The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Rickymex]

Plus Sheamus could be the muscle of the group now that Batista is gone. He'd probably mesh well with Seth Rollins in tag team action as well.

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RKOwnage" data-cite="RKOwnage" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't think it's fair to cry foul when no fallout has even happened yet. Yes, as a huge Shield fan like many of us are it sucks to never see them as a faction again for the foreseeable future, but eventually it was going to happen. You can say that Reigns isn't ready, you can say that they're going to throw Ambrose and Rollins to the wayside and sure, that might be true. But we don't know that yet because nothing has even unfolded yet. What has unfolded was a great and shocking angle which has a lot of explaining yet to come. It could be best for the individuals or it could be really bad. We shall see.<p> </p><p> I believe that Rollins, and not Reigns, has been the standout of the Shield as a whole. His mic work has greatly improved and he's easily the best in the ring of the three. However, his personality isn't as magnetic or unique as the other two and thus I think it was the right move to turn him. He needs to be maintained as interesting to avoid falling away like the Kofis of the world, great workers with zero personality as a character. HHH did a great thing here. Instantly makes Evolution/Shield more interesting after the loss of Batista. I think it'll end up being the right move, but we'll see.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Irks me because this is what WWE _always_ does.</p><p> </p><p> For years, the excuse for why it was okay to shove Cena being god down our throats was "He sells the most merch!" This is exactly why. You show kids every week that one man is above everyone else and that's who they're going to cheer for, no matter how boring he actually is. People want a hero they know they can actually count on to get the job done.</p><p> </p><p> Every time anyone else even begins to get hot, they snub it out, quickly preventing any chance of someone else ever starting to take that spot.</p><p> </p><p> Punk? Turned heel and immediately dumbed down to the point of complete lackluster performances.</p><p> </p><p> Bryan? Took most of a year to actually accomplish something, proving himself incapable of something everyone knows Cena would've managed to pull off in 1 night.</p><p> </p><p> Shield gets to it's hottest point? Time to break them up before the rest of the world realizes how amazing they are and begins to Believe In The Shield.</p><p> </p><p> After Summer Slam, you think they're going to continue to build these guys, now? It's not going to happen, because the three men alone are never going to reach levels The Shield did, and as soon as one of them does, WWE will be quick to snub that fire out. No one can ever be seen on Cena's level.</p><p> </p><p> They'll make some garbage merch, claim they're not making enough money, and be midcard acts by next summer.</p>

[Mootinie]

<p>They're determined to do Triple H vs Roman Reigns at Summerslam so they had to do something to freshen up the rivalry because you can't let it run cold and there's really nothing else for them to do in the meantime. You'd be looking at five guys all having to find new rivalries and WWE just don't have the roster for that. Splitting up The Shield is a means to an end and it's also an interesting shake-up.</p><p> </p><p>

Although yes, WWE do have a history of killing momentum but there's really no alternative. </p><p> </p><p>

In response to Cesaro, the only thing about him that was interesting and over was his catchphrase. It's only natural that he has to be rebuilt.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> In response to Cesaro, the only thing about him that was interesting and over was his catchphrase. It's only natural that he has to be rebuilt.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Are you serious? They absolutely could have turned him baby night after WM and he would have instantly been main event credible. He didn't need a catchphrase when he was having the crowd go insane during his matches with Cena and Orton and the swing is the ultimate face move.</p><p> </p><p> They're just keeping him at bay probably until Lesnar has to show up which is fine if that's where he goes, but let's not act like he wasnt more than ready coming off an amazing WM for him</p>

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you serious? They absolutely could have turned him baby night after WM and he would have instantly been main event credible. He didn't need a catchphrase when he was having the crowd go insane during his matches with Cena and Orton and the swing is the ultimate face move.<p> </p><p> They're just keeping him at bay probably until Lesnar has to show up which is fine if that's where he goes, but let's not act like he wasnt more than ready coming off an amazing WM for him</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah I didn't phrase that right haha. My point was that he doesn't have the gimmick anymore that got him over, that's all I meant.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>I'll agree with that, when he was teaming with Swagger he had a different aura to him and he seemed very likable as either a future face or even a cool heel and now it just seems like they gave him the ultra serious persona that every heel does these days and now he's back to being the soulless robot people thought he was initially.</p><p> </p><p>

A lot of his interaction with Zeb and Swagger was fun and now he just does nothing while Heyman speaks about Lesnar 24/7</p>

[20LEgend]

The turn was brilliantly done IMO, Triple H was so good on the mic earlier in the night too. Interested to see where they go next.

[dpoolez]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Irks me because this is what WWE _always_ does.<p> </p><p> For years, the excuse for why it was okay to shove Cena being god down our throats was "He sells the most merch!" This is exactly why. You show kids every week that one man is above everyone else and that's who they're going to cheer for, no matter how boring he actually is. People want a hero they know they can actually count on to get the job done.</p><p> </p><p> Every time anyone else even begins to get hot, they snub it out, quickly preventing any chance of someone else ever starting to take that spot.</p><p> </p><p> Punk? Turned heel and immediately dumbed down to the point of complete lackluster performances.</p><p> </p><p> Bryan? Took most of a year to actually accomplish something, proving himself incapable of something everyone knows Cena would've managed to pull off in 1 night.</p><p> </p><p> Shield gets to it's hottest point? Time to break them up before the rest of the world realizes how amazing they are and begins to Believe In The Shield.</p><p> </p><p> After Summer Slam, you think they're going to continue to build these guys, now? It's not going to happen, because the three men alone are never going to reach levels The Shield did, and as soon as one of them does, WWE will be quick to snub that fire out. No one can ever be seen on Cena's level.</p><p> </p><p> They'll make some garbage merch, claim they're not making enough money, and be midcard acts by next summer.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You say that three men alone cant get to the heights that The Shield have but you just named two guys who did in Punk/DB.</p><p> </p><p> They're not that over yet just based on raw crowd reaction, although they do get pretty good reactions right now. With Batista gone this is a shake up that was needed as the feud would've gotten repetitive without it. We're still three months until Summerslam and the rumored HHH/Reigns, and two PPVs away, that gives WWE time to get mileage out of Evolution/Shield Handicap or Orton/Rollins vs Ambrose/Reigns to make it fair, maybe one at MITB and the other at the July PPV.</p><p> </p><p> Even having someone like Sheamus join Evolution (although I would like to see it) would've given us two more 3 vs 3 matches that The Shield have been doing for almost two years straight. Even if all three dont shoot up to the ME I think this was a necessary move as it had to happen either sooner or later and with the depleted roster you cant really argue for later.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>It's simply not efficient to keep a group of 3 surefire main eventers together after they've ran the entire roster at this point</p><p> </p><p>

We just saw how weak the card was in the event that a top guy (Bryan) was hurt and they had to have 6 guys in a single match because the Shield aren't over as individuals to headline. Right now is just as good of a time as ever to start building these guys (Reigns first) to be able to carry a show in a singles role. Of course there is money left on the table doing it like this, but there is much more money having each of the Shield in different matches up and down cards for the foreseeable future.</p><p> </p><p>

People also think this will have Ambrose lost in the shuffle but he's going to have a wealth of promo content now and he's as good as anyone on the mic these days as well. Most people didn't even expect Shield to be booked strongly for 6 months, and they had 18 near perfectly booked months together so I have enough confidence in where they go from here.</p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's simply not efficient to keep a group of 3 surefire main eventers together after they've ran the entire roster at this point<p> </p><p> We just saw how weak the card was in the event that a top guy (Bryan) was hurt and they had to have 6 guys in a single match because the Shield aren't over as individuals to headline. Right now is just as good of a time as ever to start building these guys (Reigns first) to be able to carry a show in a singles role. Of course there is money left on the table doing it like this, but there is much more money having each of the Shield in different matches up and down cards for the foreseeable future.</p><p> </p><p> People also think this will have Ambrose lost in the shuffle but he's going to have a wealth of promo content now and he's as good as anyone on the mic these days as well. Most people didn't even expect Shield to be booked strongly for 6 months, and they had 18 near perfectly booked months together so I have enough confidence in where they go from here.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> See, I would've had the Shield members want to stand and fight on their own, to prove they're every bit as good in singles competition as they are as a unit. There would've been no betrayal, but 3 singles guys who happen to be allied together. They don't come down during each other's matches. They don't help each other win. They promo together with each discussing what they need to, but they never become involved in each other's business unless someone tries to stack the deck.</p><p> </p><p> Then you deal with The Shield, and you don't wanna do that.</p><p> </p><p> Shield is still there, and able to make money. All 3 guys can be raised as singles guys without having to switch from something that is working AMAZING for all 3 into something that 2 will likely fail at.</p><p> </p><p> Ambrose is gonna be a mid carder this way, and Rollins is now fourth(fifth if you count Steph) string in a glorified jobber group.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>I agree I would have loved to see them still together but have individual feuds like the Horsemen or even Evolution did back in the day but either way who would they feud with? Batista comes and goes and HHH already is winding down his career. They could do Wyatt again but it'll eventually become Shield vs Family part 7. There are no other heels on the roster so taking one of them and making them into a top heel is ideal at this stage.</p><p> </p><p>

Before yesterday their top 4 heels were HHH, Brock, Batista, and Orton...that is a huge problem. Rollins is far from a jobber in the group and dare I say he's been booked stronger than Orton even as a wrestler. It's not going to be like when Rhodes and DiBiase took lumps from Orton's opponents every week back in the day because HHH isnt wrestling every PPV so Rollins will at least be in those positions. What happens to him after Reigns goes over him on his path to HHH is in the air, but even in defeat he is good enough and will look strong enough to come out of it better</p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree I would have loved to see them still together but have individual feuds like the Horsemen or even Evolution did back in the day but either way who would they feud with? Batista comes and goes and HHH already is winding down his career. They could do Wyatt again but it'll eventually become Shield vs Family part 7. There are no other heels on the roster so taking one of them and making them into a top heel is ideal at this stage.<p> </p><p> Before yesterday their top 4 heels were HHH, Brock, Batista, and Orton...that is a huge problem</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That problem's easy to solve.</p><p> </p><p> Have Cena actually put someone over for a f'n change. Heel made.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

Yeah but at this point that might as well be fantasy booking

[Rone Rivendale]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That problem's easy to solve.<p> </p><p> Have Cena actually put someone over for a f'n change. Heel made.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Cena put Wyatt over for months, beating him in 1 match doesn't delete the heat. Wyatt is still the most interesting guy on the whole roster.</p><p> </p><p> Also:</p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Lana & Rusev - I'll watch any segment with Lana in it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> THIS. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah but at this point that might as well be fantasy booking</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If I'd had Payback to set up for this, turn Cody heel at Payback.</p><p> </p><p> Cody vs. Rollins. Would make for some really solid matches, and elevate Cody as well, which is seriously long over due. Cody avoids Goldust during this, gets some momentum going again with good performances here, and can later feud with Goldust and retire him.</p><p> </p><p> Wyatt vs. Lunatic Ambrose. Promo gold.</p><p> </p><p> Authority vs. Reigns. Take advantage of the new found "We want to prove ourselves as singles" bit, don't try to team up on Reigns so they don't have to deal with The Shield. Orton first, Kane second, Trips as Summer Slam. All three should be able to help Reigns a lot in developing singles skills, and we still get the same end result.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Either way I assume 2/3 would have been in the MITB match since they are young and bigger names than 95% of the roster while allowing Cena and Orton to bow out of the match this year and save their bodies if need be. That's why I wasnt so sure about a turn right after payback</p><p> </p><p>

In a dream world Ambrose would have won MITB, eventually proclaim himself too good and leave the group while likely facing Rollins at SS. Reigns wins the strap at WM to set them to feud during next summer easily whether him and Rollins are done by then or not, perhaps Reigns/Rollins final 2 of the rumble.</p><p> </p><p>

But that's all fantasy stuff</p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Either way I assume 2/3 would have been in the MITB match since they are young and bigger names than 95% of the roster while allowing Cena and Orton to bow out of the match this year and save their bodies if need be. That's why I wasnt so sure about a turn right after payback<p> </p><p> In a dream world Ambrose would have won MITB, eventually proclaim himself too good and leave the group while likely facing Rollins at SS. Reigns wins the strap at WM to set them to feud during next summer easily whether him and Rollins are done by then or not, perhaps Reigns/Rollins final 2 of the rumble.</p><p> </p><p> But that's all fantasy stuff</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Way it's looking, Cena's winning MITB for the title, and holding it until Summer Slam. Praying Bryan makes some miracle recovery. Really don't want another Cena title run right now. That's a giant leap backwards, but there's no other face that can carry the company until Summer Slam.</p><p> </p><p> Plus, no MITB winner running around to build up the question of when and how it'll be cashed in means no one new stepping into the main event scene. Would be a shame.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>If Bryan does have to miss the PPV yet again they'll have to do some shuffling to get really big names into the match (outside of f***ing ADR...seriously?) otherwise the title will look weak with a bunch of midcarders going for it and 1 main eventer who will probably win</p><p> </p><p>

Actually that wouldn't be a bad time to give the title to Wyatt despite his loss to Cena. The Wyatt/Bryan return feud was something I assumed was going to happen during his title reign anyways and since it's a multiman match it doesnt matter that he just lost on PPV</p>

[OctoberRaven]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Have Cena actually put someone over for a f'n change.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He always puts people over.</p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>He always puts people over.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Cena buries people better on the stick than Brock could in the ring if he decided to just shoot on everyone. Dude no sells everything about feuds he's in and mocks everyone. Nothing is ever serious, so no one he's working against is ever taken serious by that small group who chant "Lets go Cena!"</p><p> </p><p> Time has made it very obvious that that small group of the crowd are the _only_ ones who matter in WWE.</p>

[Mammoth]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Cena buries people better on the stick than Brock could in the ring if he decided to just shoot on everyone. Dude no sells everything about feuds he's in and mocks everyone. Nothing is ever serious, so no one he's working against is ever taken serious by that small group who chant "Lets go Cena!"<p> </p><p> Time has made it very obvious that that small group of the crowd are the _only_ ones who matter in WWE.</p></div></blockquote><p> I don't think it's a case of "no selling" in the same vein as The Ultimate Warrior who was so egotistical in his prime that he flatly refused, I just don't think he's very good at it. This is always something that bothers me, because I think there is a very distinct line between the people who give it a go and they're just not good enough actors/sellers to portray it to a crowd, and those that genuinely don't even try to sell. It's funny, I actually think Cena's selling ability would be on par with a lot of guys maybe even as close as a decade ago (especially in the 'E) it's just that the WWE audience are used to Evan Bourne, Dolph Ziggler, Kofi Kingston etcetera now who <em>really</em> know how to sell. I also don't think you can count "mocking everyone" as a negative either because it's just part of his gimmick. Nobody ever questioned The Rock or Chris Jericho in their heyday and almost %90 of their promos were basically just mocking their opponents into oblivion.</p>

[ThatChizzle]

<p>"Small group" that chant "Lets go Cena"?? Have you ever been to events? The group that chant for Cena is mostly women and kids. The people that chant "Cena Sucks" is mainly men. Men shout louder than women and kids, so it appears on TV that it is one sided. And yes, due to WWE being PG, the Kids are the main group it is intended.</p><p>

This is exactly how the WWF was run in the 80's/early 90's mainly due to the fact that Vince McMahon makes a load of cash selling toys to the kids. Adult Men don't buy action figures, simple as that. During the Attitude Era, it was harder to sell toys, when parents didn't want their kids to watch. If Vince McMahon ever moves back to another "Attitude Era", that will be when you see John Cena turn heel.</p>

[RayW]

<p>Why does Cena always get the blame when he beats someone? Cena didn't put Bray over, so that is Cena's fault? I didn't realise he booked the shows.</p><p> </p><p>

Seriously, it takes a really ignorant view to assume that Cena is the evil incarnate and that he isn't over. When he stops being the number one mover in merchandise that's when the WWE's interest will start to fade, but until then expect him to be at the very top, winning feuds, and getting a lot of air time.</p><p> </p><p>

That is what the majority of fans want to see, evident by merchandise sales. A common misconception is that the WWE fan base is made up with a majority of "smarks" or "the IWC", it isn't. Your run of the mill independent promotion may be, but not the WWE. The majority of WWE fans are casuals or true marks who cheer the faces and boo the heels. They want Cena.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, Cena is doing nothing that hasn't already been done. Austin lost only a handful of matches to up and coming stars in his run in the WWE from 1998/99 onwards, and walked out on the company when they wanted him to put Lesnar over, but he is a damned God to most. The Rock would mock, mock and mock some more, he was never serious, he was always making juvenile jokes about his opponents and asking if they "like pie", yet he is a damned God to most. Why was it ok for them, but not for Cena? This "I don't like Cena because it's cool to not like him" shtick has got real old lately. He's not even been on the true focus of the shows since the unification match with Orton, yet everyone stills continues to whine about him.</p><p> </p><p>

Oh no, Cena beat Bray, this must mean Bray's career is over, and was totally buried, right? Ok.</p>

[iruleall15]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RayW" data-cite="RayW" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why does Cena always get the blame when he beats someone? Cena didn't put Bray over, so that is Cena's fault? I didn't realise he booked the shows.<p> </p><p> Seriously, it takes a really ignorant view to assume that Cena is the evil incarnate and that he isn't over. When he stops being the number one mover in merchandise that's when the WWE's interest will start to fade, but until then expect him to be at the very top, winning feuds, and getting a lot of air time.</p><p> </p><p> That is what the majority of fans want to see, evident by merchandise sales. A common misconception is that the WWE fan base is made up with a majority of "smarks" or "the IWC", it isn't. Your run of the mill independent promotion may be, but not the WWE. The majority of WWE fans are casuals or true marks who cheer the faces and boo the heels. They want Cena.</p><p> </p><p> Also, Cena is doing nothing that hasn't already been done. Austin lost only a handful of matches to up and coming stars in his run in the WWE from 1998/99 onwards, and walked out on the company when they wanted him to put Lesnar over, but he is a damned God to most. The Rock would mock, mock and mock some more, he was never serious, he was always making juvenile jokes about his opponents and asking if they "like pie", yet he is a damned God to most. Why was it ok for them, but not for Cena? This "I don't like Cena because it's cool to not like him" shtick has got real old lately. He's not even been on the true focus of the shows since the unification match with Orton, yet everyone stills continues to whine about him.</p><p> </p><p> Oh no, Cena beat Bray, this must mean Bray's career is over, and was totally buried, right? Ok.</p></div></blockquote> The difference wit Austin is that he is actually entertaining in Hus promos. Cena has fine the same belittling for years that doesn't help a feud and only hurts his oppt. Also get your facts right on the Austin Lesnar thing. Austin didn't want to have that match on a round one. He wanted it on PPV since they were both the top guys. Cena has put over one man clean in how many years? That's pathetic. DB is the only one to beat Cena clean in aong time. Even Punk at MITB had VKM and Johnny Ace there as a distraction. Your D riding of Cena is sad. You defend him when he doesn't deserve it. You don't think Cena calls the shots for himself? What happened to Alex Riley's push after his backstage thing with Cena? Why have numerous people spoken out against him after they leave WWE? Cena is a company bitch who will do anything to stay on top.

[Jaysin]

Austin didn't want to put Lesnar over because he was told he wouldn't get his win back later. Also, he was supposed to put over the nWo and refused. You completely ignored that the Rock no sold every opponent he had the same way Cena does. There's a difference between riding someone's jock and making a valid point. I don't like Cena, but to act like he's the only face of the company to be treated this way is ridiculous.

 

The big difference nowadays is people read internet dirt sheets and think they know something about the business and they know it better than people who have been in the industry for decades.