bigtplaystew Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Kinda makes the<p> </p><p> "Maybe we should think about that before we post mildly insulting paragraphs where we're incorrectly explaining stuff."</p><p> </p><p> a little more amusing, 'eh?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> My incorrect and snide remark was whittled down to a sentence or two, thank you very much.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <p>So my prediction for MITB main event. Yes it will be Punk vs Bryan. AJ L screws over Punk somehow and Bryan wins. She then screws over Bryan and Cena cashes in and wins tada. Or reverse Punk and Bryan and replace Cena with Show, same thing basically. Can't say I care much about the rest of the card.</p><p> </p><p> Now what I would like to see happen is AJ L helps Punk win over Bryan and it seems she has really chosen for Punk. Out comes Cena and cashes in but giving Punk time to prepare etc. AJ screws over Punk and Cena wins and they celebrate together, Cena heel turn Cena and AJ the new Macho Man and Sherry/Elizabeth. Yes this comes of very IWC smarky I know. But at this point I don't think it will have much negative effect as long as the kids have a clean cut baby kissing hero they will buy his stuff. It's the brand that draws not any individual wrestler at this point. If this doesn't happen or something near as good I'm back to just reading recaps and maybe check out 1000 raw and Summerslam until I read structural changes are happening.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Cena cashing in the MITB after a match will not happen. He'll challenge at Summer Slam for it, most likely, and use his case to ensure he gets his shot then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <p>I know we keep running in circles around this topic, but does Cena win the briefcase and go on the slow slide to heel ala Kane and Daniel Bryan?</p><p> </p><p> I like the idea of the MitB briefcase being the WWE's equivalent to the "one ring to rule them all" in the sense that the power of it corrupts even the most steadfast of faces: John Cena :-)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I know with my logical brain that it won't happen but my "aww shucks" total mark side wants to see it.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I know we keep running in circles around this topic, but does Cena win the briefcase and go on the slow slide to heel ala Kane and Daniel Bryan?<p> </p><p> I like the idea of the MitB briefcase being the WWE's equivalent to the "one ring to rule them all" in the sense that the power of it corrupts even the most steadfast of faces: John Cena :-)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I know with my logical brain that it won't happen but my "aww shucks" total mark side wants to see it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Does seem like a fun reputation to give it. Is RVD the only one to escape from that curse so far?</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Does seem like a fun reputation to give it. Is RVD the only one to escape from that curse so far?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Seems like it.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Moe Hunter" data-cite="Moe Hunter" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>SES - routinely squashed by Big Show<p> New Nexus - routineley squashed by Orton</p><p> </p><p> Because why push hot new talent, when you can keep forcing guys who've been on top forever?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They were building Punk up to what he is today, for one. They were using the overness already there for Orton to highlight them.</p><p> </p><p> This gets really annoying to me, not the person or people complaining, but the idea that everything can happen incredibly fast, and the thought that they should be able to capitalize on everything the very next show if something happened to stand out more then normal. I agree I wish it could happen like that , but it's obvious they are going for longevity instead of "instant success". This has been going on for almost a decade now.</p><p> </p><p> Orton become incredibly popular after his "Face" turn (or right before it). These "Squash" victories come right after that, in some ways created it. You don't "Squash" your top talent to a bunch of "maybe's", you squash the "maybe's". Like I said Heyman said earlier, it's simple "Here's the bad guys, SES, Nexus, New Nexus, and here's the guy that can whip there butts." That's how you "sell" tickets. Bad guys only win by cheating (unless there is a good gap in overness), good guys win the feud, or "Squash them" if that's how you want to put it.</p><p> </p><p> A squash is a fast match, with the opponent unable to defend themselves to the overwhelming power/skill/speed, of the main character. Not that there weren't any "squash" match's in there, but people use that term to make a point, that only makes their point sound pointless to most of us that knows what an actual "squash" is.</p><p> </p><p> Another point: When a team or stable is on the way to breaking up, I for the life of me can't think of them not putting over other talent before the break-up. Usually already established talent that is either gaining overness (and probably a main reason (story-line wise) for the stable/team breaking up), and/or someone that needs a few wins to knock them back up the card to make them more relevant again. You have to look at everything, not just the failure's, but what happened afterward, and how they planned it out to end up the way it did.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> On the MITB: I didn't expect Cena to be in that match, but I'm curious as to what they are going to do with him in it. Obviously if he wins, he has that "Power", but I can't see him cashing in on Punk or Bryan at this stage. Has to be a different opponent, at least IMO.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Does seem like a fun reputation to give it. Is RVD the only one to escape from that curse so far?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Punk the first time.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Punk the first time.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's right. He was a face when he beat Edge when Edge was taking the belt to Smackdown. Had forgotten about that one. Was a great moment too.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Yup and to kind of react on dj if they had really capitalized on it Punk could have been at this level way sooner. Yes stuff takes time but that doesn't mean that WWE hasn't done a bad job of making that time shorter. Punk is probably the prime example with all the push and pulls and overshadowing and cutting of when hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKnifed72 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This gets really annoying to me, not the person or people complaining, but <strong><em>the idea that everything can happen incredibly fast</em></strong>, and the thought that they should be able to capitalize on everything the very next show if something happened to stand out more then normal. I agree I wish it could happen like that , but it's obvious they are going for longevity instead of "instant success". </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I usually don't chime in here, as I am not much of a fan of the current WWE "product", but thought I would here...</p><p> </p><p> pertaining to the bolded part...so true</p><p> </p><p> read a quote from Good Ol' JR, who along with being a hall of fame announcer was the head of talent development for several years...and quite good at it, here's the quote....</p><p> </p><p> "BAH GAWD! BAH GAWD! B----" sorry wrong quote <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> "I've said many times in this space that the journey from debuting on TV until a talent makes it to the next level, if they do make it, is<strong><em> 3-5 years"</em></strong></p><p> </p><p> I'd argue that CM Punk has gone up 2 levels...from a mid-carder to a fringe main eventer, and then from main eventer to "mega-star". Punk, who already had experience and a built-in fanbase, has been in the 'E for 6 years...so I agree, he had to go through the ECW title feud, the losses to JoMo...the first WWE title on RAW...the move to Smackdown...feud with Jeff Hardy...SES...New Nexus...to build to where he is today. It does take time, with a few exceptions, to build a mega-star in pro wrestling. As much as I dislike the WWE over the last ten years or so, they did the CM Punk build the right way...not saying every single match/feud/angle was done perfectly, but over all it was done correctly and I believe that DJChris is right</p><p> </p><p> Although that's just my opinion...I could be wrong</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yup and to kind of react on dj if they had really capitalized on it Punk could have been at this level way sooner. Yes stuff takes time but that doesn't mean that WWE hasn't done a bad job of making that time shorter. Punk is probably the prime example with all the push and pulls and overshadowing and cutting of when hot.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The sooner thing always scares me of a "flash in the pan" type of thing. In other words, to really, and I mean "Really" get everyone to know who he is exactly, you can't do it much quicker. Sure, you can put them in there, and have them there for the years it takes to do that, but the problem is your then not utilizing the names you have already created in a smart way.</p><p> </p><p> In other words, the thing I was talking about is you have already established stars, such as Orton or Edge, Big Show, Kane, etc.. Everyone knows them, as they have been around for the amount of time that it takes to make them a household name. It's completely silly to have someone that is not as well known (at least to me) and established, to overshadow them, and then not draw as well as it could have. When I here people wanting to rush things, I think to myself "What is wrong with them, don't they realize if they did do that (rush it), they are doing exactly what they don't want them to do, setting them up for failure!" You have to build them, put them in the midst of things, get people invested in them... Not just the IWC, but everyone. </p><p> </p><p> They did Punk justice, and now Bryan is getting more chances then most. I'm happy with them right now, far as that goes.</p><p> </p><p> Far as their Raw shows are going, I'm not really happy with it, just can't wait for it to be show 1010 (so I'm not seeing all the re-runs on the first couple of shows after 1000).</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMAN Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <p>The card for MITB is so slim (mitb matches themselves usually last around 20 min) that I have a feeling that one or both briefcases will be cashed in on this night.</p><p> </p><p> Something like:</p><p> Ziggler wins opening MITB match.</p><p> ADR/Sheamus</p><p> Ziggler cashes in on whoever the winner is.</p><p> Cena wins MITB match.</p><p> Punk/Bryan</p><p> Cena cashes in after Punk/Bryan</p><p> </p><p> I think I would go with ADR winning the World Heavyweight, then have Ziggler's cash in be the seeds planted for a face turn.</p><p> </p><p> Someone else mentioned earlier, but have the WWE Championship match ultimately end in AJ siding with John Cena and screwing everyone else. If they do go through with this though, they better not let Cena **** it up with his horrible promos.</p><p> </p><p> I see no reason not to. Summer Slam is likely to be packed with Lesnar/HHH. Survivor Series will be about Taker. And then RR will be coming up to crown a new number one contender anyway.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Final Countdown Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 While I think Cena's character is stale and would find it very interesting to see him do something different (like winning MITB and taking the "easy way" of cashing in on a weakened champion), I just can't see it. The kids still love him as far as I can tell, so there's no reason for WWE to make any radical changes to his character. If he wins MITB, he'll come right up to the champion and tell him that he'll see him at Summerslam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Final Countdown" data-cite="The Final Countdown" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>While I think Cena's character is stale and would find it very interesting to see him do something different (like winning MITB and taking the "easy way" of cashing in on a weakened champion), I just can't see it. The kids still love him as far as I can tell, so there's no reason for WWE to make any radical changes to his character. If he wins MITB, he'll come right up to the champion and tell him that he'll see him at Summerslam.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> For sure, man. 95% of the time I'm sitting here going "They'll never turn Cena heel when will you people give this up blah blah blah"</p><p> </p><p> Just doing a little fantasy booking and I'm saying if I were making the choices, I'd use MitB to kick off a slow Cena heel turn. The time could be right. This year's wrestlemania is already fairly stacked if Rock and Lesnar are involved so you have bankable stars to sell you the PPV. The divorce and some of the rumored sexual exploits may become public knowledge. Rather than waste time and money on damage control, they could use it.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Again, not saying it WILL happen, just kinda wishing out loud. They won't really do this until they feel CM Punk and/or Shaemus are proven ratings and sales draws. I don't pretend to know figures but from what I understand neither is where Cena is at in those areas.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rone Rivendale Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 <p>Cena winning MitB and cashing it in at SS with advance notice would defeat the purpose of the MitB concept. </p><p> </p><p> Sure it worked for RVD, because he had the ECW themed PPV which made him the HEAVY crowd favorite going into that match with Cena. </p><p> </p><p> But that was also one of the 1st (or might have been THE 1st) MitB, since then it has been synonymous with people like Edge, Jeff Hardy, and even "Mr. I'm Gonna Cash In At WM" Daniel Bryan. People who use the unique ability of the MitB rules. It's kind of like the 24/7 rule the Hardcore Title had. Sure they had some planned matches for the belt, but which hardcore matches were the most fun? The ones that came out of no where, of course. It's the same way for the MitB. </p><p> </p><p> My best friend was not a fan of wrestling before I met him. I had him watch RAW with me one day, it just happened to be the day Punk cashed in his 2nd MitB. It was such an exciting moment that he became a WWE fan after that (and luckily I also got him into ROH and Chikara as well).</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Cena winning MitB and cashing it in at SS with advance notice would defeat the purpose of the MitB concept. Sure it worked for RVD, because he had the ECW themed PPV which made him the HEAVY crowd favorite going into that match with Cena. But that was also one of the 1st (or might have been THE 1st) MitB, since then it has been synonymous with people like Edge, Jeff Hardy, and even "Mr. I'm Gonna Cash In At WM" Daniel Bryan. People who use the unique ability of the MitB rules. It's kind of like the 24/7 rule the Hardcore Title had. Sure they had some planned matches for the belt, but which hardcore matches were the most fun? The ones that came out of no where, of course. It's the same way for the MitB. My best friend was not a fan of wrestling before I met him. I had him watch RAW with me one day, it just happened to be the day Punk cashed in his 2nd MitB. It was such an exciting moment that he became a WWE fan after that (and luckily I also got him into ROH and Chikara as well). Um...Jeff Hardy never won MitB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The sooner thing always scares me of a "flash in the pan" type of thing. In other words, to really, and I mean "Really" get everyone to know who he is exactly, you can't do it much quicker. Sure, you can put them in there, and have them there for the years it takes to do that, but the problem is your then not utilizing the names you have already created in a smart way. In other words, the thing I was talking about is you have already established stars, such as Orton or Edge, Big Show, Kane, etc.. Everyone knows them, as they have been around for the amount of time that it takes to make them a household name. It's completely silly to have someone that is not as well known (at least to me) and established, to overshadow them, and then not draw as well as it could have. When I here people wanting to rush things, I think to myself "What is wrong with them, don't they realize if they did do that (rush it), they are doing exactly what they don't want them to do, setting them up for failure!" You have to build them, put them in the midst of things, get people invested in them... Not just the IWC, but everyone. They did Punk justice, and now Bryan is getting more chances then most. I'm happy with them right now, far as that goes. Far as their Raw shows are going, I'm not really happy with it, just can't wait for it to be show 1010 (so I'm not seeing all the re-runs on the first couple of shows after 1000). I agree that its a balancing and timing thing (Swagger) but on the whole I think they have done a bad job at it. They have erred on the side of caution and short term gain too much that we get the current situation where there is only 1 star (Cena) 2 below him (Punk, Orton) and then a gap with guys just getting established ( Del Rio, Sheamus, Bryan) and then a big gap to the rest. Without anyone to put those new guys over in a truly meaningful way (Kane, Show, Jericho can put over but not as meaningful). I hope they go with a "generation clash" for WM with all/most of the "old" guys putting over the new guys except for Taker who can cheat to win. I am not saying stables like MEM vs original Frontline but Personal feuds that just so happen to become "old" vs "new" so that it kinda springs upon you or is a hidden theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Um...Jeff Hardy never won MitB Yeah he got cashed in upon by Punk's second briefcase turning Punk heel and starting a pretty good program between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Just, gonna say. AJ siding with Cena and crapping on Punk/Bryan entirely, would be the last thing WWE ever got me to watch. Cena does not need to be involved in this. His involvement will only go to put him over both again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Not if a non neutered Punk vanquishes him in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Every title run or two has always been buffered by a Cena title run. I'm fine with Cena taking the belt back... as long as it comes with a heel turn. AJ's the perfect conduit to do it with too, but they're too chicken-poop to ever take that kind risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Every title run or two has always been buffered by a Cena title run. I'm fine with Cena taking the belt back... as long as it comes with a heel turn. AJ's the perfect conduit to do it with too, but they're too chicken-poop to ever take that kind risk. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 AJ winding up with Cena makes EVERYTHING these two have done, build up for Cena. Cena needs no more build up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>AJ winding up with Cena makes EVERYTHING these two have done, build up for Cena. Cena needs no more build up.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Punks 33, Bryan is 31, Cena is 35. They all need build up, all the time. All three are way to entertaining to not build up. I know you weren't talking about age, but I always feel because of the conversation sometimes, that it's as if Punk and Bryan are this "new generation", as if Cena isn't in that generation. </p><p> </p><p> However, I agree with you on the fact that Cena doesn't need to be involved in it, but he's going to have to be if he goes for the title, no matter if AJ is involved or not (but she needs to be, unless all the sudden they drop that whole story-line). That's why I was hoping they kept him out of that whole scene, and just brought people back for him to fued with (Rock, Brock, anyone really), so that they still get his drawing power.</p><p> </p><p> The only problem with that is if he doesn't every once in a while, get his hands on the title, he won't stay a draw. You don't want them to lose Cena's drawing power, because that's when you will see EVERYTHING circle around him til' he gets it back (too much money there).</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.