The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[liontamer]

good article quote.

 

And I'm not disputing that they make far less than WWE, they most likely do as TNA is not as big or established yet.

 

But that said, I don't think it's fair to take food, lodging, taxes etc out of the salary as everyone pays that and I would imagine there is some food at the tapings, although I will say I'm surprised if TNA doesn't pay some sort of lodging for the shows they travel for. And if she is exclusively TV/PPV then that's 26K if that only includes impact and PPV for 64 days work. That includes explosion (which I've never seen and will assume is weekly) then that's around 46K for 116 partial days work, again not bad.

 

Going just with the impact and PPV numbers (since I have no idea how explosion's tapings work into this), they tend to tape 2 or more impacts in a week, and If I recall correctly Dec and Jan were all 4 weeks in 1 week. That means you only work on a 1-4 of days on 24-38 weeks of the yr depending on if the PPVs fall on different weeks and is still a pretty sweet deal. I would also think health insurance for a person working at sunglasses hut is a lot more affordable than being a wrestler so wilde may be working as much for

that as the money. (And I don't think it's fair to suggest Wilde has to work at sunglasses hut BECAUSE she works for TNA an is paid so little. She probably worked a regular job as an indy wrestler too and is probably making out much better now).

 

And while the extra thing is interesting, that still isn't comparable, because I doubt most extras get steady work so maybe 5-10 appearsances a yr as an extra does not pay as well as being in TNA even though it's better per appearance, and I doubt extras get food, lodging, travel or insurance either and they also pay taxes. Extra's are also part of movies that often profit far more than TNA or even WWE probably does in a year so the directors have more money to throw at them.

 

Also as you noted they make more on outside appearances as a result of being in TNA. I would imagine that Kong makes more/appearance now than pre TNA for indy shows so having ever been in TNA still benefits her, although probably not as much as if she'd been in WWE and then left.

 

And, while they may pay for their own gear and travel and whatnot, you do get tax write-offs for that as a business expense, although probably not for food (each individual would have their own business, it's what a lot of dance/martial instructors and entertainers do, and really pretty much everyone should do) so it's still not as bad as it sounds on the surface.

 

While it's not entirely accurate, I'm going to challenge those complaining about reports on TNA's pay. Try playing TEW as TNA and paying everyone better, good luck keeping the company afloat.

 

 

Also seeing Nash in one of the earlier posts is just plain funny as I'm sure he's getting well more than $400/appearance and is probably in the category of people you are complaining about as being overpaid, not to mention that I thought I heard he re-signed within a week after saying that (although I haven't seen him on TV since), as did EY recently.

[Hyde Hill]

This is becomming an endless debate and due to lack of real FACTS and the purely subjective idea of what is FAIR pay it is mainly becoming opinion. I was just pointing out to Blackman that there is no FACTUAL basis to think TNA is paying its UNFAIRLY more or less then any other company in or outside wrestling.

 

And it is a dumb reason to not watch the product just because of that even if it was the case. Stop watching it because of bad booking I can get but not because of that no. Because as soon as you start doing that you have 2 options. Start your own farm/country or die.

 

PS does anyone have the DIRECT link to where Kong said this stuff, I think it could have been on Divadirt? As it could have been all out of context etc stuff as the sheets are want to do.

[eayragt]

This is becomming an endless debate and due to lack of real FACTS and the purely subjective idea of what is FAIR pay it is mainly becoming opinion. I was just pointing out to Blackman that there is no FACTUAL basis to think TNA is paying its UNFAIRLY more or less then any other company in or outside wrestling.

 

But their is strong evidence of TNA pay for some of their stars, so this is what the debate is based on. This is being compared to known's from outside wrestling.

 

At the end of the day pay is a measure of market forces, and evidence suggests that there's a relatively large people who could fill up TNA's lower and midcard, so their pay is pants. They hope to become the next big breakout star and make a living, or be picked up by WWE and get misused... and make a better living. TNA has had pay disputes, or people leaving them because of pay (Kong, Young, Kim). TNA have a right to not increase their contracts, as they know there are people who can and will step in (male wrestlers easily, female wrestlers not quite as easily). Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong. Same way as other businesses can chew up and spit out lower paid workers.

 

Well, in both cases it might be wrong, but hey. Stennick said it best yesterday - he thinks the pay that has been evidenced for some wrestlers along with the no-benefits sucks and he considers it wrong - but still most indy wrestlers would and should jump at the chance to join TNA (I say most as this is US mainly - there's more money to be made more regualrly in Mexico and Japan).

 

Doesn't make it right, but we're not all capitalists. If we can moan at the banks bonuses we can moan at TNA's pay structure (or what we have evidence for of it) too.

[PeterHilton]

PS does anyone have the DIRECT link to where Kong said this stuff, I think it could have been on Divadirt? As it could have been all out of context etc stuff as the sheets are want to do.

 

Of course Hyde refuses to give any acceptance to the "dirt sheets' when it comes to TNA. To his credit I don't see him quoting them against the WWE either. That being said is you can't have your cake and eat it to. YOU can't say "Vince is evil and Trips held everyone down and Vince likes big men" you can't say all that and then turn around and say they are wrong about TNA. The PWtorch is right more than their wrong and since Kong, Taylor Wilde, Gail Kim and SO many others have come out and said this exact same thing I think its pretty fair to lend fact to it.

 

You do actually do that quite a bit Hyde; it's all good to call out 'the rag-sheets' when it's criticism towards TNA but 'journalistic integrity' could be questioned on every subject, in every industry. So unless we're supposed to limit ourselves to talking about ONLY what appears on the screen, it's pointless to bring it up.

Meltzer has been around for as long as has BECAUSE he's been right quite a bit. We're not talking about his opinions (which can be annoyingly snarky) but the sum total of the reports passed around in regards to pay.

 

A few pages back I showed a breakdown of what a TNA performer might make on a three day house show swing, i gave the benefit of the doubt and assumed the fee was even higher than reported, and it still showed that the performer would come out making ...well, not that much.

 

And you guys are picking nits in Stennick's examples and ignoring the over-all point: people in the entertainment industry, who are on national TV on a weekly basis, whether it be as actors or as athletes, even if they are on the lower end of the scale, tend to make a comfortable living.

 

No one expects them to be set for life.

 

But the fact that a midcarder on a national level wrestling program takes home less than a midlevel retail management job...to ME is unfair.

[PeterHilton]

Well, in both cases it might be wrong, but hey. Stennick said it best yesterday - he thinks the pay that has been evidenced for some wrestlers along with the no-benefits sucks and he considers it wrong - but still most indy wrestlers would and should jump at the chance to join TNA (I say most as this is US mainly - there's more money to be made more regualrly in Mexico and Japan).

 

totally agree with this

[Stennick]

there is no FACTUAL basis to think TNA is paying its UNFAIRLY more or less then any other company in or outside wrestling.

 

And it is a dumb reason to not watch the product just because of that even if it was the case.

 

As it could have been all out of context etc stuff as the sheets are want to do.

 

 

Hyde there are more facts that they DON'T pay fairly (Taylor Wilde, Kong, Gail Kim, and countless others, the Flair's wife Limo ride, the Hemme contract etc.) than there are that they DO pay fairly. There are so many articles on how low these performers are paid and I can't find a single one stating the oppposite. If this was not the case I would imagine there would be women standing up SCREAMING "hey thats not right they pay us GREAT" as there would be with any other employer that was being unfairly called out by an employee or former. You see it all the time he said she said but the only saying TNA has going is from Dixie and Eric who by the way Hyde are JUST as bad about being delusioanl liars as the "sheets" as you like to call them if not worse.

 

I agree with you though its a stupid reason not to watch the product I don't watch it for a million other reasons however its also something that should be brought to light. TNA makes such a huge deal when they beat ECW in the ratings or when they have any other success that might present them in the same glimmer of light as the WWE. They strive so hard to be a part of that group. People constantly say they're not competing and I agree they're not competing well. However you can't tell me the failed MOnday night run, the falling over themselves to point out how much better their women and X Division are even their tag teams, the hype they made on live air about beating ECW on ONE occasion in the ratings like it was some sort of huge war that they were finally winning. Like it or not they do try and compete with the WWE what do you think ECW was about? All thsee guys coming on air taking shots at Vince, what do you think the Voodo Kin Mafia was? They have done it COUNTLESS times and they will continue to do it until Bob Carter turns the lights out. They are trying to compete and if you're trying to compete ON AIR you should atleast be a respectable paying company for your size off air and I think I have poited out across both sports and entertainment mediums they are by FAR the lowest paying.

 

Oh by the way the thought occured to me that Beckham has to make more than 19K because the minimum allowed is 33K and I assure you Beckham didn't move his entire family across the pond for 30 Grrr.

 

Also there you go again Hyde with "the sheets take things out of context" and Bischoff doesn't? And Hogan doesn't? And Dixie doesn't? Dixie might be the most delusional of the bunch but yet I never see you get after he when she makes stupid comments on her twitter or wherever else in the media. yet the first time Dave posts him opinion on something or something that you don't like is posted on here about TNA you start screaming "rag sheets this" and "out of context this" and "gossip that". When unless as PH said unless we're going to ONLY talk about what we see on screen then its all out of context. We say "they're not pushing this guy or they're not doing that" how do WE know why they aren't doing that? We don't yet we all still comment on it because thats what wrestling, thats what all sports and entertainment is about having an opinion as a fan.

[PoisonedSuperman]

If they can make more money elsewhere don't you think they would? I mean you're not really forced to sign a contract, now I do understand that you can "out play" or in wrestling case "out grow" your contract but all in all you signed the original so you felt that that was a smart move at the time.

 

And 19k? I WISH I made that much. Especially this year, I'm wayyyy down.

[Slagaholic]

TNA pays their workers so poorly because they have no reason to pay them more. It's that simple.

 

You don't suddenly start paying guys significantly more money because their current pay "not right." Until wrestlers unionize (LOL), or a company with a similar TV deal to TNA opens and begins paying their workers well enough that guys begin leaving TNA to work there (don't hold your breath) the pay rates won't change.

 

This whole argument is silly and holding TNA to a standard no other company is held to. US wages have been stagnant for a while now. There's no reason for TNA to pick up the 'proper pay' flag and run with it other than for the IWC to applaud them in between the vicious bashing of their product and rants about why they don't watch TNA. Get annoyed all you want, but business is business. Raising pay won't raise ratings.

[liontamer]

question:

 

Not sure whether or not it factors into the debate at all, but wondering if anyone saw/read the reason Kaz left WWE so fast after jumping ship.

 

From what I recall, he was undfeated and using the same gimmick as in TNA, so if he got that much more money, I'm wondering why he'd ask for release so fast.

[20LEgend]

Wiki says:

 

"He later revealed that he had asked for his release after realizing that the company had no plans to revamp its cruiserweight division"

[juggaloninjalee]

I thought Kaz made more money in TNA because he could still do indy bookings. Didn't AJ Styles stay with TNA for this reason too?

 

Thought I heard that a long time ago.

[liontamer]

Wiki says:

 

"He later revealed that he had asked for his release after realizing that the company had no plans to revamp its cruiserweight division"

 

That's kind of ironic given that now he's back with TNA and they've more or less buried the X-division

[Slagaholic]

That's kind of ironic given that now he's back with TNA and they've more or less buried the X-division

 

And he's been a big part of the biggest TNA storyline of the past year. I'm sure Kaz isn't too angry about about it.

[sebsplex]

That's kind of ironic given that now he's back with TNA and they've more or less buried the X-division

 

I seem to remember seeing something about the WWE asking him to cut his hair being a factor too.

[Hyde Hill]

In other news:

 

Kaval/ Low- Ki has been released by the E. TNA would do well to (re) sign him if they are serious about rebuilding the X-Division.

 

Gen Me have extended their contracts. Good matches with the Guns but where do they go from here and will they learn to become less spotty?

 

Hogan is back in the hospital. Bad for him but generally good for the product for people of my tastes.

 

And the observer is reporting TNA is looking to tape some Impacts outside the zone. Please TNA get out of the Zone!!!

[TakerNGN74]

TNA was decent in my opinion tonight, I was actually able to watch it tonight because I didn't have my normal Thursday Night schedule. My only problem with the show tonight was The Iron Man Match come on two overtimes was a bit rediculas if you know that you can't do a match in fifteen minutes then don't do it. I know it was scripted that way but it still is annoying. Also the interview with Ken Anderson was pointless in my opinion and it took away from the time that the Main Event could have had. I am praying for just one week where the show is properly timed and they get through everything before reaction starts. It really makes me mad that they start the main event two minutes before they go off of the air only to continue it on reaction. I know that they have had problems with timing of matches etc which is why Reaction was created but come on its a bit rediculas.

[BHK1978]

And the observer is reporting TNA is looking to tape some Impacts outside the zone. Please TNA get out of the Zone!!!

 

Not sure if that is a wise course of actions. Nothing will make them look more bush league than if they hold it outside of the Impact Zone and nobody shows up. When the original ECW used to have TV tapings in Massachusetts they did not draw all that well. Therefore, they would have everyone from the cheap seats move down to the floor to try and make the arena look fuller.

[Bigpapa42]

Not sure that I can ask this question without sounding incredulous and negative... but did TNA really have a 15 minute "Iron Man" match tonight?

[BHK1978]

Not sure that I can ask this question without sounding incredulous and negative... but did TNA really have a 15 minute "Iron Man" match tonight?

 

My thoughts exactly, I was thinking at the minimum an Iron Man match should last a half an hour. Even then I would not really consider that to be an Iron Man match.

[TakerNGN74]

Like I said in my post above it was absolutely pointless to do that because they did the fifteen minutes fine it should have been over after that. No need to go into an overtime because that totally kills the point of an iron man match. Sure when WWE has hour long Iron Man Matches going into overtime makes sense but when you only have an iron man match for fifteen minutes its totally pointless. On top of that Its not really an Iron Man Match unless it is an hour in my opinion thirty minutes maybe but definately an hour.

[The Final Countdown]

Not sure that I can ask this question without sounding incredulous and negative... but did TNA really have a 15 minute "Iron Man" match tonight?

Wow...seriously? I was looking forward to that match, too. 15 mins is just silly. An Iron Man match needs to be AT LEAST 30 minutes. I'd say 30 on TV, 60 if it's on a PPV.

[BHK1978]

Wow...seriously? I was looking forward to that match, too. 15 mins is just silly. An Iron Man match needs to be AT LEAST 30 minutes. I'd say 30 on TV, 60 if it's on a PPV.

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked the match. I just was not an Iron Man match...

[Blackman]

TNA never learns. It would be a great research subject about organisational learning.

[Wrestling Century]

Not sure if that is a wise course of actions. Nothing will make them look more bush league than if they hold it outside of the Impact Zone and nobody shows up. When the original ECW used to have TV tapings in Massachusetts they did not draw all that well. Therefore, they would have everyone from the cheap seats move down to the floor to try and make the arena look fuller.

 

If I remember correctly, the last time TNA held shows out of the Impact Zone didn't draw good. It was when Samoa Joe was the world champ, if my memory is correct.

[20LEgend]

Not watched all the show but I'm I imagining that when Ric Flair is in a promo he always seems to want to out in another word when it's another's promo time, when Foley threw down his mic he stopped himself from saying something and although it may have just have been to show the anger it seems like Flair/Foley is improvised (or semi-improvised.) Does anyone else think that Flair's interuptions are just him trying to get an extra word in on the other guys time as it seems like people have to struggle to get a point across and have to start it about 5 times before he lets them get it out:p