Official NBA Discussion Thread

[ShaunGBD]

I love the rumor that the Heat player were partying with Dallas players. lol, Made my year.

[BloodyKnuckles]

Really? Archie flat out told SD that Eli wouldn't play for them if they drafted him. I could see him telling Peyton to stay the extra year.

 

As a SD fan, I remember that all too well, but I don't remember Archie saying it? I thought that was all Eli not wanting to play in SD, but I could be wrong, I have a poor memory with stuff like this.

[ShaunGBD]

As a SD fan, I remember that all too well, but I don't remember Archie saying it? I thought that was all Eli not wanting to play in SD, but I could be wrong, I have a poor memory with stuff like this.

 

Archie said it was all Eli, and I believe it. Some people believe it was Archie.

[GatorBait19]

So with the main thought coming into the CBA agreement is that there will pretty much be a hard cap (at least that is what the owners want) it makes you wonder if teams are allowed to toss out one contract each, then which players could be unemployed.

 

Here is my personal list

 

Atlanta Hawks: Joe Johnson is there worst contract at 20 million per (if I did the math right) but he is also one of their better players. With the emergence of Collins I could honestly see it being Zaza

 

Predict: Zaza

 

Boston Celtics: Make your pick here...... it's kind of hard. The big 4 aren't going anywhere and Big Baby is an affordable contract. Shaq is gone so it honestly a make a pick. They could go to KG and say take a paycut for us to retool and give us a couple more chances to get you more rings.

 

Predict: KG if it was a cut and resign.

 

Bulls: Boozer is their worst contract mainly because of his injuries. The bulls are pretty set when it comes to contracts, but Rose is getting close to being a RFA

 

Predict: Kyle K.

 

Cavs: Davis, Davis, Davis, and Andrew V. Through up a coin and make a pick. Jamison and Davis are in the last years of those crappy contracts, but V is still 3 or 4 years away

 

Predict: Verajo, lets face it the Cavs aren't going to win in the next two years and Irving and Thompson have 4 years still RFA so V's contract is more important to get rid of.

 

Mavs: Like the Cavs there is one big name that stands out

 

Predict: Haywood

 

Nuggets: Another easy one for a young team

 

Predict: Harrington

 

Pistons: Hmmmm, this one is hard. You still have Richard Hamilton, Ben Gordon, and Charlie V. Hamilton is the worst contract of the three, but I believe he might be more important overall then the other two. The fact that Hamilton played less then them and outperformed them should scare the other two

 

Predict: Ben Gordon. Charlie played 5 less minutes a game and still avg about the same stat line

 

Warriors: get rid of the one contract you really need to get rid of

 

Predict: Vladimir Radmanovic

 

Rockets: I really don't know who the Rockets should cut here...

 

Predict: Can't really go wrong.

 

Pacers: Sorry James, you are their worst contract

 

Predict: James Posey

 

Clippers: This one is between two players, Mo Williams and Kaman for two reasons. Their replaces might already be on the team. DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledose might be their next PG and Center so either one could be gone. Kaman has more trade value and could bring a SF to help them where Mo I believe is on his last leg.

 

Predict: Mo Williams

 

Lakers: A lot of people would agree to let Luke Walton go, but would the Lakers try and pull and Celtics and ask Kobe to take a pay cut help rebuild the team. It could be an easy pitch because Kobe wants more than MJ and he is one away from tying him and 2 from breaking it. He also is in LA and championships bring more endorsements

 

Predict: Kobe if they could do a KG type thing I mentioned above. If not Luke because everyone else can be traded

 

Grizz: This is hard because most of their guys are young

 

Predict: You tell me?

 

Heat: Mike Miller????? Joel Anthony?????

 

Predict: Anyone signed for longer than a year outside of the big three has a pink slip they should worry might be theirs

 

Bucks: With Larry Sanders coming into his second year and looking to push for more time. Drew Gooden by far is their worst contract

 

Predict: Drew Gooden

 

Wolves: That center Nikola. Darko had a better year

 

Predict: Nikola

 

Nets: Travis Outlaw

 

Predict: Travis Outlaw

 

Hornets: I think this one is kind of easy

 

Predict: Okafor

 

Knicks: With Billups contract up at the end of this coming year Turiaf is the worst on the team

 

Knicks: Turiaf

 

Thunder: COLLISON!!!

 

Predict: Collison

 

Magic: Everyone might go.... Gilbert, but I say Hedo. Gilbert if he got more involved in the offense could find something again and Hedo's contract runs longer. Dwight Howard likes Gilbert more than Hedo and also trading Howard could mean a team might have to take Gilbert's contract as well. If the cut date isn't instantly the Magic could trade Gilbert with Howard and let the other team do the cute. Then what if the Magic trade Howard and he came back when he hit free agency

 

Predict: Hedo, but Gilbert could go as well

 

76ers: Elton Brand, he isn't the player he use to be

 

Predict: Brand

 

Suns: Josh Childress

 

Blazers: Roy has a heavy contract, but Camby has slipped a lot

 

Predict: Camby

 

Kings: Garica

 

Spurs: Again another Kobe/KG area for Duncan. If not then it's Bonner or Jefferson. Maybe McDyess

 

Raptors: Reggie Evans

 

Jazz: Okur back up center making almost 10 mil

 

Predict: Okur

 

Wiz: Probably the easiest one.

 

Predict : R. Lewis

[PoisonedSuperman]

Yeah but if they get rid of those big contracts they still have that money. Would you pay someone millions of dollars over x amount of years to NOT play for your team? That seems kind of foolish.

 

But the thing I do see with the hard cap is how exactly do they set it? I mean there are teams already over the cap, do they have to go as high as the highest team? I mean Kobe makes 27.something million dollars. How exactly would you put a team around someone taking up half your cap space?

[GatorBait19]

Yeah but if they get rid of those big contracts they still have that money. Would you pay someone millions of dollars over x amount of years to NOT play for your team? That seems kind of foolish.

 

But the thing I do see with the hard cap is how exactly do they set it? I mean there are teams already over the cap, do they have to go as high as the highest team? I mean Kobe makes 27.something million dollars. How exactly would you put a team around someone taking up half your cap space?

 

Yes you would still have to pay the players their contract, but they wouldn't count against the cap anymore.

 

It would be about a three year period where teams could get under the cap. Then after that they wouldn't be allowed to go over it. It isn't set, but this is what the owners want and there is a better chance of a lockout in the NBA than the NFL and the owners are truly united it seems so far.

[ShaunGBD]

It would be about a three year period where teams could get under the cap. Then after that they wouldn't be allowed to go over it. It isn't set, but this is what the owners want and there is a better chance of a lockout in the NBA than the NFL and the owners are truly united it seems so far.

 

Here the thing, the small teams in the NFL are still making money teams in the NBA aren't. The small teams are getting hit bad in the NBA. I think when it comes down to talking with the small teams about the CBA their gonna have to come with a system that helps both big and small teams.

[PoisonedSuperman]

It would be about a three year period where teams could get under the cap. Then after that they wouldn't be allowed to go over it. It isn't set, but this is what the owners want and there is a better chance of a lockout in the NBA than the NFL and the owners are truly united it seems so far.

 

Got ya! I had no clue at all how they were going to just institude a hard cap out of the blue but that does make sense.

[GatorBait19]

Here the thing, the small teams in the NFL are still making money teams in the NBA aren't. The small teams are getting hit bad in the NBA. I think when it comes down to talking with the small teams about the CBA their gonna have to come with a system that helps both big and small teams.

 

Which is why a hard cap would be okay with big market teams. With a hard cap it means teams have to spend wiser. With a hard cap of say 50 mil. that is a cut down of like 12 mil from this years cap. The fact that you cant go over it, means no more luxury taxes. So look at the Orlando Magic, one of the top payrolls in the league and were probably 14 mill over the cap. That means they paid 28 million more then a team under that cap, because you take the 14 mil they were over then add the other 14 mil (because of dollar for dollar)

 

Bucks borrowed 55 million from the league this year. I don't know how accurate those numbers are, but if it's true they are one of those teams who were over the cap. Lazor said it last year about how teams need to be smarter with their money and it's true, but I still believe a cap will help handicap those dumb teams who spend way to much and need to borrow money.

[ShaunGBD]

I want a hard cap more then anything in the NBA CBA. 100% I agree it works for everyone. Get it done

[GatorBait19]

I want a hard cap more then anything in the NBA CBA. 100% I agree it works for everyone. Get it done

 

It's gonna be difficult to get this CBA done. This isn't football where players play 3 years of college then do NFL and in between complete three years of college. Most players are one and done in the NBA so if a lockout takes away from paychecks there isn't much these players can do. For some they will look overseas for work and others like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Howard, Durant can live off of endorsements.

 

I think though this CBA is key for certain players and teams like Boston, Lakers, If there is a lockout Lakers and Boston could lose there chance for their title hopes with their current rosters. Basketball isn't football at all and players are going to have to be a little more careful in how they are looked at by the public. The Lakers, Magic, Mavs spent more money in payroll this year then some football teams and football teams employ 54 players a squad compared to 12 to 15 in basketball.

[PoisonedSuperman]

I fail to the incentive for the PLAYERS to sign off on a hardcap... is that basically giving money to the owners? What do they get out of it?

[GatorBait19]

I read an article that pretty much said the players are vaults right now, just trying to keep their stuff they have now locked up.

 

I think it's going to be hard for the players to keep the cap the way it is right now. Owners are hell bent on it and again this isn't the NFL where everyone would lose money if no games are played. NFL makes more in preseason probably than the NBA does by the All-Star break.

[GatorBait19]

I was surprised to see the Blazers tender Oden the 8.8 mil. offer.

[Craig Edwards]

3 and a half hours into the lockout now and a lot of people are saying there is a high chance that there wont be an NBA season this year

[Craig Edwards]

I was surprised to see the Blazers tender Oden the 8.8 mil. offer.

 

they did that so someone wont sign him to a min contract like Miami as people were saying that would be a great place for him to go to

[ShaunGBD]

3 and a half hours into the lockout now and a lot of people are saying there is a high chance that there wont be an NBA season this year

 

Honestly I think their will be something maybe a half or something like that.

[Capelli King]

Crap, lockout

[ShaunGBD]

Crap, lockout

 

knew it was coming, no shock.

[GatorBait19]

they did that so someone wont sign him to a min contract like Miami as people were saying that would be a great place for him to go to

 

That does make sense. It's just gonna suck if no one signs hims though.

[BHK1978]

I just want to thank the Golden State Warriors for hiring Mark Jackson as their head coach. Now I will not have to listen to his awful commentary anymore.

 

Who am I kidding he is taken over the Warriors, if there is a season this year, he will be back in the booth by the time the playoffs happen.

[GatorBait19]

Day 102 and we have canceled games.

 

I have a couple of questions to ask

 

1) When does the lockout end?

 

2) How does this lockout compare to the 98 one

 

3) How does this one effect the fan base/popularity of the game

 

4) Who budges first. Let's face it, this isn't the NFL where we knew no games would be canceled

 

5) How do you feel about this, do u still like/love the game?

 

 

I remember the stories about baseballs strike and how it almost killed the league. This is the second time in 15 years that the NBA has canceled games. I really don't see the lockout ending this year because of the fact that the owners might not be completely united on all items, but are united with the goal of making this a thriving business.

 

I would be shocked if this one didn't hurt the popularity of this game for the simple fact of how the economy has been. I also believe that the players do budge with the deal. In the NFL there are a bunch of players who make under 3 million a year, but in NBA the avg salary I believe is around 5 million. The Lakers have a bigger payroll then some NFL teams

 

The players r also not set like NFL, NFL players have at least a 2 year degree and are only one year away from graduating. They could have sat out for a year and gone back and finished their degree, most NBA players roughly only have one year in college.

 

This lockout is horrible for the players (not mega ones like Kobe, Lebron) but the little guys are going to struggle with this.

[lazorbeak]

Love the game, dislike the owners, don't care for Stern's behavior during this round of negotiations. Nobody put a gun to Portland's head and made them sign a 22 year old Darius Miles to a guaranteed 18 million dollar a year contract. OKC, San Antonio, and other small markets have flourished within the current cap structure, while the Lakers and others can bite the bullet and pay the luxury tax to put a bunch of all stars on the court. At the end of the day it comes down to the owners wanting to guarantee profits while not taking any risks, at the expense of deals that they made themselves. As mentioned, we're less than 15 years from the last owner tantrum, which resulted in a bunch of pro-owner decisions that should have made things easier. But when a team like Indiana is paying mid-level money to Jeff Foster, and all-star/#2 scoring option money to TJ Ford and Mike Dunleavy, they have no one to blame but themselves when they can't turn a profit. I mean yeah, ignorant people always bust out the "players make too much!" but very rarely are they ones directly responsible for their paydays. Should Carlos Boozer turn down 6 million a year because he realizes he's not a genuine star the way Rose is?

 

From Rashard Lewis:

 

"When it comes to contracts, the players aren’t sitting there negotiating that contract. I’m sitting at home and my agent calls me, saying, ‘I got a max on the table.’ I’m not going to sit there and say, ‘Naw, that’s too much. Go out there and negotiate $20 or $30 [million] less."

[GatorBait19]

Love the game, dislike the owners, don't care for Stern's behavior during this round of negotiations. Nobody put a gun to Portland's head and made them sign a 22 year old Darius Miles to a guaranteed 18 million dollar a year contract. OKC, San Antonio, and other small markets have flourished within the current cap structure, while the Lakers and others can bite the bullet and pay the luxury tax to put a bunch of all stars on the court. At the end of the day it comes down to the owners wanting to guarantee profits while not taking any risks, at the expense of deals that they made themselves. As mentioned, we're less than 15 years from the last owner tantrum, which resulted in a bunch of pro-owner decisions that should have made things easier. But when a team like Indiana is paying mid-level money to Jeff Foster, and all-star/#2 scoring option money to TJ Ford and Mike Dunleavy, they have no one to blame but themselves when they can't turn a profit. I mean yeah, ignorant people always bust out the "players make too much!" but very rarely are they ones directly responsible for their paydays. Should Carlos Boozer turn down 6 million a year because he realizes he's not a genuine star the way Rose is?

 

From Rashard Lewis:

 

"When it comes to contracts, the players aren’t sitting there negotiating that contract. I’m sitting at home and my agent calls me, saying, ‘I got a max on the table.’ I’m not going to sit there and say, ‘Naw, that’s too much. Go out there and negotiate $20 or $30 [million] less."

 

We use to argue about this but I agree with this to the tee.

 

It's not the players fault that they get the absurd contracts. Lewis was a one time all-star and coming off of back to back 20 point seasons on okay teams. The owners don't need a hard cap or any of that, they just need to look at their GM's and say..... really, is he really worth that? Can we pull a Tampa Bay Rays/Oakland A's type deal and find valuable pieces to keep me under the cap?

 

SA and OKC I don't believe are under the cap, but they make smart choices with how to spend their cap.

[bookerman]

I'd place blame this way:

 

60% owners - can't stop themselves from spending good money on bad players - see the Lewis example above, too many teams

 

30% players - sign a big deal and mail it in until the final year

 

10% agents - undermining the union/negotiation process

 

The system needs to be fixed, but the owners appear to have dug in their heels and feel fine with missing games/season. The players won't feel it until the checks stop coming in. Then you get to the superstars who potentially have money deferred in their deals so they still get paid.

 

They aren't as bad off as the NHL was (and with the changed financials, that league is growing again and seems stable) nor are they as wise as the NFL where they would be killing the golden goose to miss games.

 

Bill Simmons had some reasonable ideas on what to do: 4 year max deals, hard cap in place, as well as some other concessions to get things in line for both sides.