge wanted to get as far away from being affiliated with wrestling as they could. There isn't any other reason except they just didn't want wrestling on their networks or associated with them.

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> And it was a corporate merger that forced Eric, Hulk, Russo, Nash, etc. to book the company into the ground?</div></blockquote><p> No, it was a corporate merger that resulted in Nitro losing its spot on TNT, thus rendering WCW worthless to the Bischoff-led group looking to purchase it, and enabling Vince to swoop in and buy it on the cheap. I agree that the company was plagued by horrible booking for its last couple of years at least, but the AOL/Time Warner merger had far more to do with the death of WCW than the lousy booking did.</p>

[Fantabulous]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="juggaloninjalee" data-cite="juggaloninjalee" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The only reason WCW is gone is because when the merger happened the people in charge wanted to get as far away from being affiliated with wrestling as they could. There isn't any other reason except they just didn't want wrestling on their networks or associated with them.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nitro was able to cancelled because the ratings had gone into the crapper. And that was down to..well, I won't give the answer away.</p>

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Final Countdown" data-cite="The Final Countdown" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No, it was a corporate merger that resulted in Nitro losing its spot on TNT, thus rendering WCW worthless to the Bischoff-led group looking to purchase it, and enabling Vince to swoop in and buy it on the cheap. I agree that the company was plagued by horrible booking for its last couple of years at least, but the AOL/Time Warner merger had far more to do with the death of WCW than the lousy booking did.</div></blockquote><p> That's a fair point, though, to be even more fair, if WCW had been booked correctly, I doubt they would have sold WCW. They have disliked wrestling, but even they wouldn't not get rid of a well-run, money-making, operation. The problem was, it wasn't that, AND they didn't want it.</p>

[ZMAN]

<p>On the topic of Kharma...</p><p> </p><p>

The current diva/womens scene is so dry right now. If I were runnin' this show, I'd make Kharma the Andre of the womens division. Over the year have her squash the plastic divas on tv, then have some competitive feuds where she'd go over gals like Kim, Nat, and Beth. A real threat pretty much. WM rolls around, bring in Trish and you got your Hogan-Andre match.</p>

[juggaloninjalee]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ZMAN" data-cite="ZMAN" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>On the topic of Kharma...<p> </p><p> The current diva/womens scene is so dry right now. If I were runnin' this show, I'd make Kharma the Andre of the womens division. Over the year have her squash the plastic divas on tv, then have some competitive feuds where she'd go over gals like Kim, Nat, and Beth. A real threat pretty much. WM rolls around, bring in Trish and you got your Hogan-Andre match.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd love for this to happen. Kong aka Kharma is awesome! She should get a huge push. She could even be the Chyna of this era. Maybe battle men and be competitive even.</p>

[LoNdOn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="juggaloninjalee" data-cite="juggaloninjalee" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'd love for this to happen. Kong aka Kharma is awesome! She should get a huge push. She could even be the Chyna of this era. Maybe battle men and be competitive even.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Even though I really dislike seeing guys wrestling girls I wouldn't mind seeing Kharma compete and beat some of the males at all.</p>

[ewanite]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>They had those contracts when they were riding sky high; they weren't a problem then. And it was a corporate merger that forced Eric, Hulk, Russo, Nash, etc. to book the company into the ground?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Those contracts were always causing the company to bleed money but Turner didn't care. The way he saw it, TV shows cost money to make and so it didn't need to make a profit as its own organisation. It just needed to make money for the network (As an aside, this is also why most of the 'big' moments in WCW occured on Nitro and not PPV. WCW was very much focused on TV and not PPV). AOL-Time Warner didn't care about the ratings, they only cared about how wrestling reflected on the network, similar to how UPN no longer wanted Smackdown a few years ago. There could have been 4.5 ratings every night and intricate, exciting storylines and they still would have dropped it. </p><p> </p><p> For the record, Nitro was averaging about a 2.5 (about 3.75 million viewers) in its final year anyway, which would still make it around the same as they were getting in 1995 and isn't as OMGAWFUL as people seem to believe. Don't believe what the internet likes you to think about WCW.</p>

[Fantabulous]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ewanite" data-cite="ewanite" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Those contracts were always causing the company to bleed money but Turner didn't care. The way he saw it, TV shows cost money to make and so it didn't need to make a profit as its own organisation. It just needed to make money for the network (As an aside, this is also why most of the 'big' moments in WCW occured on Nitro and not PPV. WCW was very much focused on TV and not PPV). AOL-Time Warner didn't care about the ratings, they only cared about how wrestling reflected on the network, similar to how UPN no longer wanted Smackdown a few years ago. There could have been 4.5 ratings every night and intricate, exciting storylines and they still would have dropped it. <p> </p><p> For the record, Nitro was averaging about a 2.5 (about 3.75 million viewers) in its final year anyway, which would still make it around the same as they were getting in 1995 and isn't as OMGAWFUL as people seem to believe. Don't believe what the internet likes you to think about WCW.</p></div></blockquote><p> Thanks. I needed a good laugh.</p>

[ewanite]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Thanks. I needed a good laugh.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ahh yes, facts and figures are too much for your IWC-riddled brain to comprehend. You had better get back to reading 411's comment section for your wrestling history lessons.</p>

[LoNdOn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ewanite" data-cite="ewanite" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Those contracts were always causing the company to bleed money but Turner didn't care. The way he saw it, TV shows cost money to make and so it didn't need to make a profit as its own organisation. It just needed to make money for the network (As an aside, this is also why most of the 'big' moments in WCW occured on Nitro and not PPV. WCW was very much focused on TV and not PPV). AOL-Time Warner didn't care about the ratings, they only cared about how wrestling reflected on the network, similar to how UPN no longer wanted Smackdown a few years ago. There could have been 4.5 ratings every night and intricate, exciting storylines and they still would have dropped it. <p> </p><p> For the record, Nitro was averaging about a 2.5 (about 3.75 million viewers) in its final year anyway, which would still make it around the same as they were getting in 1995 and isn't as OMGAWFUL as people seem to believe. Don't believe what the internet likes you to think about WCW.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is how I understand the situation as well.</p>

[Bigpapa42]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ewanite" data-cite="ewanite" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Those contracts were always causing the company to bleed money but Turner didn't care. The way he saw it, TV shows cost money to make and so it didn't need to make a profit as its own organisation. It just needed to make money for the network (As an aside, this is also why most of the 'big' moments in WCW occured on Nitro and not PPV. WCW was very much focused on TV and not PPV). AOL-Time Warner didn't care about the ratings, they only cared about how wrestling reflected on the network, similar to how UPN no longer wanted Smackdown a few years ago. There could have been 4.5 ratings every night and intricate, exciting storylines and they still would have dropped it. <p> </p><p> For the record, Nitro was averaging about a 2.5 (about 3.75 million viewers) in its final year anyway, which would still make it around the same as they were getting in 1995 and isn't as OMGAWFUL as people seem to believe. Don't believe what the internet likes you to think about WCW.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The ratings that Nitro had in its final year made it still one of the top shows on the network. But that's misleading by itself. Because of the drop in ratings, advertisers had been sold on Nitro doing much better ratings, which then had to be made-up to the advertisers. Given that advertising during wrestling was apparently already had to sell, that made the situation worse. So a program doing lesser ratings would have still been more profitable to the network in terms of ad revenues. </p><p> </p><p> It is debatable whether AOL-TW would have pulled Nitro off the air even if it was still doing strong ratings and making tons of money. However, those factors still came into play with trying to get WCW programming on another network. It wasn't WCW programming being pulled off of TNT that made the promotion worthless to Fusient, but that combined with the disinterest in other networks in carrying it. If Nitro was still doing 6s, that may have been different.</p>