The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

Aries has been cordial towards WWE and it's fans so far... unlike El Patron.

[CQI13]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Aries has been cordial towards WWE and it's fans so far... unlike El Patron.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> WWE, the schedule, and whatever else they deal with (backstage, writers, etc) isn't for everyone. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe he's not happy in the company. Whatever the case, that's probably the way to do things - ask for your release and be cordial. Same thing with James Storm. Not the right time, he said, but seemingly the door is open.</p>

[milamber]

The Kurt Angle reveal was pretty well executed but I couldn't stop laughing the entire time.

 

RIP yet another tag team.

 

The main event was good. Braun is awesome.

[jjohns44]

I feel like they had to do a last minute rewrite because of Bischoff's interview where he let the plan slip. It didnt seem like they were making out that it would ruin him.

[Mootinie]

I feel like they had to do a last minute rewrite because of Bischoff's interview where he let the plan slip. It didnt seem like they were making out that it would ruin him.

I don't think that's the case for a number of reasons. Dave Meltzer has been letting their plans slip for years, he told all his readers what the penciled-in WrestleMania card was in January and none of their plans changed. WWE don't counter-program, they are stubborn to an hilarious degree (see: Roman Reigns). When TNA was running head-to-head against them, they made no effort to book anything around what TNA was booking that night. It meant that sometimes TNA's most important segments were running against six-diva tag team matches.

 

Eric Bischoff was likely just putting 2 and 2 together. Dixie appeared on a Network exclusive last week and RAW was in her hometown of Nashville this week. Another reason that I think this was pre-planned was Chad Gable's singles appearance two weeks ago. He categorically denied American Alpha were splitting back then and has today issued a statement about how much of a best friend Jason Jordan is. The first move was to throw fans off JJ's scent, the second move was clearly written and planned in advance of them running this angle.

 

Good for Jason Jordan, by the way. He's worked bloody hard and made great strides. He deserves all the success he gets.

[smurphy1014]

<p>I think this ends with Jordan saying he made it all up to boost his career, which makes sense (story wise). AA gets called up and wins the SDL tag titles. They drop them to the Usos and fall behind the New Day, Breezango, Hype Bros, Colons and Ascension in terms of TV time. Jordan sees that AA is being forgotten and decides to "float" the rumor to Graves. </p><p> </p><p>

Gable's left to flourish on SDL and if done right the WWE could elevate both Jordan <strong>and</strong> Gable by the time this is over.</p>

[Warhawk8492]

I am thinking Jason Jordan will be IC Champ by the end of the year.

[Jaysin]

I have this theory that Corey Graves is the mastermind behind Cass turning on Enzo and this Jordan ordeal.

 

I mean in a kayfabe sense.

 

In my theory Graves is manipulating people in order to set it up for him to be a GM down the line.

[smurphy1014]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have this theory that Corey Graves is the mastermind behind Cass turning on Enzo and this Jordan ordeal.<p> </p><p> I mean in a kayfabe sense.</p><p> </p><p> In my theory Graves is manipulating people in order to set it up for him to be a GM down the line.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He tries to show Angle is "unfit" for the job all the while manipulating his way into the job. I like it.</p>

[Mootinie]

I have this theory that Corey Graves is the mastermind behind Cass turning on Enzo and this Jordan ordeal.

 

I mean in a kayfabe sense.

 

In my theory Graves is manipulating people in order to set it up for him to be a GM down the line.

I like the idea of Graves getting in from underneath but I'm tired of non-wrestling personalities that deserve comeuppance. I have seen enough evil authority figures in my wrestling to last me a lifetime.

[Rone Rivendale]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I like the idea of Graves getting in from underneath but I'm tired of non-wrestling personalities that deserve comeuppance. I have seen enough evil authority figures in my wrestling to last me a lifetime.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree but Graves could make it work. He has way more charisma than most GMs we've seen.</p>

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I like the idea of Graves getting in from underneath but I'm tired of non-wrestling personalities that deserve comeuppance. I have seen enough evil authority figures in my wrestling to last me a lifetime.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I know Corey is retired and everything but I'm pretty sure he could do a part time role if the story called for it....maybe that is what it could possibly result in.</p>

[codey_v2]

Problem is Graves is retired due to concussions. No way WWE would ever put him in a contact role.

[milamber]

Melbourne City Wrestling Documentary on Evie (Dakota Kai) in the lead up to her last match before she signed for NXT. Reminds of WWE's Finn Balor and Roderick Strong documentaries. I hope she goes far in the Mae Young Classic.

 

[Russelrules44]

Overall thoughts on Battleground: Well, that could have gone better...but it could have gone a lot worse.

[Warhawk8492]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Russelrules44" data-cite="Russelrules44" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Overall thoughts on Battleground: Well, that could have gone better...but it could have gone a lot worse.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Battleground was not bad but not great.</p>

[milamber]

<p><strong>Battleground:</strong></p><p> </p><p>

<strong>New Day vs Usos</strong> - Good match. 2 experienced tag teams with strong chemistry.</p><p>

<strong>Nakamura vs Corbin</strong> - Solid match. Hopefully Nakamura faces someone he can have a classic with at SummerSlam.</p><p>

<strong>Women's 5-Way</strong> - OK match but it slowed down too much when Lana & Tamina were in the ring. Lana shouldn't even have been in it. I'm OK with Natalya winning because she's capable of good matches. Carmella will probably cash in at SummerSlam anyway and Charlotte & Becky can destroy Lana & Tamina on the pre-show.</p><p>

<strong>Owens vs Styles</strong> - Solid match with a weird finish. I saw AJ's shoulder was up out of view of the referee on a rewatch but it wasn't obvious at first glance.</p><p>

<strong>Rusev vs Cena</strong> - I was short on time so I skipped most of the match. Should have called the PPV WWE: Independence Day with its lazy US vs Foreigner booking. These guys deserve better.</p><p>

<strong>Kanellis vs Zayn</strong> - Solid match.</p><p>

<strong>Mahal vs Orton</strong> - Good match. Punjabi Prison is much better than a Steel Cage because it takes more effort to escape. Could have done with an overhead cam, though. Sami Singh took a great bump.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Verdict:</strong> One of the worst PPVs this year. Everything between the opener and main event was skippable.</p>

[AceCodey]

<div style="text-align:center;"><p><span style="font-size:24px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span style="font-family:Garamond;">Battleground Review</span></span></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size:24px;"><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></span></p></div><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The New Day vs. The Usos</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">Comfortably a Match of the Night Contender. Was surprising to see Xavier Woods as Kofi's partner instead of Big E, but the match didn't really suffer as a result, a testament to the versatility of New Day's members. My only major criticism is that there was blatant cheating taking place in front of the referee. During the early minutes The Usos did the classic heel team thing where the illegal partner cheap-shots the babyface...but the referee saw everything. Most of the time the referee is meant to be distracted because this is DQ or at least worthy of a warning, but I guess not? Anyway, New Day get the win in what was a good opener, I'm looking forward to the rematch, especially considering the only alternative is New Day versus Ascension. Ha. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Baron Corbin</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">A solid enough match, but this didn't belong on a PPV / Network special. I'm not convinced by Baron Corbin really, he still needs work if he's going to become a decent WWE Champion. The match wasn't bad by any means, but nothing special. Nakamura gets a DQ victory after Corbin low-blows him, probably setting up another match for later. If they build this better and perhaps go for something like a Falls Count Anywhere stipulation this could be much better at SummerSlam. </span></span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Women's Five Way</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">This was slightly better than I expected. SmackDown's Women's Division is really weak so it was nice to see Natalya actually get the win here, WWE attempting to salvage her after the last few years of destroying her credibility. Lana and Tamina continued their alliance of sorts, but I must say it was weird to see the big bad Tamina tapping out to the Disarmer in far less time than it took to get Lana to tap. Becky then tapped out Lana before being immediately rolled up by Nattie, who went on to defeat Charlotte to win her shot. Naomi offered her a handshake, which she rejected. Overall not bad, but probably the weakest or second weakest of the night. </span></span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">AJ Styles vs. Kevin Owens</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">The only match tonight that genuinely annoyed me, which is a shame because in terms of the in-ring work it was a very good match. Owens and AJ are two of the best workers in the company so that's obviously no surprise. And then the finish happened. The referee was knocked out after Owens threw AJ into him, and from there the two traded submissions, AJ locking in the Calf Crusher, then Owens countering into a Crossface, then AJ countered with one of his own. The referee finally woke up and immediately saw Owens roll AJ into a pinning predicament while still locked in the Crossface, with Owens getting the 3-count. This was a horrible, horrible finish. Firstly, I don't know why the ref-bump happened because it doesn't influence the finish at all. Secondly, how did AJ allow himself to get pinned? All he had to do was release the Crossface and he'd be fine. He then started arguing with the referee as if something illegal happened when in reality he just got pinned. Finally, switching the title to Owens so soon after AJ won it was pretty dumb. Good match but the finish tainted it. </span></span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">John Cena vs. Rusev</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">I didn't watch this. Cena won. Woo. 'Murica. </span></span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Sami Zayn vs. Mike Kanellis</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">Yet again this match didn't belong on PPV, especially after these two fought just under a week ago. Sami murdered Mike for the first few minutes until a Maria distraction allowed Mike to connect with one of his admittedly great punches. Mike dominated for a bit until Sami fired up, made his comeback and eventually hit the Helluva Kick. A retread of their SmackDown match, not all that interesting. </span></span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p><div style="text-align:left;"><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Randy Orton vs. Jinder Mahal</span></strong></span></span></p></div><p></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"><span style="font-size:12px;">The greatest Punjabi Prison match ever. </span></span><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Garamond;">

</span></p>

[Blackman]

<p>This was a weak PPV in general. Skippable stuff indeed. They tried to tell a bit of a story but failed in most attempts. I'd say don't waste your time on it (though I kinda watched with it running on the background).</p><p> </p><p>

But I guess the "perfect show" theory also applies to PPV's on a yearly basis. GBoF was good, and I assume Summerslam will be too. It can't all be amazing.</p>

[Rayelek]

Battleground was really "meh" to me, but when it has to come between the barnstormer that was Great Balls of Fire and Big 4 member Summerslam, it needs to be pretty stellar to stand out. I feel like Smackdown is telling better stories right now (Nakamura/Corbin, AJ/Owens (though the ending was bad), Jinder & co., etc) but Raw is really making the big events worth seeing. I think Orton filling the "top babyface"/"face of the show" role on Smackdown hurts it a lot.

[milamber]

<p>Raw was solid and Smackdown bounced back after some lame shows.</p><p> </p><p>

Also the 1st episode of Bryan & Renee's Smacking Talk, featuring Chad Gable and a paternity test:

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedOther">

<iframe data-embedid="820af6815c36b8cf166720c46dbfc009" allowfullscreen="" data-embed-src="<___base_url___>/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://twitter.com/WWEDanielBryan/status/890031803452600320"></iframe>

</div>

[crownsy]

so after the events of last night, with Jericho getting an emergency call in to swap the title back without Owens taking a pin fall, we have confirmation that the Ref and Talent botched the finish at Battleground in AJ-Owens right?

 

I wonder if AJ arguing with the Ref was a semi-Shoot, and he was ticked the Ref was out of position to watch him role the shoulder up and counted 3. I could see that ticking off the guys, if the Ref counted a false finish.

[Dawn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>so after the events of last night, with Jericho getting an emergency call in to swap the title back without Owens taking a pin fall, we have confirmation that the Ref and Talent botched the finish at Battleground in AJ-Owens right?<p> </p><p> I wonder if AJ arguing with the Ref was a semi-Shoot, and he was ticked the Ref was out of position to watch him role the shoulder up and counted 3. I could see that ticking off the guys, if the Ref counted a false finish.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nah, Vince changed the finish during the PPV, that was what made the ending so confusing.</p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://nodq.com/news/502995893.shtml" rel="external nofollow">http://nodq.com/news/502995893.shtml</a></p>

[Mootinie]

It was a botched finish. Styles got his shoulder up before the three but the ref was in the wrong position and counted it down. Styles was furious, shouted at the referee, kicked the ring steps, was still in the ring as production staff were putting up the poles for the flag match. Then Rusev had to scurry up the ramp after his entrance and grab the Bulgaria flag, which wouldn't happen ordinarily because Vince crosses the t's and dots the i's. There's no way Rusev or the production staff would get that little nugget wrong unless something had gone awry.

[Derek B]

I think Mootinie has it right... watching it at the time, AJ's shoulder was never really down on the camera side, with the referee on the other side. The referee is there to call the action as he sees it and AJ obviously knows where his shoulders are as he's a talented, veteran wrestler. The blame seems to fall squarely on the referee for that one, and the lack of focus on the finish (via replays) seems to indicate that the finish wasn't what was meant to happen AND the lack of focus on the competitors seems to indicate that they were in a situation that wasn't meant to be.

 

Vince can easily save face for the company making a mistake by taking the blame on himself (cos we would all easily believe he made a last minute change), and the title switch back to AJ through Chris Jericho ended up being a cool surprise. But something clearly didn't go to plan and things were definitely rushed on the live PPV. My notes on it for the "booking WWE just like real life... FOR SCIENCE!" diary I'm writing even had a "referee mistake?" note added originally because it was so clearly a bad call. In the end, since WWE haven't acknowledged that I changed it to a Flash Pinfall to reflect the out of nowhere ending we got.

 

Even the best production teams in the world end up making mistakes, at least they covered it well enough that we don't know for sure.