Product Help.

[Mr.Macho]

Hey,

 

Just creating a new promotion and to be honest trying to make it old school type wrestling, like the NWA?

 

Anyway I think I have just about the right product, only issue is.... the fans wont be keen on gimmicks? I want them to be! Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes... etc all had gimmicks.. any idea on what to change?

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/2s197qr.jpg

 

http://i41.tinypic.com/154vnmg.jpg

[The Masked Orange]

For an old-school promotion, pure and modern would be less. Pure is pure wrestling, no gimmicks, no angles, no flips, no dives, not too much brawling even, mostly just straight up technical wrestling. Modern is flips and dives and I suspect that the NWA didn't feature that too heavily. Tone those down to low and you should be fine.

 

Cult as well, I know it isn't right for the NWA but I son't know how to explain what it is.

[LoganRodzen]

I plugged what you did into TEW and this is what I came up with:

 

Just because it says "fans won't be keen on gimmicks" doesn't mean they won't like gimmicks. If you up Mainstream to heavy you will get the "fans expect all workers to be packaged with a proper gimmick". I understand why you have Pure up so high... you want it to be performance over popularity. Lower that to medium with the Mainstream change and it will still be based much more on performance.

[Irish Wolf]

Try this

 

Key - Traditional

Heavy - Mainstream

Medium - Realism

Low - Comedy and Pure

 

This is split even Performance and Popularity. If you want it performance based then put Pure up to medium

[Remianen]

Just because it says "fans won't be keen on gimmicks" doesn't mean they won't like gimmicks.

 

Actually it does. Try it. When you have that conflict ('fans expect workers to have gimmicks' and 'fans won't be keen on gimmicks') it basically prevents you from hitting gold on gimmick debuts. So most of your new gimmicks will rate 66 (which will get you dinged for having 'a poor gimmick'). It seems like the two kinda cancel each other.

 

I ran into this problem with my mod as the product I had in mind for QAW had that issue. It's not just Pure fans that don't like gimmicks. Realism fans don't like 'em either.

 

My questions for Mr. Macho are, why have all those elements in the product? NWA was never 'Cult' and I don't remember too much comedy either. In fact, they seemed to take themselves awfully serious, from what I recall. Are you talking today's NWA or the old school NWA with Flair, Race, and such? What exactly are you trying to accomplish or what goal do you have, besides gimmicks being acceptable?

[ampulator]

When Ric Flair was at his prime, along with Ricky Steamboat and Sting

 

Key Feature: Traditional

Heavy: Mainstream

Medium: Realism

Low: None

Very Low: Hardcore, Pure, Comedy

None: Lucha Libre, Modern, Hyper Realism, Cult, Daredevil

 

OR (when Ric Flair started)

 

Key Feature: Traditional

Heavy: Realism, Pure

Medium: Mainstream

Low: Hardcore

Very Low: None

None: Comedy, Lucha Libre, Modern, Hyper Realism, Cult, Daredevil

 

OR (When NWA started to modernize)

 

Key Feature: Mainstream

Heavy: Traditional

Medium: Realism

Low: None

Very Low: Pure

None: Comedy, Lucha Libre, Modern, Hyper Realism, Cult, Daredevil, Hardcore

 

As for "not being keen gimmicks", it depends on strong those particular settings are. If it's at Medium, I woudn't be too concerned.

 

As for Pure, it's debatable. If you are talking about Ric Flair's prime, then it's no longer featured that heavily. But if you are talking about when he started, before TV was important to wrestling, there was a lot more Pure wrestling. Just ask Jim Cornette. It took a long time before another promotion took on Pure Wrestling again (ROH).

[LoganRodzen]

Actually it does. Try it. When you have that conflict ('fans expect workers to have gimmicks' and 'fans won't be keen on gimmicks') it basically prevents you from hitting gold on gimmick debuts. So most of your new gimmicks will rate 66 (which will get you dinged for having 'a poor gimmick'). It seems like the two kinda cancel each other.

 

I ran into this problem with my mod as the product I had in mind for QAW had that issue. It's not just Pure fans that don't like gimmicks. Realism fans don't like 'em either.

 

I guess that's where my confusion came in. I've never done one without the other ('won't be keen' and 'expect workers to have gimmicks') so having them cancel each other out is where my "doesn't mean they won't like gimmicks" theory came in.

 

Besides affecting a workers morale I've never had a gimmick make or break a match or even interrupt my booking. When running below Cult I treated gimmicks as if they didn't matter because it seemed like whatever I did it never went above the 66 you mentioned. I suppose I know why now.

[ampulator]

How much realism were doing? If you look at TCW2008's product, it was:

 

Key Feature: Traditional

Heavy: Mainstream

Medium: Realism

 

I never recall Realism at that setting making a huge dent in the gimmick rating.

[Mr.Macho]

I am attempting to create like an old school territory like promotion, where their isn’t that much blood but when there is, it means something. I want it based on gimmicks, such as Flair/Dusty but also capable of getting people over that are unknown, but their performance, I don’t want it based on flips and flying, just pure wrestling or taunting wrestling [<like how Flair and Dusty Wrestle]. Not sure if you get me?

[Greg McNeish]

So, somewhere in between Mid Atlantic and Georgia, and nowhere near Memphis or Mid South.

 

Sorry, I just find it silly when people refer to an "NWA style", as if there weren't tremendous differences between the different territories. Heck, Jerry Jarrett pretty much ran an Attitude Era product, in the 80s.

[Mr.Macho]

Lol yeah, I have hardly any knowledge of them but I like what I saw a couple of years back with those guys and wanted to replicate that.

 

Don’t suppose you know anywhere I can watch any of the stuff your on about? I love watching old school wrestling.

[Greg McNeish]

I just head to YouTube, type in a name, and hope for the best. From there, I just follow the links on the right side, and am often surprised where I end up.

 

Happy hunting.

[Mr.Macho]

They all seem to say not keen on gimmicks, the help is appreciated guys.. I need a setting where I can actually have gimmicks!

[ampulator]

Look, dude, the NWA Flair-style is always going to get that. For one thing, they ALWAYS had an element that disliked gimmicks. Two, it's just A PORTION OF THE audience. This always happen because the style that Flair/Steamboat/Rhodes worked always had a notable bit (if not total) of Realism.

 

If you want anything NWA-like, you are going to have accept this reality. I already gave you one. Take it or leave it.

 

Key Feature: Traditional

Heavy: Mainstream

Medium: Realism

Low: None

Very Low: Hardcore, Pure, Comedy

None: Lucha Libre, Modern, Hyper Realism, Cult, Daredevil

 

Gimmicks are acceptable in this product, but some fans within this setting that won't like gimmicks, just like how the real product was in real life.

[Remianen]

Look, dude, the NWA Flair-style is always going to get that. For one thing, they ALWAYS had an element that disliked gimmicks. Two, it's just A PORTION OF THE audience. This always happen because the style that Flair/Steamboat/Rhodes worked always had a notable bit (if not total) of Realism.

 

If you want anything NWA-like, you are going to have accept this reality. I already gave you one. Take it or leave it.

 

Key Feature: Traditional

Heavy: Mainstream

Medium: Realism

Low: None

Very Low: Hardcore, Pure, Comedy

None: Lucha Libre, Modern, Hyper Realism, Cult, Daredevil

 

Gimmicks are acceptable in this product, but some fans within this setting that won't like gimmicks, just like how the real product was in real life.

 

I'd leave it.

 

Though his goals run a bit counter to reality, I'd say the best thing would be a concession to gameplay, which would be lowering Realism to Low. That would give probably the least negative feedback for gimmicks while still coming close to the real promotion. That would give gimmicks that could pop (though not as much as with no realism) but still keep things somewhat true.

 

Note: that's not a dig on you ampulator. The reason I asked the questions I did was because I wanted to try to find out WHAT MR. MACHO WANTED besides a nebulous 'old school' concept (since 'old school' is largely subjective). He wants an NWA style promotion where gimmicks can 'pop', so conceding gimmicks to focus on the NWA style isn't the intended direction, from what I read.

[Irish Wolf]

I've not had too big a problem with the "expects gimmicks" and "Not to keen on gimmicks" with evened out user stats 75% of my gimmick changes end up over C+ and with Creativity up 1 point that goes up to maybe 80%, with a good 20% of those being over B.

[ampulator]

Apu, that's the thing, though. C- to C+ gimmick ratings aren't THAT bad, and if the worker fits the gimmick and the gimmick isn't too difficult, the gimmick ratings may go up over time.

 

Note: that's not a dig on you ampulator. The reason I asked the questions I did was because I wanted to try to find out WHAT MR. MACHO WANTED besides a nebulous 'old school' concept (since 'old school' is largely subjective). He wants an NWA style promotion where gimmicks can 'pop', so conceding gimmicks to focus on the NWA style isn't the intended direction, from what I read.

 

Yeah I know... but he has instead, is really not the NWA anymore, or at least, not the NWA he THINKS he wants.