SelfObscurity Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've been out of the loop for so long on wrestling, it's nice to get back in. I was a HUGE WCW fan. I turned Raw on during Nitro's commercials. I started getting back into it here and there a year ago or so, then more often within the last few months. While it will never be what it was, I sure enjoy a few of the gimmicks and storylines going on. I'm a big fan of Santino which is odd because back in the 90's, I wasn't a fan of the showboating and entertainment, I enjoyed watching Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Lance Storm. While I love Kane, I wish they would put him back to 1997 Kane, but it's not possible with their current targeted market. I do enjoy what he and Daniel Bryan are doing and give them credit. I think the CM Punk thing is being laid on a bit too thick, and I think it's done on purpose to generate more heat, because when the heel turn first started, crowed was as mixed for him as they are Cena. Ryback? Ugh. He has the look, but I just don't see the point. Look forward to getting more involved here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Being a heel has to be more fun Jericho goes on about this in his book. It is easier to get people to hate you than love you. You can say waht you want (to a certain extent) as a heel. that creative freedom can help some superstars excel on charisma alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You can book a heel strong in a match if you do it right. TNA started to get back to this with Rhoode (at the end of his run) and Aeris, and hopefully WWE is now starting that trend with Punk at least (don't get me started on ziggler, del rio, cody, miz ect, have any of them won clean over anyone above a mid carder this year?) Miz has won most of his matches clean since his return and IC title involvement. Cody doesn't win too often but does cheat at every opportunity. But overall WWE do book heels weaker than faces. It's like they're afraid that a clean win will lead to too much pop and not enough heat. But heels can easily garner heat if they're good enough in other ways without to win every match in a tainted fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 A few good things about Raw: 1) Sheamus vs Sandow was bad ass. 2) Daniel Bryan has been perhaps the most consistently entertaining person ont he show since Wrestlemania (for me personally). I'm not saying his mic stuff is better than Punk's or anyone's really. I AM saying that he's been very fun to watch for me. I simply get a kick out of watching him scream "no!" into these giant men's face lol. I don't know why. But it makes me laugh out loud every time I see it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Miz has won most of his matches clean since his return and IC title involvement. Cody doesn't win too often but does cheat at every opportunity. But overall WWE do book heels weaker than faces. It's like they're afraid that a clean win will lead to too much pop and not enough heat. But heels can easily garner heat if they're good enough in other ways without to win every match in a tainted fashion. Not to beat an old fashioned book, but part of the reason to hate heels, is because they cheat. No one likes a cheater, and this is the number one thing to do (in a match) to get heat. The only time I wouldn't include (Me personally) some form of tainted finish for a heel, is if he is either getting a monster push, a giant push, a talent push, to move up the card to face someone higher up the card then them... Otherwise, if they are to remain in the area they are, tag team, IC, US, etc. I would always have them win via tainted finish. This way the face is "cheated" out of a victory, and there is a clear vision of who is the good guy vs who is the bad guy. The only other reason I would not do a tainted win, is because I want them to turn.... as this can sometimes get a pre-face pop before the official turn. In all actuality, I would already be booking him/her as a face, as the crowd slowly gets behind them. With a Monster/Giant/Talent push, you're aiming to make them look unbeatable on sheer strength, size, or in ring ability, so your "Face" looks great when he beats them. The exact opposite is also true. IF your pushing a face with a monster/giant/talent push, the "heel" cheating a victory out of it will make them even more hated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Not to beat an old fashioned book, but part of the reason to hate heels, is because they cheat. No one likes a cheater, and this is the number one thing to do (in a match) to get heat. The only time I wouldn't include (Me personally) some form of tainted finish for a heel, is if he is either getting a monster push, a giant push, a talent push, to move up the card to face someone higher up the card then them... Otherwise, if they are to remain in the area they are, tag team, IC, US, etc. I would always have them win via tainted finish. This way the face is "cheated" out of a victory, and there is a clear vision of who is the good guy vs who is the bad guy. Agreed. It's not so much the "cheating," so much as the hypocrisy of cheating when the ref's back is turned, then hiding behind the rules when the ref is paying attention. From Roland Barthes' old article on wrestling, talking about being a heel, circa 1957: (A heel is) ...essentially someone unstable, who accepts the rules only when they are useful to him and transgresses the formal continuity of attitudes. He is unpredictable, therefore asocial. He takes refuge behind the law when he considers that it is in his favor, and breaks it when he finds it useful to do so. Sometimes he rejects the formal boundaries of the ring and goes on hitting an adversary legally protected by the ropes, sometimes he reestablishes these boundaries and claims the protection of what he did not respect a few minutes earlier. This inconsistency, far more than treachery or cruelty, sends the audience beside itself with rage: offended not in its morality but in its logic, it considers the contradiction of arguments as the basest of crimes. The forbidden move becomes dirty only when it destroys a quantitative equilibrium and disturbs the rigorous reckoning of compensations; what is condemned by the audience is not at all the transgression of insipid official rules, it is the lack of revenge, the absence of a punishment. So even though Hogan would inevitably do "heel" moves like eye rakes or other things that would cause Heenan or Jesse Ventura to call him a "cheater," he was actually just giving the heel the "payback" that the audience wanted to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 So even though Hogan would inevitably do "heel" moves like eye rakes or other things that would cause Heenan or Jesse Ventura to call him a "cheater," he was actually just giving the heel the "payback" that the audience wanted to see. Remember kids, it's only bad when the 'bad guys' do it. I wonder what would happen in the real world if a person or power had that mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Roguey Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Remember kids, it's only bad when the 'bad guys' do it. I wonder what would happen in the real world if a person or power had that mindset. You made me think of Hulk Hogan as President. He did moves like that to terrorists and stuff in my head. It made me spit cola everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Agreed. It's not so much the "cheating," so much as the hypocrisy of cheating when the ref's back is turned, then hiding behind the rules when the ref is paying attention. From Roland Barthes' old article on wrestling, talking about being a heel, circa 1957: So even though Hogan would inevitably do "heel" moves like eye rakes or other things that would cause Heenan or Jesse Ventura to call him a "cheater," he was actually just giving the heel the "payback" that the audience wanted to see. Ring psychology 101, and recently it's been condemned by what seems to be quite a few people. Give me a good ole' fashioned wrestling match with good ole' ring psychology fun any day of the week over any spot monkey match's... Not that spot monkey match's can't be fun as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Remember kids, it's only bad when the 'bad guys' do it. I wonder what would happen in the real world if a person or power had that mindset. Or like Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner do to Wyle E Coyote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hogan might need some normal psychology. Rumor has it this sex tape is with Bubba the Love Sponge's wife. And nick calls (ringtone is a brooke song lol) during the one minute of tape that's out there. Oh and nick's girlfriends twin sister (yep read it again it's right) wants to bang hogan. Yeaahhhh.... Someone at work is like, "You gotta see it!" I promptly declined the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKnifed72 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Remember kids, it's only bad when the 'bad guys' do it. I wonder what would happen in the real world if a person or power had that mindset. Have you not payed attention to American politics for the last 20 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Have you not payed attention to American politics for the last 20 years? Picking up on subtlety is not your strong point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Picking up on subtlety is not your strong point. You are just so smart Fantabulous with your razor sharp wit. What would this board be without Fantabutroll...uh Fantabulous? Keep it classy buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You are just so smart Fantabulous with your razor sharp wit. What would this board be without Fantabutroll...uh Fantabulous? Keep it classy buddy. Keep it classy? You mean like dismissing an opinion as trolling simply because I don't like it? That kind of classy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Keep it classy? You mean like dismissing an opinion as trolling simply because I don't like it? That kind of classy? I am going to do just one more off-topic post and then you can go back to trolling whomever you want: An insulting opinion that does not need to be stated. Did you need to be condescending towards JackKnifed? No but you did it anyway. That is your m.o. in pretty much every post you make on here outside of your diary. You troll others and then when someone calls you on it, you try to make yourself out to be the innocent party. You can mask it as your opinion but it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You are just so smart Fantabulous with your razor sharp wit. What would this board be without Fantabutroll...uh Fantabulous? Keep it classy buddy. Wow, nice to see that BHK still either doesn't know what a troll is, or operates on some level of hyper-irony where jumping into a conversation and name-calling others makes you the babyface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Wow, nice to see that BHK still either doesn't know what a troll is, or operates on some level of hyper-irony where jumping into a conversation and name-calling others makes you the babyface. First off, can we get back on topic? And second off, accusing someone of name-calling when you are doing the same exact thing is called hypocrisy. Look it up in the dictionary, I think that you might find you and Fantabulous's pictures next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 First off, can we get back on topic? And second off, accusing someone of name-calling when you are doing the same exact thing is called hypocrisy. Look it up in the dictionary, I think that you might find you and Fantabulous's pictures next to it. Except I didn't name-call anyone??? It is pretty lame to name-call somebody when they're actually contributing to the discussion, I agree. Anyway I've been watching this documentary on WCCW. Kerry Von Erich was such a huge waste of potential. The guy had all the tools, he just couldn't get himself on track. Even with a dumb gimmick, he still managed to do pretty well in WWF and could've been a superstar, if not for personal demons and family tragedy. Heck, David could've been a huge superstar too if he doesn't die at age 25 in Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakerNGN74 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Except I didn't name-call anyone??? It is pretty lame to name-call somebody when they're actually contributing to the discussion, I agree. Anyway I've been watching this documentary on WCCW. Kerry Von Erich was such a huge waste of potential. The guy had all the tools, he just couldn't get himself on track. Even with a dumb gimmick, he still managed to do pretty well in WWF and could've been a superstar, if not for personal demons and family tragedy. Heck, David could've been a huge superstar too if he doesn't die at age 25 in Japan. I own that documentary and it's really fricken sad and depressing, I think I have only watched it once since I bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Am I the only one in here who saw WWE's new show Main Event on Ion Wednesday night? There was a pretty good match on there between Sheamus and CM Punk, as well as a tag team match. I liked the Saturday Night's Main Event style presentation it had. I do feel that there is WAYYYYYYYYYY TOO MUCH WWE on TV these days, but I actually kinda liked this show. Just hadn't seen anyone else mention it is all, might have overlooked it if someone did. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Am I the only one in here who saw WWE's new show Main Event on Ion Wednesday night? There was a pretty good match on there between Sheamus and CM Punk, as well as a tag team match. I liked the Saturday Night's Main Event style presentation it had. I do feel that there is WAYYYYYYYYYY TOO MUCH WWE on TV these days, but I actually kinda liked this show. Just hadn't seen anyone else mention it is all, might have overlooked it if someone did. :) I stumbled on the results by accident. Didn't even know the show existed. So we've got FCW, NXT, Superstars, Main Event, 3-hour Raw, SmackDown and the PPVs -- overkill IMO. I'll stick to watching Raw, SD and PPVs. Although, with all the wrestlers they're signing these days, the more shows they have to accommodate a larger roster the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 FCW has become NXT and it's really not worth watching at all if you want indication on those wrestler's future. It's good for matches but most of them are called up with different gimmicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Just as an addendum to my previous post... The Main Event's presentation was good. The Sheamus - Punk match was given a pretty good amount of time, and was bolstered by some interview time and a darn good video package on the two competitors that did a lot to make the match seem like a big deal. The whole show was really about that one match, and the tag team match was more like a bonus. It was all right, for what it was. I was kind of hoping the other team would win, (though in my head I knew in advance who was going to win - didn't even need spoilers for that), but what can ya do? They also announced Big Show vs. Randy Orton for next week's show, and let Big Show give an interview on that. Strange as it might sound, I think I prefer the format to Raw or SmackDown!. Too much non-wrestling on those for my tastes, but this here was pretty solid in my view. Kind of a more traditional wrestling show. dvdWarrior-approved. Ya'll should at least check out the first episode if you get the chance, it should be on Hulu or WWE's YouTube channel, or somewhere. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I cant legally find NXT. And theres no such thing as too much wrestling! Id watch it everyday if i could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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