The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hashasheen]

I think alot of you guys seem to want your cake and eat it too.

 

you can't have the board of directors specifically target Vince's bad booking decisions as a reason to fire him from his own company yet complain that in the lead up to that angle vince made bad booking decisions you didn't like so the show stunk. That was the point of the night and recent storyline....

 

As i said above, the entire point of the night was that Vince has lost touch with the audience and needs to be replaced. yet the criticisms here about the first 1:45 minutes of the show are that it wasn't a well booked show following a good PPV (which was only good because all of Vince's schemes backfired).

 

You can't have a guy book a great show to make up for losing the WWE title and then send out HHH to strip him down for being a bad head of the company. Not if you want the angle to mean anything anyway

 

And lets be honest, those matches are no worse than what's been on Raw for years, and contrary to some of the posters above's assertions, 3 of them went over 8 minutes of in ring time. 2 others went over 6.

 

As i pointed out to Hive, I'll wait to see next weeks follow up. If trips doesn't cement his power/ alter the booking by Vince and instead just goes forward with the rey v. miz match and trying to pretend punk dosen't exist, , then I'll lean more the way of "they are screwing this up"

 

But if the booking next week references how bad an idea it was to try to "forget" the WWE title as i expect then this show was well booked, because it told the correct story of Vince's growing incompetence and loss of touch with the WWE's current audience (something Punk, Cena and Trips have referenced in promo's) that had to be stopped and opens the way for them to tell the story of HHH trying to set the company stright.

 

Ever hear of too little too late? Because they could have swung for that rather easily. And I'll bet you they won't even claim this week's show as a badly booked one. The WWE don't badmouth themselves if they can. They'll badmouth individuals (Vince, Triple H, Ace), but nevr the company as a whole.

[Eisen-verse]

I wasn't able to watch the show but I did watch the clips online. That said, I'm really excited about the possibility of Triple H finally moving over to that of an Authority Figure. We all know his in-ring days, a 300+ calendar year, are well past him. Going forward, now, the WWE can start to re-brand the WWE with a NEW Authority Figure in place; someone to symbolize what Vince meant to the company for many decades.

 

I know that he didn't grow up a McMahon BUT Triple H has put in his time, done his work, maneuvered his way politically, and is going to be, whether we like it or not, which I like it, a MAJOR figure in the company's future.

 

I'm excited to see what comes of this!

 

Cheers.

 

E-V

[The Shape]

Loving some of the Trips ideas, really does make sense for him to come in and not fully adhere to Vince's decisions this week. Would love a Summerslam buildup with Punk scheduled for a match at the show but not actually appearing on Raw, instead going to other promotions and sending twitter into overdrive, would make it an absolutely massive pay per view.

[crownsy]

Ever hear of too little too late? Because they could have swung for that rather easily. And I'll bet you they won't even claim this week's show as a badly booked one. The WWE don't badmouth themselves if they can. They'll badmouth individuals (Vince, Triple H, Ace), but nevr the company as a whole.

 

As to the "too little, too late" comment, i can certainly understand that sentiment with the direction the products gone, and wouldn't begrudge anyone who chooses to move on from WWE or not give them the benefit of the doubt. But i would submit that if that is your attitude as a viewer then the WWE isn't catering to you in the first place, since you've made the choice to spend your entertainment dollar elsewhere in advance.

 

as to them never badmouthing themselves as a company, Well that would be horrible business so of course they won't say "we suck"

 

but i'm confused as to how badmouthing Vince, something they will do, is mutualy exclusive.

 

he was in charge. therefore all you have to do is say that the tournament was another in a long line of questionable decisions and moving forward triple H is in charge and go from there.

[Hashasheen]

As to the "too little, too late" comment, i can certainly understand that sentiment with the direction the products gone, and wouldn't begrudge anyone who chooses to move on from WWE or not give them the benefit of the doubt. But i would submit that if that is your attitude as a viewer then the WWE isn't catering to you in the first place, since you've made the choice to spend your entertainment dollar elsewhere in advance.

... Too Little Too Late was in regards to a well booked night of matches on Raw before Triple H removed Vince from power.

 

My idea was that Vince would point to the tournament as an example of good planning, but Triple would state it was too late and point out stuff like the guest hosts, Snooki at Mania, etc...

 

As to them never badmouthing themselves as a company, Well that would be horrible business so of course they won't say "we suck", but I'm confused as to how badmouthing Vince (something they will do) is mutually exclusive.

 

He was in charge. therefore all you have to do is say that the tournament was another in a long line of questionable decisions and moving forward triple H is in charge and go from there.

 

Simple. Blaming Vince blames one guy with the power. Blaming the WWE implies a systematic problem within the entire company.

[ShaunGBD]

So Sin Cara might be done?

[SaySo]

So Sin Cara might be done?

 

For the next 30 days.

 

Hopefully he learns some English while he's off and come back.

 

Good thing Christian gave Sin Cara his first loss.

[MasterJ]

For the next 30 days.

 

Hopefully he learns some English while he's off and come back.

 

Good thing Christian gave Sin Cara his first loss.

 

No they are saying he is most likely done for good

[Fantabulous]

So Sin Cara might be done?

 

That is a very real possibility right now, but I'm not entirely sure why. I think it might be down to the fact that his signing was treated as a big deal, attributed as Triple H's first big signing when it comes to developing new talent, and within a few months he goes and fails a drug test.

[MasterJ]

This is what will happen.

 

HHH opens next weeks show and say that he wants Punk to be there next week.

 

The next week HHH tells Punk that he will give him all the things he wants in his contract if Punk can beat him at Summerslam. Punk agrees

 

HHH beats Punk at Summerslam for the belt

[sebsplex]

I'm kinda torn on this one. Arguments can be made for the storyline being a slowburner and that it was a realistic in terms of the storyline and Vince's character to have the show go the way it did (i.e. no calling out Punk), but bottom line for me was that what should have been a compelling episode of RAW was a real endurance test to sit through. Even when HHH reared his head, I was pretty much deflated by then.

 

Given the state of the wrestlers and how banged up some were removed from MiTB, I really don't think longer matches were the order of the day. The tournament matches were clunky enough as it were without being given extra time, so the length perhaps was partly due out of necessity. Perhaps a bit more time could have been given to the lesser lights of RAW... maybe announce a multi-man main event and have others compete for spots throughout the night or something... heck Vince could have just come out with something like "anyone" would make a better champion than Cena and hold a battle royal, maybe chuck in a double-elimination finish, Vince goes nuts that the title picture is still unresolved, cue Cena/HHH... *shrugs*

 

I just can't help but feel they could have made last night's show a more entertaining fare and still stuck to the concept of Vince's mishandling.

 

Still, it's in the books now and this storyline still has a ton of directions to go. I know the WWE haven't done much lately to be given the benefit of the doubt with handling the angle, but meh, I'll stick with it for a while longer yet. HHH's new role piques my interest, I just hope this doesn't turn into a McMahon Family-centric soap opera like so many previous big storylines.

[Fantabulous]

This is what will happen.

 

HHH opens next weeks show and say that he wants Punk to be there next week.

 

The next week HHH tells Punk that he will give him all the things he wants in his contract if Punk can beat him at Summerslam. Punk agrees

 

HHH beats Punk at Summerslam for the belt

 

Is it 2003 again?

[crownsy]

 

 

Simple. Blaming Vince blames one guy with the power. Blaming the WWE implies a systematic problem within the entire company.

 

My bad on the to little to late comment, but i stand by the fact that it's not so terrible to wait a week to see what trips does. People want WWE to go back to building long term feuds and storyline, but complain when a show doesn't wrap up stories quickly. Whats the harm in keeping people guessing till monday on what Trips will do?

 

As to your second point, again, that's horrible business. why on earth would they say that they as a company are terrible and tell everyone "hey we agree, we suck at this now!"

 

And also, the point of the storyline, and all of Punk, Cena and others promos is that the problem lies with Vince and Vince alone being a dictator who is out of touch with this generation of wrestling fans and surrounds himself with suckups..i mean seriously, they labeled him with terms like "bully, dictator, tyrant" in promo's leading into MITB....so storyline wise, removing vince does signal a change in the company. Why would you instead change the focus to "this entire company is riddled with problems" (true or not)

 

Why on earth, from a storytelling and brand perspective, would they come out and say "we are a horrible company with a systematic problem in house, it doesn't matter who;s in charge." when they can instead say "We have a dictator who we just took steps to remove, tune in to see how HHH runs the company!"

 

The second option implies a shake up in programming that hasn't been seen in years. when was the last time an authority figure not named Vince wasen't a shadow figure in every storyline?

 

Will they use this chance to transition to Trips and change the image of the company? I'm very skeptical. But blaming Vince for all the problems , real and perceived, gives them the platform to try through triple H.

 

Coming out and saying that they as a company top to bottom have lost direction doesn't do that, and provides them no benefit long term. why would they do it?

[crownsy]

No they are saying he is most likely done for good

 

 

yea, one unnamed source is telling wrestlinginc that. I'll believe it when i see the release statement from WWE.

 

I'm also confused as to why they would post a 1 month injury report on WWE.com if they were going to cut him. Wouldn't it be more likely they would play up a serious injury that forced him out of the company?

[1234]

Completely sums up my feelings. Punk has me invested in his character, which could be ruined depending where they go with it.

 

The only way I would want him back next week is if he comes out of the crowd to try and enforce the stipulation that Cena should be fired. And in a scenario that could perfectly work for Summerslam is have Punk confront HHH and demand Cena be fired, all the while refusing another match.

 

Then have HHH say that things are going to change from the McMahon era, and that he will be doing things differently. Have HHH say that he knows what the title means, and will do anything to prevent it leaving the title, including have a match...against Punk at Summerslam. If Punk wins, not only will HHH fire John Cena...but HHH will retire. If HHH wins, Punk must sign a new contract and return to the WWE.

 

(Very much fantasy booking, but who knows what could happen. And I don't know where this would leave the WWE title tournament, but who cares)

 

This is what will happen.

 

HHH opens next weeks show and say that he wants Punk to be there next week.

 

The next week HHH tells Punk that he will give him all the things he wants in his contract if Punk can beat him at Summerslam. Punk agrees

 

HHH beats Punk at Summerslam for the belt

 

Ha, we are pretty much on the same wave length. However I don't think Punk winning should get him the contract, as it voids what has already happened. Vince was willing to sign Punks deal, but Punk took the contract away and ripped it up because he wanted out. Why would Punk now fight for the deal?

[Guest codey]

It looks like the perfect lead up to a feud with Seamus when he comes back, finally giving him something real to do instead of kind of floating into the Bryan-Rhodes feud.

[crownsy]

Ha, we are pretty much on the same wave length. However I don't think Punk winning should get him the contract, as it voids what has already happened. Vince was willing to sign Punks deal, but Punk took the contract away and ripped it up because he wanted out. Why would Punk now fight for the deal?

 

Punk only took it because Cena punched him. Up until that point he was at good to go. his signature was "already on the contract" that Vince was about to sign when Cena interrupted.

 

 

I still don't think that's what will happen. I think they'll play up the social media aspect (something they've gotten right over the past 6 months or so) and continue to have punk run with that for awhile.

 

Example: his first title defense being against E.Honda was an awesome tweet

[1234]

Example: his first title defense being against E.Honda was an awesome tweet

 

Piston Honda. E Honda isn't worth a title match.

[Astil]

Piston Honda. E Honda isn't worth a title match.

 

E. Honda is the definition of JttS.

[Hashasheen]

My bad on the to little to late comment, but i stand by the fact that it's not so terrible to wait a week to see what trips does. People want WWE to go back to building long term feuds and storyline, but complain when a show doesn't wrap up stories quickly. Whats the harm in keeping people guessing till monday on what Trips will do?

 

As to your second point, again, that's horrible business. why on earth would they say that they as a company are terrible and tell everyone "hey we agree, we suck at this now!"

 

And also, the point of the storyline, and all of Punk, Cena and others promos is that the problem lies with Vince and Vince alone being a dictator who is out of touch with this generation of wrestling fans and surrounds himself with suckups..i mean seriously, they labeled him with terms like "bully, dictator, tyrant" in promo's leading into MITB....so storyline wise, removing vince does signal a change in the company. Why would you instead change the focus to "this entire company is riddled with problems" (true or not)

 

Why on earth, from a storytelling and brand perspective, would they come out and say "we are a horrible company with a systematic problem in house, it doesn't matter who;s in charge." when they can instead say "We have a dictator who we just took steps to remove, tune in to see how HHH runs the company!"

 

The second option implies a shake up in programming that hasn't been seen in years. when was the last time an authority figure not named Vince wasen't a shadow figure in every storyline?

 

Will they use this chance to transition to Trips and change the image of the company? I'm very skeptical. But blaming Vince for all the problems , real and perceived, gives them the platform to try through triple H.

 

Coming out and saying that they as a company top to bottom have lost direction doesn't do that, and provides them no benefit long term. why would they do it?

... Dude, are you trying to intentionally trying to misinterpet what I say?

[crownsy]

... Dude, are you trying to intentionally trying to misinterpet what I say?

 

 

so in response to me asking:

 

He was in charge. therefore all you have to do is say that the tournament was another in a long line of questionable decisions and moving forward triple H is in charge and go from there.

 

so what did you mean by: Simple. Blaming Vince blames one guy with the power. Blaming the WWE implies a systematic problem within the entire company.

 

 

your response implies that blaming Vince is a lame cop out of some sort by the WWE when they should admit the problem runs deeper. Were you just making a general statement of fact that had no relevance to the question i asked for discussion?

 

If so then yes, I misinterpreted your comment as a point of discussion, not a simple statement of fact.

[Hashasheen]

so in response to me asking:

 

He was in charge. therefore all you have to do is say that the tournament was another in a long line of questionable decisions and moving forward triple H is in charge and go from there.

 

so what did you mean by: Simple. Blaming Vince blames one guy with the power. Blaming the WWE implies a systematic problem within the entire company.

 

your response implies that blaming Vince is a lame cop out of some sort by the WWE when they should admit the problem runs deeper. Were you just making a general statement of fact that had no relevance to the question i asked for discussion?

 

If so then yes, I misinterpreted your comment as a point of discussion, not a simple statement of fact.

 

Yeah, basically. When you said they should just blame Vince and move on with HHH, I just made a statement that they're naturally going to do that, and blame the likes of Johnny Ace and whatever, because they wouldn't dump on the company. But looking back, I can see how confusing I wrote it, and I apologize.

[FINisher]

I liked how the chants turned from the "na-na-na, hey hey, goodbye" to "Thank you Vince!".. Great moment I think. I lol'd at first to Triple H's last line but then it turned sadness. It felt real, Vince's tears.

[steesh07]

I have to say, the whole Punk/Cena match and pre-post match antics were up there in my top three greatest moments when watching wrestling. Wasn't too keen on last nights Raw however.

[bookerman]

My fantasy booking/2 cents

 

Next week, they crown a new champ and HHH announces that since Cena can't have a rematch against Punk, he gets a shot at the title at Summerslam. A chance at redemption. If he loses, it's his last title shot this year and he'll have to work his way back up to the top, including losing his Main Event slot at WM. Cena loses and is now doing opening match duty on Raw. But this isn't pandering Super Cena, this is focused aggressive Cena, playing the underdog/me vs the world role he seems good at. He also changes his attire to something more "wrestler" to reflect his new nature and desire to be serious. No more 5 knuckle shuffle or you can't see me. Just Cena going out and blitzing the low ends of the Raw roster in sub 5 minute matches. Any interviews are him being focused on regaining the Main Event at WM and taking one more step up the ladder.He can still wear the shirts and hats. He gets to Royal Rumble and wins the Rumble. The Rumble stip being the winner can either challenge for the WWE/heavyweight title or face the Rock in the Main Event at WM. Cena makes it to WM and faces the Rock in the ME. The previous 9 months have rebuilt Cena as a focused individual who is driven to succeed. He can certainly take some losses during the time and use these "setbacks" as motivation.

 

Punk gets a few months off and uses social media to keep his name popping up with the title. Much like HBK/Razor, when he comes back, he's got a beef with whoever the WWE Champ is. If they could hold it off, a unification match at WM would be great.

 

The other thought I had would be a quadruple Main Event at WM

 

- Cena vs The Rock

- Punk vs Stone Cold Steve Austin

- Orton vs HHH

- Miz vs Undertaker

 

A true passing of the torch WM where the WWE Legends put over the next generation of talent (except for Undertaker who keeps his streak alive). All of them have fairly easy reasons for taking place. You then start building to Cena vs Punk II @ Summerslam as well as Orton vs Miz.

 

Thoughts? Too much long term thinking?