The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[ampulator]

If anyone thinks Cena is the problem, they are wrong. He's a symptom of the bigger problem, not the problem himself. WWE needs to understand one thing-the fans that are attracted to wrestling are no longer kids. The rules of the game were changed when ECW, and more importantly, when the Attitude Era and WCW came along. On top of that, there are many otehr better "entertainment" option for kids other than the WWE.

[lazorbeak]

None of those guys you mentioned got the same push Cena has. Like I have said numerous times already . Cena went over JBL, Jericho, Angle, Triple H, Edge and more in the space of a year sometimes in overwhelming situations and the two times he lost on PPV where so much was against him that it would have been ridiculous to have him win. He actually came through an elimination chamber and when Edge cashed in he still managed to kick out of a spear. I mean how invincible did they want Cena to get?

 

Hahahahahaha, I'm sorry, Brock Lesnar didn't get the same push? He was actually pushed harder and faster. He kicked out of the leg drop and the Rock Bottom and the 5 star splash having been on the roster for six months.

 

And yes, the babyface main eventer won matches against big names during the period they were building him up as the top guy. The way every babyface ever overcomes the odds in WWE. Steve Austin in 1998 could've kicked out of a gunshot at 2.5. Seriously he was pinned once, in what was basically a handicap match against Undertaker and Kane, and it took both of them pinning him. Otherwise, he won the Rumble, retired HBK, beat up Mick Foley for two months, lost the belt for one day to Kane in ridiculous fashion after a boatload of interference (without being pinned), then won it back 24 hours later, then went over the Undertaker, all in the span of six months.

 

So again, the argument that Cena "never loses" is both wrong and not new.

[Nathers7]

Ok back to why I came into this thread, anyone watch those spoiler videos I posted on the last page? I don't think I've been so confused about what will happen at a PPV. Some people are even debating a ROH invasion, which is a bit unrealistic lol.

 

^ I didn't mean Brock and Goldberg. I meant Lashley, Umaga, CM Punk etc.

[juggaloninjalee]

None of those guys you mentioned got the same push Cena has. Like I have said numerous times already . Cena went over JBL, Jericho, Angle, Triple H, Edge and more in the space of a year sometimes in overwhelming situations and the two times he lost on PPV where so much was against him that it would have been ridiculous to have him win. He actually came through an elimination chamber and when Edge cashed in he still managed to kick out of a spear. I mean how invincible did they want Cena to get?

 

I don't think they want him to be invincible but they wanted him to give the impression he could overcome the odds even if just for a moment. How anti-climactic would it be if you just had him get beat right off the bat. Him kicking out gets the crowd to go crazy! Or pop as us fans say.

 

Besides Cena should look strong. It will only make other wrestlers look better when they do beat him. Look at Andre the Giant.

[ampulator]

Hahahahahaha, I'm sorry, Brock Lesnar didn't get the same push? He was actually pushed harder and faster. He kicked out of the leg drop and the Rock Bottom and the 5 star splash having been on the roster for six months.

 

And yes, the babyface main eventer won matches against big names during the period they were building him up as the top guy. The way every babyface ever overcomes the odds in WWE. Steve Austin in 1998 could've kicked out of a gunshot at 2.5. Seriously he was pinned once, in what was basically a handicap match against Undertaker and Kane, and it took both of them pinning him. Otherwise, he won the Rumble, retired HBK, beat up Mick Foley for two months, lost the belt for one day to Kane in ridiculous fashion after a boatload of interference (without being pinned), then won it back 24 hours later, then went over the Undertaker, all in the span of six months.

 

So again, the argument that Cena "never loses" is both wrong and not new.

It's not the "never loses" is the problem, it's the WWE makes the opponents against him look weak. It's rarely an equal match. It's always "Cena looks dominant and wins" rather than "Cena has a back-and-forth match, but comes out on top" match.

[1234]

Ok back to why I came into this thread, anyone watch those spoiler videos I posted on the last page? I don't think I've been so confused about what will happen at a PPV. Some people are even debating a ROH invasion, which is a bit unrealistic lol.

 

^ I didn't mean Brock and Goldberg. I meant Lashley, Umaga, CM Punk etc.

 

*this is just fantasy booking I don't see it really happening*

 

A mini ROH faction could work. Have Daniel Bryan (and/or Evan Bourne/Tyler Black/Kings Of Wrestling (if they sign)) help Punk win the title. Punk of course takes off with the title for a bit not appearing on Raw, while the ROH guys (without totally plugging ROH, so no full mention like Punk did) go on a tirade saying they came from a promotion where true wrestling is valued, and titles actually mean something, so they helped Punk to take the title to make the fans realise how much the title would be missed once it's gone.

 

While this is going on they also say that now they have the spotlight they will show everyone what real wrestling is and fight with honour. However they don't fight with honour and constantly cheat to win (maybe have one person not know about the cheating and eventually turn face when they find out what's going on).

 

Eventually Punk returns, at which point their would be hundreds of possibilities where to take the story. (E.g Punk fitting one of the men his title or Punk turning face and saying this isn't what he wanted)

 

Fantasy booking is fun

[Nathers7]

*this is just fantasy booking I don't see it really happening*

 

A mini ROH faction could work. Have Daniel Bryan (and/or Evan Bourne/Tyler Black/Kings Of Wrestling (if they sign)) help Punk win the title. Punk of course takes off with the title for a bit not appearing on Raw, while the ROH guys (without totally plugging ROH, so no full mention like Punk did) go on a tirade saying they came from a promotion where true wrestling is valued, and titles actually mean something, so they helped Punk to take the title to make the fans realise how much the title would be missed once it's gone.

 

While this is going on they also say that now they have the spotlight they will show everyone what real wrestling is and fight with honour. However they don't fight with honour and constantly cheat to win (maybe have one person not know about the cheating and eventually turn face when they find out what's going on).

 

Eventually Punk returns, at which point their would be hundreds of possibilities where to take the story. (E.g Punk fitting one of the men his title or Punk turning face and saying this isn't what he wanted)

 

Fantasy booking is fun

 

I would mark if that happened , hopefully they don't mess this up, as it really is unique where WWE is concerned anyway.

[shawn michaels]

I would mark if that happened , hopefully they don't mess this up, as it really is unique where WWE is concerned anyway.

 

I've been catchin up and it's good to see i'm not alone on the Cena Question. Anyway, s it true that the E is planning on pulling the plug on the PG stuff now that linda lost the election?

[The Final Countdown]

I've been catchin up and it's good to see i'm not alone on the Cena Question. Anyway, s it true that the E is planning on pulling the plug on the PG stuff now that linda lost the election?

Highly unlikely, because they'd risk losing some of their most lucrative sponsors.

[eayragt]

If anyone thinks Cena is the problem, they are wrong. He's a symptom of the bigger problem, not the problem himself. WWE needs to understand one thing-the fans that are attracted to wrestling are no longer kids. The rules of the game were changed when ECW, and more importantly, when the Attitude Era and WCW came along. On top of that, there are many otehr better "entertainment" option for kids other than the WWE.

 

Sorry, the Internet fans are not the most important fan base. First is the kids. Next are the teenage / young adult males who will hold a ppv party and have little idea about other wrestling promotions. Then there's young fathers, to buy the ppv to watch with the kids. Then finally its us, who if WWE are lucky will pay for a ppv rather than find a stream to watch. And if there're really might buy a dvd once a year.

[Linsolv]

I think that both sides of the Cena argument have a point.

 

He's not over with every single Little Jimmy because he can talk or because of his in-ring work or because of his dedication or because he signs autographs. Those things help, but the fact is that he's over because of his push. That's obvious to anyone. Now, the debate is "can anyone get that push and see Cena's success?" Obviously not. Not to that extent.

 

Do I think that CM Punk could be Cena if he were pushed? Maybe. But do I think that... say, The Great Khali could be Cena if only he were pushed? Obviously not. Perish the thought!

 

Cena definitely has every element of what is needed to succeed in some measure, but I can't say that he's the best in the world only because he gets the biggest pop. The crowd will pop for who they want to... to an extent. But beyond that, they'll pop for who they're told to pop for.

 

Which is why R-Truth went from cheers to boos in one month, if you need an example.

 

The fact is, we all know its fake but part of enjoying wrestling, at least to me, is putting that in the back of your mind for a while.

[juggaloninjalee]

Sorry, the Internet fans are not the most important fan base. First is the kids. Next are the teenage / young adult males who will hold a ppv party and have little idea about other wrestling promotions. Then there's young fathers, to buy the ppv to watch with the kids. Then finally its us, who if WWE are lucky will pay for a ppv rather than find a stream to watch. And if there're really might buy a dvd once a year.

 

I agree with some of this. I think you are right in thinking most internet fans will find a stream of it online.

 

The sole reason we are the last priority though is because we are the smallest portion of those. If we did represent the masses we would be more important.

[ZMAN]

You honestly truly can't believe that John Cena and Randy Orton are no better at what they do than anyone else right? John Cena has been the biggest merchandise mover for the last seven years. If he wasn't that good and there was nothing special about him people wouldn't care about him. How many people have they tried to push into the main event that have never gotten the reaction or made them money like Cena?

 

Throw some colourful clothes on Santino, feed him some corny lines, give him super human strength, and you got John Cena, hell Santino could probably do it better. Yes, I honestly believe that along with, like, half of WWE's fan base. (do you not hear the arenas?) They don't boo him because he's an effective heel, they boo him because they see through his b.s. I don't have a problem with Cena (or Orton), but I still think (what, 6 years later now?) that he's average and easily replaceable. I imagine he's valuable for Vince to have around since the guy seems pretty loyal and clean, but no he's not unique. I wouldn't put him on the same level as Austin, Hogan, Taker, Hart, Michaels, Rock etc. Vince wants him to be, but it just ain't happenin' right now. And that's what sucks about the whole Cena character, is that he's not on any of those guys level as far as entertaining goes, and at the same time he isn't at the level of Benoit/Eddy/Jericho/Punk(etc) as far as wrestling skill goes. It really puts him in this weird spot where he's getting booed by half the fans for being invincible.

 

I really wish I could be a Cena fan. The gimmick itself seems legit and his work in the ring is passable, but the way it's all presented is just a load of b.s.. I really can't blame Punk for leaving. The guy seems like he wants to be the best in the world, and is giving it everything that he can. It's gotta be tough sitting back and watching John cruise into WM on autopilot, and have Rock just jump in to the main event.

 

But yeah, merchandise and ticketz right.

 

If you want Danielson and Low Ki to go over Orton and Cena then watch ROH

I don't think Danielson or Low Ki have what it takes to make it to the top in WWE. Their looks are way off, and there's nothing all that unique to them outside of their wrestling style. No problems there.

 

As for CM Punk....what would you guys consider a proper treatment to him?? 13 world championships??

Sounds good to me. The guy can work the mic, wrestle, handle any match type thrown at him, and play a heel to perfection. His look and gimmick are unique(I imagine it would reach out well to the non-Cena fans), so why the hell not? You probably expect me to be like "oh lolol i didnt mean 13 titlez!" but when we've had HHH, HBK, Flair and Edge hold that many in the past, I don't see any reason why Punk should not. I'm not saying he's better than those four, but I definitely think he has the potential to be just as good as them.

 

So let me ask you name me these guys that could be bigger than John Cena. Are they currently employed by the WWE? Are they in ROH? TNA please tell me these guys that could gain the mass appeal, popularity and huge business profits for the company that John Cena has garnered for them in the past six years.

 

That's a stupid question, because I can't just go through a big list of names and superpush them, give them kewl t-shirts to wear, and feed them corny ass promo's for 18 months. Sry, it really is just a stupid question to ask, not your fault though because I've seen the same question pop up as a way of sticking it to someone. There's no point in me trying to convince you that Evan Bourne could fill John's shoes. I can't prove it because I don't have a TV show that millions of people watch. I can only hope that one day Vince and Paul prove it. I mean, Paul seems like he's making an effort to by making Sin Cara his project. It's not a bad project, it's just a big jump trying to push someone from lucha libre so quickly. I have faith in Paul and think he'll eventually get it right though.

 

*Forgot all about MVP. There's your Cena replacement. Let's get some of the nu style R-Truth in there as well. Some of the best faces start off as heels.

[djthefunkchris]

There are plenty of people I think could have gotten over alot better then they did, if they were given alot of the opportunities as some (Thinking more Drew then John here though). Example's off the top of my head are people like MVP and Murdock. I thought MVP was great, and I thought Murdock had alot more to offer.

 

DO I think that anyone could reach the level of success of John Cena? No. I do think timing is an advantage though. I feel that the feuds themselves are very important as well, and the prior history of each individual.

 

I don't think that the gimmick is as much credit as it is the person pulling as much of their own personality into the gimmick as possible. Cena is Superman, but in all reality.... The guy is unquestionably one of the hardest, if not the hardest working man in wrestling right now. He goes non-stop, and I'm not talking about in the ring. Appearances, shows, movies, and still keeps up with the happenings in the ring. IF the question was which wrestler acts more like Superman then any other, I don't think Cena's name wouldn't come out of quite a few mouths... Even the "Legends" themselves acknowledge Cena. One thing he is NOT, and that's lazy.

 

Just thought that was an interesting side note to add to this, although it was already pointed out a few times before (and where I made the connection). To listen to people that don't even like Cena and are bored with his gimmick (I'm bored with his gimmick, been wanting a Heel Cena for years now), talk about what he does is like hearing someone talk about what a superman would do in that same position.

 

I do think Punk could be the biggest thing in Wrestling if they let him have the ball and run with it....Punk vs. the Establishment, etc.

[Fantabulous]

It's not the "never loses" is the problem, it's the WWE makes the opponents against him look weak. It's rarely an equal match. It's always "Cena looks dominant and wins" rather than "Cena has a back-and-forth match, but comes out on top" match.

 

This. Remember Summerslam last year, when it was down to Cena against Barrett and someone else on Nexus? Cena took a DDT on the concrete and 75-seconds later had dispatched both of them with ease? Or the I-Quit match with Miz that was 20:00 of Miz and Riley beating Cena up and trying to make him quit and about thirty seconds of a Cena comeback that, naturally, saw him tap Miz out with barely any effort?

 

I don't mind WWE having a Superman Babyface because it plays to the kids. That's fine. But they don't have to make the heels look so ineffective that they don't come across as any kind of threat. That doesn't make for good business in the long-run because even kids eventually get tired of their hero coming out on top with barely a struggle. Not to mention the parents who have to, you know, actually pay for it.

 

It also wouldn't hurt if Cena could at least act like it's a big deal when he loses, especially on the biggest show of the year. Yeah, Miz beat him at Wrestlemania, and it should have been a big deal, but not when Cena is out on Raw the next night with the same gormless smile on his face and acting in the same gormless manner he always does.

[justtxyank]

Vince McMahon has long held to the believe that he could super push anyone into stardom, that his company's success is all about his own creativity in creating characters and has never had anything to do with the performers.

 

Wrestling history, and heck, television and movie history, tells us differently. It's not about the push. It's not about the work rate. It's not about the look. It's about something that you can't describe. Movies, tv shows and professional wrestling characters have always survived or failed based on the actor's ability to be that part, for the audience to believe they are that part, and the actor to make them care about that part.

 

You can say it's the push in wrestling or the time on camera in film/tv, but you'd be wrong. Fans react to workers that draw them with or without the push. Bit players in sitcoms become stars because fans keep wanting them to get more time.

 

You can say it's the look but you'd be wrong. Dusty Rhodes was fat and uninspiring looking. Flair was no better looking than Tommy Angel or Ricky Morton. George on Seinfeld was a fat dork. Will Farrell is an ugly doofus.

 

You can say it's the script but you'd be wrong. Goldberg never had to say a work. Sting went a year without speaking. Good actors can overcome a corny script and make you care.

 

You see, it's always been about all of those things and none of those things at the same time. The right look, the right push, the right script...and...flop.

 

Could ANYONE have been John Cena? No. Just like not ANYONE could have been Hulk Hogan.

[BHK1978]

I don't mind WWE having a Superman Babyface because it plays to the kids. That's fine. But they don't have to make the heels look so ineffective that they don't come across as any kind of threat. That doesn't make for good business in the long-run because even kids eventually get tired of their hero coming out on top with barely a struggle. Not to mention the parents who have to, you know, actually pay for it.

 

Very true, this was the main reason why went from being a huge fan of Hogan when I first started to watch wrestling to hating Hogan with a passion only three years later. Because I got sick of his stupid comeback during every match. Even as a kid I got tired of it.

 

In fact I was the only one that was happy when Andre beat Hogan in the twin referee match. All my friends were mad that Andre won but not me because by that time I was sick of Hogan.

[Hive]

Also, the bar comments are about HBK's real life lack of toughness, not how he was portrayed one time on a TV show.

 

Thank you, Captain Obvious. You do realize that the comment about HBK getting his behind kicked in bar fights was a joke, right?

[Jaysin]

Thank you, Captain Obvious. You do realize that the comment about HBK getting his behind kicked in bar fights was a joke, right?

 

PRETTY sure he's referring to shawn michaels 82 who was talking about Michaels super kicking all of a stable and all the security guards saying he wouldn't get beat up in a bar...

 

This post...

[juggaloninjalee]

Vince McMahon has long held to the believe that he could super push anyone into stardom, that his company's success is all about his own creativity in creating characters and has never had anything to do with the performers.

 

Wrestling history, and heck, television and movie history, tells us differently. It's not about the push. It's not about the work rate. It's not about the look. It's about something that you can't describe. Movies, tv shows and professional wrestling characters have always survived or failed based on the actor's ability to be that part, for the audience to believe they are that part, and the actor to make them care about that part.

 

You can say it's the push in wrestling or the time on camera in film/tv, but you'd be wrong. Fans react to workers that draw them with or without the push. Bit players in sitcoms become stars because fans keep wanting them to get more time.

 

You can say it's the look but you'd be wrong. Dusty Rhodes was fat and uninspiring looking. Flair was no better looking than Tommy Angel or Ricky Morton. George on Seinfeld was a fat dork. Will Farrell is an ugly doofus.

 

You can say it's the script but you'd be wrong. Goldberg never had to say a work. Sting went a year without speaking. Good actors can overcome a corny script and make you care.

 

You see, it's always been about all of those things and none of those things at the same time. The right look, the right push, the right script...and...flop.

 

Could ANYONE have been John Cena? No. Just like not ANYONE could have been Hulk Hogan.

 

This I think is what the debate is about. It does take something special to reach the heights John Cena has. Cena haters will say what they want but the truth is Cena has reached where he is because of his talent. Yes he has talent. Maybe it isn't his work rate but you can't deny he has talent.

 

Very true, this was the main reason why went from being a huge fan of Hogan when I first started to watch wrestling to hating Hogan with a passion only three years later. Because I got sick of his stupid comeback during every match. Even as a kid I got tired of it.

 

In fact I was the only one that was happy when Andre beat Hogan in the twin referee match. All my friends were mad that Andre won but not me because by that time I was sick of Hogan.

 

Andre wasn't a better worker than Hogan at this time though. Andre was getting old and could barely move around the ring. I was a huge Hogan fan in the early 90s but I was 5 in 1990. Cena doesn't bother me because I do feel like he is a slight rehash of Hogan in the sense of get beat down most of the match and wait for it... COMEBACK!

 

At this point I think it's best we all agree to disagree about Cena having talent. I think people have made great points in the last few pages and nobody seems to be changing their opinions.

[ampulator]

This. Remember Summerslam last year, when it was down to Cena against Barrett and someone else on Nexus? Cena took a DDT on the concrete and 75-seconds later had dispatched both of them with ease? Or the I-Quit match with Miz that was 20:00 of Miz and Riley beating Cena up and trying to make him quit and about thirty seconds of a Cena comeback that, naturally, saw him tap Miz out with barely any effort?

 

I don't mind WWE having a Superman Babyface because it plays to the kids. That's fine. But they don't have to make the heels look so ineffective that they don't come across as any kind of threat. That doesn't make for good business in the long-run because even kids eventually get tired of their hero coming out on top with barely a struggle. Not to mention the parents who have to, you know, actually pay for it.

 

It also wouldn't hurt if Cena could at least act like it's a big deal when he loses, especially on the biggest show of the year. Yeah, Miz beat him at Wrestlemania, and it should have been a big deal, but not when Cena is out on Raw the next night with the same gormless smile on his face and acting in the same gormless manner he always does.

It's not so much "superman" I care about... it's that, when it comes PPV matches, either the booking of Cena's matches don't deliver, or he doesn't deliver. Before I say anthing about the performer, there's too many problems with the booking.

 

If all heels will lose against him, and I'm prett sure they will lose and look weak, why bother buying the PPV at all? I know what's going to happen already. And more importantly, I know how it's going happen... Cena crushes. Every. Single. Time. It's rarely an out-of-nowhere victory. If this was TV matches, that's one thing, but PPV matches need to be interesting. If the matches don't compel me, why buy the PPV?

 

In fact, if you look at their PPV buys, they aren't doing so well, the only major exception being Wrestlemania (because, well, it's WRESTLEMANIA).

 

This I think is what the debate is about. It does take something special to reach the heights John Cena has. Cena haters will say what they want but the truth is Cena has reached where he is because of his talent. Yes he has talent. Maybe it isn't his work rate but you can't deny he has talent.

 

 

 

Andre wasn't a better worker than Hogan at this time though. Andre was getting old and could barely move around the ring. I was a huge Hogan fan in the early 90s but I was 5 in 1990. Cena doesn't bother me because I do feel like he is a slight rehash of Hogan in the sense of get beat down most of the match and wait for it... COMEBACK!

 

At this point I think it's best we all agree to disagree about Cena having talent. I think people have made great points in the last few pages and nobody seems to be changing their opinions.

 

You got it backwards. He has workrate, he doesn't have a lot natural talent. I don't deny Cena's workrate at all. He works hard. What I do deny is his talent.

 

But more on Andre, I think when it came to knowing the basics and what-not to do a match, he still had it, but his physical being was deteriorated so badly, that even WWE's style back in the day couldn't really help him that much. You need to see his match against King Kong Bundy. He wasn't that immobile at that point, and the match was one of the better big-man matches I've seen.

 

And the thing is, Hogan is a lot better performer back in the day. He could sell. He had better psychology. Cena's selling and psychology isn't anywhere near Hogan's at Hogan's heyday in the WWF.

[shawn michaels]

Throw some colourful clothes on Santino, feed him some corny lines, give him super human strength, and you got John Cena, hell Santino could probably do it better. Yes, I honestly believe that along with, like, half of WWE's fan base. (do you not hear the arenas?) They don't boo him because he's an effective heel, they boo him because they see through his b.s. I don't have a problem with Cena (or Orton), but I still think (what, 6 years later now?) that he's average and easily replaceable. I imagine he's valuable for Vince to have around since the guy seems pretty loyal and clean, but no he's not unique. I wouldn't put him on the same level as Austin, Hogan, Taker, Hart, Michaels, Rock etc. Vince wants him to be, but it just ain't happenin' right now. And that's what sucks about the whole Cena character, is that he's not on any of those guys level as far as entertaining goes, and at the same time he isn't at the level of Benoit/Eddy/Jericho/Punk(etc) as far as wrestling skill goes. It really puts him in this weird spot where he's getting booed by half the fans for being invincible.

 

I really wish I could be a Cena fan. The gimmick itself seems legit and his work in the ring is passable, but the way it's all presented is just a load of b.s.. I really can't blame Punk for leaving. The guy seems like he wants to be the best in the world, and is giving it everything that he can. It's gotta be tough sitting back and watching John cruise into WM on autopilot, and have Rock just jump in to the main event.

 

But yeah, merchandise and ticketz right.

 

 

I don't think Danielson or Low Ki have what it takes to make it to the top in WWE. Their looks are way off, and there's nothing all that unique to them outside of their wrestling style. No problems there.

 

 

Sounds good to me. The guy can work the mic, wrestle, handle any match type thrown at him, and play a heel to perfection. His look and gimmick are unique(I imagine it would reach out well to the non-Cena fans), so why the hell not? You probably expect me to be like "oh lolol i didnt mean 13 titlez!" but when we've had HHH, HBK, Flair and Edge hold that many in the past, I don't see any reason why Punk should not. I'm not saying he's better than those four, but I definitely think he has the potential to be just as good as them.

 

 

 

That's a stupid question, because I can't just go through a big list of names and superpush them, give them kewl t-shirts to wear, and feed them corny ass promo's for 18 months. Sry, it really is just a stupid question to ask, not your fault though because I've seen the same question pop up as a way of sticking it to someone. There's no point in me trying to convince you that Evan Bourne could fill John's shoes. I can't prove it because I don't have a TV show that millions of people watch. I can only hope that one day Vince and Paul prove it. I mean, Paul seems like he's making an effort to by making Sin Cara his project. It's not a bad project, it's just a big jump trying to push someone from lucha libre so quickly. I have faith in Paul and think he'll eventually get it right though.

 

*Forgot all about MVP. There's your Cena replacement. Let's get some of the nu style R-Truth in there as well. Some of the best faces start off as heels.

 

Amen. WHere were some of you guys last night when i had to deal alone with the super cena fans?

[i effin rule]

Amen. WHere were some of you guys last night when i had to deal alone with the super cena fans?

 

As a simple watcher of this debate I have to say that your whole "anyone who disagrees with me is a super Cena fan" is getting pretty annoying. You are essentially dismissing their opinions as fanboy love when your opinions, by that reasoning, could be dismissed as Cena-Hate.

[Jaysin]

None of us that I have seen are even fans of his. Having respect for someone's work ethic doesn't mean you like them.

 

We're defending him because you're making him out to be this massive monster of a thing that's so wrong for the wrestling world. Sure, he's got a tired act, but kids still love him and that's who WWE is aimed at.

[Teh_Showtime]

saying Santino can draw like Cena is not worth arguing. Keeping in.mind.that I have a STRONG indifference to Cena, but to degrade him.like that is crazy