Official NBA Discussion Thread

[BurningHamster]

You mean as opposed to previous eras when ownership ran players like horses giving them a pathetic percentage of the money they generate and when they showed an inkling that they may be finished they either cut their pay or cut them?

 

I'd rather have a bunch of well paid money generating mercenaries than poorly paid glorified middle class athletes who generate tons of money that go directly into the owners pockets.

 

Loyalty and hometown pride in pro sports is dumb. The owners aren't loyal why should the players be loyal?

 

Not sure what you are referring to precisely since being Australian I am not up on the history of the business side of sports in other parts of the world. I just remember growing up and watching sports here, a decent number of the players represented their home town, were part of the community and there was something I liked about that as it felt like there was a reason to get behind a team as they were your home town guys. I understand the argument about owners not being loyal which is probably a fair call and something else I think is unfortunate.

 

In the NBA I almost wonder why teams still have geographical names since the city they play in really means very little. But that's okay because most of the players are pretty interchangable anyway.

[PeterHilton]

Ummmmm...because that's where the actual team is located and where the fanbase is...?

 

I find it hard to believe that the pro sports teams in Australia run that differently from the way pro sports teams run on the rest of the planet.

Honestly, you sound slightly ignorant (and naive) on the subject and it's hard to take your opinion all that seriously.

[Slagaholic]

It means something to the fans who essentially finance the teams. It means very little to the players and absolutely nothing to the owners.

[slack]

I hate to say it, but Cleveland screwed Cleveland when it came to LeBron. A lot of poor roster moves to try to get him help. The Thunder are building a solid young nucleus around Durant to keep him around. The Lakers brought in Gasol for Kobe (remember when he almost went to Chicago?). The Celtics traded a good young big man and a draft pick for KG and brought in Ray to come in with an unhappy Paul Pierce.

 

What did LeBron get? Jamison, Mo Williams, Ben Wallace, Drew Gooden, lost Boozer, Larry Hughes, Wally Szerbiak (or whatever). They traded for Shaq too late, (needed him against Orlando in 09). Bad coaching didn't help either.

 

LeBron knew if he was to win in Cleveland it was him alone. Maybe some past their prime star, but never a legit chance of having a great cast around him. Chris Paul is in the same boat.

 

Maybe it wouldn't have mattered. Maybe Lebron, Bosh, and Wade had their minds made up to all play on the same team. The truth is, this is just a job for these guys. They don't care about stuff that fans care about. It sucks.

[Slagaholic]

They don't care about the stuff the fans care about because if they did they would be doing themselves a grave disservice. Fans don't want what's best for the players they want what's best for their fandom, for athletes to cow tow to their silly ideas of what pro sports SHOULD be like, and their twisted memories of what pro sports WERE like years ago (when really they weren't like that at all).

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slagaholic" data-cite="Slagaholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It means something to the fans who essentially finance the teams. It means very little to the players and absolutely nothing to the owners.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Depends on the player, though i think on the majority you are correct.</p><p> </p><p> But certain guys (Kobe, Pierce, Duncan) clearly embrace the history of thier franchises and want to play out there careers there.</p><p> </p><p> Pierce, for instance took less money than he could have to resign with the C's for 4 years this summer to end his career here.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ummmmm...because that's where the actual team is located and where the fanbase is...?<p> </p><p> I find it hard to believe that the pro sports teams in Australia run that differently from the way pro sports teams run on the rest of the planet. </p><p> Honestly, you sound slightly ignorant (and naive) on the subject and it's hard to take your opinion all that seriously.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You don't have to take my opinion seriously but you can be a little less insulting, you heartless wench.</p><p> </p><p> Team locations in the NBA seem pretty interchangable to me and without players or owners being loyal to a team, what reason is there for fans to be loyal to a team in their hometown? Absolutely freaking none. Therefore the geographical locations are just a place to keep an arena and a front office, aside from season tickets the teams could probably make more money playing every game in China.</p><p> </p><p> When I was growing up in the late 80s, early 90s basketball in Australia was sort of semi-pro. Half of the players had day jobs etc and apart from the US imports I'd say half of the teams were made up of local guys and if you bumped into them on the street they would spare a few minutes to have a chat etc. When I look at the NBA, and indeed many major sports these days (including Australian football which is in many ways going in a similar direction to all other major sports) I see a bunch of overpaid sociopathic douchebags chasing money from town to town. I'm sure those guys have always existed in sports, but in major sports at the moment they have become the rule.</p><p> </p><p> That might be the best business model for players and clubs, pay the most money, bring in the best players they can but I definitely think something is lost by sports going in this direction.</p>

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You don't have to take my opinion seriously but you can be a little less insulting, you heartless wench.<p> </p><p> Team locations in the NBA seem pretty interchangable to me and without players or owners being loyal to a team, what reason is there for fans to be loyal to a team in their hometown? Absolutely freaking none. Therefore the geographical locations are just a place to keep an arena and a front office, aside from season tickets the teams could probably make more money playing every game in China.</p><p> </p><p> When I was growing up in the late 80s, early 90s basketball in Australia was sort of semi-pro. Half of the players had day jobs etc and apart from the US imports I'd say half of the teams were made up of local guys and if you bumped into them on the street they would spare a few minutes to have a chat etc. When I look at the NBA, and indeed many major sports these days (including Australian football which is in many ways going in a similar direction to all other major sports) I see a bunch of overpaid sociopathic douchebags chasing money from town to town. I'm sure those guys have always existed in sports, but in major sports at the moment they have become the rule.</p><p> </p><p> That might be the best business model for players and clubs, pay the most money, bring in the best players they can but I definitely think something is lost by sports going in this direction.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This has always been the way in American Sports. I could name you 500 different players starting in baseball in the 1920's on to present day that where either moved away from the team by an owner or traded or left via free agnecy and do you know what it always came down to? Money. In American sports you play the sport to get paid. </p><p> </p><p> Why do we work any job? To get paid, its a bonus if we like what we do and who we do it with but in reality we're all going to most of the time take as much money as we can for the right amount of work. If I can do the same job I'm doing today, working the same hours doing the same thing but make more money doing it somewhere else I'm going.</p><p> </p><p> Sports fans like to think that if they played pro sports they would play for league minimum to play in their "hometown". Thats the difference between an athlete and a fan. Its a bonus if you can get paid an absurd amount of money to play for your hometown team and win a championship but those situations are very rare unless your hometown team is the New York Yankees.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You don't have to take my opinion seriously but you can be a little less insulting, you heartless wench.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Honeslty this last post just proved my point. You're a little ignorant and a lot naive</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>When I was growing up in the late 80s, early 90s basketball in Australia was sort of semi-pro. Half of the players had day jobs etc and apart from the US imports I'd say half of the teams were made up of local guys and if you bumped into them on the street they would spare a few minutes to have a chat etc. When I look at the NBA, and indeed many major sports these days (including Australian football which is in many ways going in a similar direction to all other major sports) I see a bunch of overpaid sociopathic douchebags chasing money from town to town. I'm sure those guys have always existed in sports, but in major sports at the moment they have become the rule.<p> </p><p> That might be the best business model for players and clubs, pay the most money, bring in the best players they can but I definitely think something is lost by sports going in this direction.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That stuff you just described was major sports in the US...back in the 30s and 40s. I can't speak for Australia, but the rest of the world moved away from that model decades ago.</p><p> </p><p> And to me, the idea that the guys who are producing the ACTUAL PRODUCT</p><p> THAT FANS COME TO SEE (often times at large risk to their bodies and at great expense to their personal and physical well-being) have to hold down second jobs and work like your average slob while the team owners make millions and millions of dollars is criminally unfair and tantimount to slavery.</p><p> </p><p> Which is why it changed.</p><p> </p><p> Decades ago.</p><p> </p><p> Like I said..if what you REALLY want to see is local guys, playing for local clubs, with local pride on the line, and not making much else outside the thrill of victory, then go watch high school kids play sports.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Honeslty this last post just proved my point. You're a little ignorant and a lot naive</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> At least I am not a (insert numerous expletives, abnormal sexual orientations and outdated classifications for the mentally handicapped here). I can be ignorant and naive all I like, you can devote some of your spare time to watching ridiculously overpaid criminals, miscreants and pituitary freaks half-heartedly play a game children are capable of playing in a city they hate in front of people they hate for no apparent reason, because without some level of pride being on the line and outright hate for those who want to rob your guys of said pride all competition comes down to is a display of athletic prowess which is about as interesting as watching Roderick Strong wrestle Roderick Strong for 48 minutes 82 times a year only for both Roderick Strong's to switch sides next year anyway.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Like I said..if what you REALLY want to see is local guys, playing for local clubs, with local pride on the line, and not making much else outside the thrill of victory, then go watch high school kids play sports.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Don't think I will go and hang around watching high school kids getting sweaty thanks. I do like your argument that if guys aren't making 50 zillion dollars they are virtually slaves though. In fact, I would probably support the NBA more if all of the players were actual slaves and you would occasionally see the coach whipping them during time outs.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Don't think I will go and hang around watching high school kids getting sweaty thanks. I do like your argument that if guys aren't making 50 zillion dollars they are virtually slaves though. In fact, I would probably support the NBA more if all of the players were actual slaves and you would occasionally see the coach whipping them during time outs.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Again you sound incredibly ignorant about the history of American sports and pro sports in general. Because if you knew a little more, you'd probably realize that your last line sounded incredibly racist.</p><p> </p><p> Actually, it's so blatant it sounds like you might actually be making a racist remark on purpose.</p><p> </p><p> I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I don't think it's unfair to be well paid when you are the person that people are paying to see.Nobody pays to see the owners.</p><p> </p><p> Do you get this upset about how musicians or movie stars are paid? Because it's the same thing.</p>

[lazorbeak]

<p>BurningHamster, I agree PH was being rude, but you probably should just stop. You don't know much about the discussion and you're not presenting yourself in a positive light when you say things like this:</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In fact, I would probably support the NBA more if all of the players were actual slaves and you would occasionally see the coach whipping them during time outs.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I mean nobody likes being called ignorant or naive, but come on now, regarding American professional sports, something you don't follow in a country you don't live in, being ignorant is neither surprising nor a bad thing.</p><p> </p><p> A lot of what you said in paragraph 1 was just completely ridiculous. Nobody has said players all hate the cities they play in, nobody has said they are "half-hearted" (in fact they play at the level they do only after devoting years of effort to improving to the point where they are the best in the world), and PH's point is that the players should be getting a slice of the revenue being brought in. In baseball, as late as the 1970's, owners were making millions while running minor league teams that required players to work as indentured servants for a period of several years before coming into the majors, where even when your contract ended, a "reserve clause" meant there was a de facto agreement promising the player would re-sign. This went to court where it was found to be grossly illegal. The players are not and have never been the "bad guys" in any intelligent discussion of professional sports. The majority of professional athletes are putting their bodies and sometimes lives on the line in order to potentially make a team.</p><p> </p><p> I went to high school with a professional basketball player's son, and while he had physical gifts that separated him from 99.99% of people, he never made it pro. He received a scholarship to go to a second-rate university, then hurt his knee, and was never taken seriously as an NBA recruit. The last time I talked to him he was putting himself through physical therapy while substitute teaching, continuing to pursue a professional basketball career.</p><p> </p><p> Professional athletes, for better or worse, dedicate their lives to playing "children's games" because it's often their best opportunity to improve their lives, and it is ignorant and naive to call them a bunch of mean names because the majority of them like working for money.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Again you sound incredibly ignorant about the history of American sports and pro sports in general. Because if you knew a little more, you'd probably realize that your last line sounded incredibly racist.<p> </p><p> Actually, it's so blatant it sounds like you might actually be making a racist remark on purpose.</p><p> </p><p> I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I don't think it's unfair to be well paid when you are the person that people are paying to see.Nobody pays to see the owners.</p><p> </p><p> Do you get this upset about how musicians or movie stars are paid? Because it's the same thing.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You are the one who brought up slavery in regards to sportspeople and insinuated that making less than a zillion dollars is tantamount to slavery. But thanks for the labelling me a racist despite me at no point mentioning anyone of a particular race. </p><p> </p><p> And while my MAIN gripe isn't with the amount of money NBA players get I do feel musicians and actors are overpaid and overhyped. Actors in particular, in comparison to most people on a film set, are paid far more than their talent or amount of work is generally worth. Not to say that will stop me watching movies, but I tend to avoid the major blockbusters with big name talent because they are usually disappointing money making excercises that rarely live up to the hype. Much like the NBA.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>BurningHamster, I agree PH was being rude, but you probably should just stop. You don't know much about the discussion and you're not presenting yourself in a positive light when you say things like this:<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I feel like I should get a medal or something that actually got YOU to call someone rude. lol <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> But yes, that was the point I was making. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You are the one who brought up slavery in regards to sportspeople and insinuated that making less than a zillion dollars is tantamount to slavery. But thanks for the labelling me a racist despite me at no point mentioning anyone of a particular race. <p> </p><p> And while my MAIN gripe isn't with the amount of money NBA players get I do feel musicians and actors are overpaid and overhyped. Actors in particular, in comparison to most people on a film set, are paid far more than their talent or amount of work is generally worth. Not to say that will stop me watching movies, but I tend to avoid the major blockbusters with big name talent because they are usually disappointing money making excercises that rarely live up to the hype. Much like the NBA.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> a) you said that you'd prefer the NBA - a league made of mostly black males - would be more enjoyable if the players were whipped on the sideline like slaves.</p><p> </p><p> Whether you know it or not, that comment had racial overtones. And the fact you don't realize it again shows your lack of knowledge on the subject...especially in regards to black athletes in America</p><p> </p><p> b) Your comments on musicians and athletes ...ok, so you're just a bitter dude who doesn't want anyone to get paid? Because capitalism and the whole free market economy must be a giant pain for you..</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I feel like I should get a medal or something that actually got YOU to call someone rude. lol <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> But yes, that was the point I was making. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> a) you said that you'd prefer the NBA - a league made of mostly black males - would be more enjoyable if the players were whipped on the sideline like slaves.</p><p> </p><p> Whether you know it or not, that comment had racial overtones. And the fact you don't realize it again shows your lack of knowledge on the subject...especially in regards to black athletes in America</p><p> </p><p> b) Your comments on musicians and athletes ...ok, so you're just a bitter dude who doesn't want anyone to get paid? Because capitalism and the whole free market economy must be a giant pain for you..</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Do you really want an argument on racism on top of being rude? Do you really want to sully the Hilton name made famous by such greats as Paris to be associated with something like that?</p><p> </p><p> And no, I am not against capitalism or people getting paid, it's an improvement on starvation. I just prefer sports with more game, more hate, more rivalry and less hype, less overpaid primadonnas and I dunno, less fans like you. The NBA games I have caught recently after not watching any sport I wasn't paid to for years shocked me in how absolutely tedious they were. And this comes from a guy who used to have to film 6 hours straight of semi-pro rugby in a state that doesn't even give a crap about rugby.</p><p> </p><p> Oh and Lazorbeak, thanks for the history lesson on baseball, see stuff like that is kind of interesting to me if not just for an insight into the development of major sports but also in regards to how absolutely shoddy working conditions seem to have been in the US at various points. Either way, it's more interesting than being taken out of context, insulted, called racist etc.</p><p> </p><p> Btw did you ever think it was my intention to sound ridiculous in that first paragraph? I really do weep for those who think presenting logical arguments in discussions about sports is the right way to go through life.</p><p> </p><p> As for your friend, I know many people who are talented and still working regular jobs that one would think are beneath their abilities because those have yet to be fully recognized or there simply isn't enough room at the top of the mountain for everyone who is really good at something. That's life. Boo freakin hoo.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Do you really want an argument on racism on top of being rude? Do you really want to sully the Hilton name made famous by such greats as Paris to be associated with something like that?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you don't get how that comment could sound racist that's your problem, not mine.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As for your friend, I know many people who are talented and still working regular jobs that one would think are beneath their abilities because those have yet to be fully recognized or there simply isn't enough room at the top of the mountain for everyone who is really good at something. That's life. Boo freakin hoo.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You completely missed the point.</p><p> </p><p> Pro athletes have a finite amount of years to make as much money as they can before their bodies betray them. For every one guy who makes that crazy money that irritates you so badly, there are literally thousands who never make it and spend the rest of their lives with their bodies broken by the years they spent trying.</p><p> </p><p> it's a gamble. No one should feel bad for them. But at the same token no one should belie them the rewards when that gamble pays off.</p><p> </p><p> People pay big money to go watch sports. Or movies. Or listen to music. Why shouldn't the person who draws the fans be paid accordingly. because no one is going to a sporting event to watch the ground crew? or a movie to see the key grip's performance? or music to listen to the editing?</p><p> </p><p> People pay for stars.</p><p> </p><p> As for what kind of fan I am? I like winning. Most people do.</p><p> </p><p> Allen Iverson is playing in frickin Turkey this year...for $4 million..you think those fans are complaining because he's 'not local?' Maybe some. But most of them are thrilled to see a huge star play and give their team a better chance at winning. </p><p> </p><p> Which is -outside of the bitter minority - the way most people feel.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Allen Iverson is playing in frickin Turkey this year</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What have you got against Turkey? You racist.</p>

[PeterHilton]

That's cute...like I said, if you don't get how that "slaves getting whipped" comment could have racial/racist overtones, that's your deal...

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Btw did you ever think it was my intention to sound ridiculous in that first paragraph? I really do weep for those who think presenting logical arguments in discussions about sports is the right way to go through life.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> So you said a bunch of ridiculously over-the-top outrageous statements knowing how it made you look, and weep for people who use logic? Okaaaaay.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As for your friend, I know many people who are talented and still working regular jobs that one would think are beneath their abilities because those have yet to be fully recognized or there simply isn't enough room at the top of the mountain for everyone who is really good at something. That's life. Boo freakin hoo.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The point isn't "feel bad for my friend," the point is, he worked and worked and sacrificed his body and went to a crappy school in an attempt to get paid doing what he wants to do, and he's still not doing it. And there's thousands more just like him. The idea that the NBA just signs up the first 5 "sociopathic" "pituitary freaks" is insulting. They get paid what they're paid because they can do things that no one else can do, and people pay to see them do it. Peter's arguing that means maybe they ought to be accommodated for their efforts, and I agree with him. </p><p> </p><p> The average NBA career lasts about 3 seasons and maybe makes a million dollars in that time. And that's it: no retirement benefits, no gold watch, no guaranteed job in the franchise. Yes, the guys at the top make big money, but they make it because the market can support it and they're proven their value to other connoisseurs of children's games.</p><p> </p><p> Like I said, the players aren't the bad guys. If NBA owners couldn't afford to pay guys 100 million dollars, they wouldn't. No modern sports franchise has ever driven itself into bankruptcy paying player salaries. And players actually getting their fair share of profits (since they are the "draws" that people come to see), is a new and positive phenomenon.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's cute...like I said, if you don't get how that "slaves getting whipped" comment could have racial/racist overtones, that's your deal...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You brought up slaves, Pete. Not me. Then you went on to disparage the proud nation of Turkey. Plus I think it's a sad indictment of your nation's preoccupation with race that possible racial overtones of a comment are seen by you as more problematic than the violence and humiliation involved in publicly whipping anyone. Plus, you know, your whole inability to tell when someone is being facetious is pretty sad too, but I expect no better from a racist.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So you said a bunch of ridiculously over-the-top outrageous statements knowing how it made you look, and weep for people who use logic? Okaaaaay.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> While discussing the most logical thing in the world, a multi-billion dollar industry based on abnormally tall people throwing a sphere through a slightly larger hoop. Also you put too many a's in the word okay.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> The point isn't "feel bad for my friend," the point is, he worked and worked and sacrificed his body and went to a crappy school in an attempt to get paid doing what he wants to do, and he's still not doing it. And there's thousands more just like him. The idea that the NBA just signs up the first 5 "sociopathic" "pituitary freaks" is insulting. They get paid what they're paid because they can do things that no one else can do, and people pay to see them do it. Peter's arguing that means maybe they ought to be accommodated for their efforts, and I agree with him. </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The world is full of talented people making sacrifices in the hopes of earning a living doing what they love, most don't make a million dollars in 3 years. Also most are about as entertaining as a low level NBA player. I never said they signed the first five, don't put words in my mouth.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You brought up slaves, Pete. Not me. Then you went on to disparage the proud nation of Turkey. Plus I think it's a sad indictment of your nation's preoccupation with race that possible racial overtones of a comment are seen by you as more problematic than the violence and humiliation involved in publicly whipping anyone. Plus, you know, your whole inability to tell when someone is being facetious is pretty sad too, but I expect no better from a racist.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have no idea what you're talking about. </p><p> </p><p> Bringing up slavery and whipping when in connection to a discussion about a league where the athletes are mostly black has racial overtones. And yes it is more specific to America because of our history but it's there. </p><p> </p><p> Sorry for the misunderstanding your highness but considering your irrational tirade against NBA players and the way you talked about professional athletes for the last few pages, where was i supposed to know where your anger ended and your reasonable arguments began? I guess in Australia it's ok to bring up whipping athletes like slaves and everyone's cool with that.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>While discussing the most logical thing in the world, a multi-billion dollar industry based on abnormally tall people throwing a sphere through a slightly larger hoop. Also you put too many a's in the word okay.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Supply and demand.</p><p> </p><p> If people out there are willing to spend the money to buy the tickets then yes, it's totally logical. Because those athletes are getting what the owners can afford which means for every player making 5 millions dollars then there's an owner somewhere making 100 times that.</p><p> </p><p> Again..it's like you have a problem with the entire notion of professional sports. Its not like those contracts are getting handed out willy-nilly with no justification.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have no idea what you're talking about. <p> </p><p> Bringing up slavery and whipping when in connection to a discussion about a league where the athletes are mostly black has racial overtones. And yes it is more specific to America because of our history but it's there. </p><p> </p><p> Sorry for the misunderstanding your highness but considering your irrational tirade against NBA players and the way you talked about professional athletes for the last few pages, where was i supposed to know where your anger ended and your reasonable arguments began? I guess in Australia it's ok to bring up whipping athletes like slaves and everyone's cool with that.</p></div></blockquote><p> In Australia athletes are photographed simulating sex acts with dogs and digitally penetrate opponents anal cavities (I wish I was making that up) so whatever we talk about doing to them is minor in comparison to what they are already doing.</p>

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sorry for the misunderstanding your highness <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's okay my loyal subject, but really you should be more sorry for coming off as bit of a knob initially when I was merely voicing a minority opinion that I honestly believe in. I mean, it's bad enough the whole world is more accommodating to your wants than mine without being insulted on top of that.</p>