Imarevenant Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Fair enough. But in either case that was not a team that was where it needed to be at mentally to compete with that Boston team. Oh I don't doubt that at all. That team wasn't up to the task chemistry wise to compete with any decent team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Actually West did not make that move it was the current GM Chris Wallace. You are right about that, but West still remained with the Griz for the rest of that season. He and Chris worked on that deal together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 In other news, Kyle Korver decided to follow teammate Carlos Boozer and join the Bulls as well. Three year deal, 15 million says the source. http://www.nba.com/2010/news/07/09/korver.bulls.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2 Love this guy, great shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I just had to post this, taking Bill Simmons' analogy up to eleven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoxi37vvviQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 In other news, Kyle Korver decided to follow teammate Carlos Boozer and join the Bulls as well. Three year deal, 15 million says the source. http://www.nba.com/2010/news/07/09/korver.bulls.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2 Love this guy, great shooter. He earned that money can't lie. He is a pure shooter who shots extremely well from the charity stirke. He might end up being their 2 and if he continues to shot 43% from the field and 41% from outside then he'll fit a need they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5368129 Black did you or someone else call this lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genadi Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Lebron is a good player but not all that he is hyped out to be, I mean the media keeps saying he's a future legend and blah blah blah. I'm still waiting for him to come through in the play off and before this guy even is in the szme breath a Jordan win three titles and if he done win one with Mami he dont have his little excuse of not having a team around him. I don't understand this line of thinking, I don't know one player who won any championships without having a great team around him. Maybe Olajuwan when Rockets won their first title is prob the closest I can think of, but mind you that bench went deep and constantly delivered. Jordan had close to the second best player in the league by his side and for their first run Horace Grant and second Rodman, both beasts on d and on the boards back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I don't understand this line of thinking, I don't know one player who won any championships without having a great team around him. Maybe Olajuwan when Rockets won their first title is prob the closest I can think of, but mind you that bench went deep and constantly delivered. Jordan had close to the second best player in the league by his side and for their first run Horace Grant and second Rodman, both beasts on d and on the boards back then. 1979 Supersonics were not all that great if you take a look at that team. Besides DJ none of the other players really stand out as being great. And even DJ was not a true great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Jordan is the greatest winner of all time. The guy would will his team to victory when they needed him to. The closest thing in the NBA to MJ right now is Kobe Bryant. Lebron hides behind excuses. Lebron is a great player but hes not the winner or competitor of the all time great players that refused to lose. Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Kobe Bryant to name a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Jordan is the greatest winner of all time. The guy would will his team to victory when they needed him to. The closest thing in the NBA to MJ right now is Kobe Bryant. Lebron hides behind excuses. Lebron is a great player but hes not the winner or competitor of the all time great players that refused to lose. Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Kobe Bryant to name a few Not to start yet another argument on here because that is not what I am trying to do. But what about Bill Russell? 11 Championships says that he is the greatest winner of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 I have a good question. How good could Tyreke Evans really be? I thought last year coming into the league he was being undervalued by people, but he came out to win ROY. He is one of four players to avg 20/5/5 as a rookie. The other three, Jordan, Oscar Robertson, and Lebron. I know he played on a crap team so his stats might have been bloated, but Lebron and Jordan weren't going to a championship contender themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TribeWarpath Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Do you think future free agents want to come to a team where the owner so publicly acts like a child? Let the fans and the media crucify James all they want, that goes with the territory, but the owner of the team or anyone in the front office doing it makes your team look low class. It's the type of bush league BS I watched Matt Millen do over and over with Detroit, and trust me it didn't help matters at all. You are in Cleveland it's already an uphill battle attracting top flight free agents, (just ask Lebron and his failed attempts at pleading to get Bosh to go there instead of Miami). Why compound on this by reacting this way? I see no benefit in this whatsoever. He could have easily talked up Byron Scott and the future of the team sans Lebron without resorting to the grade school name calling. As a Cavs fan on Thursday night I was completely crushed by LeBron's decision. I agree Gilbert never should have wrote/said what he did (for the simple fact that this will have negative effects on the Cavs in the future), but nearly everyone in Cleveland was glad to hear our owner stick up for us. We felt betrayed. I can understand LeBron wanting to leave, but the way he did it was totally unprofessional and a complete load of bs. Plus ESPN and other sports media constantly treat Cleveland as a joke with their constant showing of our misfortunes in sports. The montage is shown not only when times are bad like last night, but nearly every playoff round since LeBron joined the Cavs even when we would be leading a series they would pull that damn montage on us. I agree with the statement about having trouble attracting free agents, but LeBron did nothing to help this. When he signed his three year extension the Cavs were put in a tough spot because no free agents wanted to come if LeBron wasn't committed to being in Cleveland. Look at Ariza last offseason, he came out and said the reason he didn't sign in Cleveland was because LeBron wouldn't tell him he was planning on staying. As for the recruiting of Bosh, I guarantee that was smoke and mirrors from Bron's "team" to try and make it seem he was staying in Cleveland. I have no doubt Bosh, Wade, & LeBron had this all planned from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Not to start yet another argument on here because that is not what I am trying to do. But what about Bill Russell? 11 Championships says that he is the greatest winner of all time. I know little to nothing about Russell so its hard for me to say how he performed in the clutch. I mean he obviously was a winner but he was also surrounded with more talent than MJ compared to when MJ played. MJ won a championship his last 6 full years with the Bulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I know little to nothing about Russell so its hard for me to say how he performed in the clutch. I mean he obviously was a winner but he was also surrounded with more talent than MJ compared to when MJ played. MJ won a championship his last 6 full years with the Bulls. Fair enough, you are right about him having more talent than Jordan. In fact even the sixth men on those teams made it into the Hall of Fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TribeWarpath Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 But still, if he's such a horrible person, why did you want to sign him? Could you imagine the backlash Gilbert would have gotten from Cleveland fans (his customers) if once the season ended he came out and said LeBron is not someone we want in our organization? Fans would have boycotted the team if he didn't make an effort to resign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 I know little to nothing about Russell so its hard for me to say how he performed in the clutch. I mean he obviously was a winner but he was also surrounded with more talent than MJ compared to when MJ played. MJ won a championship his last 6 full years with the Bulls. BHK you know me and how much I believe Russell was one of the best all-time, but in this case I have to agree with JB. Russell had talent surrounding him that even Shaq at 50 could win with. Jordan was just special. That's why people want to live up to his level. Next year if Kobe wins his 6th he might go, "I caught Jordan, now it's time for Russell ". Jordan is a bigger legend because he was able to win during the free agent period. Now it helped that Scottie Pippen was so terrified of being poor that he signed a long term deal that was made him vastly underpaid. Now in the fact though JB, Jordan did play around with some top talent in Chicago. Rodman, Pippen, Grant, Kerr weren't scrubs. You could also make the arguement that Pippen was the best 3 in the game at the time. All in all this is a tough arguement to take any side on. They were both extremely competitive players, but I'd have to give the edge to Jordan for the sheer fact that he hit huge shots and did it during the free agency era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Freaky how the big three numbers go up by 2 then 3. Bosh #1, Wade #3, and Lebron #6 So they sign 6 year deals with each giving up 15 million apiece. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5368003 After watching that video, this could get interesting. I really want to see how these three players work together for 82 to 100 games a year. Who takes the winning shot? what happens when someone sees their numbers going down? Will people bite their tongues for 6 years? They played well for the Olympics, but that was exbitions and going for gold. They weren't there to rack up 30 points apiece. Now this is real, so I guess we will see how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 BHK you know me and how much I believe Russell was one of the best all-time, but in this case I have to agree with JB. Russell had talent surrounding him that even Shaq at 50 could win with. Well yeah hench the post where I said he was right. Like I said those Celtic teams were so stacked with talent that two of (I believe it was two but do not quote me) their 6th men made it into the Hall of Fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Well yeah hench the post where I said he was right. Like I said those Celtic teams were so stacked with talent that two (I believe it was two but do not quote me) their 6th men made it into the Hall of Fame. Yeah, I saw that. I was already posting when you posted it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 So, supposedly Shaq and Spurs are heating up. My thing is Shaq wants to win more titles then Kobe. It's the reason he hasn't talked to the Lakers. So why the Spurs? He could go to the Heat and pound out three more and retire with 7!!!!! Kobe would need to win 2 more just to tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genadi Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Jordan is the greatest winner of all time. The guy would will his team to victory when they needed him to. The closest thing in the NBA to MJ right now is Kobe Bryant. I agree with that but that's another discussion. Jordan at 25 years old hadn't won a ring and the Bulls had lost to the Pistions 3 years in a row in the Playoffs if my memories working. It's funny because it was the addition of Phil Jackson and a few others like BJ Armstrong that pushed that team into the status it now holds. Jordan was the best I've ever seen I agree but basketball is far from a one player game, Kobe has proved that in both good and bad situations. Obviously that kind of change wasn't coming to the Cavs and Lebron wanted out, he's still very young. Lebron hides behind excuses. Lebron is a great player but hes not the winner or competitor of the all time great players that refused to lose. Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Kobe Bryant to name a few I still think it's too early to call, in 2 or 3 years yes but not yet. He could very easily end up with more rings then most of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 I agree with that but that's another discussion. Jordan at 25 years old hadn't won a ring and the Bulls had lost to the Pistions 3 years in a row in the Playoffs if my memories working. It's funny because it was the addition of Phil Jackson and a few others like BJ Armstrong that pushed that team into the status it now holds. Jordan was the best I've ever seen I agree but basketball is far from a one player game, Kobe has proved that in both good and bad situations. Obviously that kind of change wasn't coming to the Cavs and Lebron wanted out, he's still very young. I still think it's too early to call, in 2 or 3 years yes but not yet. He could very easily end up with more rings then most of those guys. This is true, but those five guys also have one thing that will set them apart from Lebron. They did it with one team. Lebron could now win 4 to 5 titles, but to me it would be hard to put him ahead of any of thoses guys because they stuck through the good and bad times of their teams. I don't fault Lebron for wanting rings, it is what seprates players from talented to one of a kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHilton Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 This is true, but those five guys also have one thing that will set them apart from Lebron. They did it with one team. Lebron could now win 4 to 5 titles, but to me it would be hard to put him ahead of any of thoses guys because they stuck through the good and bad times of their teams. I think the 'one team' things is incredibly outdated and unrealistic. I mean..for every legendary player that stayed with one team their whole career, you can name just as many that moved around. Does Kareem's or Wilt's legacy suffer because they changed teams during their career? I think the part of this that will affect Lebron down the road is that any titles he might get with the Heat will be 'tainted' because he's not THE GUY on the team, in the same way that Kobe heard how the three titles with Shaq didn't really count as much because he was the #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I think the 'one team' things is incredibly outdated and unrealistic. I mean..for every legendary player that stayed with one team their whole career, you can name just as many that moved around. Does Kareem's or Wilt's legacy suffer because they changed teams during their career? I think the part of this that will affect Lebron down the road is that any titles he might get with the Heat will be 'tainted' because he's not THE GUY on the team, in the same way that Kobe heard how the three titles with Shaq didn't really count as much because he was the #2. It's only a legitimate beef if someone's making the argument that LeBron is the greatest ever: it's just a feature of sports today that guys don't spend their whole careers in one place, even if they're elite. It makes the Jordan's and the Bird's more special, but it's unrealistic to hold everyone to their level. Shaq, Garnett, Drexler, Gasol, and dozens of other hall of famers and future hall of famers never won a title on the team they were drafted to. Personally I don't get the idea that championships LeBron may win have an asterisk: winning a championship is hard, even for very good teams, and the Heat don't even have a full roster yet. It's a little early to count out all the elite teams that aren't in Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I still think it's too early to call, in 2 or 3 years yes but not yet. He could very easily end up with more rings then most of those guys. I agree that it is too early to say Lebron cant find a way to will his teams to win. He pretty much did it in the Detroit series a couple of years ago. It is just that he doesnt seem to be able to up his level and will on a consistent basis. This may just be me being extremely rough on a 25 year old but IMO he is the most talented player to ever step on the court. It just bothers me that he was unable to win a championship with Cleveland and is now heading a different direction. Lebron is a once in a lifetime talent and I just wish he would show it in a different way. Players should be coming to play with him not the other way around. I'm disappointed because he could have been an icon. I think that has now passed him by with this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.