The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[alden]

http://rajah.com/base/node/20671

 

fifty million well spent lol

[crownsy]

http://rajah.com/base/node/20671

 

fifty million well spent lol

 

I don't agree with her politics, but i applaud her for trying. I'm happy she lost, but I don't think she was a nutjob for trying to run for public office.

 

And really, to them, whats 50 million dollars at this point?

[crownsy]

Not so much a comment on the quality of the skit, which i though was meh at best, but I have to chuckle at people calling the Vinny Mac dream sequence corny/weird/not wrestling show material ect

 

Do you people remember the attitude era we were all so fond of? along with the edgier stuff, it had hundreds, if not thousands of goofy/weird skits like this.

 

This goes back to my theory that people blame the PG rating because it's an easy out. The difference between the attitude era and the PG era isn't the rating, it's the talent.

 

Aside from the fact that no one said a pg-13 swear word or made a high school sexual innuendo joke, that skit would have fit right in in a 1999 Raw, yet people hated it.

 

People miss Rock, Austin, Angle in his prime, Prime taker, Ect, not some magical glow that a PG-13 rating provided.

 

The problem is, with a few notable exceptions, the new generation just isn't as entertaining as the guys from the mid eighties - late nineties.

[haloed]

I watched Raw for the first time in a long time on Monday and I must say I was entertained and enjoyed pretty much the whole show. That's really all I want from pro wrestling, just to be entertained. The only thing I think that sticks out from Raw that I didn't like is easily Michael Cole.

[djthefunkchris]

Not so much a comment on the quality of the skit, which i though was meh at best, but I have to chuckle at people calling the Vinny Mac dream sequence corny/weird/not wrestling show material ect

 

Do you people remember the attitude era we were all so fond of? along with the edgier stuff, it had hundreds, if not thousands of goofy/weird skits like this.

 

This goes back to my theory that people blame the PG rating because it's an easy out. The difference between the attitude era and the PG era isn't the rating, it's the talent.

 

Aside from the fact that no one said a pg-13 swear word or made a high school sexual innuendo joke, that skit would have fit right in in a 1999 Raw, yet people hated it.

 

People miss Rock, Austin, Angle in his prime, Prime taker, Ect, not some magical glow that a PG-13 rating provided.

 

The problem is, with a few notable exceptions, the new generation just isn't as entertaining as the guys from the mid eighties - late nineties.

 

Most long term watcher's have too high of standards, to be able to enjoy the shows for what they are.

 

WWE was always about not "pretending" we don't know it's fake. They even have that notice at the beginning of their shows half the time, with John Cena or someone else saying something similar to "Although the superstars are not really competing, remember that the performance is done by professionals, and can cause serious injury. Please don't try this at home!"

 

I've said it before, if that doesn't tell you that they aren't trying to fool anyone, than I really don't know what would. It's been obvious they let the crowd in on the fact it's a show, and not real competition for like 20 years or more.

[Slagaholic]

I watched Raw for the first time in a long time on Monday and I must say I was entertained and enjoyed pretty much the whole show. That's really all I want from pro wrestling, just to be entertained. The only thing I think that sticks out from Raw that I didn't like is easily Michael Cole.

 

I feel a big problem with alotta people that bitch and moan about any wrestling show is that they go in to it not wanting to be entertained but to be impressed.

[alden]

I really did not mind the segment i guess. There was some good comedy *next you are going to tell me bryan danilson is the us champ* and the fifty million reaction was classic.

[BHK1978]

Am I the only one that hated the Attitude Era?

[dvdWarrior]

Am I the only one that hated the Attitude Era?

 

No, I wasn't too crazy about it myself. Too many impromptu matches, too much... attitude? I guess... DX tinkling on DOA's bikes does not a good wrestling show, make. For me anyway.

[BHK1978]

No, I wasn't too crazy about it myself. Too many impromptu matches, too much... attitude? I guess... DX tinkling on DOA's bikes does not a good wrestling show, make. For me anyway.

 

Well pretty much anything dealing with DX is going to get me to change the channel.

[20LEgend]

Am I the only one that hated the Attitude Era?

 

No, I wasn't too crazy about it myself. Too many impromptu matches, too much... attitude? I guess... DX tinkling on DOA's bikes does not a good wrestling show, make. For me anyway.

 

which era's did you guys like

[dvdWarrior]

I mainly loved WCW during the 1990s, (though I admit I did kinda switch over to the WWF in 2000 or so, when WCW absolutely just went to the dogs). I loved the 1980s NWA, and I very much loved the 1980s WWF as well.

[PeterHilton]

Honestly i would want to know how someone could "love" 1980s WWF or NWA for that matter.

 

How old were you?

 

Because the TV shows back then consisted of jobber squash match after jobber squash match and maybe - if you were lucky - you'd see two semi-midcarders face each other.

 

In WWF's case, the matches were slow, plodding, kick-kick-punch fests for the most part, and the ONLY time you saw a really big match were on SNME or if there was some supershow at MSG and they aired a few matches on USA Primetime a few days later. Or if you went to a house show. Angles and interviews were run weekly...but the true superstars like Hogan and Savage would barely be involved unless they had a big show coming up (with no real PPV schedule you could go literally weeks w/o seeing Hogan on TV).

 

And WCW was largely the same except the matches were slightly better and they had no MSG network so the only time you saw a great match was when TBS would run a Clash of the Champions.

 

The 80s had some great characters, but from the average fan's perspective, it sucked to watch wrestling. How many time do I need to see Dino Bravo beat 'Cowboy' Scott Casey? Nostalgia colors everyone's perspective, but give me main event matches every week, PPV "supershows" once a month, and Crash TV any day of the week.

[Stennick]

I just watched an episode of NWA's World Championship Wrestilng from 1987 and let me tell you it was AWFUL.

 

Everything people yell at TNA about happened in this show.

 

There was one non squash match a ten minute draw between Blanchard and Brad Armstrong.

 

JJ Dillon alone had SEVEN different interview segments on this show alone.

 

The Horesemen are in every other match and no lie had SEVEN or EIGHT different promos on one television show.

 

Seriously people complain about the nWo but they must not remember 1980's NWA because the Four Horesemen were the entire company up to that point.

 

They promoted a HUGE Barry Windham vs. ARn Anderson match for the main event only to change it to "White Lightning" Tim Horner vs. Arn Anderson and then Barry Windham interfered anyway as if to say "see he was here and could have wrestled but we didn't want to give this show away just promote like we were going to"

 

the commentary is awful, just a dreadful show all the way around.

 

The actual wrestling when it came together was great but as for television in the 80's it was horrible.

[PeterHilton]

Exactly my point...fans suffer from "good ol' days" syndrome.

 

Let's say you stuck a fan from today back in 1986 for instance..and he said "man this is awesome I love Randy Savage..can't wait to see him in his prime."

 

Your reply: "That's great. Randy is really hot right now so he's focusing on the house show circuit. he won't be on TV at all wrestling. He *might* run in to save some jobber from a guitar shot to pump up the feud he has going with Honky Tonk Man (for instance) ..and if you're REALLY lucky he's coming to an arena in your general vicinity so there will be a canned backstage interview with Macho segment stuck on that Saturday's edition of the WWF's syndicated prgram ...but unless you want to go buy tickets to the house show ...you won't actually see him on TV for about a month."

 

Yay!

[djthefunkchris]

Honestly i would want to know how someone could "love" 1980s WWF or NWA for that matter.

 

How old were you?

 

Because the TV shows back then consisted of jobber squash match after jobber squash match and maybe - if you were lucky - you'd see two semi-midcarders face each other.

 

In WWF's case, the matches were slow, plodding, kick-kick-punch fests for the most part, and the ONLY time you saw a really big match were on SNME or if there was some supershow at MSG and they aired a few matches on USA Primetime a few days later. Or if you went to a house show. Angles and interviews were run weekly...but the true superstars like Hogan and Savage would barely be involved unless they had a big show coming up (with no real PPV schedule you could go literally weeks w/o seeing Hogan on TV).

 

And WCW was largely the same except the matches were slightly better and they had no MSG network so the only time you saw a great match was when TBS would run a Clash of the Champions.

 

The 80s had some great characters, but from the average fan's perspective, it sucked to watch wrestling. How many time do I need to see Dino Bravo beat 'Cowboy' Scott Casey? Nostalgia colors everyone's perspective, but give me main event matches every week, PPV "supershows" once a month, and Crash TV any day of the week.

 

Before PVP's become so popular, we did get to see great match-ups. The thing is, there was more focus on alot of different worker's. The 1980's to me was alot better then "attitude" era, but perhaps it has to do with my age as well... Most people that liked the attitude era so much were around the same age I was during the 80's (High School, etc.).

 

I've said that before. I think when you were really introduced to wrestling is going to be the time you loved it the most. My dad watched WWE with me one night, and Lita had the ref's attention while the other wrestler did an illegal move (Edge), and the ref turns in time to do the three count. My dad says "This is the same crap it was when I used to watch it" and bassically he called what was going to happen before it did. "She's going to distract the ref, now he's going to cheat, ha. Crap, total crap!" He watched it in the 60 - 70s era.

 

These "Squash Match's" that you bring up... You have to realise that it was actually a good thing, not a bad thing. You could watch someone like Piper take out a guy in no time flat, and sometimes he was actually flashy with them. The thing is, we didn't know they were "Jobbers"... We just thought of them as up and comer's, or people that were looking for a shot. Once in a while that so called "Jobber" would win, and when that happened, it would really make someone take notice of the Jobber, and they would then come out and become something else... and sometimes they would call it the "Biggest fluke ever!" You would think "Wow! Who is this guy?" And on and on it would go.

 

The biggest pluss to that is... When you have a squash or jobber match, you have the guy that's not the Jobber able to stick out greater. He's in the ring, he's on the sideline getting interviewed before, after, or both, etc. He's the one getting all the attention, and you get to know him better each time he beats a jobber. In other words, it's alot more focused on the ONE person, rather then on both of the competitor's at once.

 

One of the things that really hurts wrestling right now, I believe, is that they cannot take the time to create character's that everyone gets to know, and keep the other characters relevant at the same time.

 

Each show was different back then. One show Hogan might be on, another the Sheik, etc. There was alway's a different focus each week, not the same focus every week like there is now. That's why the shows are 2 hours instead of 1 now, I guess... Too many people to focus on.

[PeterHilton]

chris, your post is incredibly patronizing. I'm not stupid.

 

I'm 34. I was old enough in the 80s to have watched the WWF regularly. I know what the purpose of jobber matches are..it doesn't make them good or any better that they "served a purpose."

 

Fans don't want to watch that crap, which is exactly why WCW caught fire when they went AWAY from that format.

 

Don't try to sell me on a show full of jobber matches. I'm not buying.

 

As for your "different focus" argument: I don't know what you mean other than they slowed down the pace of storytelling. Well guess what? That's exactly what the WWE is doing now, which is why we get to see feuds that last 3-4 PPVs before they are settled.

 

If anything, the storytelling of the current product is closer to the 80s than ever before..which is why it's turned off a lot of the younger fans who grew up on the Attitude Era.

[BHK1978]

There are still squash matches going on today. Yes today's jobbers are not like Barry Horowitz or Pez Whatley in that today's jobbers win. However, if you see a match between Goldust and John Cena, you know the outcome before it happens.

[djthefunkchris]

chris, your post is incredibly patronizing. I'm not stupid.

 

I'm 34. I was old enough in the 80s to have watched the WWF regularly. I know what the purpose of jobber matches are..it doesn't make them good or any better that they "served a purpose."

 

Fans don't want to watch that crap, which is exactly why WCW caught fire when they went AWAY from that format.

 

Don't try to sell me on a show full of jobber matches. I'm not buying.

 

As for your "different focus" argument: I don't know what you mean other than they slowed down the pace of storytelling. Well guess what? That's exactly what the WWE is doing now, which is why we get to see feuds that last 3-4 PPVs before they are settled.

 

If anything, the storytelling of the current product is closer to the 80s than ever before..which is why it's turned off a lot of the younger fans who grew up on the Attitude Era.

 

Might be why I'm actually enjoying it moreso now, then a couple of years ago.

 

I'm not trying to be patronizing to you.... not even a little bit. But looking back and watching is totally different then going to your friends house, or having friends over to watch wrestling, and going watching it just as people did with the attitude era (getting together watching it, watching it at bars/clubs, etc.). We did all that back then. Your 10 years younger then me, so of course your going to think more highly of the next decade, when you did all those things. Neither one of us are going to be happy with today's product, no matter what happens really... We will always remember "when" it was OUR wrestling.

 

Your a bit above what I'm talking about, but we are all effected with this sort of thing. Songs that you will remember for the rest of you life, that you can put with a great or bad part of your life, will always hold a special place no matter how old they get. It's just the way of the world/same 'ol song, etc.

 

No matter how many article's a person writes, grammies they win, notoriaty and fame a person has in their life, these things will always hold true. We are all products of our environment, and really nothing is going to make you forget the parts of your life that determined the kind of person you become... good or bad.

 

Not to say people can't change, I'm talking on a general note here. If I grew up watching the "A-Team" or "Dukes of Hazzard", I'm not going to think the movies were any good in comparison... Unless they are 10 times better.

[BHK1978]

Well I did not see the A-Team but The Dukes of Hazzard was a high pile of dog crap and the only thing good about it was Jessica Simpson in short shorts. So yes in that case the TV wins...

[LordJaguar]

Well I did not see the A-Team but The Dukes of Hazzard was a high pile of dog crap and the only thing good about it was Jessica Simpson in short shorts. So yes in that case the TV wins...

 

Am I the only one who like Dukes? The damn Broken Lizard Super Trooper scene was effin HIGH larious!

[PeterHilton]

There are still squash matches going on today. Yes today's jobbers are not like Barry Horowitz or Pez Whatley in that today's jobbers win. However, if you see a match between Goldust and John Cena, you know the outcome before it happens.

 

I'm not saying there aren't squash matches. I'm saying that you couldn't get fans now to sit through a show full of them, which is what 80s TV shows were for the most part

 

Might be why I'm actually enjoying it moreso now, then a couple of years ago.

 

I'm not trying to be patronizing to you.... not even a little bit. But looking back and watching is totally different then going to your friends house, or having friends over to watch wrestling, and going watching it just as people did with the attitude era (getting together watching it, watching it at bars/clubs, etc.). We did all that back then. Your 10 years younger then me, so of course your going to think more highly of the next decade, when you did all those things. Neither one of us are going to be happy with today's product, no matter what happens really... We will always remember "when" it was OUR wrestling.

 

Your a bit above what I'm talking about, but we are all effected with this sort of thing. Songs that you will remember for the rest of you life, that you can put with a great or bad part of your life, will always hold a special place no matter how old they get. It's just the way of the world/same 'ol song, etc.

 

No matter how many article's a person writes, grammies they win, notoriaty and fame a person has in their life, these things will always hold true. We are all products of our environment, and really nothing is going to make you forget the parts of your life that determined the kind of person you become... good or bad.

 

Not to say people can't change, I'm talking on a general note here. If I grew up watching the "A-Team" or "Dukes of Hazzard", I'm not going to think the movies were any good in comparison... Unless they are 10 times better.

 

Thanks. You just explained "nostalgia" for everyone who didn't know what that was.

 

I think all fans of al sports do the whole "it was better when i was young" thing

 

I just think it's more justified or fair with wrestling -specifically the WWE- because the WWE actually did change their product and change their presentation: A generation of fans grew up on one kind of show and WWE went out of their way and made a business decision to go a different direction.

 

Actually, now that I think about it..they did it twice.

 

80s fans grew up and didn't really like the Attitude Era because it was radically different. And then those Attitude fans grew up and complain about the product now, because it's radically different.

 

So while it's true that people will tend to prefer what they grew up on, it's also not entirely their fault that the company they grew up watching decided to change what they were doing.

 

EDIT: But back to what I was saying..wrestling TV in the 80s was balls. No matter how old you are.

[djthefunkchris]

There are still squash matches going on today. Yes today's jobbers are not like Barry Horowitz or Pez Whatley in that today's jobbers win. However, if you see a match between Goldust and John Cena, you know the outcome before it happens.

 

My whole point was that they could concentrate higher on one thing at a time, then they can right now. With the "Jobber" in place as the opponant, who else are you going to be interested in?

 

Remember, these things I'm talking about were DURING the territorial times, and before the first Wrestlemania. When I say something like that last sentence, that's not me being patronizing, I'm just trying to set the mood.... The time's back then wasn't as focused on TV ratings and who put on the best show, but on the wrestler's themselves.

 

For example... You didn't see everyone going "Crocket" "Crocket" or "WWWF" "WWWF"! They chanted Names "SNUKA!" "SNUKA!". They might not know his opponant, but by god they come to see Snuka! That's part of my point about focus. You would see Mean Jean interview a star, and you would get a good idea if you liked that star or not. You didn't see him interview the jobber (Gold-Dust in the example above).

 

Even after re-reading both of these posts, I don't feel like I'm conveying the message I'm trying to convey. Go ahead and dismiss it if you must, but there is something I'm trying to say that I'm just for some reason unable to get accross.

[PeterHilton]

No offense, chris, but the world has moved on from a time when TV ratings didn't matter and no one cared about putting on a good show. You might as well be talking about the Jurassic Era.

 

Anything before the first WM is almost completely irrelevant to wrestling today.

 

Same reason why I never want to hear people talk about people from before 1979 as 'the greatest wrestler ever'...it's not even the same thing.

[LordJaguar]

Can't we put on a "good" show here people care about the stars and not if they face other stars? WCW may have been killed by the NWO storyline but at it's height it did an entire NWO PPV where there was 1 match that had both sides with stars. A lot of the NWO matches were against "jobbers" even if they were sold as "legitamit" opponents.