Official NFL Discussion Thread

[Candyman]

Uh, no, sorry, I can't agree with that first statement.

 

The top two QBs in the league right now (in order) are Peyton and Drew Brees. Peyton only edges Brees because he calls his own plays a lot of the time. Brady is third and his grip on the position is tenuous because he hasn't performed up to the standard he set for himself. Yes, he had a pretty bad team overall last year but he put up his early career numbers with the likes of Deon Branch as #1 receiver. No one is going to put Deon Branch in the same category as even an unmotivated Randy Moss.

 

Palmer is indeed injury prone, but he's a solid starting quarterback. I wouldn't put him in the discussion for top-3 because he hasn't done what tends to exemplify a top-3 QB.

 

This is...mostly correct. To me, #1 right now is Drew Brees. I don't know where people got this notion that he only had one good season, but let's just bust that right now. Last year was his SIXTH great season in a row. He's had six seasons with a QB rating over 90, four over 95, and two over 100. More on that later...

 

Peyton is a close second (I can tolerate arguments that he's ahead of Brees - I just don't put as much stock into calling his own plays as others do), and then there's everybody else. Tom Brady - I will not tolerate an argument that he's ahead of either Brees or Manning, and I like Brady a lot - needs to show that he can recover from the knee injury and get back to his old form before he's in that discussion again. Because it's not a guarantee - see Palmer, who was mentioned. Before his knee injury, he was well on his way to the Manning/Brady (at the time) class, and he just hasn't gotten back to that level since he got hurt. He's been good, a Pro Bowler at times, but never in the dicussion for best in the league like he was. Maybe Brady will get that back, maybe he won't.

 

Doubt it. I don't tend to judge a quarterback by a single season of stats without qualification. To me, Peyton is still #1 because, as I mentioned, he calls his own plays. That is huge. People who get all dizzy on stats would be fooled into thinking Kyle Orton was an excellent quarterback. Ben has two rings and decent stats but is he a top 5 QB? I don't think so, because his leadership can easily be called into question. As I said, I wouldn't say Drew is 3rd (and especially not FOURTH) but #2 isn't a bad spot to be in.

 

To me, Drew Brees still has to prove that he's not simply a system QB. He wasn't this good in San Diego but once he hooked up with Sean Payton, look out! Peyton, on the other hand, has always been Peyton, since the day he was drafted, regardless of coach or OC. I always root for Drew though because he's the antithesis of the NFL's quarterback template. Just like Sam Mills, Jessie Tuggle, Doug Flutie, and all the others who didn't fit their position's little box, it's always good to see desire completely invalidate "conventional wisdom".

 

Sometimes people forget so quickly...go look at his last two seasons in San Diego. He WAS this good - his numbers weren't as big because they didn't pass as much (remember, they had LT in his prime), but a TD-INT ratio of 51-22 is every bit as good as his 122-57 under Payton. His yards-per-completion and completion percentage are right there, too.

 

And I think you'd be surprised by how average Peyton was before Dungy got there(he's had the same OC his entire career). He had the yards, sure, but he also turned the ball over more often than he put it in the endzone. Can't win like that - and they didn't. Once he learned to protect the ball, they started doing things nobody in the history of the sport has done...until they get to the playoffs, anyway. If Peyton wants to be in the all-time great discussion, he needs to put together three or four good games in the playoffs. They had no business being in Super Bowl XLI based on their QB play, their defense got them there and he was just good enough to win it. And we all saw what he did in the Super Bowl last year.

[GatorBait19]

I still think Brady is 1

 

I don't pick a great QB based off stats because stats can lie.

 

Brady is 3 of 4 in Superbowls, there is still no other QB I would want when the game is on the line (who plays right now)

 

If you do it purely off of numbers for the last 9 years Peyton is really only beating Tom by 1 season..... What..... Tom only played one game in one of those 9 season.....

 

 

Brady's career record is 97-30 in the Regular season and 14-4 in the playoffs including 3-1 in the superbowl.

 

Manning's career record for just 9 season is (01-02 till now) 105- 39 (remind you Brady was out of 08-09) and his playoff record is 9-9 and 1-1 in the Superbowl

 

See your arguement is weird about Manning calling his plays because most coaches have let Favre call his own plays as well and he is 1-1 in the superbowl to, I have even read that Brady as called plays himself along with Big Ben.

 

But a winner is more important than a guy who can win an MVP every year and if you add the one year Brady was hurt into the mix he still would have had more wins and less loses

[LoganRodzen]

I'm biased because I hate the Patriots with a passion. Brady hit legendary status because of the '07 season - he'll never get close to those stats again. I would bet everything I own and the air in my lungs that the Patriots will not get to another Super Bowl with Tom Brady as their QB. The dynasty years are over.

[GatorBait19]

Thought Remi would get a kick out of this

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/13774/the-new-york-super-bowl-debate

[The Final Countdown]

I can't believe anyone could argue that Brady is #1 right now. You can definitely make an argument for him having the best career among active QBs, but as far as the here and now is concerned, it's Manning & Brees, and everybody else.

[BHK1978]

I'm biased because I hate the Patriots with a passion. Brady hit legendary status because of the '07 season - he'll never get close to those stats again. I would bet everything I own and the air in my lungs that the Patriots will not get to another Super Bowl with Tom Brady as their QB. The dynasty years are over.

 

You mean that there is someone else from New England that hates the Patriots! Cool!

 

I agree with the dynasty years being over and soon will be the time when the Patriot "fans" jump off the bandwagon and seek other teams to cheer on.

[GatorBait19]

I can't believe anyone could argue that Brady is #1 right now. You can definitely make an argument for him having the best career among active QBs, but as far as the here and now is concerned, it's Manning & Brees, and everybody else.

 

To me Brees is not close to Tom and Peyton, because Tom and Peyton would never let a bad defense hold them down, Tom and Peyton would never let there teams go 7-9 or 8-8.

 

But this arguement will be had through the end of their careers. Some will pick Manning, others Brees. I choose Brady because I like the underdog who wasn't drafted to be the franchise guy. I like a winner

 

Manning and Brees have both won Superbowls, they have both had talented Wideouts. Brady won three and until Moss and Welker never had those franchise type WR.

 

But again, this is something we could argue about forever and never get anywhere

[lazorbeak]

Manning and Brees have both won Superbowls, they have both had talented Wideouts. Brady won three and until Moss and Welker never had those franchise type WR.

 

But again, this is something we could argue about forever and never get anywhere

 

I can agree that Manning has had some amazing receivers but do you really think Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are in the same class as Marques Colston and Robert Meachum?

[GatorBait19]

I can agree that Manning has had some amazing receivers but do you really think Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are in the same class as Marques Colston and Robert Meachum?

 

You have to remember Colston is considered a top ten WR in the league by most NFL experts. The only reason his numbers don't reflex it is because of the fact that Saints run a spread offense and truly to spread the ball. You also have to remember that Meachem was a first round pick and is only going into his third year.

 

But right now if you were a QB which group would you rather have to throw to? Saints (Meachem, Colston, Bush, Shockey) or Colts (Wayne, Clark, Addi, Gonzalez, Collie)

[GatorBait19]

Santonio Holmes already disagreeing with his teammates and coaching staff lol

 

Holmes comments:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5205711

 

Ryans:

 

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/05/jets-rex-ryan-says-super-bowl-should-be-played-in-new-york/1

 

Lol I know this is nothing but when your owner is trying to get something to happen, coming out and saying it shouldn't happen is quite funny

 

interesting though is how now most arguements aren't about the cold, it's now about fairness of the game.

 

M. Faulk said yesterday on NFL network that if the Dolphins were to make it playing the Giants or Packers how would it be a level playing field for the fins when they aren't use to the weather and the Northern teams are.

 

He then went on to say that Northern teams like the Pats and Steelers have faired well in warm weather superbowl games.

 

This will be interesting as we are only 4 days away from the announcement

[GatorBait19]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818415ad&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

 

okay couple things

 

1) if a new open aired stadium was made, game like SEC title game and others like that would probably rather play there

 

2) I have been in the Dome many of times, and while it isn't the best it also isn't the worst.

 

I get why ATL would build their Falcons (even though they just had back to back winning seasons) a new stadium

 

1) because you build a nice big stadium Super is in your sites

 

2) They could do better than the Dome

 

 

 

I just don't understand it myself because even if the new stadium was built in 7 years the Dome would only be 25, people like Vikes, 9ers and company must be kicking themselves because they have won Superbowls and have had several great teams and can't even tip toe towards a new stadium without someone objecting.

 

But ATL seems to be right on board, so go Falcons if you get it

[LoganRodzen]

To me Brees is not close to Tom and Peyton, because Tom and Peyton would never let a bad defense hold them down, Tom and Peyton would never let there teams go 7-9 or 8-8.

 

But this arguement will be had through the end of their careers. Some will pick Manning, others Brees. I choose Brady because I like the underdog who wasn't drafted to be the franchise guy. I like a winner

 

Manning and Brees have both won Superbowls, they have both had talented Wideouts. Brady won three and until Moss and Welker never had those franchise type WR.

 

But again, this is something we could argue about forever and never get anywhere

 

For historical accuracy - Peyton lead his team to a 5-10 record in 2001. The same year Mr Overhype (one of the many nicknames I have for Brady) made it to the Super Bowl and won it. I would have preferred to see the team who beat my Titans a year before win for the second year in a row.

 

I'll agree that Brady didn't have any "name" WRs when he started. The one he did - Terry Glenn - was suspended during that '01 season. To say Troy Brown wasn't a good WR would be BS, but he certainly played a bigger role in the return game.

 

To say he didn't have any receivers for the two other Super Bowls isn't correct. He had Deion Branch, David Patten, and David Givens. Having a big TE like David Graham was a big thing for them as well because they didn't use the spread offense at the time. He had all four of them for the two SB wins ('03 and '04).

 

Also - whose had the best defense throughout their starting career? Tom Brady. Period.

[GatorBait19]

For historical accuracy - Peyton lead his team to a 5-10 record in 2001. The same year Mr Overhype (one of the many nicknames I have for Brady) made it to the Super Bowl and won it. I would have preferred to see the team who beat my Titans a year before win for the second year in a row.

 

I'll agree that Brady didn't have any "name" WRs when he started. The one he did - Terry Glenn - was suspended during that '01 season. To say Troy Brown wasn't a good WR would be BS, but he certainly played a bigger role in the return game.

 

To say he didn't have any receivers for the two other Super Bowls isn't correct. He had Deion Branch, David Patten, and David Givens. Having a big TE like David Graham was a big thing for them as well because they didn't use the spread offense at the time. He had all four of them for the two SB wins ('03 and '04).

 

Also - whose had the best defense throughout their starting career? Tom Brady. Period.

 

he went 6-10, it was Jim Mora's last seaon, so I was wrong Manning has had 2 losing seasons. Brees has had 2 or 3 while Tom has never had any

 

 

and yes he had Deion Branch, Patten, and Givens...... now what have those three done without him? my thing is while he has had WR, before Moss and Welker he never had a WR that scares you like a Colston, Wayne, Harrison type

 

Troy Brown was a dependable wideout, who played whatever the team needed him to play

[LoganRodzen]

he went 6-10, it was Jim Mora's last seaon, so I was wrong Manning has had 2 losing seasons. Brees has had 2 or 3 while Tom has never had any

 

 

and yes he had Deion Branch, Patten, and Givens...... now what have those three done without him? my thing is while he has had WR, before Moss and Welker he never had a WR that scares you like a Colston, Wayne, Harrison type

 

Troy Brown was a dependable wideout, who played whatever the team needed him to play

 

Not sure why I put 5-10 when clearly the season is 16 games. I plead type-o!

 

You have to admit that sometimes a set of receivers working together is better than having a franchise WR and two mediocre players. I think with the Patriots they just all clicked with Brady. They sure made it work.

[GatorBait19]

Not sure why I put 5-10 when clearly the season is 16 games. I plead type-o!

 

You have to admit that sometimes a set of receivers working together is better than having a franchise WR and two mediocre players. I think with the Patriots they just all clicked with Brady. They sure made it work.

 

valid point, my biggest thing was his first year he didn't have that connection and still was able to win.

 

The importance of a QB to me isn't stats, Terry Bradshaw had horrible stats. To me what makes a QB stand out so much is his ability to win, adversity, and to come fall into a pile of crap and come out smelling like roses.

 

as much as I love Manning and wanted to put him there, his SB performance wouldn't let me.

 

Brees is a great QB as well, but those two bad season with the Saints and hurt his image for that.

 

Like I said I want a winner, which I why I like someone like Jeff Garcia, he puts his body on the line to give his team that chance every game

[LoganRodzen]

valid point, my biggest thing was his first year he didn't have that connection and still was able to win.

 

The importance of a QB to me isn't stats, Terry Bradshaw had horrible stats. To me what makes a QB stand out so much is his ability to win, adversity, and to come fall into a pile of crap and come out smelling like roses.

 

as much as I love Manning and wanted to put him there, his SB performance wouldn't let me.

 

Brees is a great QB as well, but those two bad season with the Saints and hurt his image for that.

 

Like I said I want a winner, which I why I like someone like Jeff Garcia, he puts his body on the line to give his team that chance every game

 

 

Can't argue with you on that one. Why do I love scrambling QBs so much? For that exact reason. They'll take the hit if it gets them the first down. It takes me back to The Replacements - that QB who Falco replaces does a baseball slide when he could have dove for the first down. What an awesome movie. I will survive!

[GatorBait19]

Can't argue with you on that one. Why do I love scrambling QBs so much? For that exact reason. They'll take the hit if it gets them the first down. It takes me back to The Replacements - that QB who Falco replaces does a baseball slide when he could have dove for the first down. What an awesome movie. I will survive!

 

I remember when the Bucs stumbled at the end of 08-09 and people blamed Garcia, but all I saw was that man put his body on the line for the team

[GatorBait19]

NFL Loses Big

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5214509

 

The case hurt, but what it really does is give the players leverage again in the CBA meetings.

 

Hopefully with this done we will here more talks of a CBA being ironed out

[LoganRodzen]

I had to throw this in a more football appropriate thread so that it doesn't take up the basketball thread. It made sense.

 

lol, I believe it's for protection of high school players. Kind of why I never understood NCAA and NFL don't follow the same rules?

 

I think the rule changes between the two games make it really interesting. College OT is awesome and nobody can deny that. It also makes it so that when players come into the NFL they have to adapt completely and that includes rule changes. I think college football is made to be more "fun" if that makes any sense. It has more leeway than the NFL does and that's why you see so many coaches staying in the college ranks instead of moving to the NFL teams.

 

Besides Pete Carroll who is going into a perfect situation - an entire new staff including GM makes a completely fresh start. That doesn't happen often.

[GatorBait19]

I had to throw this in a more football appropriate thread so that it doesn't take up the basketball thread. It made sense.

 

 

 

I think the rule changes between the two games make it really interesting. College OT is awesome and nobody can deny that. It also makes it so that when players come into the NFL they have to adapt completely and that includes rule changes. I think college football is made to be more "fun" if that makes any sense. It has more leeway than the NFL does and that's why you see so many coaches staying in the college ranks instead of moving to the NFL teams.

 

Besides Pete Carroll who is going into a perfect situation - an entire new staff including GM makes a completely fresh start. That doesn't happen often.

 

I agree that College is more exciting, I just wished they would do down by contact, and two feet in for a catch

[GatorBait19]

Great thing is we find out the Super Bowl today.

[LoganRodzen]

I agree that College is more exciting, I just wished they would do down by contact, and two feet in for a catch

 

I think the one foot is good because it's one of those things they have to adapt to. Most of them try and get two feet nowadays anyway.

[GatorBait19]

I think the one foot is good because it's one of those things they have to adapt to. Most of them try and get two feet nowadays anyway.

 

true, I just always thought it'd help the players if they didn't have to focus on learning new rules, but I get where you are coming from.

[CQI13]

It's funny how people here in South Florida are complaining about NY possibly getting a Super Bowl (mostly talk show hosts stirring stuff up) because of what Goodell apparently told the Dolphins (get a roof, get a SB) then giving NY a SB without a roof. As far as I remember, he said make improvements to the stadium (Here's an idea...pave the parking lots after 25 years of being unpaved!). Also, the host was crying about "Oh, the poor taxpayers would be on the hook for the roof." Not if the owners pay for it. Funniest comment ever by the way:

 

"When did the NFL become politics, where the owners are given a kickback for building stadiums?"

 

No wonder the guy doesn't have a weekday shift.

[PeterHilton]

I think the rule changes between the two games make it really interesting. College OT is awesome and nobody can deny that. It also makes it so that when players come into the NFL they have to adapt completely and that includes rule changes. I think college football is made to be more "fun" if that makes any sense. It has more leeway than the NFL does and that's why you see so many coaches staying in the college ranks instead of moving to the NFL teams.

 

Besides Pete Carroll who is going into a perfect situation - an entire new staff including GM makes a completely fresh start. That doesn't happen often.

 

College OT is a joke. I like watching football - with defense - not some cartoony NFL Blitz amalgamation of football.

 

And the idea that college football coaches stay because it's more "fun" is asinine. They stay because it's easier. The gameplanning is simpler. There are limits on practice time.

 

If you can recruit better and are at a bigger and/or better school you are going to beat your opponent 9 times out 10 based on talent alone. That's why guys like Bobby Petrino and Nick Saban and Steve Spurrier run away crying ...you can't just line up your guys and hope your best 11 beats their best 11.

 

Carroll is going to be a bust. He wasn't an X's and O's guy at USC. That rah rah crap doesn't play with grown men. And he addressed his biggest weakness - offense - by bringing in a guy who wasn't much of a success at the NCAA level instead of hiring an NFL guy. It'll be embarasing within three seasons.