The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[ZMAN]

I don't see why Cole assisting in getting Bryan over is such a negative thing, anyway. That's his job isn't it? Giving him full credit is garbage, but he does deserve a little bit of recognition. Just like Jr. deserves some credit when it comes to getting guys like SCSA over. Same with Brain / Flair, and several other workers who have received help from announcers in getting their gimmicks over.

 

Cole is here for the long-run, okay cool DB shouldn't have a problem remaining WHW champion then, since Cole is the reason he is champion. I think fans can live with that.

 

It really is the most pointless argument(with the intent of just stirring up trouble with passionate DB fans), but w/e I guess that's why we have these forums.

[djthefunkchris]

It really is the most pointless argument(with the intent of just stirring up trouble with passionate DB fans), but w/e I guess that's why we have these forums.

 

Actually, the point was just to give Cole a little credit for what he's doing... Daniel Bryan just happens to be the focal point, but certainly no one has denied Bryan's actual in ring talent. It's not to stir up any trouble with any passionate fans of Daniel Bryan's, but to perhaps take a little hate off of Cole.

 

I'd bet money if anyone (including myself) thought that I was going to upset a Daniel Bryan fan, I just wouldn't have said anything at all... after all, I'm a Daniel Bryan fan.

[moon_lit_tears]

Actually, the point was just to give Cole a little credit for what he's doing... Daniel Bryan just happens to be the focal point, but certainly no one has denied Bryan's actual in ring talent. It's not to stir up any trouble with any passionate fans of Daniel Bryan's, but to perhaps take a little hate off of Cole.

 

I'd bet money if anyone (including myself) thought that I was going to upset a Daniel Bryan fan, I just wouldn't have said anything at all... after all, I'm a Daniel Bryan fan.

 

I'm a fan too, my problem is Cole is just too....over the top.

 

He comes off like a jerk. I know that's his role, but when Jerry was a heel commentator he had a way of not sounding so crude.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm a fan too, my problem is Cole is just too....over the top.

 

He comes off like a jerk. I know that's his role, but when Jerry was a heel commentator he had a way of not sounding so crude.

 

My opinion, Jerry was never a 100% Heel. I really can't recall anyone in the last several years as a 100% heel. For example, Jerry would be a heel 'til they messed with JR. To me... Jerry is still bassically the same character he has been. Still gives Miz and other heels credit, still says things about Face's that aren't exactly "good". He just has never been 100% heel, and with Cole being that 100% Heel, Jerry isn't really balancing it out the way a "Face" commentator should. He has his say now and then, but never really comes off with anything to fight Cole's words with effectively. Put someone that is 100% face in his shoe's, someone that could balance it out better, and you would probably see Cole in a different light.

[moon_lit_tears]

My opinion, Jerry was never a 100% Heel. I really can't recall anyone in the last several years as a 100% heel. For example, Jerry would be a heel 'til they messed with JR. To me... Jerry is still bassically the same character he has been. Still gives Miz and other heels credit, still says things about Face's that aren't exactly "good". He just has never been 100% heel, and with Cole being that 100% Heel, Jerry isn't really balancing it out the way a "Face" commentator should. He has his say now and then, but never really comes off with anything to fight Cole's words with effectively. Put someone that is 100% face in his shoe's, someone that could balance it out better, and you would probably see Cole in a different light.

 

 

It's possible, but I've never liked Cole since he started years ago.

 

They need a chick up there.

 

See I think getting someone who is the opposite of Jerry more for the heels, but not quite as obnoxious as Cole and you'd be good.

[djthefunkchris]

It's possible, but I've never liked Cole since he started years ago.

 

They need a chick up there.

 

See I think getting someone who is the opposite of Jerry more for the heels, but not quite as obnoxious as Cole and you'd be good.

 

I'd like to see a female commentator at some point, as long as she does well.

 

I agree to an extent with you though. I liked Jerry with Jr. I felt it was a good balance, because Jerry would give JR's points consideration, and likewise JR would do the same. They worked well together.

 

You're looking for that "halfway" guy, which is what Jerry played (and still does to an extent) all along, or at least the last several years.

 

I get that you don't like Cole (bad heat, not good heat), want to turn the channel when he comes on, etc. He doesn't rub you right, and there is alot of reasons that type of character wouldn't... outside of the fact that he plays it so well, I can't help feeling it's closer to how he really is. He's that guy you have to work for that gets people upset, then dares them to hit them because he knows it could cause you your job. He's that sniveling brat that would tell on people (anything from School to work, to whatever) because he thinks if he makes you look bad, it makes him look good. He's that guy that thinks the louder you are, it will make him look right, no matter how wrong he is, etc.

 

It's the role though... I hate people like that in real life, and I have on occasion just said to heck with it, and did something I probably shouldn't have (although the effect has always been.. I don't have to put up with them anymore). In real life, I wouldn't want to be around someone like him, wouldn't want to talk to him, wouldn't want to be at a party he's at, etc... But I would love for him to be publicly embarrased. I'd love for people to prove him wrong. I'd love for him to put his foot in his mouth over and over again, just to shut him up.

 

That's the person they have him portray, and that's why it's so borderline. I guy that just don't take any crap, or is mad because he's been done wrong, hasn't been given a proper chance, etc... and is a Heel, they are easy to get behind as heels. People who just play weak little sniveling weezle's are different. All I'm saying is it's effective.

[Teh_Showtime]

My opinion, Jerry was never a 100% Heel. I really can't recall anyone in the last several years as a 100% heel.

 

Lawler was uber heel in the early/mid 90s. One of my favorite matches is Bret vs Owen WMX and he was for sure a heel in the booth for that time period.

[ZMAN]

A better colour guy might improve Cole's performance. JBL and Taz seemed to make Cole tolerable back in the day. Lawler and Booker just seem out of it half of the time. They are too easy for Cole to pick on, which allows him say pretty much whatever he wants. They need someone witty or smart, who can come up with clever comebacks to balance out the booth.

[Jaysin]

Booker would be so much better behind the desk if he just acted like himself instead of being an exaggerated version of himself.

[Fantabulous]

Anyone who claims Michael Cole is the reason Daniel Bryan is World champion is so beyond clueless as to simply be impossible to take seriously. And if it's an attempt at trolling, the conclusion is the same, because it's such a desperate cry for attention.

[Basmat01]

The WWE want you to hate Cole. everyone who hates having to listen to Cole is because the WWE WANTS you to hate Cole. So when Cole gets beat up or made to look like a fool. its the face who gets that little momentum from it.

 

Daniel was put in the position where when he told Cole to suck it he would get that cheer for it. Santino could of taken that spot and the outcome would of been the same.

 

Cole is not the reason Daniel is world champ. But I do think that The Miz and Cole both help start it off on NXT.

[Self]

I was so excited for the angle with Miz on NXT. It was a perfect way to kick Bryan off... for a few weeks. It got muddled along the way, but the premise was gold.

 

Sure, babyfaces get a pop for hitting or mocking Cole, but the little bugger always survives. So any blows struck against him seem ineffectual. To me anyway. I keep up with goings on, but I don't actually watch RAW regularly. Last time I saw 2 or more episodes in a RAW was at the beginning of the summer of Punk.

 

Oh, and djthefunkchris, have you watched any Japan? I can see what you mean about indy wrestling being kids playing (although as they're all my age I don't find it off-putting yet) but there are Japanese promotions with men in there. NJPW are apparently awesome. I'm more of a Dragon Gate guy (openthedragongate.com to see episodes) but they may be kinda indy for you.

[Linsolv]

I find that I don't like anything out of Japan more than the late 80s AJPW matches with Tenryu. :I

[djthefunkchris]

I was so excited for the angle with Miz on NXT. It was a perfect way to kick Bryan off... for a few weeks. It got muddled along the way, but the premise was gold.

 

Sure, babyfaces get a pop for hitting or mocking Cole, but the little bugger always survives. So any blows struck against him seem ineffectual. To me anyway. I keep up with goings on, but I don't actually watch RAW regularly. Last time I saw 2 or more episodes in a RAW was at the beginning of the summer of Punk.

 

Oh, and djthefunkchris, have you watched any Japan? I can see what you mean about indy wrestling being kids playing (although as they're all my age I don't find it off-putting yet) but there are Japanese promotions with men in there. NJPW are apparently awesome. I'm more of a Dragon Gate guy (openthedragongate.com to see episodes) but they may be kinda indy for you.

 

I've watched match's (off and on... I'm a MVP fan, so I kind of watch him still)... Same with Lucha. The only downfall I have is I don't understand any of the language, so I get bored with it even faster when they do talk.

 

It's fun at times though. I don't watch anything well enough to know who is who, but I have watched Alberto Del Rio with a mask, etc. I do watch the occassional Indie wrestling as well. I love that joker type character... Krimson (not the one in TNA, the one in Ohio). Really think he could come on WWE and stir it up, if they let it happen and went full out with that gimmick.

[djthefunkchris]

Anyone who claims Michael Cole is the reason Daniel Bryan is World champion is so beyond clueless as to simply be impossible to take seriously. And if it's an attempt at trolling, the conclusion is the same, because it's such a desperate cry for attention.

I don't see anyone trolling. Your entitled to your opinion, we are entitle'd to our opinion. No one has put Daniel Bryan down, and no one has said he didnt' deserve it (Cole or no Cole). All that is said is Cole helped him get there faster. If you can't see that, it's ok. No one is trying to force their opinion on you, and you don't have to take anyone seriously if you don't want to.

 

Personally, I think Punk had a little something to do with it as well (backstage). That's just me thinking Punk has a little bit of pull though, something you probably wouldn't believe either.

The WWE want you to hate Cole. everyone who hates having to listen to Cole is because the WWE WANTS you to hate Cole. So when Cole gets beat up or made to look like a fool. its the face who gets that little momentum from it.

 

Daniel was put in the position where when he told Cole to suck it he would get that cheer for it. Santino could of taken that spot and the outcome would of been the same.

 

Cole is not the reason Daniel is world champ. But I do think that The Miz and Cole both help start it off on NXT.

 

Exactly, any number of people could have been put in the same spot.

[moon_lit_tears]

See I don't think that's true. Yes we all like to see Cole get told, but I don't think you can put *anyone* in that spot and get the same outcome.

 

He does give a small push to Bryan but you can't take what the guy has away from him.

 

Nor can you call the fans sheep, because that's kinda what you're doing by saying anyone in that spot would be in Bryans spot now.

[Astil]

Anyone who claims Michael Cole is the reason Daniel Bryan is World champion is so beyond clueless as to simply be impossible to take seriously. And if it's an attempt at trolling, the conclusion is the same, because it's such a desperate cry for attention.

 

Not trolling, not dumb, and I believe that. I presented some facts as to why I believe my point, such as Cole is meant to be hated and gives a big rub to anyone who 'proves him wrong'. Cole's opinions are usually dismissed, so having Cole bring up 'facts' even if they are true diminishes the truthfulness.

 

Look, Daniel is good. Really good. But without Cole's help he's Chavo Guerrero in the WWE. He just doesn't get over.

 

Personally, I think Punk had a little something to do with it as well (backstage). That's just me thinking Punk has a little bit of pull though, something you probably wouldn't believe either.

 

Interesting theory. I wonder if after MitB he's seen differently by creative.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Comeon lol. COLE is the reason the guy's champion???

 

Bryan Danielson one of the best wrestlers I've EVER seen in my life. An all around amazing performer who has done great work. Now his WWE stuff has been decidedly less "balls-to-the-wall" for lack of a better phrase, but he's actually transitions very well into their style of storytelling and performance.

 

Now of course I understand he hasn't done it alone. Good angles and good opponents have helped him rise. I suppose commentary as well. But I simply do not agree at all with the idea that MICHEAL COLE is the sole reason Daniel Bryan has a belt. I'm sorry. Cole has ripped too many people just as hard for that to be a valid reason for anything. Under that logic, A-Ry should be bigger than John Cena right now.

 

Personally, I'm not taking anything away from him. Bryan is one of the most talented around, but you and I both know talent alone doesn't cut it in the WWE. Among the many factors you need, you need that "hook" that captures the fans' attention, whether related to their gimmick or demeanor. At the top of the mountain in WWE's history has reigned the talentless and the talented.

 

Yeah, Bryan has transitioned well to their style.. that's the minimal requirement to keep his job. that can't be the end of it. Cole's contribution was vital in his rise to the top, because it was part of Bryan's schtick.. being the sympathetic babyface ith a dreadful W/L record throughout the year, which only added to what Cole was saying. Take that away from him, and what does he have? Exactly. If you tell me sheer talent, then it just likens him to another Benoit, MVP or pre-2011 Christian who've wandered around for years with workrate only to their name.

 

I don't see why Cole assisting in getting Bryan over is such a negative thing, anyway. That's his job isn't it? Giving him full credit is garbage, but he does deserve a little bit of recognition. Just like Jr. deserves some credit when it comes to getting guys like SCSA over. Same with Brain / Flair, and several other workers who have received help from announcers in getting their gimmicks over.

 

Cole is here for the long-run, okay cool DB shouldn't have a problem remaining WHW champion then, since Cole is the reason he is champion. I think fans can live with that.

 

Agreed on all counts.

 

Anyone who claims Michael Cole is the reason Daniel Bryan is World champion is so beyond clueless as to simply be impossible to take seriously. And if it's an attempt at trolling, the conclusion is the same, because it's such a desperate cry for attention.

 

Wah.

[Fantabulous]

It's interesting that when people talk about how much they hate Cole's commentary, they usually get met with people insisting that's the 'right' reaction and who totally ignore that Cole's commentary is a major turn-off for that person. It's obvious some people get into a Cole as a heel, which is fine, but whenever I hear or read or see people talking about how much they hate Cole on commentary, it's very rarely in the vein of him being a great heel who they want to see get it in the end but almost entirely a genuine hatred of his commentary with some very valid explanations of how and why it's a major turn-off for them and taking away from the product. Like I said, if people are into him as a heel, that's fine, but I think it's about time such people realize they're the ones in the minority and the majority of people who hate Cole aren't wanting him to get his comeuppance they're just wanting him to shut up and go away. I'd like to think most people, even those who get into Cole's character, are intelligent enough to realize that you're main commentator being such an obnoxious heel whilst simultaneously being the guy who is meant to be the main salesperson to get across the matches and stories to where people buy into them and buy the product is a bad combination. I'd like to think that, anyway.

[Astil]

/shrug

 

I'm in the minority then. I think Cole works as an announcer and riles people up in the right way.

 

Still doesn't make me think Bryan would be champ if Cole hadn't put him over again and again. Not this early at least.

 

You're point about Cole being the main salesperson kind of leads into my opinion. Without Cole's selling the casual fan's wouldn't have bought Bryan. Without the casual fans support Bryan is a midcarder, no matter how good he is in the ring. It just so happens that Cole sells using reverse psychology. Hate who I love, love who I hate.

[djthefunkchris]

/nod.

 

You know Daniel Bryan is great in the ring... but that's not what gets you over in WWE. With Punk... It was all Punk. That promo did it, and my opinion was his Austin 3:16 moment. With Bryan? It wasn't his godly mic skill, it wasn't some promo, it's not his great physique, it wasn't some awesome youtube show, and everyone knows that actaul in ring talent is at best secondary in WWE. So what did it? His boyish charm?

 

Cole had alot to do with it, and even after the first time he (Bryan) was on TV, with Cole doing exactly what he's been doing all along, they felt they had "Made" a star, unless the IWC was wrong on Vince's comments of the show.

[OldStingberg]

/shrug

 

I'm in the minority then. I think Cole works as an announcer and riles people up in the right way.

 

Still doesn't make me think Bryan would be champ if Cole hadn't put him over again and again. Not this early at least.

 

You're point about Cole being the main salesperson kind of leads into my opinion. Without Cole's selling the casual fan's wouldn't have bought Bryan. Without the casual fans support Bryan is a midcarder, no matter how good he is in the ring. It just so happens that Cole sells using reverse psychology. Hate who I love, love who I hate.

 

But the casual fans haven't bought Bryan! That's the point. Relative to his position on the card, he gets the most tepid reaction. Until about a month or two ago when they put Bryan back into the title picture, he barely got any reaction at all.

 

If Bryan was over with the casual fans, Cole would have something to do with that. But he's not. That should tell you how well Cole has been "putting over" Bryan.

[Astil]

But the casual fans haven't bought Bryan! That's the point. Relative to his position on the card, he gets the most tepid reaction. Until about a month or two ago when they put Bryan back into the title picture, he barely got any reaction at all.

 

If Bryan was over with the casual fans, Cole would have something to do with that. But he's not. That should tell you how well Cole has been "putting over" Bryan.

 

The main event Henry vs. Bryan match they did on SD! recently says different, as did his faux cash in.

[djthefunkchris]

But the casual fans haven't bought Bryan! That's the point. Relative to his position on the card, he gets the most tepid reaction. Until about a month or two ago when they put Bryan back into the title picture, he barely got any reaction at all.

 

If Bryan was over with the casual fans, Cole would have something to do with that. But he's not. That should tell you how well Cole has been "putting over" Bryan.

 

I watch wrestling with nothing but casual fans and, at least with them, this is a totally incorrect statement. "In your face Cole!" is something that is said around the room everytime Bryan gets a win. Has been for some time. Laughter when Bryan goes over and stands right in front of Cole with his title. My wife can't stand Cole, and I'm telling you right now, anyone, ANYONE that gets in Cole's face, she yells at them to hit Cole (yeah... My wife does this and it's irritating sometimes). My wife is a casual fan, if you can even count her as a fan... she would rather watch a good movie anyday, puts up with Wrestling because of me.

 

You make it sound like WWE only put it on Bryan because of his indie following.... if that was the case, they could have put it on him when he first debuted, because if that's all it took, they were sure there then.

[djthefunkchris]

See I don't think that's true. Yes we all like to see Cole get told, but I don't think you can put *anyone* in that spot and get the same outcome.

 

He does give a small push to Bryan but you can't take what the guy has away from him.

 

Nor can you call the fans sheep, because that's kinda what you're doing by saying anyone in that spot would be in Bryans spot now.

 

I've been hearing the WWE fans are sheep for years. Doesn't mean they are, I know... It's about the Entertainment in WWE though, and Cole is a big part of that Entertainment, no matter if anyone want's to credit him or not. I've been reading IWC thoughts on him for a good while, and they don't give the guy any slack. To me though, it's exactly what Cole is supposed to be, the "Anti-IWC"... I mean, he calls them a bunch of losers almost every show, so of course "we" as the IWC are supposed to hate him and make him out to be "Bad Heat" because "WE" are the one's he is pulling no punches with. "Look at your puny little star IWC, He don't stand a chance IWC, He's a geek IWC, an INTERNET geek. He's not made of the material it takes for a promotion like WWE, he shouldn't even be here IWC! He's nothing compared to REAL stars!" and on and on he goes. He's getting the IWC to hate him (legitimately) and at the same time, casual fans can't stand him either, because he's a sniveling coward that shouts at the top of his lungs to get his point accross.

 

I understand the legitimate hate for Cole, I really do. However, I respectfully dissagree that it's not working for the casual fans.