The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[UkWrestleFan]

I was thinking more along the lines of a 'new look' nWo, led by Nash. Maybe they will tie it in with the whole thing about ending the brand split. Some of the guys who are worried about their spots near the top (Miz, Truth) hook up with Nash and it all goes from there.

 

Who knows, though. Who knows.

[Hive]

But too few WWE fans know who Nash, Hall or Waltman are these days. Back then, they were new and fresh and well-known. Now they are... none of that.

[djthefunkchris]

But too few WWE fans know who Nash, Hall or Waltman are these days. Back then, they were new and fresh and well-known. Now they are... none of that.

 

They don't have to know though... It can be shown in flashback segments, with video's on the titantron.

 

It's like anyone else; Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, or even the likes of Hogan... Anyone actually. They don't have to know them, because they can be informed.

 

Really only talking about the fans too young to know them though... Anyone that has watched wrestling over the years, would know... No matter if casual fans or not. The very young one's wouldn't know unless they were hardcore fans (looked it up). The rest would know.

 

As I said though, for the sake of debate we can pretend like none of them know. All WWE has to do is bring them out and explain who they are at the same time. A couple of video promo's to get everyone up to speed, just as if it was a storyline video getting people up to speed, and people would understand who they were.

 

The amazing thing to me is that people think they might do something like this. I don't... But I can't help believing if they did, somehow they will make it work.

[MrOnu]

Well Legend,

The way I could see this going down, that Trips and Punk beat the ever living crap out of each other, only to have a "Dirty Finish" where Nash (or someone else) interferes, and then both Punk and Trips team up and possibly join up with John Cena (which I believe he WONT win the title at N.O.C.) further solidifying the mystery of who is the Shadowy "Corporation" and who is pulling the strings...

 

I STILL think its Vince. I mean he would have the most to gain and he will make all of his "enemies" suffer. He will make Punk suffer for taking the title in the first place, Cena for interfering with Vince and John Laurenitis and preventing him from screwing him over, and Triple H. I know y'all find this weird, but I wouldn't be surprised that Vince harbors a "secret hatred" for Trips, relieving him and taking over his job...Because Vince said it before, Vince (in his mind) is bigger than GOD!

 

 

I might be wrong......but I DOUBT IT.

 

 

GHOST

 

That's what I was thinking last weeek during my long walks back home. Even before this week RAW, I thought CM Punk vs HHH at Wrestlemania seemed too far down the road, but HHH vs Vince for the control of the company looks more probable. I don't believe John Laurianitis is acting on his own, he's just a puppet probably of Vince. Just with that, they can run the story for a good time. Add in Stephanie at some point to add some length, especially when it is revealed that Vince is behind all this. Build the match at WM around who's side Steph is going to take, hell even make it seems she has choosen her dad early in 2012 only to turn on him at Wrestlemania. HHH wins, Stephanie is with him, happy couple for the reminder of 2012.

 

That was all in my thinking about WM 2012 which even includes a feel good story about Daniel Bryan winning the World Title against all odds. I mean, if they are goint to put the strap on him, why not making him the ultimate underdog who finally triumph on the big stage ?

[Teh_Showtime]

am I the only one who wondered where ADR was? Not even a mention of him.

[sanityisforbidden]

Alberto Del Rio had some visa issues. He was renewing his visa and I guess he didn't make it back in time. I expect to see him on Smackdown tonight if alls good.

[Nathers7]

am I the only one who wondered where ADR was? Not even a mention of him.

 

I was also confused by this, not even a backstage segment for the WWE champion .

[Zeel1]

Was Ricardo trying to do an "All Hail KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING BOOKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER" thing just now?

[Zeel1]

Finally, some continuity nods.

[Zeel1]

Huh, that didn't last as long as I thought it would...

[Zeel1]

Shame Del Rio didn't make it, but I like this replacement match!

[Zeel1]

Woah, Sin Cara with a little post-match attack. Didn't see that coming. Maybe they ARE going to reveal him as a fake...

[Zeel1]

The "longest running" thing is a little misleading. Gunsmoke went on for twenty years, which is a milestone Raw hasn't quite gotten to yet, and SmackDown! is only a little over halfway there to reaching that. It has more episodes because it's pretty much the only show that has a new episode every damned week of every damned year.

 

...Oh, actually, after checking, it seems Gunsmoke almost did that too - for the first several seasons, they only had about two months off before the next one started... I guess that would explain why it has so many more episodes than the original Law and Order, despite having as many seasons.

 

Still, dunno why they don't just say they have more episodes than any other show, it's not like that's not impressive itself.

[Zeel1]

Wow, lot of changes to the card. I get why they changed Cara/Del Rio, but why change Punk/Khali?

[Zeel1]

Here's a milestone for you - SmackDown! actually has some overrun this week!

 

Usually, it just cuts out really abruptly at 9:00. (By my time.)

[Teh_Showtime]

This is why we NEED a brand split. The likes of Cody Rhodes weren't on TV this week and it'll get worse when ADR comes back.

 

On a positive note, Christian faking out Orton was funny with a good story

[Carmichael]

orton christian has to be up for feud of the year? the matches just get better and better

[Teh_Showtime]

depends on how often the WWE title (and Cena by default) interfere with CM Punk's storyline

[OldStingberg]

What the hell is the WWE doing? Seriously. It's not just that a lot of what's currently going on is bad, it's that it makes no sense.

 

The WWE was gifted a golden opportunity by Punk himself to build him into a superstar. Maybe not a pantheon level superstar, but a legitimate main event superstar that could draw back a number of those lapsed Attitude-era fans. All they had to do was continue with the basic premise of Punk speaking truth to power, give him a little freedom, and then get the hell out of his way. Punk is probably the best overall worker in the WWE right now in terms of combining ability in the ring with skills on the mic.

 

Punk was red-hot going into and coming out of MitB. But look what they've done to him since then. The WWE had arguably the single most intriguing story in years in Punk leaving with the belt, but instead of playing that out, they rushed him back after only a week off in a desperate attempt to get SummerSlam money.

 

Then at SummerSlam, and nearly every week since then, they've got Kevin Nash getting the better of him. This isn't bad in theory, but Kevin Nash? Not only does he bring nothing to the table, but he's not even generating any heat because half the crowd is too busy popping for him because of what he did in the 90's. The WWE really didn't have a big muscle-bound dude that could play a hired assassin with the benefit of actually being able to physically wrestle in a match for Punk to win?

 

And now, his speaking truth to power schtick doesn't work anymore, at all, because the power, in this case Triple H, is very popular. And it especially doesn't work when the power is constantly popping the crowd by playing to them and commanding the moral high ground. Where the hell are they going with this? What outcome at NoC does Punk any good?

 

They had this great opportunity with him, given to them by him, and they've completely messed it up. Not only have they undercut Punk, but they've done it while also delivering a terrible story no one is really interested in.

 

I'd love to go off on what they're doing with Michael Cole, Daniel Bryan, and more, but I've already ranted enough.

[djthefunkchris]

The "longest running" thing is a little misleading. Gunsmoke went on for twenty years, which is a milestone Raw hasn't quite gotten to yet, and SmackDown! is only a little over halfway there to reaching that. It has more episodes because it's pretty much the only show that has a new episode every damned week of every damned year.

 

...Oh, actually, after checking, it seems Gunsmoke almost did that too - for the first several seasons, they only had about two months off before the next one started... I guess that would explain why it has so many more episodes than the original Law and Order, despite having as many seasons.

 

Still, dunno why they don't just say they have more episodes than any other show, it's not like that's not impressive itself.

 

Actually, they don't just say "The longest running..." They say "Monday Night Raw is the longest running, weekly, episodic television program in cable TV history." Which is accurate. Over double the episodes of Gunsmoke, unless you count their radio show as well. Probably still more episodes, considering Raw has over 950. Also, Gunsmoke wasn't "Cable TV".

[Zeel1]

Actually, they don't just say "The longest running..." They say "Monday Night Raw is the longest running, weekly, episodic television program in cable TV history." Which is accurate. Over double the episodes of Gunsmoke, unless you count their radio show as well. Probably still more episodes, considering Raw has over 950. Also, Gunsmoke wasn't "Cable TV".

 

What, was Gunsmoke not episodic? Really know nothing about the show, to be honest. But if it's not even matching the criteria, why do they keep mentioning it?

[djthefunkchris]

What the hell is the WWE doing? Seriously. It's not just that a lot of what's currently going on is bad, it's that it makes no sense.

 

The WWE was gifted a golden opportunity by Punk himself to build him into a superstar. Maybe not a pantheon level superstar, but a legitimate main event superstar that could draw back a number of those lapsed Attitude-era fans. All they had to do was continue with the basic premise of Punk speaking truth to power, give him a little freedom, and then get the hell out of his way. Punk is probably the best overall worker in the WWE right now in terms of combining ability in the ring with skills on the mic.

 

Punk was red-hot going into and coming out of MitB. But look what they've done to him since then. The WWE had arguably the single most intriguing story in years in Punk leaving with the belt, but instead of playing that out, they rushed him back after only a week off in a desperate attempt to get SummerSlam money.

 

Then at SummerSlam, and nearly every week since then, they've got Kevin Nash getting the better of him. This isn't bad in theory, but Kevin Nash? Not only does he bring nothing to the table, but he's not even generating any heat because half the crowd is too busy popping for him because of what he did in the 90's. The WWE really didn't have a big muscle-bound dude that could play a hired assassin with the benefit of actually being able to physically wrestle in a match for Punk to win?

 

And now, his speaking truth to power schtick doesn't work anymore, at all, because the power, in this case Triple H, is very popular. And it especially doesn't work when the power is constantly popping the crowd by playing to them and commanding the moral high ground. Where the hell are they going with this? What outcome at NoC does Punk any good?

 

They had this great opportunity with him, given to them by him, and they've completely messed it up. Not only have they undercut Punk, but they've done it while also delivering a terrible story no one is really interested in.

 

Looks to me like they understand that. Someone mentioned a while ago that it looks like it's going to end up Punk and HHH vs... The establishment or something of that kind. I didn't think so at first, but I did think they would eventually be on the same side. Now however, after seeing the reaction of HHH after Nash threw him down, it looks like something might be coming of that... The post that talked about Vince being behind all this, and everyone will figure out later that he's played them all against each other.

 

Pluss, Punk got more pop's then HHH, outside of when HHH was talking about the crowd loving the WWE.

 

I see everything dealing with Punk as being the main storyline, and everything else is just "fill-in's" right now. I'm not sure how other's aren't. Orton and Christian is "cool", but Punk is just on fire right now, and when he turned HHH's own theory around "You think I hate the WWE, nothing could be farther from the truth... I LOVE the WWE!", that went over very well.

 

The crowd reaction to Nash throwing HHH down (very hard I might add, as if he was a rag doll), was more then I expected. Nash was 5 times better in that segment then even I thought he could be.... and I didn't think he would be half as bad as most around here.

[OldStingberg]

Looks to me like they understand that. Someone mentioned a while ago that it looks like it's going to end up Punk and HHH vs... The establishment or something of that kind. I didn't think so at first, but I did think they would eventually be on the same side. Now however, after seeing the reaction of HHH after Nash threw him down, it looks like something might be coming of that... The post that talked about Vince being behind all this, and everyone will figure out later that he's played them all against each other.

 

Pluss, Punk got more pop's then HHH, outside of when HHH was talking about the crowd loving the WWE.

 

I see everything dealing with Punk as being the main storyline, and everything else is just "fill-in's" right now. I'm not sure how other's aren't. Orton and Christian is "cool", but Punk is just on fire right now, and when he turned HHH's own theory around "You think I hate the WWE, nothing could be farther from the truth... I LOVE the WWE!", that went over very well.

 

The crowd reaction to Nash throwing HHH down (very hard I might add, as if he was a rag doll), was more then I expected. Nash was 5 times better in that segment then even I thought he could be.... and I didn't think he would be half as bad as most around here.

 

I did get the feeling that they're taking it to HHH & Punk vs. whomever, but if that's the case, they're sure being clumsy about it. What's Triple H gonna say? "Well, this is personal, you've been constantly insulting me and my wife, but um, I guess we'll work together because I got pushed". I'm guessing they've got another screwy finish planned for Punk at NoC, but I don't see how they get from "you repeatedly insulted my wife" to "I guess we're working together" very well.

 

And that sort of clumsy transition in this story is probably the best-case scenario for the Punk storyline right now.

 

I disagree about Punk getting bigger pops than HHH tonight. I thought HHH clearly came out of that face-off better and easily got the biggest pops of the segment. But the fact that it's even a discussion is a problem. Triple H is already a big star. Punk is trying to get there, and Trips sure didn't help him tonight.

[djthefunkchris]

I did get the feeling that they're taking it to HHH & Punk vs. whomever, but if that's the case, they're sure being clumsy about it. What's Triple H gonna say? "Well, this is personal, you've been constantly insulting me and my wife, but um, I guess we'll work together because I got pushed". I'm guessing they've got another screwy finish planned for Punk at NoC, but I don't see how they get from "you repeatedly insulted my wife" to "I guess we're working together" very well.

 

And that sort of clumsy transition in this story is probably the best-case scenario for the Punk storyline right now.

 

I disagree about Punk getting bigger pops than HHH tonight. I thought HHH clearly came out of that face-off better and easily got the biggest pops of the segment. But the fact that it's even a discussion is a problem. Triple H is already a big star. Punk is trying to get there, and Trips sure didn't help him tonight.

 

I don't think he was supposed to help him... Now mind you I'm giving a big benefit of the doubt here, only because of prior things lately turning out closer to the way I thought would be good, rather then the other way as they have done in the past (Nexus, etc.). So I'm not going to say my thoughts are obvious, as I'm being probably the most objectional person about it right now.

 

My thoughts go like this: Punk told HHH he was testing him with the personal attacks. Said it was a test, pluss fun at the same time. He proved to Punk that Punk was right by wanting to physically get involved, seeing as he is supposed to be above that kind of thing, as the COO. Now, I'm taking into consideration the things Punk was saying to Nash as well, from an earlier show: I suspected you didn't know what was good for bussiness, and you've proved that you don't know what's good for bussiness.

 

Supposedly HHH is still saying he's innocent of calling in Nash. HHH knows that Punk does think he did it anyways, and a reason why he's taken as much as he has, at least the if you read in between the lines, that's how I would look at it.

 

I'm very interested in NOC, because I'm not thinking that Punk is the one that's going to get screwed on that show... I'm thinking it's going to be Cena. This is just a guess, but if that happens, then the whole HHH vs Punk thing is just Vince working two people that he now views as enemies against each other, and probably don't care which one win's at this point.... or, he sends in guns to take them both out.

 

My big money is on Cena being the one getting screwed at NOC though.

[Candyman]

The "longest running" thing is a little misleading. Gunsmoke went on for twenty years, which is a milestone Raw hasn't quite gotten to yet, and SmackDown! is only a little over halfway there to reaching that. It has more episodes because it's pretty much the only show that has a new episode every damned week of every damned year.

 

...Oh, actually, after checking, it seems Gunsmoke almost did that too - for the first several seasons, they only had about two months off before the next one started... I guess that would explain why it has so many more episodes than the original Law and Order, despite having as many seasons.

 

Still, dunno why they don't just say they have more episodes than any other show, it's not like that's not impressive itself.

 

Gunsmoke wasn't on weekly. It took breaks just like just like every other show in television history that's been on longer than Raw. They can't say they have more episodes than any other show because they're not even close. Dozens of shows have more - many soap operas, which run into the tens of thousands in some cases. They have to word it so specifically because that's the only way it's true.

 

Actually, they don't just say "The longest running..." They say "Monday Night Raw is the longest running, weekly, episodic television program in cable TV history." Which is accurate. Over double the episodes of Gunsmoke, unless you count their radio show as well. Probably still more episodes, considering Raw has over 950. Also, Gunsmoke wasn't "Cable TV".

 

They say television show history, not Cable TV history, but yeah. It's the "weekly" thing that gets them past Gunsmoke, since they take time off. "Episodic" discounts game shows and talk shows and the like.

 

What, was Gunsmoke not episodic? Really know nothing about the show, to be honest. But if it's not even matching the criteria, why do they keep mentioning it?

 

But it is matching the criteria, that's the point. It's just a very strict, specific criteria. Trust me, if it wasn't true, they wouldn't keep saying it.

 

Here's a milestone for you - SmackDown! actually has some overrun this week!

 

Usually, it just cuts out really abruptly at 9:00. (By my time.)

 

Yep, there's your difference between taped and live.

 

This is why we NEED a brand split. The likes of Cody Rhodes weren't on TV this week and it'll get worse when ADR comes back.

 

On a positive note, Christian faking out Orton was funny with a good story

 

Yeah, the brand split is crucial for the midcard. I just hope they're not phasing it out. Raw's already phased it out at least temporarily with their Supershow thing, and if Smackdown! goes live every week I'm sure they'll be a Super show too.

 

What the hell is the WWE doing? Seriously. It's not just that a lot of what's currently going on is bad, it's that it makes no sense.

 

Sigh.

 

Why can't people just watch the show and let things play out before they have a stroke freaking out about it? Are there questions to be answered about what's going on on Raw? Of course. There's also 15,000 good ways to answer them. That's the whole point. People aren't going to watch if everything makes sense every week. The point of this week's show is to get you to tune in to next week's show, not make all the people you like look good and all the people you don't like look bad. Sit back, relax. Watch the shows and take in the bigger picture. More often than not, things will make sense and be good when you do that.

 

Was Ricardo trying to do an "All Hail KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING BOOKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER" thing just now?

 

There were two things that could've made that segment much more fun. Either the crowd yelling "queue?" when he spoke in Spanish and "what?" when he spoke English(more likely to happen in Texas or Southern California, admittedly), or what Ricardo should've done was say something in Spanish, pause for the crowd to say "What" and then translate in English. That's the key to being a good mic guy in the WWE these days, being able to work with the "What?" from the crowd.