The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Fantabulous]

Because the majority of wrestling fans haven't seen Angle since 2006, while Christian has just been heavily involved in a World Title feud for Wrestlemania that has seen him appear on the two biggest weekly wrestling shows?

 

It's almost a running joke but it's true; whenever former WWE wrestlers have gone to TNA and then run into fans, they'll almost invariably get asked why they're not wrestling any more or what they've been up to. Right now, Christian is more well known than Angle pure and simply because he's had far more exposure in WWE, even when he was in ECW. Angle is a bigger 'name' to wrestling fans in general because of what he's done but with how low level TNA are as far as exposure goes, if he returned to WWE I think he'd be seen as a nostalgia act because as far their audience is concerned Kurt Angle pretty much vanished when he left in 2006.

 

For those talking about the draft, there will be two three-hour Raw's on June 13th and 20th, coinciding with the end of Tough Enough, so if there is a draft this year it'll probably be on one of those shows.

[The Shape]

Because the majority of wrestling fans haven't seen Angle since 2006, while Christian has just been heavily involved in a World Title feud for Wrestlemania that has seen him appear on the two biggest weekly wrestling shows?

 

I would argue that some people not knowing who you are but everyone who knows you knowing you're kind of a big deal leaves a higher ceiling as far as overness goes than everyone knowing you in a stage of mediocrity xD Christian's involvement culminated in a minute presence on the show itself, basically standing next to Edge while he beat up a car and clapping a lot.

[ampulator]

The main reason Kurt signed with TNA back when he did was because of the lighter road schedule. I don't think that at this point in his life/career that he would be willing to go back to the WWE because of the road schedule. I like many would like to see Kurt back in WWE one day even if it is for a short period of time but if he wont be able the road schedule then its not going to happen no matter how much we want it to.

You are correct. but only partially. What he wants is a lighter road schedule. WWE may be able to provide that to Kurt, but WILL they do it, even if Kurt asked for less money for a reduced schedule? That's doubtful.

 

Plus, he hasn't adjusted his style.

[Hive]

Because the majority of wrestling fans haven't seen Angle since 2006, while Christian has just been heavily involved in a World Title feud for Wrestlemania that has seen him appear on the two biggest weekly wrestling shows?

 

So because Christian is on a show that's seen by far more people, he's automatically more over? I suppose by that logic that everyone on the WWE roster is more over than anyone in TNA? I don't buy it.

 

Neither Kevin Nash nor Booker T had been seen on WWE tv for several years prior to their Royal Rumble entries, but they got HUGE pops from the crowd (especially Kevin Nash). Booker T had not been on WWE for 4 years and Nash had not been on WWE for 8(!) years. But are you claiming that they are less over than Christian or any other midcarder in WWE? The minute they returned, they were instantly main event material in the WWE universe again. And I believe the same would apply to Angle.

[Teh_Showtime]

Booker should really process his thoughts in his head before he says them on TV. Obviously the Corre has no leadership or chemistry.

 

Leadership? Perhaps not, but 3/4 of them have been together for a year,

 

Edit: Santino just kipped up... that was epic.

[lazorbeak]

You do know Christian was injured for several months, right? I mean, by this same argument, HHH was a no body until he finally had his match with Taker at WM27. You know, since he hadn't been in any big matches in the last several months.

 

Except that Christian isn't hurt now, and he wasn't hurt when he was doing TV programs with Cody Rhodes and McIntyre, and he's done literally nothing for a year. So no, not quite the same, but nice try. I mean Triple H has been in more singles matches on PPV than Christian despite not being on television for most of an entire year. Yes, maybe 4 months of that is injury time, but even before that WWE made it clear they weren't showcasing him.

 

So because Christian is on a show that's seen by far more people, he's automatically more over? I suppose by that logic that everyone on the WWE roster is more over than anyone in TNA? I don't buy it.

 

Neither Kevin Nash nor Booker T had been seen on WWE tv for several years prior to their Royal Rumble entries, but they got HUGE pops from the crowd (especially Kevin Nash). Booker T had not been on WWE for 4 years and Nash had not been on WWE for 8(!) years. But are you claiming that they are less over than Christian or any other midcarder in WWE? The minute they returned, they were instantly main event material in the WWE universe again. And I believe the same would apply to Angle.

 

Not sure that one crowd's response at a shock return makes anyone a "main eventer," but you're right: while nobody's seen Kevin Nash in 8 years, when he left, he was working high profile matches and was a multi-time world champion. Whereas when Christian left he was a solid worker who could make top guys look good, and since he came back he's a solid worker who could make young guys look good: neither qualifies him as a "big star."

[ampulator]

It doesn't qualify as a big star in the past, but he's a big star by today's rather low standards.

[eayragt]

I think I'd better point out that Christian got an equally big pop as Booker T did when making his return, just for balance.

 

But as for who is more over? Depends on your definition (whether or not you're more over if more people know you, or how popular you are in the group of people who know you). I don't think there's a hard and fast definition out there, so both sides can argue they're right and agree to disagree.

[ampulator]

If you mean over as "poipular right now", then I don't think Angle has that, but it's not something he can't build. If you mean over as in "people know who he is over itme", then he's in a good place. AFter all, if Booker T, and DIESEL (not Kevin Nash, DIESEL), got huge pops, there's no reason why Kurt Angle wouldn't get equally loud pop.

[Jaysin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hO9ELioCAw

 

I miss Sean O'Haire. I don't get how he wasn't main eventing. He had the look, the talent, the mic skills, and these promos are killer.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I think he had issues backstage?

 

Yeah, it's a shame. I'd really like for a talented prospect to take the mantle of that gimmick.

[ampulator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hO9ELioCAw

 

I miss Sean O'Haire. I don't get how he wasn't main eventing. He had the look, the talent, the mic skills, and these promos are killer.

I wouldn't call it "mic skills". To be fair, it wasn't bad at all. But it's more a combination of sheer menace and charisma.

 

I think he had issues backstage?

 

Yeah, it's a shame. I'd really like for a talented prospect to take the mantle of that gimmick.

 

He had too many problems OUTSIDE the comopany. Don't know about backstage problems, though.

[ACCBiggz]

Those promos were the best thing he ever did, but outside of those I never once saw him as a viable top tier talent. I never enjoyed him personally.

[Jingo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hO9ELioCAw

 

I miss Sean O'Haire. I don't get how he wasn't main eventing. He had the look, the talent, the mic skills, and these promos are killer.

 

I was a big O'Haire fan back at the tail end of WCW, and into the WWE these promos were awesome. Wasn't he really poor when he tried to do a 'live' promo? Thats why they brought in Piper and things went bad from there, or something like that ... Although we did have the hilarious Piper and Zach Gowen moment around then.

[alphadraighon]

Didn't know where else to post this, but I figured since there was recent discussion of Scott Hall I could put it here.

 

Don't know how many of you have seen this video from Friday night....

 

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/very-disturbing-video-of-scott-hall-from-this-week/

[Big Roguey]

Who do people think will be released during this years "Spring Cleaning"?

 

Personally, I see folks like JTG, Masters and Hawkins going.

[Fantabulous]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Daniel Bryan released. He went from having a strong midcard push to virtual jobber in record time. Yoshi Tatsu could be another one gone.

 

As for O'Haire, I think the deal was when they put him in front of a live audience to do his promo's, he couldn't pull it off. Which is a shame, because the gimmick was great.

[Teh_Showtime]

So he is a jobber because he lost his title and return match?

[20LEgend]

I'd be very shocked to see Bryan Danielson released, I think Hawkins, Tatsu, Baretta, Masters, JTG and those on Superstars

[Rone Rivendale]

Yeah I don't see how Bryan is a jobber either. He held the US title for several months and then lost it and lost a rematch. That's not being a jobber.

 

I was a big O'Haire fan back in WCW and I liked his Devil's Advocate gimmick in WWE too. I think he left WWE to do MMA, but everything I remember from back then was that he got his ass kicked badly in his MMA bouts.

 

Back to the Christian debate now. He was a 2 time TNA World Champion. He was a 1 time ECW Champion, which although not considered a 'world' title is probably somewhere under World but above IC/US titles. And when he got injured and since he has come back, he has been in a fued with Alberto Del Rio, a rising star, who if is not a main eventer now, certainly will be for years to come. What part of any of this doesn't scream big star to you? And it's not even just the titles, he was undefeated in TNA for 2 years, that's LONGER than Samoa's Joe famed streak. And in 'new' ECW it is arguable that no one was bigger than Christian during it's entire run. Add all that to TWO match of the year awards, one half of one of the greatest tag teams of all time with Edge, and the fact that he is better on the mic than 90% of the WWE roster.... this isn't even a debate anymore. Just sayin.

[milamber]

Smackdown:

 

8-Man Tag Match - that's the match we should have seen at Mania. Pretty good for a 4v4.

 

Sin Cara rules! I like his early gimmick - masked crusader standing up to heels like Sheamus and Swagger.

 

Christian v Del Rio - Great match! Shocked by the result. I thought it would be Christian losing to Edge at Extreme Rules and Del Rio taking the title at Over the Limit. Either Del Rio's winning the title at ER or there's a Triple Threat Match coming in the next 3 months.

 

BTW, I like Baretta. In fact they should have kept Croft and renamed the Dudebusters as they were a decent tag team. I would have liked to see Bryan defend the US Title more before he lost it.

[lazorbeak]

Yeah I don't see how Bryan is a jobber either. He held the US title for several months and then lost it and lost a rematch. That's not being a jobber.

 

I was a big O'Haire fan back in WCW and I liked his Devil's Advocate gimmick in WWE too. I think he left WWE to do MMA, but everything I remember from back then was that he got his ass kicked badly in his MMA bouts.

 

Back to the Christian debate now. He was a 2 time TNA World Champion. He was a 1 time ECW Champion, which although not considered a 'world' title is probably somewhere under World but above IC/US titles. And when he got injured and since he has come back, he has been in a fued with Alberto Del Rio, a rising star, who if is not a main eventer now, certainly will be for years to come. What part of any of this doesn't scream big star to you? And it's not even just the titles, he was undefeated in TNA for 2 years, that's LONGER than Samoa's Joe famed streak. And in 'new' ECW it is arguable that no one was bigger than Christian during it's entire run. Add all that to TWO match of the year awards, one half of one of the greatest tag teams of all time with Edge, and the fact that he is better on the mic than 90% of the WWE roster.... this isn't even a debate anymore. Just sayin.

 

My point is he hasn't done anything of any value to anyone who watches WWE television in 18 months except for the program he's in a supporting role in right now. So if any hypothetical people were to think he was at the same level in the eyes of the fan-base of, say, The Miz, that that statement would be outlandish. Yes, Christian has won titles: most guys who have been around since 1998 have a ridiculous amount of gold. But saying that because he did a bunch of midcard stuff 10 years ago for a national promotion and then was a 'star' in a promotion nobody watched (where as top draw he didn't move needles at all) for several years which is basically downtime in the eyes of most 'E fans doesn't mean a lot. Plus he's good on the mic. With these stringent definitions of big star, Raven is/was a "big star." Heck, he was ECW champ when it was more relevant, TNA champ, US champion when it mattered, and a better talker. Raven for WWE Hall of Fame 2012!

[Tha Black Phenom]

Bah, either way whether he's a big star or not.. what matters is he's a solid talent. Now let's focus on part of what makes Christian really special, his promos. Specifically his pro-Canada promos:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVovCGAyg_o

 

Represent!

[Astil]

My point is he hasn't done anything of any value to anyone who watches WWE television in 18 months except for the program he's in a supporting role in right now. So if any hypothetical people were to think he was at the same level in the eyes of the fan-base of, say, The Miz, that that statement would be outlandish. Yes, Christian has won titles: most guys who have been around since 1998 have a ridiculous amount of gold. But saying that because he did a bunch of midcard stuff 10 years ago for a national promotion and then was a 'star' in a promotion nobody watched (where as top draw he didn't move needles at all) for several years which is basically downtime in the eyes of most 'E fans doesn't mean a lot. Plus he's good on the mic. With these stringent definitions of big star, Raven is/was a "big star." Heck, he was ECW champ when it was more relevant, TNA champ, US champion when it mattered, and a better talker. Raven for WWE Hall of Fame 2012!

 

Do you talk to casual fans or non-fans often?

[Jaysin]

Anyone else read this from Superstar Billy Graham?

 

"For the WWE to induct into their Hall of Fame, Abdullah The Butcher, who has never wrestled one match under a WWE contract, is bordering on blasphemy. I am demanding that this company remove my name from their index of Hall of Fame wrestlers. It is a shameless organization to induct a bloodthirsty animal such as Abdullah The Butcher into their worthless and embarrassing Hall of Fame and I want the name of Superstar Billy Graham to be no part of it. The WWE and their Hall of Fame is disgustingly embarrassing, I want out."