The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hashasheen]

I'm assuming Wade was representing the Smackdown Superstars, Beth the Divas as Champion, and Lawler the Raw guys?

 

Still, it was a major cluster**** solely intended to put over Triple H. I've never liked him as a wrestler though I've seen why people have, but this entire saga has just really put me off him.

[OctoberRaven]

No, Wade was representing ALL the wrestling. Lawler was representing himself.

[Fantabulous]

I honestly believe alot less is actually written, word for word, as people think... at least now-a-days.

 

That's not to say they don't have a program to follow. I just think it's alot more flexible then it has been in... I don't know eight years now?

 

I'd laugh if I didn't think you were being serious. Top stars? Yeah, they have input and can influence what they say. But someone like Phoenix? Once she gets her lines those are the ones she says.

[milamber]

Can't believe no one's mentioned Vengeance yet and the fact that Orton and Cena are both not in title matches. That should make most people happy. I assume the Heavyweight match will be Sheamus losing to Henry. I'm positive ADR will retain but I can't think of a Raw face worthy of a title shot right now. Vengeance seems like it might suffer from being a set up for Survivor Series.

[Jaysin]

I agree completely.

 

And did I see Rene Dupree at the far end where Wade Barrett was? Maybe it was a NXT superstar, as I don't even watch it or anything, but he looked like him, or maybe Ricky Ortiz..? .. I doubt it was him...Now I'm bummed.

 

I didn't watch Raw, but you're probably talking about the ever amazing Derrick Bateman.

[ChrisKid]

This better be the start of a heel turn for HHH as i hate him as a face (extremley bland face at that) plus didn't HHH also hold back Eugene

[Mr Rager]

Can't believe no one's mentioned Vengeance yet and the fact that Orton and Cena are both not in title matches. That should make most people happy. I assume the Heavyweight match will be Sheamus losing to Henry. I'm positive ADR will retain but I can't think of a Raw face worthy of a title shot right now. Vengeance seems like it might suffer from being a set up for Survivor Series.

 

How has that conclusion be reached?

 

I thought the aftermath of the Orton/Henry match at HIAC made it pretty clear that there would be a third match between the two, and John Cena still has the rematch clause which has decided the last two PPV matches for the WWE Championship.

 

In regards to Sheamus, I think that they'll build him more slowly and have him be the guy to finally topple Mark Henry. In terms of crowd reactions, he seems to be the hottest thing on Smackdown right now. His previous feud with Henry is still too fresh in the mind, though.

[juggaloninjalee]

How has that conclusion be reached?

 

I thought the aftermath of the Orton/Henry match at HIAC made it pretty clear that there would be a third match between the two, and John Cena still has the rematch clause which has decided the last two PPV matches for the WWE Championship.

 

In regards to Sheamus, I think that they'll build him more slowly and have him be the guy to finally topple Mark Henry. In terms of crowd reactions, he seems to be the hottest thing on Smackdown right now. His previous feud with Henry is still too fresh in the mind, though.

 

Orton and Henry looked to be done as of Monday. Looks like Big Show and Henry will feud for a month or two. I have no clue what they are going to do with Orton other than possibly feud with Rhodes now?

 

ADR and Cena seem to have just begun.

[OldStingberg]

In regards to Sheamus, I think that they'll build him more slowly and have him be the guy to finally topple Mark Henry. In terms of crowd reactions, he seems to be the hottest thing on Smackdown right now. His previous feud with Henry is still too fresh in the mind, though.

 

I was just reading something today from PWI I think that mentioned the WWE is leaning towards slowly building Sheamus to go for the title at WrestleMania.

 

There's also rumblings from sources within the WWE that now that Punk has become the top seller of merch both in the arenas and online, the WWE is looking at giving him a major push, including potentially putting the WWE title on him in a few months and letting him go into WrestleMania as the champion, and let the Cena/Rock match not have the belt on the line. I really, reaaly hope they do that because it makes total sense in every possible way.

[bookerman]

Guess who is on the cover of the WWE mag....

 

Not Henry talking about the Hall of Pain and his 15 year quest

 

Not ADR talking about his destiny it was to win the title

 

Not Miz/Truth exposing the conspiracy

 

Starts with an H....ends with an H....has an H in the middle.

 

The question shouldn't be who has HHH held down, it should be who (besides HBK) had a feud with HHH and came out of it in a much better position than they were when they started. Batista? Sheamus (his lifting buddy)? Look at the Angle/Steph/HHH story and how well put together it was only for HHH to come out on top in the end.

 

The basic HHH MO has been

1 - find hot face who is getting over

2 - start feud with top face

3 - run down face on mic (including comments of "you aren't in my league")

4 - hit face with sledgehammer

5- win match with face/outsmart face at every turn (this is where Batista came out ahead as he wasn't made to look so idiotic)

6 - after a match or two where the face gets exposed as unable to beat HHH or unable to get ahead in anyway - point 3 is more or less shown to be the case. HHH comes out on top and face is no longer as popular/over as they were before. HHH still roughly at same level.

 

HHH rarely if ever shows weakness, whether in the ring or in promos. It's why his stuff as COO is so bland. He is written/decides to come out ahead in every segment he is in. His stuff with Punk didn't give Punk "the rub", Punk reached that level before HHH came back by virtue of his promos and the MITB match. He was over and he was cutting good/great promos. Now he's lost on 2 straight PPVs and doesn't appear to be in the hunt for the title anymore. He also doesn't have a clearly defined "what next" for the next PPV.

[bookerman]

I was just reading something today from PWI I think that mentioned the WWE is leaning towards slowly building Sheamus to go for the title at WrestleMania.

 

There's also rumblings from sources within the WWE that now that Punk has become the top seller of merch both in the arenas and online, the WWE is looking at giving him a major push, including potentially putting the WWE title on him in a few months and letting him go into WrestleMania as the champion, and let the Cena/Rock match not have the belt on the line. I really, reaaly hope they do that because it makes total sense in every possible way.

 

I may be in the minority, but I think Punk/ADR or Punk/Miz for the title with good build and solid promos focusing on the belt could be fun.

[Mr Rager]

Orton and Henry looked to be done as of Monday. Looks like Big Show and Henry will feud for a month or two. I have no clue what they are going to do with Orton other than possibly feud with Rhodes now?

 

ADR and Cena seem to have just begun.

 

I can't see the feud being done just because Mark Henry said so, especially after Orton being the only person to have gotten the better of Henry in an exchange for a long time. Without having read any spoilers, I'd guess that Orton will get involved either during or after Henry's altercation with Big Show on Smackdown this week.

[juggaloninjalee]

I can't see the feud being done just because Mark Henry said so, especially after Orton being the only person to have gotten the better of Henry in an exchange for a long time. Without having read any spoilers, I'd guess that Orton will get involved either during or after Henry's altercation with Big Show on Smackdown this week.

 

You may be right. I am avoiding the spoilers too but if anything maybe they add Big Show into the mix. I don't see Big Show returning from injury due to Henry only being mad for 1 show. That has to be something that builds to a PPV match.

[OldStingberg]

HHH rarely if ever shows weakness, whether in the ring or in promos. It's why his stuff as COO is so bland. He is written/decides to come out ahead in every segment he is in. His stuff with Punk didn't give Punk "the rub", Punk reached that level before HHH came back by virtue of his promos and the MITB match. He was over and he was cutting good/great promos. Now he's lost on 2 straight PPVs and doesn't appear to be in the hunt for the title anymore. He also doesn't have a clearly defined "what next" for the next PPV.

 

Three straight PPVs if you include ADR cashing in on him to end SummerSlam. And not just three straight PPV losses, but three straight losses that involved him getting pinned to essentially close the show.

 

I agree with you about Punk/ADR or Punk/Miz for the title at WM. I'd also throw in Punk/Ziggler if Dolph wins the Royal Rumble. Those feuds would all be golden, and a great way to elevate those guys and continue building their stars on a PPV guaranteed to be huge because of Cena/Rock.

[TheKenwyne]

I was wondering why Barrett was "elected" to speak on behalf of the superstars, myself. That just didn't make sense to me, since he hasn't done anything of note since being excommunicated from the Nexus.

 

As for why Beth was speaking for the divas, I assumed that was simply because she's the Divas Champion. You didn't see Kelly Kelly or Eve out there at all.

 

I think he was elected simply because everyone hates the guy. Even in his hometown of Manchester he was booed out the building last year - and if he runs down HHH there's no danger of anyone forgetting who the face in the segment is. I don't agree with the booking, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

[Wrestling Century]

Actually, I also love Michael Cole's character. I'm just saying everyone else in the IWC. Not the few of us who like him.

 

I've actually warmed up to Michael Cole's character. He reminds me of Bobby Heenan in WCW, doing commentary. I find it quite entertaining. However, all of the storylines/fueds that he had at WM this year were awful.

[Wrestling Century]

This better be the start of a heel turn for HHH as i hate him as a face (extremley bland face at that) plus didn't HHH also hold back Eugene

 

Yeah, I don't know why he agreed to put over Eugene..........

 

Anyways, I've always hated babyface Triple H. He was/is way cooler as a bad*** heel using his sledgehammer and friends to cheat to win, while still seeming bad***. Am I the only person who liked the Evolution stable?

[Mr Rager]

Am I the only person who liked the Evolution stable?

 

Nope, I liked it. I can't think of a stable that has been better executed and made a bigger (long-lasting) impact in WWE in the past decade - not that that's saying a lot.

 

I quite like Michael Cole's character, but he still needs to learn to a) not just bicker throughout entire matches at time and b) shut up when a wrestler is cutting a promo. Jerry Lawler has also become guilty of doing these things, and his character sucks.

[Horace222]

Well i think Punk is the Best in the World

[OctoberRaven]

Best wrestler in the world right now is Minoru Suzuki.

 

Best PERFORMER, though, is Mark Henry. Nobody has been more legit monsterous than him.

[lazorbeak]

Best wrestler in the world right now is Minoru Suzuki.

 

Best PERFORMER, though, is Mark Henry. Nobody has been more legit monsterous than him.

 

And as we all know, "performer" is a synonym for "monstrous." Nothing is more terrifying than Shawn Michaels circa 1996. I kid though, Henry has been pretty great.

 

As far as Punk goes, it's a slippery slope. If Punk just wins every match, all the time, maybe it raises his profile a little, but he is not so flawless as a performer that fans might not end up resenting him. If he's moving merchandise and getting top spots (which he is), then that's a positive. That said, I do wish he was given the same opportunities to talk that he had a few months ago. He doesn't seem to have that same "this is something special" aura on him any more, which is a shame because he's obviously capable of performing at that level.

[Tha Black Phenom]

HHH rarely if ever shows weakness, whether in the ring or in promos. It's why his stuff as COO is so bland. He is written/decides to come out ahead in every segment he is in. His stuff with Punk didn't give Punk "the rub", Punk reached that level before HHH came back by virtue of his promos and the MITB match. He was over and he was cutting good/great promos.

 

Yeah.. and HHH getting involved KEPT Punk up there. Despite the loss, it allowed Punk to extend his time in the spotlight. That's where the pipebombs came flowing out, buddy. They weren't gonna flow out in a feud with The Miz or against Dolph Ziggler. H knew that Punk had to mesh with veterans, let him milk the wife jokes for all they're worth, and on the side he brought Nash in. Of course, Nash was supposed to compete and Punk would've likely won then, but H stepped in and with their stipulation(which I think they could've done without but) it ensured the HHH win.

 

 

Also, just putting this here.

 

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/242982-exclusive-cena-no-longer-the-1-wwe-merch-seller-new-1

 

WrestleZone has confirmed that an internal memo sent to WWE staffers this week listed the top 10 merchandise sellers, and John Cena has been replaced for the first time in several years as the number one seller.

 

The new number one?

 

CM Punk.

 

According to the memo, Punk is the number one merchandise selling WWE Superstar both on WWE Shop Zone and at the live events. The only time Cena was not number one was when The Rock returned to WWE Monday Night Raw, and his t-shirts sold a record number on ShopZone.

 

According to a key source in WWE, two of Punk's shirts have already eclipsed the Rock's one-day sales record. "Punk's merchandise is hot," our source told us, "no one has dethroned Cena in over 5 years, and Punk's numbers are way above anything or anyone else."

[bookerman]

I think Punk could have continued the feud/rivalry with Cena sans HHH and still be where he is today. The promo that sparked everything had nothing to do with HHH or Vince. It dealt with the way WWE decided who to hire and who to give chances to. Everything Punk said in that initial promo was kept within the framework constructed by the WWE and did nothing to take away from people wanting to see him and Cena in a match. The momentum of that promo and the performance at MITB lasted until Summerslam and then things went sideways.

 

The logical feuds coming out were Punk vs ADR and Cena vs HHH with Nash (who had the idea in creative to bring him in - Vince? HHH?) either acting as ADR's muscle or eventually revealed as being sent in by HHH to put Punk in his place. The story has changed from how is Punk's rebellious outspoken character going to do in the WWE to has HHH lost control?

 

As always, the WWE hotshotted a lot of stuff (Punk's return, HHH/Punk match - I agree the COO stip was pointless, the umpteen title changes in less than 3 months) while somehow managing to make Mark Freakin Henry into a viable monster despite his limited in-ring abilities and average at best promo skills (which haven't hurt him since he found a very good promo style).

 

The frustrating thing about Punk/Cena is what could have been with that feud without the overinvolvement of HHH and going back to a GM/figurehead story.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I also agree Punk/Cena could've went much further than that. I guess when I saw Del Rio cash in, I told myself "well that's all she wrote". Things were indeed cut short when H stepped in the scene, but I don't regret it all that much either.

[OldStingberg]

I think Punk could have continued the feud/rivalry with Cena sans HHH and still be where he is today.

 

I think he would have been a lot better off that where he is today. In fact, I think Punk feuding with pretty much anybody but Triple H would have left Punk better off.

 

I just don't understand the idea that the Triple H feud has kept Punk elevated. The thing that has kept Punk elevated is Punk. The WWE has done everything they could reasonably do to slow Punk down short of Morrisoning him or taking him off TV. I mean, they took the title off him, they threw him into a bad feud where he played the role of douche to Triple H's badass moral babyface, then they had Punk get pinned a couple times to close out PPVs before shifting the main storyline in the WWE totally away from him. That might be Triple H's idea of elevating a guy, but I don't think it should be anyone else's.

 

The fact that Punk is still going reasonably strong is a credit solely to the speed he was going at before they started slowing him down.