Official NFL Discussion Thread

[Warhawk8492]

I am officially pissed off

[Makhai]

My late uncle was Native American and I remember asking him years ago about this. His quote was, "Nobody cares about it, most are indifferent." I think that may hold true. Granted it is not a fact, it was just what he said about the people that he knew.

 

Part of me wonders if this is not a bunch of white activists calling for the change of the name over guilt. It does seem that is often the case, a small group of people complains about something but they are really loud about it and thus it amplifies and it makes it seem like more people support their cause than actually do.

 

Or, you could stop using the most tired rhetoric and look up how the "Redskins" got their name. Reflexively say "dear god" and just stop complaining because you're used to something abhorrent, and that inertia doesn't change the fact the brand is worthless and it would be better on literally every conceivable level to ditch it for any other generic animal on the planet. That shouldn't require an angry mob to change. And guess what? It wouldn't anyway. The reason they're changing it is to appease sponsors who refuse to work with them because they refuse to change the name. So blame Kraft foods for not wanting to be the official mac & cheese of the Washington Professional Football Team. Because they don't want their brand associated with that crap.

 

People need to stop politicizing the most common, of common sense. And people, in general, need to take more pride in their future and stop trying to defend their indefensible past. Make new history you can be proud of. Stop wallowing in the time you tried to destroy our more perfect union to preserve the ownership of human beings. But that's a different topic altogether.

[Warhawk8492]

Cancel culture is toxic

[cappyboy]

Cancel culture is toxic

 

True that. But given the origin story that Brother Swanton related, I gotta say I would have been on board a lot sooner with this name change were said tale public knowledge rather than just obscure team trivia.

[BHK1978]

Seriously last time I will speak on the topic, I was quoted so I am just going to say this and that will be the end of it from me.

 

Or, you could stop using the most tired rhetoric and look up how the "Redskins" got their name.

 

Or you could stop making assumptions about others. I know full well how they got their name. As I said previously, my point was that I was under the impression that the vast majority of Native Americans either did not care about the name or were indifferent about the name. Now I freely admit that I could be wrong about that.

 

With that being my impression I further felt like if the group that the slur is supposed to offend did not/does not offend the vast majority of the people in that group. Then why does the name need to be changed?

 

Was it the Native Americans who wanted it changed or was it the woke activists who wanted it changed so they could chalk up a win the culture war?

 

If it was the former then yes I am all for the change. If it is driven by the activist then I am far less inclined to support it because I honestly believe that most of them do not care about it and they are just doing it to as previously stated, chalk up a win in the culture war.

 

It is a moot point either way because the name change is going to happen.

 

The reason they're changing it is to appease sponsors who refuse to work with them because they refuse to change the name. So blame Kraft foods for not wanting to be the official mac & cheese of the Washington Professional Football Team. Because they don't want their brand associated with that crap.

 

You don't say. Wow, I wish I would have thought of that before...

 

They are going to cave, they have no choice in the matter. They are messing with their ad revenue.

 

Oh, wait I guess I did. I guess you did not go far enough back in the thread.

 

And people, in general, need to take more pride in their future and stop trying to defend their indefensible past.

 

If the future that is coming is a world where there is no freedom of speech and we are told what we can say, what we are allowed to watch, what we are allowed to read. Then that is no future I would have any pride in. That sort of future sounds a little too close to Germany in the 1930s for my liking.

 

Stop wallowing in the time you tried to destroy our more perfect union to preserve the ownership of human beings. But that's a different topic altogether.

 

Yes it is a different topic and it has nothing to do with what we were talking about, yet you brought it up anyway. You did not direct it at me but it was put in a post about my post so it might as well have been meant for me.

 

First off my family was not in American during that time period so I have no fondness for that era. Also, I will say this, if a group is defeated in war there should be no statues of the people who lost erected in the country of the victors.

 

Back to Football, I honestly do not even want to see the season happen this year. It is far too risky for the players. With all of the sweat, spit, and lack of social distancing I think it is a disaster waiting to happen. I would not blame any player who does not want to take the risk.

[Makhai]

My last word on this.

 

 

Or you could stop making assumptions about others. I know full well how they got their name. As I said previously, my point was that I was under the impression that the vast majority of Native Americans either did not care about the name or were indifferent about the name. Now I freely admit that I could be wrong about that.

 

Here's the problem here. Native Americans don't exist anymore. There are a few small tribal outlets that are fiercely independent after 300 years of violence, abuse, forced relocation, forced assimilation, and reparations. They probably don't care, or if they do care, they won't tell you they do. They spend their days trying to put back together what we took from them.

 

My point here is, why the hell do they have to be upset at all? Why are the ordinary people not disgusted with the origins of the name, the history of the football team, and the ownership who cherishes it? Why can't we as a nation just do better for the sake of it? Why do I need to poll Native Americans? Or be forced by them to act? We can do better, enough people care to force others to act, the end.

 

With that being my impression I further felt like if the group that the slur is supposed to offend did not/does not offend the vast majority of the people in that group. Then why does the name need to be changed?

 

Was it the Native Americans who wanted it changed or was it the woke activists who wanted it changed so they could chalk up a win the culture war?

 

Culture has always been a war. The entire purpose of it is to ostracize individualize and ritualize within a collective. The whole idea of this "woke" movement, as you call it, is heavily supported. And that why it's winning. You pretend its a small group of whiny kids. But in fact, it's like 60-80% of the country. With a core of activists that are the engine of it. Just like any movement in society. Hell, there's a core group of people who lead men's rights groups like The Return of the Kings. That always try and march random places and you know how that ends? With a wave of people telling them to go away. A much, much bigger wave. Because that's how this all works. The groups with the biggest reach win. That's how our democracy works, in theory. You can usually tell who's got the biggest reach by who is getting their way on the whole. So the idea that this isn't broadly supported is just ludicrous, it really is. Most people in this country either A)don't care, either way, B) really want it to change or C) Don't care, but don't want the libtards to win. And I don't know about you, but that sure seems to point to one obvious outcome if we're talking about the thing, and not the politics of the thing.

 

If it was the former then yes I am all for the change. If it is driven by the activist then I am far less inclined to support it because I honestly believe that most of them do not care about it and they are just doing it to as previously stated, chalk up a win in the culture war.

 

It is a moot point either way because the name change is going to happen.

 

You are right about one thing. It is a moot point. It's going to change. P.S Does anybody remember what St. John's used to be known as? I remember the fall out over that when I was a kid. I bet if I polled people now nobody would remember. It will be weird for like, 3 games and then you will get used to it and that will be that.

 

You don't say. Wow, I wish I would have thought of that before...

 

 

 

Oh, wait I guess I did. I guess you did not go far enough back in the thread.

 

And yet, you continue to whine about the plurality of power who eventually convinced a nationalist football company to change against its will.

 

If the future that is coming is a world where there is no freedom of speech and we are told what we can say, what we are allowed to watch, what we are allowed to read. Then that is no future I would have any pride in. That sort of future sounds a little too close to Germany in the 1930s for my liking.

 

Just L.O.L here.

 

 

Yes it is a different topic and it has nothing to do with what we were talking about, yet you brought it up anyway. You did not direct it at me but it was put in a post about my post so it might as well have been meant for me.

 

First off my family was not in American during that time period so I have no fondness for that era. Also, I will say this, if a group is defeated in war there should be no statues of the people who lost erected in the country of the victors.

 

Because the transitive of the transitive is always about you? So by this logic, everything is always about you. But I digress.

 

No, they shouldn't be down because the union prevailed. They shouldn't be up because of the reason they are up in the first place. Statues have meaning. And for the overwhelmingly vast majority of these confederate statues, they went up to commemorate not Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis or the Confederacy, or the preservation of states' rights. They went up in the 1920s and 30s when the novel The Clansmen was written, and the movie The Birth of a Nation was the talk of the town. Wilson called that thing "History made into Lightning."

 

They send a message in the same way the burning cross or the noose was meant to. And that is, we're still here. You look throughout history at things like the Tulsa Race Riots where hundreds of human beings were killed, women raped in the streets, property destroyed, an entire district of a city razed to the ground. And white-controlled insurance companies refusing to payout. And almost nobody was convicted of anything. Why? Because a black guy looked at a white woman funny. That's the era these statues went up. That's what those statues mean to the people they mean anything to. And we can all stop pretending otherwise. The reason I brought this up was to illustrate it's the same craft from a different mouth. And this is twice as embarrassing, because of how meaningless the name of a football team is. A 100-year-old statue at least has the value of antiquity.

 

 

Back to Football, I honestly do not even want to see the season happen this year. It is far too risky for the players. With all of the sweat, spit, and lack of social distancing I think it is a disaster waiting to happen. I would not blame any player who does not want to take the risk.

 

This we agree on. College teams are getting crushed, The "bubble" idea sounds like a recipe for disaster. Someone is going to die, the number of dice being thrown here is astronomical and at least one of them will roll snake-eyes eventually. Some of these players are worth Billions. This is lunacy.

[cappyboy]

 

Back to Football, I honestly do not even want to see the season happen this year. It is far too risky for the players. With all of the sweat, spit, and lack of social distancing I think it is a disaster waiting to happen. I would not blame any player who does not want to take the risk.

 

Right there with you. Just call it off and gets y'all's heads on straight. The league has had months and months to figure out all the logistics on this and they're waiting to the eleventh hour? With rookies due to report this weekend and camps to be fully open the next? Ridiculous. Be smart, call it off and reload for next year. It doesn't even seem possible they can practice effectively much less hold games.

[Dalton]

Well, it looks like a name change is somehow the smallest problem for Washington...

[The Swanton825]

It seems like it'd be appropriate for the rename to be the Washington Dumpster Fires at this point.

[Wrestling Century]

Culture has always been a war. The entire purpose of it is to ostracize individualize and ritualize within a collective. The whole idea of this "woke" movement, as you call it, is heavily supported. And that why it's winning. You pretend its a small group of whiny kids. But in fact, it's like 60-80% of the country. With a core of activists that are the engine of it. Just like any movement in society. Hell, there's a core group of people who lead men's rights groups like The Return of the Kings. That always try and march random places and you know how that ends? With a wave of people telling them to go away. A much, much bigger wave. Because that's how this all works. The groups with the biggest reach win. That's how our democracy works, in theory. You can usually tell who's got the biggest reach by who is getting their way on the whole. So the idea that this isn't broadly supported is just ludicrous, it really is.

 

I just checked into this thread to see how people have been reacting, and while I don't exactly care about football, nor do I care about the name change, this quoted part isn't true where I am. I don't live in the boonies, and most people just won't comment, but get them one on one and I keep hearing similar things. That this all started good, but has gotten ridiculous, but they feel like if they say anything they will be fired (most people where I'm from work for corporations).

 

Again, I actually think the name change is good (or at least not bad or a big deal), but this idea that most people support this, well maybe it is different where you live, but all age groups and backgrounds I've talked to, that seems to be the general consensus.

[Makhai]

I just checked into this thread to see how people have been reacting, and while I don't exactly care about football, nor do I care about the name change, this quoted part isn't true where I am. I don't live in the boonies, and most people just won't comment, but get them one on one and I keep hearing similar things. That this all started good, but has gotten ridiculous, but they feel like if they say anything they will be fired (most people where I'm from work for corporations).

 

Again, I actually think the name change is good (or at least not bad or a big deal), but this idea that most people support this, well maybe it is different where you live, but all age groups and backgrounds I've talked to, that seems to be the general consensus.

 

I think you'll find you have bigger long term problems than voicing your displeasure at a football team name change. You're about a decade from ringing in hard socialism because of greed, corruption, and fiduciary malpractice. Maybe want to re-evalutate your priorities.

[Makhai]

It seems like it'd be appropriate for the rename to be the Washington Dumpster Fires at this point.

 

Fish always rots from the head down.

[Imarevenant]

I am against any change. The name has been here since the 1930s and has so much history. Most Native Americans don't find it offensive according to a survey by the Washington Post.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

 

 

One poll conducted by the Washington Post to be published in the Washington Post is interesting on face value.

 

However, I put more stock into vetted research that is published in Academic journals such as this study here

 

The reason I put more stock in the actual academic research is that they actually do look at how various constructs such as age, political affiliation, and most importantly on this issue, how a sense of cultural identity effects their participants feelings on this issue. In contrast the Washington Post merely conducting a phone survey with Self-Identified Native Americans in their "study" (seriously a 3 point Scale was used in the WP survey; embarrassing for a topic such as this).

 

The Berkeley study actually explored feelings toward the team name "Washington Redskins" and the general use of Native Mascots. Suffice to say in the Berkeley study they found that Native Americans were significantly more likely to be offended by the name then be not offended. 49% as opposed to 38% (the other 13% were on the fence and thus not placed in either the offended or not offended category). That is a vast difference from the Washington post survey which claims that 90% of Native Americans are not offended.

 

Breaking it down further individuals who had a strong sense of identity centrality (ie. they identified strongly with being native american and in most cases partook in tribal custom and culture as being Native American was central to their sense of self) were even more significantly offended by the name Washington Redskins. I can't give you clean % for your comparison just know that the B or (rate of change) measurement in the regression analysis conducted showed a rate of .07 for those who merely met the legal criteria to be classified as Native American while those who actively engaged in customs and tribal activities showed a B of .3. So there is a significantly stronger association with Offense to the Washington Redskins name among those with a stronger central identity of Native American.

 

Basically those who strongly identified with being Native American were much more likely to be offended by the Washington Redskins name than were those who fit the Legal Criteria to be classified as Native American yet participated in no tribal customs or activity. So please, take these non-academic, non-vetted, surveys with a huge grain of salt. They are not showing you the thoughts and feelings of those who actually strongly identify as Native American and instead take a blanket approach to show you how those who "self-identify" as Native American feel, regardless of their connection to that identity to begin with.

[BHK1978]

Dana Stubblefield, what the hell? I am not sure why I did not hear of this case before but damn, what a sick person.

[KeyserSoze]

I wish i was the Washington owner. I would calle the team Washington Soviets. A hammer and sickle as NFL logo would be glorious.

[Jaysin]

I am so happy I'm crying uncontrollably.

 

The Cleveland freaking Browns beat the Steelers IN Pittsburgh in a PLAY OFF GAME!

 

First win in Pittsburgh in 17 years.

 

First playoff win in 26 years.

 

The ultimate underdog story continues in Kansas City.

[The Swanton825]

Everyone who isn't a Steelers fan should appreciate how magical it was for the Browns to completely destroy Pittsburgh. Just please don't turn into what Saints fans turned into after they won the Super Bowl.

[Jaysin]

Everyone who isn't a Steelers fan should appreciate how magical it was for the Browns to completely destroy Pittsburgh. Just please don't turn into what Saints fans turned into after they won the Super Bowl.

 

The best part is Cleveland destroyed them after Juju buried the Browns in an interview AND the Browns had third and fourth string linemen playing. Baker actually met one of the linemen for the first time yesterday. Our head coach, o line coach, and assistant o line coach were all in quarantine as well.

 

Also, seeing Big Ben crying on the bench at the end while the rest of his team and coaching staff shook Browns players and coaches hands was magical. That man has terrorized us for YEARS and we finally get our revenge.

[Jaysin]

<p>I'm cautiously optimistic about the Browns/Chiefs game this weekend and actually found someone to switch shifts with me so I could watch it.</p><p> </p><p>

That said, Urban Meyer is the new head coach for the Jaguars and I'm very excited to see what changes he makes in the off season to then the franchise around.</p><p> </p><p>

If the Jags and Browns are both good next year, I don't even know how I'll handle it if they meet in the playoffs</p>

[Jaysin]

Well the Browns lost in a heartbreaking game, but I am filled with hope for next season. I'll be shocked if Stefanski doesn't win coach of the year.

[The Swanton825]

I was really hoping for a Bills/Browns AFC Championship. The pure fun of being guaranteed to see Buffalo or Cleveland in the Super Bowl would have been amazing. I guess now I'm just down to hoping to watch a Wyoming graduate win the Super Bowl for a long suffering team. Though let's be honest, we'll wind up forced to watch Tom Brady win one more because the universe is cruel.

[Kijar]

I was really hoping for a Bills/Browns AFC Championship. The pure fun of being guaranteed to see Buffalo or Cleveland in the Super Bowl would have been amazing. I guess now I'm just down to hoping to watch a Wyoming graduate win the Super Bowl for a long suffering team. Though let's be honest, we'll wind up forced to watch Tom Brady win one more because the universe is cruel.

 

If Brady topples the impossible-to-hate Josh Allen, the country will collectively droop their heads.

[BHK1978]

I see online that people are now debating who the GOAT is in all of sports between Jordan and Brady. Well now Bill Russell shows up and says, "Hold my beer." and shows his eleven championship rings. Then you have Henri Richard with eleven Stanley Cup victories. Or Yogi Berra with his ten World Series wins.

 

How are Jordan and Brady even in the conversation? Seriously though it is a mindless argument.

 

When people were saying this I immediately said to myself wait a second, what about Bill. I knew for a fact that he won eleven. I also knew Yogi had won a bunch but I did not know off the top of my head just how many he had won. I knew it had to be at least five because the Yankees won five in a row in the 1950's.

 

I also knew there had to be someone from the Canadiens in the mix as well, though I thought it would have been Maurice Richard, not his brother. Though admittedly my knowledge of hockey is very shaky at best. I mean I enjoy it, but I am more of a very casual fan.

 

Like I said, it is a mindless argument but I thought it was funny when Bill was like, "Wait a second I have eleven of these bad boys."

[Jaysin]

Man, I love that football is back, but the second half of the Browns/Chiefs game was hard to enjoy. The Brownies just didn't show up at all in the second half.

 

Heartbreaking opener.