Official NFL Discussion Thread

[GatorBait19]

College OT is a joke. I like watching football - with defense - not some cartoony NFL Blitz amalgamation of football.

 

And the idea that college football coaches stay because it's more "fun" is asinine. They stay because it's easier. The gameplanning is simpler. There are limits on practice time.

If you can recruit better and are at a bigger and/or better school you are going to beat your opponent 9 times out 10 based on talent alone. That's why guys like Bobby Petrino and Nick Saban and Steve Spurrier run away crying ...you can't just line up your guys and hope your best 11 beats their best 11.

 

Carroll is going to be a bust. He wasn't an X's and O's guy at USC. That rah rah crap doesn't play with grown men. And he addressed his biggest weakness - offense - by bringing in a guy who wasn't much of a success at the NCAA level instead of hiring an NFL guy. It'll be embarasing within three seasons.

 

 

I tend to say College coaches stay in college for one reason. In college you can be a god forever (Bobby Bowden, Joe Pa) in NFL you might have a good 5 year run here and there but it's so much harder to maintain a winning level year after year with free agents coming and going

 

And that recruiting thing is a joke, look at Bobby B. during his last 5 years, they kept getting top rated classes and still weren't winning like they should. (2006 #5, 07 #21, 08 #9)

 

Other teams like Gerogia (failed last year even after years of top classes) and Tennessee (been in the top 10 three times in 6 years) were able to put strong classes together and still stunk.

 

But Tennessee after a bad season with Fulmer went to Kiffin and went 7-6 which was an improvement. The running game looked solid throughout the year and Crompton improved as the season went along.

 

To just bases the fact that Recruiting instantly means everything is wrong. If that was the case Notre Dame and USC would never lose. Coaches play a big role in how the games are played.

 

Petrino left because he didn't want to rebuild that team and thought he'd have Vick. Saban left because why..... he has a god complex (wants people to know he's the best, realized in the pros that'd be a litter harder.), Ole' Ball Coach was in over his head, let's face it he wasn't always the best scout (Grossman, Berlin, Cadwell) In fact his best players are two running backs (Taylor and Graham who has done a lot for the Bucs) and some Defensive players who have fallen off over the years.

[CQI13]

College OT is a joke, especially when QBs get 8 TDs from the 25 yd line. One thing I find hilarious is (at least here in South Florida) when they make excuses for Randy Shannon: "Well, the players are young!" With the exception the OU QB that had 6 years of eligibility or Chris Weinke being a college QB at 50, ALL the players are young.

 

Although Peter, winning is fun.

 

Did they announce where the Super Bowl is going to be? Is it in NY?

[PeterHilton]

To just bases the fact that Recruiting instantly means everything is wrong. If that was the case Notre Dame and USC would never lose. Coaches play a big role in how the games are played.

 

 

Not as much as in the NFL.

 

College coaches - even the highly successful ones - more often than not flame out. That's just a fact.

 

And getting better talent IS a big part of the equation. Spurrier - as an example - never really had to gameplan that much because his guys were just better than almost everyone he faced (back then the SEC wasn't the beast it is now; he's probably be in over his head if he'd stayed at Florida as well).

 

Saban left because he failed. Petrino left because he failed. Erickson got fired because he failed. Carroll was a failure. Butch Davis failed. Lou Holtz. Rich Brooks.

 

In college, talent hides your deficiencies as a coach. In the NFL, it doesn't.

[GatorBait19]

College OT is a joke, especially when QBs get 8 TDs from the 25 yd line. One thing I find hilarious is (at least here in South Florida) when they make excuses for Randy Shannon: "Well, the players are young!" With the exception the OU QB that had 6 years of eligibility or Chris Weinke being a college QB at 50, ALL the players are young.

 

Although Peter, winning is fun.

 

Did they announce where the Super Bowl is going to be? Is it in NY?

 

Yes it will be in New York. Won by 4 votes, New York has a lot to live up to in this. First I like this idea because simply it will be a test. If this turns out to be a horrible game and people don't go to the city and hold events (much like what happened in Detroit the two other times. People still came to Florida to do events and just watch the game here, or go up there the day of the game) then this could be the last time there is an open stadium in the cold.

 

Personally I hope the game does well. It would be exciting to watch snow during the Superbowl. I just hope it isn't two south teams that go lol

[lazorbeak]

College OT is a joke. I like watching football - with defense - not some cartoony NFL Blitz amalgamation of football.

 

And the idea that college football coaches stay because it's more "fun" is asinine. They stay because it's easier. The gameplanning is simpler. There are limits on practice time.

 

If you can recruit better and are at a bigger and/or better school you are going to beat your opponent 9 times out 10 based on talent alone. That's why guys like Bobby Petrino and Nick Saban and Steve Spurrier run away crying ...you can't just line up your guys and hope your best 11 beats their best 11.

 

Carroll is going to be a bust. He wasn't an X's and O's guy at USC. That rah rah crap doesn't play with grown men. And he addressed his biggest weakness - offense - by bringing in a guy who wasn't much of a success at the NCAA level instead of hiring an NFL guy. It'll be embarasing within three seasons.

 

I can't stand college football OT either. Yes, sudden death can be unfair, but you still have to play the game. It creates tension and drama that college OT doesn't even approach.

 

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out why college coaches stay: they make similar money, have more control, and don't have to play "fair." There's nothing like the salary cap and nothing to prevent major schools from recruiting ridiculously talented lineups. There's no GM breathing down your neck, no agents calling you up asking for favors for their stars, etc. Because of the way college football works a major team like UT gets about 4 games a season where they're playing guys that they are physically bigger than at literally every position.

 

Which is why the SEC has had so much success: a top team out of the SEC has played several more "real" games than teams in any other conference.

 

For a lot of college coaches, their word suddenly not being law combined with having to play on an even playing field is enough to send them right back down to college.

[BHK1978]

I have always wondered what would happen if a team made it to the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl was being held at their home stadium. Doesn't the NFC and AFC alternate home field every other year?

 

What would happen if the Giants or the Jets were to make it to a Super Bowl held in New York and it is a year where their confrence is the designated away team. That would just be odd being the away team in your home stadium.

[CQI13]

It will be the coldest SB in history. Currently, the Dallas/Miami game (outdoors in New Orleans) has it at 39 degrees at kick off. Isn't the average high on Feb2 in NY lower than that? Then again, with global warming, we might luck out!

[BHK1978]

I have no problem with the SB being held in an open air stadium in the cold North East. I mean after all many of the NFL title games were played up here and they did just fine.

[CQI13]

I don't have the money to buy tickets, so they can hold it wherever they want. LOL

[GatorBait19]

I can't stand college football OT either. Yes, sudden death can be unfair, but you still have to play the game. It creates tension and drama that college OT doesn't even approach.

 

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out why college coaches stay: they make similar money, have more control, and don't have to play "fair." There's nothing like the salary cap and nothing to prevent major schools from recruiting ridiculously talented lineups. There's no GM breathing down your neck, no agents calling you up asking for favors for their stars, etc. Because of the way college football works a major team like UT gets about 4 games a season where they're playing guys that they are physically bigger than at literally every position.

Which is why the SEC has had so much success: a top team out of the SEC has played several more "real" games than teams in any other conference.

 

For a lot of college coaches, their word suddenly not being law combined with having to play on an even playing field is enough to send them right back down to college.

 

Yes and No, they still have to contend with the other major schools. There are still a crap load (some silly) of rules they have to follow. They also have a limited number of scholarships each year they can use (depends on how many they have on team to how many left.). AP are the GM and while they might not breathe, they still pressure.

 

But can we truly say that College football is easier to coach than the pros? Pro coaches have come down to the college and done horrible (Wies, Brooks) and some have done well (Carroll). There are also college coaches who did great things in the NFL (J. Johnson, Green, Coughlin). It is just a much different game.

 

The best article I ever read about how different the game was coaching wise was this one.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2004-11-30-cons-for-pros_x.htm

[PeterHilton]

But can we truly say that College football is easier to coach than the pros?

 

Yes.

 

Because every single person in the business of football who's done both has said so.

[GatorBait19]

Hm, so then why did Pro coaches that came down have trouble (Weis, Brooks)

 

Also, I really just don't think Carroll will be bad in the NFL. He won with the Pats playing the likes of Dan Marino and Bill Parcells 2 times a year. He had a really good draft and the Seahawks aren't far removed from the playoffs in a weak divison.

[Bigpapa42]

Hm, so then why did Pro coaches that came down have trouble (Weis, Brooks)

 

Not every coach moving from the pros to college is going to succeed. Some personalities just won't work and some situations just aren't winnable. Its not like being Head Coach in college is a simple job. Just that its not as demanding or difficult as being an NFL HC. The article you posted makes it sound like the NFL is more difficult, and I don't think I can recall anyone who's done both claiming otherwise.

[PeterHilton]

Hm, so then why did Pro coaches that came down have trouble (Weis, Brooks)

 

 

Weis was a coordinator. I'm talking about head coaches.

 

Why do you keep mentioning Rich Brooks? Considering he was a success at Oregon, struggled with the Rams, then went and turned a crappy little program like Kentucky into a competitive team in the SEC, he proves my point.

 

And as Bigpapa said..that article says specifically in several different ways that the NFL is tougher. Not just different. But tougher.

[Candyman]

NFL Loses Big

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5214509

 

The case hurt, but what it really does is give the players leverage again in the CBA meetings.

 

Hopefully with this done we will here more talks of a CBA being ironed out

 

That was the biggest case in Supreme Court history that nobody ever heard of. It would have changed the face of sports - not the NFL, every professional sport - beyond recognition. (this is why every league and every players' association hired the best lawyers in the world to represent them) Thankfully the Supreme Court gave the only sane ruling they could.

 

College OT is a joke. I like watching football - with defense - not some cartoony NFL Blitz amalgamation of football.

 

And I like watching football where the best team wins, not the team that makes the right call on a coin toss. To each their own.

 

 

Yes it will be in New York. Won by 4 votes, New York has a lot to live up to in this. First I like this idea because simply it will be a test. If this turns out to be a horrible game and people don't go to the city and hold events (much like what happened in Detroit the two other times. People still came to Florida to do events and just watch the game here, or go up there the day of the game) then this could be the last time there is an open stadium in the cold.

 

Personally I hope the game does well. It would be exciting to watch snow during the Superbowl. I just hope it isn't two south teams that go lol

 

What? Detroit was PACKED the entire week the Super Bowl was here the last time. If people went to Florida, it's because there was no room for them here. That's why all the media raved about what a great week it was and the NFL was talking about how Detroit will probably start getting Super Bowls more often.

 

But it's probably going to be the last open air cold Super Bowl anyway...they don't really venture outside of New Orleans and Florida except for when a team gets a new stadium (Arizona, Dallas, Indy), and no northern team is that close to getting one. The Vikings keep asking for one, but they're just as likely to get it in LA and Minneapolis, plus it'll probably have a retractable roof.

 

I can't stand college football OT either. Yes, sudden death can be unfair, but you still have to play the game. It creates tension and drama that college OT doesn't even approach.

 

You mean the coin toss? I guess that's dramatic...other than that, it doesn't come close to the excitement of college football - which, I don't care what anybody says - is every bit as real football as the NFL's sudden death nonsense.. Trying to win a coin toss, hit a big pass or two, run the ball up the middle a couple times, and kick a field goal...that is NOT football. At least in college football, you're trying to score.

 

I have always wondered what would happen if a team made it to the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl was being held at their home stadium. Doesn't the NFC and AFC alternate home field every other year?

 

What would happen if the Giants or the Jets were to make it to a Super Bowl held in New York and it is a year where their confrence is the designated away team. That would just be odd being the away team in your home stadium.

 

The AFC (Jets) will be the "home team" in that Super Bowl, so if the Giants get to the game they'll be in the visitors' dressing room...which wouldn't be THAT odd for them, since they do that when they play the Jets and the Jets are the home team. But yeah, it would be odd...but considering it's the Super Bowl, in your home city, I have a feeling some players wouldn't even notice lol.

 

It will be the coldest SB in history. Currently, the Dallas/Miami game (outdoors in New Orleans) has it at 39 degrees at kick off. Isn't the average high on Feb2 in NY lower than that? Then again, with global warming, we might luck out!

 

The average high is actually 40 degrees, so it could easily be warmer than that...not likely, though.

 

Yes.

 

Because every single person in the business of football who's done both has said so.

 

I've never heard one single person - let alone every single person - say that, and the reason for that is THEY HAVEN'T. Different? Yes. Easier? No.

 

And as Bigpapa said..that article says specifically in several different ways that the NFL is tougher. Not just different. But tougher.

 

Different? Yes. Tougher? Not in the least. It's a different skillset, a different job. So different, in fact, that it would be downright silly to even attempt to argue that one is harder than the other. It's apples and oranges. What might be harder for one person could be easier for another. There's nothing about the NFL that makes it inherently more difficult to coach than college.

[GatorBait19]

Weis was a coordinator. I'm talking about head coaches.

 

Why do you keep mentioning Rich Brooks? Considering he was a success at Oregon, struggled with the Rams, then went and turned a crappy little program like Kentucky into a competitive team in the SEC, he proves my point.

 

And as Bigpapa said..that article says specifically in several different ways that the NFL is tougher. Not just different. But tougher.

 

Weis was still a coach in the NFL, I never said anything about Head Coaches. Brook was 91-109 at Oregon (success?) and yes he manged to turn Kentucky into a 5th best team in the SEC East

[LoganRodzen]

College OT is a joke. I like watching football - with defense - not some cartoony NFL Blitz amalgamation of football.

 

Carroll is going to be a bust. He wasn't an X's and O's guy at USC. That rah rah crap doesn't play with grown men. And he addressed his biggest weakness - offense - by bringing in a guy who wasn't much of a success at the NCAA level instead of hiring an NFL guy. It'll be embarasing within three seasons.

 

How is it a joke? You end up playing continuous OT until there's a winner. In the NFL we get maybe a few good passes and a FG for the win - the losing team feels screwed because they may or may not have had an opportunity to score. In college everyone has a chance and the defense has to play harder than they have the entire game. When you start at the 25 yard line and have to score within the Red Zone - where defenses play their BEST - how is that a joke? Please elaborate.

 

Defense wins championships in the NFL, but offenses win championships in NCAA.

 

That's a pretty bold prediction about Carroll considering the season is months and months away. The division he's in is crap, he had a good draft, he's a defensive-minded coach, and he walked into the PERFECT SITUATION. If he's gone after three seasons I'd be surprised because the entire Seahawks staff would be gone as well... considering the franchise is practically starting fresh this year with a new GM and coaching staff.

[PeterHilton]

I've never heard one single person - let alone every single person - say that, and the reason for that is THEY HAVEN'T. Different? Yes. Easier? No.

 

OK..one..are you guys reading the same article? I feel like you're not. Because we're referencing a piece that contains about 20 quotes from people in the league that all said it was harder to succeed in the NFL.

 

Look..I'll give you examples:

 

"I go with the idea that if you can coach, you can coach at any level," Green says. "But I do think a guy coming into the pro game without any experience as a pro assistant has a more difficult time."

 

"I gave this advice to Butch when he was thinking of going to Cleveland," Johnson says. "'Don't count on having the same success in Cleveland that we had in Dallas. Things fell right for us. You can stay at Miami, you probably won't make as much money and you may not satisfy your ego, but you can win 10 or 11 games a year and have a family life. Don't count on any of those things if you go to Cleveland.'

 

Different? Yes. Tougher? Not in the least. It's a different skillset, a different job. So different, in fact, that it would be downright silly to even attempt to argue that one is harder than the other. It's apples and oranges. What might be harder for one person could be easier for another. There's nothing about the NFL that makes it inherently more difficult to coach than college.

 

Again..I'm going to go ahead and trust with the articles I've read in countless sports magazines, the bios I've read, the interviews I've heard etc.

 

Here's some more stuff from Jimmy Johnson (since apparently you've never heard him say this kind of thing before):

 

Still, Johnson was surprised at how small the margin for error was once he was hired by the Cowboys. "You can be sloppy in college and still win," says Johnson, who made the transition better than anyone. "You can't in pro."

 

"It's a long season with no easy weeks," Johnson says. "It can wear on you, and it's hard to keep your guys up. In college, you point for certain weeks. In the pros, you have to be steady."

[PeterHilton]

Weis was still a coach in the NFL, I never said anything about Head Coaches. Brook was 91-109 at Oregon (success?) and yes he manged to turn Kentucky into a 5th best team in the SEC East

 

I was. That was my whole point.

 

And don't be snide Gatorbait. Taking Kentucky from where it was to three straight bowl games makes him a success. You know that's true.

[GatorBait19]

I was. That was my whole point.

 

And don't be snide Gatorbait. Taking Kentucky from where it was to three straight bowl games makes him a success. You know that's true.

 

I agree, But saying he was a success at Oregon I can't agree with

[PeterHilton]

How is it a joke? You end up playing continuous OT until there's a winner. In the NFL we get maybe a few good passes and a FG for the win - the losing team feels screwed because they may or may not have had an opportunity to score. In college everyone has a chance and the defense has to play harder than they have the entire game. When you start at the 25 yard line and have to score within the Red Zone - where defenses play their BEST - how is that a joke? Please elaborate.

 

It's a joke because you end up with teams going back and forth playing TD ping pong. It looks ridiculous.

 

The NFL OT isn't ideal..but I'd rather make some adustments on that then watch the college OT where teams are turning 21-21 ties into 120 point shoot-outs.

 

That's a pretty bold prediction about Carroll considering the season is months and months away. The division he's in is crap, he had a good draft, he's a defensive-minded coach, and he walked into the PERFECT SITUATION. If he's gone after three seasons I'd be surprised because the entire Seahawks staff would be gone as well... considering the franchise is practically starting fresh this year with a new GM and coaching staff.

 

I live in LA. He's not as great a coach as the national media portrays. He's not some defensive genius. Staffs get turned over in the NFL all the time.

 

And based on the history of college coaches in the NFL, it's really not that bold a prediction.

[GatorBait19]

So hold on, you went from the NFL is a harder to coach..... to it's harder to be a success

[PeterHilton]

I agree, But saying he was a success at Oregon I can't agree with

 

Based on what?

 

Oregon was a total loser when he got there. He took them to bowl games, won a Pac 10 title, and went to a Rose Bowl. This is pre-Nike money Oregon...the fact he did that much with that bad a program showed a lot.

 

And again...back to the initial point..YOU brought him up as an NFL guy who failed in college.

 

And I'm saying that he was a decent college coach who flamed out in the NFL (which he did) and then went back to college and succeeded (which you agreed to)

 

which proves my point.

[LoganRodzen]

It's a joke because you end up with teams going back and forth playing TD ping pong. It looks ridiculous.

 

The NFL OT isn't ideal..but I'd rather make some adustments on that then watch the college OT where teams are turning 21-21 ties into 120 point shoot-outs.

 

I live in LA. He's not as great a coach as the national media portrays. He's not some defensive genius. Staffs get turned over in the NFL all the time.

 

And based on the history of college coaches in the NFL, it's really not that bold a prediction.

 

Wait a second... so you don't like to see scoring in football, huh? You think college OT is a joke and you dislike it because more points are scored? I like seeing TDs and awesome offensive/defensive plays. College OT is one of the most exciting ways to end a tie. I've never seen a college OT that I didn't enjoy.

 

Any examples of college games turning into 120 point shootouts?

 

I didn't say he was a great coach or a defense genius. I just think your prediction is way out out in left field when we haven't even seen one game yet. Do I think they're going to the Super Bowl? No. Do I think they have a legitimate chance to be a contender in the NFC West? Yes, I do.

[PeterHilton]

So hold on, you went from the NFL is a harder to coach..... to it's harder to be a success

 

Are you high? I referenced what the article said. Christ, it's YOUR post. Read it.

 

It says that it's harder to coach and succeed in the NFL.