The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[K-Nection]

When you think about it, though, it's hard, unless their from a homegrown dojo, for a company to have talent that isn't from another's. I'd say guys like Kurt, Jeff, RVD, Bully, Matt, Sting (WCW in his case), Drew, EC3, Lashley among others have been better utilized in TNA than their WWE run. If TNA is going to pick up a someone who's worked for WWE before, good for them. It's almost impossible for any company without a dojo to have their own talent. ROH for example. I don't hear anyone complaining how guys like Lethal are from TNA and such. I enjoyed TNA's run in 2011/2012 and maybe it's just me not having watched them in the past, but Hogan and Bischoff got them mainstream exposure, and relying strictly on TV quality, I thought the shows were great. *prepares to be crucified for saying that.*

 

Lighting torch as we speak.....

 

I just have to say on the very first episode of the "Monday night wars" RVD comes out and squashes Sting in 20 seconds. If that wasn't a sign of bad times ahead I didn't know what was.

[Dave_Scott]

Lighting torch as we speak.....

 

I just have to say on the very first episode of the "Monday night wars" RVD comes out and squashes Sting in 20 seconds. If that wasn't a sign of bad times ahead I didn't know what was.

 

The night after WrestleMania 30 Paige squashed AJ in a minute and won the belt. People win quickly in their debuts sometimes.

[The_CoC]

Can TNA be saved is the question I find interesting. I think a new owner and a complete overhaul would do them good. I mean no-one could have imagined that 93 WCW could have turned into 97/98 WCW or even the same thing with the WWF.

[The_CoC]

The night after WrestleMania 30 Paige squashed AJ in a minute and won the belt. People win quickly in their debuts sometimes.

 

WWE do not make mistakes remember that, LOLTNA.

[Kitarzu]

The Hogan/Bischoff era was basically reset and trash what was before.

 

Just to give you an example: Christopher Daniels, one of the best workers of the last fifteen years fighting for the TNA World Title with Samoa Joe and AJ Styles in a rematch of Unbreakable 2005, probably the TNA best match ever, and a few matches later jobbing to Val Venis...

 

I understand you can like that time, but for people who watched TNA as an alternative way to WWE, that era was a dagger placed in your heart.

[jwt13]

TNA has been great since the move to pop. It's easy to say "Matt Hardy Vs Jeff isn't my thing in 2016" but the writing and character development of Matt Hardy made it great. Jeff still has fantastic matches also.

 

Another thing TNA has done great is building main event talent, you have TNA champion Drew Galloway, Mike Bennet, EC3, Bobby Lashley, The Hardys, all in a very good spot and each having a claim to the title at any time.

 

I understand people not liking the management but TNA has one of the best creative teams in wrestling and they have had the best show of the week for awhile now. The next step is just turning that corner with investors and such so they can keep expanding the roster. I do see Sandow or Wade in TNA in the near future to make the ME scene even better.

[guyver3]

But TNA did have homegrown talent AJ styles Christopher Daniels Montey Brown Abyss America's Most Wanted even to an extent guys like Joe and Aries who should have been utilized better. Sure AJ was a multiple time champion and grand slam champion but he was also booked terribly for long stretches of time during his run. There is nothing wrong with bringing in a guy like Angle or the Dudley's they were still crazy over and talented guys who should have been pushed. But Booker T Hall Nash RVD Pope Tomko Matt Hardy Jeff the second time Flair Foley Golddust never shouldn't even been signed. I'll fully admit some guys have been signed from WWE and worked out well but they've wasted so much real talent by focusing on former WWE guys. Also the reason nobody says anything about Jay Lethal in ROH is because he was in ROH before TNA.

[K-Nection]

The night after WrestleMania 30 Paige squashed AJ in a minute and won the belt. People win quickly in their debuts sometimes.

 

True they do win sometimes but him squashing Sting at this point in time is the equivalent if Dolph Ziggler went out and squashed HHH....

[Dave_Scott]

True they do win sometimes but him squashing Sting at this point in time is the equivalent if Dolph Ziggler went out and squashed HHH....

 

RVD was one of the biggest signings in TNA's history. The crowd was buzzing for him. If they had 20+ minute match the crowd would've died down and not popped as big. It was a great moment and it didn't hurt Sting at all. Dolph has been in the company for ages and his current pop levels compared to RVD's pop when he debuted is nowhere near similar.

[Dave_Scott]

TNA has been great since the move to pop. It's easy to say "Matt Hardy Vs Jeff isn't my thing in 2016" but the writing and character development of Matt Hardy made it great. Jeff still has fantastic matches also.

 

Another thing TNA has done great is building main event talent, you have TNA champion Drew Galloway, Mike Bennet, EC3, Bobby Lashley, The Hardys, all in a very good spot and each having a claim to the title at any time.

 

I understand people not liking the management but TNA has one of the best creative teams in wrestling and they have had the best show of the week for awhile now. The next step is just turning that corner with investors and such so they can keep expanding the roster. I do see Sandow or Wade in TNA in the near future to make the ME scene even better.

 

100% agree. People say that don't wanna see Hardy/Hardy when they don't even watch the show and give them a chance. Matt's heel work has made this story amazing. I'm really digging it.

[Dave_Scott]

But TNA did have homegrown talent AJ styles Christopher Daniels Montey Brown Abyss America's Most Wanted even to an extent guys like Joe and Aries who should have been utilized better. Sure AJ was a multiple time champion and grand slam champion but he was also booked terribly for long stretches of time during his run. There is nothing wrong with bringing in a guy like Angle or the Dudley's they were still crazy over and talented guys who should have been pushed. But Booker T Hall Nash RVD Pope Tomko Matt Hardy Jeff the second time Flair Foley Golddust never shouldn't even been signed. I'll fully admit some guys have been signed from WWE and worked out well but they've wasted so much real talent by focusing on former WWE guys. Also the reason nobody says anything about Jay Lethal in ROH is because he was in ROH before TNA.

 

Styles was in WCW prior as with Daniels, Storm, Harris. Samoa Joe was a major star in ROH and Aries started with ROH, came to TNA in 2005, left, then didn't resurface until 2011. So really the only guys you mentioned that could be considered home grown is Abyss and Monty Brown. (Sorry for triple post.)

[Dawn]

The night after WrestleMania 30 Paige squashed AJ in a minute and won the belt. People win quickly in their debuts sometimes.

 

True, but the only difference is, the WWE wasn't trying to establish itself...

[guyver3]

AJ Daniels AMW may have been in WCW but they didn't have any sort of name or notoriety because of it. Joe and Aries were ROH stars when they were an Indy DVD promotion so they all still count.

[Bigpapa42]

When you think about it, though, it's hard, unless their from a homegrown dojo, for a company to have talent that isn't from another's. I'd say guys like Kurt, Jeff, RVD, Bully, Matt, Sting (WCW in his case), Drew, EC3, Lashley among others have been better utilized in TNA than their WWE run. If TNA is going to pick up a someone who's worked for WWE before, good for them. It's almost impossible for any company without a dojo to have their own talent. ROH for example. I don't hear anyone complaining how guys like Lethal are from TNA and such. I enjoyed TNA's run in 2011/2012 and maybe it's just me not having watched them in the past, but Hogan and Bischoff got them mainstream exposure, and relying strictly on TV quality, I thought the shows were great. *prepares to be crucified for saying that.*

 

To me, homegrown doesn't mean they've never worked anywhere else. Simply that they have worked primarily for TNA. Styles, Daniels, and even Joe have worked elsewhere, but they were identified strongly as TNA workers by most fans. Even Joe's great ROH run wasn't something the average wrestling fan knew all that well. For awhile, TNA was a notable step above ROH in terms of visibility. Not really the case anymore, but for a long time.

 

Going after ex WWE guys isn't wrong entirely. Not at all what I'm saying. Rather, its how they tended to treat them. Which is featuring them above almost all the other talent. Justified in some situations like Angle, Team 3D, Christian, RVD.... but not in every case. And when you are trying to be the alternative to the WWE.... me turning on TNA and seeing half of the roster is WWE cast offs doesn't really come across as an alternative at all, but a weaker knockoff, even if the characters those workers are given are at least somewhat different. Whether they were utilized better or not, its at least partly about the perception. And again, its also about moderation. TNA didn't sign the occasional ex-WWE guy... Rather a significant percentage of the talent they signed for a lot of years were ex-WWE guys. I would guess somewhere about half.

 

Think about this - if TNA had focused on actually being what they are trying to present themselves as and instead of going after every second WWE release over the past ten years, they had mined the independent scene for talent. Obviously not every indy worker would have signed with TNA and not every one of them would have risen up the card. But still.... You could have the likes of Antonio Cesaro, Dean Ambrose, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Becky Lynch, Emma, and Seth Rollins as talents that most fans would see as TNA-specific. Every one of those (and probably quite a few more) had a notable profile on the indy scene before they signed with the WWE, but would still be "fresh" talent to the average wrestling fan who doesn't follow the indy scene.

[Dave_Scott]

AJ Daniels AMW may have been in WCW but they didn't have any sort of name or notoriety because of it. Joe and Aries were ROH stars when they were an Indy DVD promotion so they all still count.

 

It doesnt matter about the ROH thing. They were stars in a company not too far in size behind TNA, so TNA didn't build them from the ground up, more like 20 feet above the ground up.

[djthefunkchris]

I haven't really liked TNA outside of in ring action, ever. I tried them out a long time ago, when I guess they were "at their best". I watched them because at the time it seemed (at least the most vocal) everyone on these forums highly recommended it, and at times were so anti-WWE it made coming to these forums uncomfortable for someone like me.

 

I watched it objectively, but was very unimpressed. You can look up archival threads of my posts to get my impressions at the time, but overall what was unimpressive with me was the fact (in my opinion) they had MUCH BETTER workers, even more Star Power to someone like me that has watched off and on since the late 1970's..... showing my age, I know, since I knew over half of them without even watching the show before.

 

So they had this amazing roster of talent (at the time, probably still do), and over the coarse of a few months I watched what appeared to be low cards beat main event guys, than even lower guys beat them, then main event guys beat them, etc. Everyone that had anything going for themselves seemed to be on the same exact level, making a card progression laughable at best (for me). I couldn't make head or tails of what they were trying to accomplish, and almost every single match was a run-in, unfinished mess. At the time I was told "Watch the PPV's" to see people actually win/lose. Well, I wasn't about to spend any money on a PPV that they didn't get me interested in, and that's how my TNA watching ended. The only thing I really enjoyed was the in ring action (obviously X-Division being very exciting action), up till the endings of the match (which felt like to me they never actually happened). Over the top for no reason is how it felt, all the time to me.

 

So in my opinion they never established anything unless it was on PPV, and historically I guess it makes sense, as I believe that was their main focus when they were first established.

 

All that being said to establish where I sit on their product in the past (not watched currently, can't speak on current), here's my thoughts on the current topic though.

________________________________________________________________

 

I have no problem with TNA or any other wrestling promotion using guys that were popular in WWE or any other promotion, to help build a roster. If they can utilize them better (which reading here from some people, it seems they might be), that's actually amazing to me.

 

I'm a fan of wrestling... The whole package, from promo's to skits, to actual in ring action. Utilizing someone that built some popularity in another promotion has never been an issue for me, and I consider someone that becomes even more popular in that promotion to be built to that level by that promotion. IF for example, Wade Barret goes to TNA and does some amazing stuff that puts his name out there more than what WWE did, to me TNA built him to that level.

 

My biggest problem is taking someone big, and only using them to build what the company thinks of as "homegrown" talent off of. My biggest turn-off of fans, is when they WANT a company to make someone look weak in comparison because they think somehow that will make the promotions overall talent seem stronger.... Which it doesn't. It just makes them look like they don't know what to do with anyone once they get there.

 

If Jeff and Matt are doing things that are strong, gets the people interested, and they are doing it better than most of the others... They should be a focus, they should get rewarded. No problem with that at all. However, if there are others that show equal or better skill at getting the people interested, and they are being used as a prop to make Jeff and Matt look stronger, than that is where I would have a problem.

[guyver3]

It doesnt matter about the ROH thing. They were stars in a company not too far in size behind TNA, so TNA didn't build them from the ground up, more like 20 feet above the ground up.

 

By that logic nobody TNA could ever sign would be home grown talent unless they sign guys who haven't had a match yet

[Dave_Scott]

By that logic nobody TNA could ever sign would be home grown talent unless they sign guys who haven't had a match yet

 

......Right. That's the point. Home grown talent in my eyes is someone who is straight from a dojo and is built up to be a star.

[Mootinie]

So really the only guys you mentioned that could be considered home grown is Abyss and Monty Brown. (Sorry for triple post.)

 

......Right. That's the point. Home grown talent in my eyes is someone who is straight from a dojo and is built up to be a star.

 

Monty Brown made his debut in 2000. Abyss made his in 1995.

[Dave_Scott]

Monty Brown made his debut in 2000. Abyss made his in 1995.

 

Cool. Thanks for the correction.

[Jaysin]

......Right. That's the point. Home grown talent in my eyes is someone who is straight from a dojo and is built up to be a star.

 

By that logic, no one in the last 30 years is a home grown talent in any American promotion.

 

"Home grown talent" refers to where a worker made their name.

 

Before their runs in TNA, the casual wrestling fan had no idea who Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, or Christopher Daniels were. They became stars because of their time in TNA. Same with AJ Styles, Abyss, Monty Brown, America's Most Wanted, Motor City Machine Guns, and a plethora of other talent.

 

Chris Harris, James Storm, AJ, Daniels, and Low Ki were all on the very first TNA show ever. Trying to say they're not home grown guys is ridiculous.

[Dave_Scott]

By that logic, no one in the last 30 years is a home grown talent in any American promotion.

 

"Home grown talent" refers to where a worker made their name.

 

Before their runs in TNA, the casual wrestling fan had no idea who Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, or Christopher Daniels were. They became stars because of their time in TNA. Same with AJ Styles, Abyss, Monty Brown, America's Most Wanted, Motor City Machine Guns, and a plethora of other talent.

 

Chris Harris, James Storm, AJ, Daniels, and Low Ki were all on the very first TNA show ever. Trying to say they're not home grown guys is ridiculous.

 

Yeah I can definitely see your points there haha. I'm man enough to admit I was wrong on that.

[Mootinie]

If we're talking national attention, I disagree that Samoa Joe is TNA home-grown. He was made in ROH after his matches with Punk and the international dream match with Kenta Kobashi, which was huge among wrestling fans at the time. He also toured Japan and had a singles match against Misawa before he signed with TNA.

 

I also disagree with Aries, he was a two-time ROH Champion before he signed with TNA. Austin Starr doesn't count.

 

The rest I agree were TNA home-grown.

[guyver3]

Joe was in TNA before his match with Kobashi. That match actually happened close to the same time as the unbreakable 3 way. Aries was in TNA around the same time as well in 05 just after his first ROH title run ended. And as great as his trilogy with Punk was it still doesn't compare to the attention being on ppv and TV with an arguably national company. I said in my original post Joe and Aries to an extent are homegrown yes a minority of fans may have known of them prior but they became more recognizable as TNA wrestlers.

[Mootinie]

Joe was in TNA before his match with Kobashi. That match actually happened close to the same time as the unbreakable 3 way. Aries was in TNA around the same time as well in 05 just after his first ROH title run ended. And as great as his trilogy with Punk was it still doesn't compare to the attention being on ppv and TV with an arguably national company. I said in my original post Joe and Aries to an extent are homegrown yes a minority of fans may have known of them prior but they became more recognizable as TNA wrestlers.

 

I agree that both guys recieved more attention in TNA than elsewhere but I'm thinking in terms of being put on the map and establishing their name. It's all subjective but to me, Joe was made in ROH. Slight change of topic, but has any wrestler anywhere ever been as critically praised as Samoa Joe during that period in 2005 crossing over to 2006?

 

Think about it: the Punk matches, the Unbreakable three way, the Kobashi match, that phenomenal match he had with Styles at Turning Point (****3/4), the match with Daniels a couple of months later (****1/2). Just a phenomenal stint.